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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2019 4:25:38 GMT
Supposed to be tomorrow, right?
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 9, 2019 4:43:33 GMT
Supposed to be tomorrow, right? Unless it's delayed again, it should be tomorrow.
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Post by Blaze on Apr 9, 2019 6:45:46 GMT
i don't care about this guy, i don't bother reading his articles. no i don't care his information is "reliable". to me it seems he the type of journalist that publish an article with no concern who it might effect and how. there's more than one way to relay the same information, and if you don't make attempt to do it the way that hurt the least amount of people, that as far as i'm concerned you can go fuck yourself.
so yeah i'm done venting, he can write whatever he wants, i don't care, no article of his stopped me from enjoying andromeda and i doubt bioware will manage to make a dragon age game that i won't enjoy.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 7:22:36 GMT
I'm nervous about what his piece is gonna reveal about Laidlaw's departure. The reference to it in the Anthem piece made it sound like my absolute worse version of events as it relates to him leaving did happen which is: Laidlaw loves DA but the creative switch EA wanted was just such an ass-suck he'd rather leave than work to make it a reality. Okay, but then you'd have to measure this against the words of the man himself - not sure if some of the videos from his Twitch channel exist where he talked about it (probably not), but there might be an interview I may yet be able to find. Mike always seemed like a diplomatic guy who doesn't air dirty laundry by default, but he did state very clearly that there was no conflict that caused his departure, that he's been eyeing the exit for a while and itched to try something new (you know, like Casey Hudson in 2014) and that the slowdown during the... reboot? ... reset? allowed him to depart gracefully with least amount of harm done to the remaining team or project. So I think the question how Jason is going to spin it, but I'm not optimistic after the last article, where he used phrases like 'project was cancelled' and then 'Laidlaw left', trying to create appropriate causation in reader's mind spiked with implications of deep drama. But those who remember what Mike Laidlaw said (and unless we assume his own recollection of events changed or got... expanded?) after his departure his own words seem to suggest that, while the 'reboot' might be why he's left, the reason and context for it less dramatic.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 9, 2019 8:56:26 GMT
Sure, but what I'm also going to keep in mind with Laidlaw is that he's 1) a high profile professional who 2) intends to remain in game development and as such he is unlikely to make a stink/burn bridges/create a PR issue regardless of what's going on behind the scenes. A fair reading is going to (among other contextual and background cues) acknowledge that Schreier has a vested interest in fluffing his piece a bit (drama = clicks = burnishing his reputation) and that Mike Laidlaw has a vested interest in not throwing a hissy fit regardless of how much the situation might warrant it (unprofessional and hurtful to his friends working at Bioware).
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 9, 2019 9:17:40 GMT
I'm nervous about what his piece is gonna reveal about Laidlaw's departure. The reference to it in the Anthem piece made it sound like my absolute worse version of events as it relates to him leaving did happen which is: Laidlaw loves DA but the creative switch EA wanted was just such an ass-suck he'd rather leave than work to make it a reality. <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 5.719999999999999px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_58900790" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="5.719999999999999"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 5.72px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_75507276" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="5.719999999999999"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 5.72px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 96px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_72976108" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="5.719999999999999"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 5.72px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 96px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_67954142" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="5.719999999999999"></iframe> Laidlaw leaving because of the reboot not being what he wanted to work on has always been my assumption. Of course he'd never say so, bad-mouthing your former exployer is career suicide. And I doubt Schreier's article will shed light on that. The most he could probably say is that Bioware lost a number of employees due to directional changes. Nobody would want their name associated with it. Maybe Laidlaw just wanted to do something different in general as he said. We'll probably never know.
I have given up on Bioware. Most of the magicians are gone. I don't think Weekes alone can save Dragon Age. I'll keep a casual eye on DA4 but I expect it to be either bland (MEA) or a mess (Anthem) again unless Bioware undergoes massive changes in project management and hires amazing new writers and level designers. Not holding my breath.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 9, 2019 12:36:40 GMT
I assume there will be a Laidlaw portion, not from the horse's mouth but 3rd parties views of it.
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Post by apollexander on Apr 9, 2019 14:05:54 GMT
I wonder what Alexis Kennedy had done on Project Joplin.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 9, 2019 15:18:48 GMT
I wonder what Alexis Kennedy had done on Project Joplin. Isn't Joplin just Dragon Age 4; which now been named Morrison?
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2019 15:21:09 GMT
Laidlaw leaving because of the reboot not being what he wanted to work on has always been my assumption. Of course he'd never say so, bad-mouthing your former exployer is career suicide. Until that employer finally makes a big enough screwup. Then suddenly, it turns out that everybody in the industry knew how awful the place was all along. We should have a phrase for this sort of thing. The Cosby Effect?
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 15:40:32 GMT
Sure, but what I'm also going to keep in mind with Laidlaw is that he's 1) a high profile professional who 2) intends to remain in game development and as such he is unlikely to make a stink/burn bridges/create a PR issue regardless of what's going on behind the scenes. A fair reading is going to (among other contextual and background cues) acknowledge that Schreier has a vested interest in fluffing his piece a bit (drama = clicks = burnishing his reputation) and that Mike Laidlaw has a vested interest in not throwing a hissy fit regardless of how much the situation might warrant it (unprofessional and hurtful to his friends working at Bioware). As a professional he also can't be put in a position in which he is made to look like he was lying about reasons of his departure. There's a difference between 'not making a stink' and being adamant that there were no disagreements and that he's used the slowdown as an opportunity to do something he's been thinking for a while, rather than what is suggested.
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Post by rahavan on Apr 9, 2019 15:47:38 GMT
i don't care about this guy, i don't bother reading his articles. no i don't care his information is "reliable". to me it seems he the type of journalist that publish an article with no concern who it might effect and how. there's more than one way to relay the same information, and if you don't make attempt to do it the way that hurt the least amount of people, that as far as i'm concerned you can go fuck yourself. so yeah i'm done venting, he can write whatever he wants, i don't care, no article of his stopped me from enjoying andromeda and i doubt bioware will manage to make a dragon age game that i won't enjoy. The article never targets anyone negatively. Sure management looks bad but we dont know any names so its fine. In this case I would say hes trying to stop a company over working its employees to the point of making them "stress casualties". Which, by the way, if you look that up you find articles talking about deployed solders so that's not at all okay to give people that kind of stress at a supposed good job. You are likely right in that you will enjoy DA4 but is it okay to enjoy a product made of off the suffering and abuse of others? Because acting the way you are kind of implies you're okay with that.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 9, 2019 16:14:44 GMT
Sure, but what I'm also going to keep in mind with Laidlaw is that he's 1) a high profile professional who 2) intends to remain in game development and as such he is unlikely to make a stink/burn bridges/create a PR issue regardless of what's going on behind the scenes. A fair reading is going to (among other contextual and background cues) acknowledge that Schreier has a vested interest in fluffing his piece a bit (drama = clicks = burnishing his reputation) and that Mike Laidlaw has a vested interest in not throwing a hissy fit regardless of how much the situation might warrant it (unprofessional and hurtful to his friends working at Bioware). As a professional he also can't be put in a position in which he is made to look like he was lying about reasons of his departure. There's a difference between 'not making a stink' and being adamant that there were no disagreements and that he's used the slowdown as an opportunity to do something he's been thinking for a while, rather than what is suggested. Guess it comes down to our respective perceptions on human motivations because I don't really agree tbh. Reactionary fanbase + skittish investors + stock price that's vulnerable to hashtag = if you're an upper middle class AAA professional who plans to continue working in the industry you should lie to avoid rocking the boat, especially when it boils down to your own personal motivations. If someone says you're lying about the motivations just say "NO U." There's no real tangible consequence to lying here, be honest if you like to the people who matter but the plebeian masses don't. Not that I'm saying he IS lying btw, I'm just saying that he has reason to lie. Both things (him wanting to leave for a long time + him being disgusted by enforced changes) could also be true.
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Post by Blaze on Apr 9, 2019 16:48:51 GMT
i don't care about this guy, i don't bother reading his articles. no i don't care his information is "reliable". to me it seems he the type of journalist that publish an article with no concern who it might effect and how. there's more than one way to relay the same information, and if you don't make attempt to do it the way that hurt the least amount of people, that as far as i'm concerned you can go fuck yourself. so yeah i'm done venting, he can write whatever he wants, i don't care, no article of his stopped me from enjoying andromeda and i doubt bioware will manage to make a dragon age game that i won't enjoy. The article never targets anyone negatively. Sure management looks bad but we dont know any names so its fine. In this case I would say hes trying to stop a company over working its employees to the point of making them "stress casualties". Which, by the way, if you look that up you find articles talking about deployed solders so that's not at all okay to give people that kind of stress at a supposed good job. You are likely right in that you will enjoy DA4 but is it okay to enjoy a product made of off the suffering and abuse of others? Because acting the way you are kind of implies you're okay with that. i haven't read his article, i had read a piece of his in the past, he have the tendency to take fast and twist them into drama. you saying he didn't do it in his latest article? if so,fair enough, i'm not gonna read it so i'll have to take your word for it. i did NOT implied in any way that i approve of over working your stuff for a game or anything for that matter. i wasn't even referencing his latest article in any way (and since i didn't read said article, it would've been pointless for me to do so). i simply saw the title of this thread about what we think JS sentiment will be about his next dragon age piece and responded that i don't care and elaborated why. to your question; no game, product, or otherwise should be done on the suffering of others (though sadly, a lot of the products that we buy, like our clothes is done by child labor) and any issue a game industry company had on that regard should be brought to light. thing is, there's the right way to do it, in which you bring issues to light in a way that raise awareness about them without hurting anyone, and there's a way to do it that gives it more flair and drama and to the issue with no regard on how it effect people. as i said multiple times, i haven't read the particular article you were referring to, so i don't know if dear jason did it the right way, but i doubt it. to bring us back to my original comment, his latest article and it's points are irrelevant, all i'm saying is that whatever he writes about dragon age 4, regardless if it will be negative or positive, it will have 0% effect on me, cause i'm not gonna bother reading it, and the game likely gonna be good even if the article will imply otherwise.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 16:56:46 GMT
As a professional he also can't be put in a position in which he is made to look like he was lying about reasons of his departure. There's a difference between 'not making a stink' and being adamant that there were no disagreements and that he's used the slowdown as an opportunity to do something he's been thinking for a while, rather than what is suggested. Guess it comes down to our respective perceptions on human motivations because I don't really agree tbh. Reactionary fanbase + skittish investors + stock price that's vulnerable to hashtag = if you're an upper middle class AAA professional who plans to continue working in the industry you should lie to avoid rocking the boat, especially when it boils down to your own personal motivations. If someone says you're lying about the motivations just say "NO U." There's no real tangible consequence to lying here, be honest if you like to the people who matter but the plebeian masses don't. Not that I'm saying he IS lying btw, I'm just saying that he has reason to lie. Both things (him wanting to leave for a long time + him being disgusted by enforced changes) could also be true. You're making it seem that whenever whatever article shows up and offers conflicting information you're going to put more stock in what it says than what the guy in question actually said, and if he said something that doesn't gel with what is now still assumed is in the article then you're ready to say that he's the one who lied That's Catch-22 material. And before we go into 'you disbelieve Schreier's sources?' - unless they make themselves public we don't know how many sources there are for each project and who he's actually tapping, never mind that - just like in case of working in Anthem - people can have different feelings of different intensity about matters, including lead's departure, regardless what the lead in question's feelings on the matter are. So if the source isn't the guy himself, how do we even know whether it's even accurate (and to be fair to Schreier, what we're talking about is merely a theoretical content of article that either doesn't exist or isn't published yet and we have no idea what's in it)?
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Post by Fredward on Apr 9, 2019 17:18:06 GMT
Guess it comes down to our respective perceptions on human motivations because I don't really agree tbh. Reactionary fanbase + skittish investors + stock price that's vulnerable to hashtag = if you're an upper middle class AAA professional who plans to continue working in the industry you should lie to avoid rocking the boat, especially when it boils down to your own personal motivations. If someone says you're lying about the motivations just say "NO U." There's no real tangible consequence to lying here, be honest if you like to the people who matter but the plebeian masses don't. Not that I'm saying he IS lying btw, I'm just saying that he has reason to lie. Both things (him wanting to leave for a long time + him being disgusted by enforced changes) could also be true. You're making it seem that whenever whatever article shows up and offers conflicting information you're going to put more stock in what it says than what the guy in question actually said, and if he said something that doesn't gel with what is now still assumed is in the article then you're ready to say that he's the one who lied That's Catch-22 material. Er, no. Lets do a reread: A fair reading is going to (among other contextual and background cues) acknowledge that Schreier has a vested interest in fluffing his piece a bit (drama = clicks = burnishing his reputation) and that Mike Laidlaw has a vested interest in not throwing a hissy fit regardless of how much the situation might warrant it (unprofessional and hurtful to his friends working at Bioware). Not that I'm saying he IS lying btw, I'm just saying that he has reason to lie. Both things (him wanting to leave for a long time + him being disgusted by enforced changes) could also be true. When an article shows up offering conflicting information it would be reasonable to re/consider the motives of all actors since new information has been offered and not just stick to the previously established script. I have not, am not and will not suggest that Laidlaw IS (as in: fact) lying wrt his motivations for leaving on Schreier's say so because that would be dumb. I will, however, reconsider both what Laidlaw said if Schreier were to give direct contradiction and what Schreier gains in framing it in such a way. A fair, holistic reading in light of new information and not just what would make me more comfortable to believe. But the article has been released and Laidlaw barely gets mentioned, motives unexamined, and doesn't seem nearly as bad as I was expecting so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 9, 2019 17:38:48 GMT
I don't take video game articles based on unnamed "sources familiar with the studio" or what have you terribly seriously. Schreier has legit sources. He's the one gaming journalist where if he says something, people can pretty much treat it as ... solid, though maybe biased, information. He's earned that distinction over the past 6 or 7 years. They only take the next BSN random poster seriously, not a journalist with a fantastic track record, because that doesn't fit our agenda. I also don't think these people know that you don't go around naming your sources because they're well... sources, but anyways, let them live their fantasy.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 10, 2019 1:45:27 GMT
I hope some of the story stuff will be revealed. Plot, protagonist, etc. It'd be nice to actually know rather than just educated guessing. Honestly, at this point I'm not even sure that Bioware quite knows definitively what protagonist or plot they're going to use for DA4.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2019 1:50:35 GMT
I hope some of the story stuff will be revealed. Plot, protagonist, etc. It'd be nice to actually know rather than just educated guessing. Honestly, at this point I'm not even sure that Bioware quite knows definitively what protagonist or plot they're going to use for DA4. they should have at least a good idea what they WANT to do in that regard. The only thing that might change in regards to that choice is if the voice actor they want to get (like if they want the Inquisitor to return) doesen't want to do it then that might change but I find it inconcievable they are THAT early in production.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 10, 2019 1:58:48 GMT
Honestly, at this point I'm not even sure that Bioware quite knows definitively what protagonist or plot they're going to use for DA4. they should have at least a good idea what they WANT to do in that regard. The only thing that might change in regards to that choice is if the voice actor they want to get (like if they want the Inquisitor to return) doesn't want to do it then that might change but I find it inconceivable they are THAT early in production. I was speaking mostly in jest, but still I wouldn't be surprised that the core story elements of the game were still in flux and that Bioware has mostly been spending their time working on creating assets and seeing what they can and cannot do in Frostbite. It's a pretty cynical assumption, I know, but the issues with Anthem (if they did happen as Schreier claims) and this alleged reboot during development have bumped me out enough to think it's a possibility, if only a slim one.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2019 2:05:11 GMT
they should have at least a good idea what they WANT to do in that regard. The only thing that might change in regards to that choice is if the voice actor they want to get (like if they want the Inquisitor to return) doesn't want to do it then that might change but I find it inconceivable they are THAT early in production. I was speaking mostly in jest, but still I wouldn't be surprised that the core story elements of the game were still in flux and that Bioware has mostly been spending their time working on creating assets and seeing what they can and cannot do in Frostbite. It's a pretty cynical assumption, I know, but the issues with Anthem (if they did happen as Schreier claims) and this alleged reboot during development have bumped me out enough to think it's a possibility, if only a slim one. Ah. In that case it really does depend on how much you trust Hudson as a manager.
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Post by jamiecotc on Apr 10, 2019 20:25:03 GMT
When DAI came out it was new and shiny, but the more I played the more hollow it became. Now, after ME:A and Anthem, I don't have much faith in BW as a developer any longer, despite the leaks and articles. Neither ME:A or Anthem are necessarily bad games, but they fall far short of the company that produced the ME trilogy and DA:O. BW, the studio that made some of my favorite games, is gone and it will be a hard road to acceptance.
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