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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 2, 2019 18:43:24 GMT
Something that has been bothering me the last few days is the existence of the Crossroads. We have seen that it is a place between worlds, not entirely in the Fade but closer to it than the material world is. So what was the relationship with the material world and the Fade before the Veil existed? Why was it necessary when there was no barrier between the two?
Having an alternate dimensional roadway seems understandable if you want to cut down travel time, except why have all these paths at all? Surely it would have been simpler to have just one central gathering point with eluvians leading to and from it in order to connect you with where you wish to go? It is clear the Crossroads consists of more than just pathways, the Vir Dirthara being an example of a structure created in the same dimension. So why did they do this?
In Masked Empire the pathways link to tombs of the dead. Why was that? The tombs are not in the Crossroads network as Imshael says you can find the tombs if you dig deep enough anywhere across Orlais. Why would the elves feel the need to travel quickly from one tomb to another? Even if the tombs were really just the resting place of Dreamers who were not actually dead but sleeping, it seems odd that it was felt necessary to access them quickly from anywhere in Elvhenan if they were still accessible from their immediate locality. If they were in fact sealed off from the real world side, why still allow access at all?
I thought that perhaps the Crossroads were something that was created in order to avoid disturbing the Titans when performing magic but it is clear from ruins we have found in DAO and DAI that the elves spent quite a bit of their time underground and built major structures there, so clearly after Mythal's conquest, the Titans were no longer a problem. So what was the reason for creating this vast network of inter-dimensional constructs?
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Post by opuspace on Apr 2, 2019 21:11:49 GMT
Maybe it was more than convenience, the Crossroads could have been safer too in avoiding aggressive spirits. We can drive along back roads with our car, but a highway is safer in reducing unexpected damage from a mudslide or a deer. It could have been a place to make enemies of the Elvhen more difficult to follow.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 3, 2019 16:50:33 GMT
That would suggest that the Crossroads network was separate from Thedas and the Fade even before the Veil. Also there were spirits shown interacting with the elves in the Vir Dirthara. Where was this? If it was in the one of the inter-dimensional structures, how did they keep the other spirits out? Just how many enemies did they really have that they couldn't cope with on the Thedas side? After they dealt with the Titans I'd have thought anything else would have seemed easy. I had wondered if the surface of Thedas was somehow hostile and that is why they had so many structures underground, but we saw ruins that were on the surface so that seems more just a matter of taste or perhaps which god they followed.
However, from things Solas says and even the lore of the Dalish, it would seem that the real city of Arlathan was part of this network and only certain favoured individuals were allowed access. Keeper Gisharel says how "at the center of the world stood the great city of Arlathan, a place of knowledge and debate, where the best of the ancient elves would go to trade knowledge, greet old friends, and settle disputes that had gone on for millennia". That sounds like the city we see in the memories. So I wonder if instead of being created to keep enemies out, it was simply something the Evanuris created to keep the lower ranks out. So the whole thing was the realm of the gods and their chosen. Those tombs I mentioned were said to be those of nobles, not ordinary elves, so that would fit with it being some sort of elite domain to which only certain privileged individuals were granted entry.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 3, 2019 20:07:55 GMT
If I understand you correctly, your question is “Why did the elves create the Crossroads when they could have just had a central RL location serve the same purpose, kind of like an airport terminal?”
The simplest answer is that they had to create the Crossroads in order for the eluvian network to actually function.
Instantaneous teleportation is impossible in modern Thedas; you can’t snap your fingers and immediately move from Denerim to Val Royeaux. It’s likely that even with all their power, the ancient elves still couldn’t use the eluvians to teleport from one physical location to another instantaneously.
The Crossroads were the elves’ workaround: a pocket dimension linking all the eluvians together. You would still need to walk to your destination, but the time spent travelling the Crossroads would be way shorter than travelling in the real world.
As to why the eluvians connected to tombs, I suspect that not only allowed servants to check on the elven nobles laying In Uthenara, but also provided a quick exit for any dreamer who woke up and wanted to get the hell out of the underground crypt they were sleeping in.
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Post by wickedcool on Apr 4, 2019 14:04:28 GMT
In trespasser did they cut out the crossroads or those eluvians separate? They also seem very different from the previous games
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Post by Iddy on Apr 4, 2019 16:01:58 GMT
While we're at it, I'd like to know how the hell did Morrigan use the Crossroads as a place of refuge.
For non-elves, even a few minutes in that place is hard to endure.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 4, 2019 17:31:22 GMT
In trespasser did they cut out the crossroads or those eluvians separate? They also seem very different from the previous games Yes, they changed the design entirely from DAI to Trespasser but I assume they could argue that what Morrigan showed us was the central hub, whereas what we were running around in Trespasser was one of the branches. For non-elves, even a few minutes in that place is hard to endure. I think they hand-waved that bit of detail from Masked Empire. After all none of our companions seemed to have a problem with the Crossroads in Trespasser, just saw it differently from elves. Having the modern elves in Masked Empire have no ill effects from the Crossroads, yet regarded as totally different by ancient ones did seem something of a contradiction. Also Morrigan is probably a special case having been the offspring of Flemeth/Mythal, so probably does have something special to her physique not shared by other elf bloods. Mind you, considering Flemeth apparently had her own pocket realm in the Fade, it is odd that it took drinking from the Well of Sorrows for her to detect Morrigan when surely it should have been possible for her to know someone had managed to get into the Crossroads. Instantaneous teleportation is impossible in Dragon Age; you can’t snap your fingers and immediately move from Denerim to Val Royeaux. It also stands to reason the eluvians couldn’t transport the ancient elves from one physical location to another instantaneously. This is not really the same thing. No, you can't just teleport by ordinary magic, which is why they needed the eluvians at all. However, there is another problem with how things are depicted in DAI and that is how Kieran is able to change the destination of the eluvian from the Crossroads to the Fade. Now Morrigan suggested it might be easier to move from the Crossroads to the Fade but this was implied to be because being nearer in relation to it, it would be easier to break through, which is why it would be dangerous to give Corypheus access to the network. However, she never suggested you could simply use one of the eluvians to get directly to the Fade. Okay, so Morrigan doesn't know everything but it seemed like each eluvian was either a doorway to the Crossroads or a doorway from the Crossroads. According to your theory it should have been impossible to simply teleport from Thedas to the Fade without passing through the Crossroads and yet that is what Kieran did. Also back in DAO the eluvian was a portal to what looked like a dark city and through which darkspawn were escaping. So unless that eluvian was an entry to the Black City in the Fade, it would seem you could teleport through the eluvian to another part of Thedas without passing through the Crossroads.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 4, 2019 17:43:50 GMT
Except the Fade isn’t separated from Thedas by physical distance. No matter where you are on the continent, you can enter the Fade because doing so merely requires a shift in perspective. The Fade may change depending on where you are, as it reflects physical surroundings, but entering the Fade isn’t the same as teleporting from Point A to Point B; it’s more like shifting out of phase at Point A and materializing in whatever is Point A’s equivalent in the Down Below.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 4, 2019 19:53:36 GMT
No matter where you are on the continent, you can enter the Fade because doing so merely requires a shift in perspective. Of course you can enter the Fade from anywhere in the continent and since it is meant to be constantly shifting there should be no way of determining where in the Fade you will appear. However, the events in "Into the Abyss" would seem to disprove this. When we entered the Fade physically (something that was previously impossible unless it is the Black City which is the only constant in the Fade) we arrived in the Nightmare Demon's realm and had to move through it in order to reach the rift that would return us to Thedas. Actually that whole business was odd. The anchor apparently opened a rift to let us into the Fade but we couldn't simply open another to let us out. Why did we end up in the Nightmare Demon's realm and not some random area? Why did we traverse an area that was totally unlike the world we had come from, when if it was matching the distance we travelled in the real world, the terrain ought to have matched it in appearance? Why was the demon's realm solid and unchanging when we have previously been told that the domains of even the most powerful demons are ever shifting? Then the visit with Kieran and Flemeth was even more at odds with what we had been told about the Fade. What was this pocket realm that Flemeth seemed to have maintained? Where did she get the power from to do this? Bear in mind that Mythal is just a "wisp", a fragment of what she was before, yet is able to maintain this place to which presumably she lured Kieran. I have to admit that previously I totally understood the idea of the "land of dreams" being a shifting place and anything we see within it that looks familiar is merely a reflection of what spirits "see" in our world. Dreamers who can enter the Fade in their minds at will do so because they have the ability to shift their perspective when conscious without the aid of lyrium. However, the two Fade realms we enter in DAI, allowing for re-use of resources by the programmers, do not conform to what has been true previously as they reflect nothing of the real world we have just left.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 4, 2019 20:07:48 GMT
The anchor apparently opened a rift to let us into the Fade but we couldn't simply open another to let us out. Why did we end up in the Nightmare Demon's realm and not some random area? Why did we traverse an area that was totally unlike the world we had come from, when if it was matching the distance we travelled in the real world, the terrain ought to have matched it in appearance? Why was the demon's realm solid and unchanging when we have previously been told that the domains of even the most powerful demons are ever shifting? 1) Because Nightmare's realm roughly corresponded to Adamant. If you zoom in on the rifts during the siege of the fortress, you can actually see Nightmare chilling on the other side.
2) The Fade is never a perfect mirror of reality, and crossing over physically into a place that is inherently non-physical might have also had an effect on the terrain.
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Quickpaw
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
Posts: 452 Likes: 564
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Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Apr 7, 2019 21:41:11 GMT
As I understand, the thoughts of mortals and physical space of the real world influences the corresponding space in the Fade. IE the Inquisitor opened a rift while in midair to let him/herself and their companions into the Fade as it related to that specific point in space, and trying to open another one in roughly the same area in the Fade would have dumped them back into that free-fall and "rocks fall everyone dies."
So they had to climb to where the Nightmare demon was in the Fade because that was a "guaranteed safe exit point" (in geographical terms anyway) since that is where Clarel was trying to summon it.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 10, 2019 14:11:05 GMT
Why did the ancient elf cross the Crossroads?
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
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Post by melbella on Apr 11, 2019 3:13:50 GMT
Why did the ancient elf cross the Crossroads?
To get to the other Sidhe?
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