Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 9, 2019 16:33:45 GMT
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 9, 2019 16:43:07 GMT
Plans for the original Project: Joplin (before the reboot):
"Another former BioWare developer who worked on Joplin called it “some of the best work experiences” they’d ever had. “We were working towards something very cool, a hugely reactive game, smaller in scope than Dragon Age: Inquisition but much larger in player choice, followers, reactivity, and depth,” they said. “I’m sad that game will never get made.”
You’d play as a group of spies in Tevinter Imperium, a wizard-ruled country on the north end of Dragon Age’s main continent, Thedas. The goal was to focus as much as possible on choice and consequence, with smaller areas and fewer fetch quests than Dragon Age: Inquisition. (In other words, they wanted Joplin to be the opposite of the Hinterlands.) There was an emphasis on “repeat play,” one developer said, noting that they wanted to make areas that changed over time and missions that branched in interesting ways based on your decisions, to the point where you could even get “non-standard game overs” if you followed certain paths.
A large chunk of Joplin would center on heists. The developers talked about building systemic narrative mechanics, allowing the player to perform actions like persuading or extorting guards without the writers having to hand-craft every scene. It was all very ambitious and very early, and would have no doubt changed drastically once Joplin entered production, but members of the team say they were thrilled about the possibilities."
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Post by luketrevelyan on Apr 9, 2019 16:46:12 GMT
Read that pretty quickly, but the original ideas for DA4 (Joplin) sounded amazing. The new direction sounds very much up in the air and very far off. Not sure what to think about it because there weren't many concrete details.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 9, 2019 16:48:21 GMT
Plans for the original Project: Joplin (before the reboot): "Another former BioWare developer who worked on Joplin called it “some of the best work experiences” they’d ever had. “We were working towards something very cool, a hugely reactive game, smaller in scope than Dragon Age: Inquisition but much larger in player choice, followers, reactivity, and depth,” they said. “I’m sad that game will never get made.”
You’d play as a group of spies in Tevinter Imperium, a wizard-ruled country on the north end of Dragon Age’s main continent, Thedas. The goal was to focus as much as possible on choice and consequence, with smaller areas and fewer fetch quests than Dragon Age: Inquisition. (In other words, they wanted Joplin to be the opposite of the Hinterlands.) There was an emphasis on “repeat play,” one developer said, noting that they wanted to make areas that changed over time and missions that branched in interesting ways based on your decisions, to the point where you could even get “non-standard game overs” if you followed certain paths.
A large chunk of Joplin would center on heists. The developers talked about building systemic narrative mechanics, allowing the player to perform actions like persuading or extorting guards without the writers having to hand-craft every scene. It was all very ambitious and very early, and would have no doubt changed drastically once Joplin entered production, but members of the team say they were thrilled about the possibilities."I'm very glad this original version got scrapped now. Sounds awful.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Apr 9, 2019 16:57:24 GMT
They're going to lose a lot of sales (at least from current DA fans) if they go online only. There are still a lot of folks about without a reliable internet connection. Personally I don't want multiplayer anything touching my single player games. I second the NOPE from Hanako Ikezawa about other players decisions changing things. Just no. I do hope that they have a good multiplayer mode for the people that enjoy that sort of thing of course. One that can make the money EA wants. I just really hope that they can do that without destroying the rest of the game for everyone else. Other than the paragraph about what the game almost was (playing as spies), I don't really see any new information. Seems like a lot of this article was him rehashing stuff he's already written about.
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Post by Lazarillo on Apr 9, 2019 17:00:51 GMT
This article was a lot less meaty than his last couple on Anthem, but I guess that's not so surprising (it's fairly easy to go over things that happened in the past, harder to sum up things that are happening in the present without knowing what effects they'll have). It did reinforce my already-held belief that DA4's not going to be...for me, shall we say, but even that's just more, well, reinforcement. It's not like I wasn't already expecting it.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 9, 2019 17:04:53 GMT
So, three years away sounds about right...
I'm fine with that, honestly. EA has re-set the timeline on "Dragon Age's" development and wiped the previous two years off. They need to take the time to crystallize their vision and execute while giving their people reasonable time for development.
My guess is they end up having a DLC "live service" element like "Assassin's Creed: Odyssey" - a main 40-ish hour main narrative with some side quests of consequence followed by epilogue DLCs that can extend the experience and keep you engaged.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 9, 2019 17:17:18 GMT
Jason Schreier @jasonschreier Please do keep in mind that nobody, including the team behind Dragon Age 4, knows what Dragon Age 4 will ultimately look like. It's changing every day, and the negative reception to Anthem (plus EA's awful recent track record) might have a very real impact.
I mean, hell, maybe the Dragon Age 4 leads will gather all the negative reactions to this article, put them into a PowerPoint presentation, and use them as leverage against EA's pressure. Stranger things have happened.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Apr 9, 2019 17:20:16 GMT
Plans for the original Project: Joplin (before the reboot): "Another former BioWare developer who worked on Joplin called it “some of the best work experiences” they’d ever had. “We were working towards something very cool, a hugely reactive game, smaller in scope than Dragon Age: Inquisition but much larger in player choice, followers, reactivity, and depth,” they said. “I’m sad that game will never get made.”
You’d play as a group of spies in Tevinter Imperium, a wizard-ruled country on the north end of Dragon Age’s main continent, Thedas. The goal was to focus as much as possible on choice and consequence, with smaller areas and fewer fetch quests than Dragon Age: Inquisition. (In other words, they wanted Joplin to be the opposite of the Hinterlands.) There was an emphasis on “repeat play,” one developer said, noting that they wanted to make areas that changed over time and missions that branched in interesting ways based on your decisions, to the point where you could even get “non-standard game overs” if you followed certain paths.
A large chunk of Joplin would center on heists. The developers talked about building systemic narrative mechanics, allowing the player to perform actions like persuading or extorting guards without the writers having to hand-craft every scene. It was all very ambitious and very early, and would have no doubt changed drastically once Joplin entered production, but members of the team say they were thrilled about the possibilities."I'm very glad this original version got scrapped now. Sounds awful. What exactly sounds bad to you, if you don't mind me asking?
I'll agree with you on the thing with other players taking control of your companions and the world changing based on things other people do. That is a recipe for disaster and one big, red NO stamp.
But the parts about consequences truly mattering and replayability depending on how you choose to resolve a situation (talk your way out of it or fight your way out of it and have that influence your success or the way people react to you afterwards) sounds pretty good. I also saw a lot of people liken the whole "smaller areas and fewer fetch quests than Dragon Age: Inquisition" to mean Dragon Age 2, but wasn't Trespasser like that - smaller areas with more tight knit story and less useless busy work? I know you didn't like Trespasser's story but didn't you like or see the merits of not spreading themselves like too little butter over too much toast, so to speak?
Heck, maybe this was a chance to make the concept of DA2 actually work.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 9, 2019 17:21:06 GMT
Well, this was...not encouraging. But not unexpected, I suppose. Just have to wait and see how things play out.
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Post by DarkSnow on Apr 9, 2019 17:23:42 GMT
... this sucks on so many levels.
It's ironic that the first time in the DA franchise they were not trying to get the feel or numbers of other games but making the game based solely on their previous one they got scrapped. Fate is truly a b***h.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 9, 2019 17:25:15 GMT
Will agree that Joplin sounded sexy, but there's surprisingly little to invest in one way or the other wrt Morrison. I can't tell how much is Schreier's take on what live service is/must entail and how much he's picked up from the devs and the emphasis on uncertainty makes me think that's not accidental.
I'm ready to mourn an opportunity lost but not fear the future (more than prior to this article anyway, and that was already a lot but.)
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Post by ellanathehamster on Apr 9, 2019 17:25:45 GMT
All i can say- fuuuuucking Anthem. if not for that....game, we would have finished DA 4 by now.
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aznricepuff
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Post by aznricepuff on Apr 9, 2019 17:30:21 GMT
I just want to point out that the two examples Jason gave of "things he heard" DA4 could do as a live service game are things he heard from random people on the internet, not things he heard from devs or other people involved with DA4's production. Just in case people were freaking out that Bioware might actually be thinking of implementing those specific things.
How do I know this? He has used the exact same two examples in old Kotaku forum posts (including on the original article that mentioned DA4's "reboot"), where he was more clear about where he got those examples from: a Kotaku thread where people were asked (maybe by Jason himself, I don't remember exactly who posed the question) to give examples of how they think DA4 might/should implement live service.
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Post by Lazarillo on Apr 9, 2019 17:31:39 GMT
All i can say- fuuuuucking Anthem. if not for that.... game, we would have finished DA 4 by now. In all fairness, if not for Anthem, DA4 could've just as easily been just like Anthem. I mean, I'm not so easily convinced it won't be anyway, but still.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 9, 2019 17:32:49 GMT
Here comes another trainwreck by the looks of it, almost five years they're still figuring what the game will even look like. What has Bioware turned into? Geez.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 9, 2019 17:32:54 GMT
I just want to point out that the two examples Jason gave of "things he heard" DA4 could do as a live service game are things he heard from random people on the internet, not things he heard from devs or other people involved with DA4's production. Just in case people were freaking out that Bioware might actually be thinking of implementing those specific things. How do I know this? He has used the exact same two examples in old Kotaku forum posts (including on the original article that mentioned DA4's "reboot"), where he was more clear about where he got those examples from: a Kotaku thread where people were asked (maybe by Jason himself, I don't remember exactly who posed the question) to give examples of how they think DA4 might/should implement live service. If this is the case, it makes me feel a bit better. Thank you.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 17:34:18 GMT
They're going to lose a lot of sales (at least from current DA fans) if they go online only. There are still a lot of folks about without a reliable internet connection. Personally I don't want multiplayer anything touching my single player games. I second the NOPE from Hanako Ikezawa about other players decisions changing things. Just no. I do hope that they have a good multiplayer mode for the people that enjoy that sort of thing of course. One that can make the money EA wants. I just really hope that they can do that without destroying the rest of the game for everyone else. I don't think we're at any risk of other players changing major decisions in our games, so I wouldn't worry about it. It would likely be peripheral stuff of minuscule to no impact on our world state. I am ready, however, to see a world that is more dynamic (hence online), with potentially switched on and off events and so on. Also - given that the spying/undercover angle has long been guessed as being present in the story and is STILL present in recently published auxiliary material, I have a feeling that the spying angle will still be heavily present ...Although I wouldn't put much stock in envisioning what supposed previous vision was supposed to be... same with first concepts for Anthem, or MEA or whatever. Vague concepts almost always sound better, because they carry an unlimited potential that isn't always feasible, or turns out to be not that great/very different in execution. This is hardly a property of apparently meandering DA team - it's true with many creative projects that how the thing looks at the end usually bears little resemblance to how it looked at the start... I mean, nevermind that the concept itself could go into a ton of different directions that vary wildly from one another depending on what they actually are. Yep, I can't say I expected much else. A couple new details and a lot of reiteration from the writer's previous articles/books.
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Post by natetrace on Apr 9, 2019 17:35:44 GMT
Hmm. We seem to know what we knew before. I think it's possible we will have a single player campaign with companions, but maybe a friend can hop in if you want? If you don't want that you don't have to? Who knows
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 9, 2019 17:37:31 GMT
...not really sure how to feel about the entire article... guess all we can do is wait and see where it goes I just hope multiplayer (in whatever form) is going to be optional and not have it affect the singleplayer if it's like Mass Effect 3, I can deal with that (I mean if you gained enough war assets you could still beat the game even without the 100% readiness) but I'm not sure how I feel about drop in/drop out or other people regulating my game's world if I wanted people to do that, I'd play MMO's
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Post by Iakus on Apr 9, 2019 17:42:41 GMT
Plans for the original Project: Joplin (before the reboot): "Another former BioWare developer who worked on Joplin called it “some of the best work experiences” they’d ever had. “We were working towards something very cool, a hugely reactive game, smaller in scope than Dragon Age: Inquisition but much larger in player choice, followers, reactivity, and depth,” they said. “I’m sad that game will never get made.”
You’d play as a group of spies in Tevinter Imperium, a wizard-ruled country on the north end of Dragon Age’s main continent, Thedas. The goal was to focus as much as possible on choice and consequence, with smaller areas and fewer fetch quests than Dragon Age: Inquisition. (In other words, they wanted Joplin to be the opposite of the Hinterlands.) There was an emphasis on “repeat play,” one developer said, noting that they wanted to make areas that changed over time and missions that branched in interesting ways based on your decisions, to the point where you could even get “non-standard game overs” if you followed certain paths.
A large chunk of Joplin would center on heists. The developers talked about building systemic narrative mechanics, allowing the player to perform actions like persuading or extorting guards without the writers having to hand-craft every scene. It was all very ambitious and very early, and would have no doubt changed drastically once Joplin entered production, but members of the team say they were thrilled about the possibilities."Dammit, that first version sounded amazeballs! Maker, please don't let us be stuck with "Anthem with dragons"!
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Post by Grog Muffins on Apr 9, 2019 17:47:42 GMT
I just remembered something. I think at one point Mike Laidlaw spoke on a stream or in an interview or something like that about the good points of Divinity Original Sin 2. This thing with another player dropping in/out of controlling a companion sort of sounds like DOS2's multiplayer in which you can have a co-op campaign with up to 3 other players, each one controlling a character. However, that isn't really drop in/out at will, you need to start it as a multiplayer session and I don't think you can continue playing that particular session by yourself. Maybe they were trying to figure out a way to enable that sort of mechanic? Or a more cooperative version of Dark Souls' invasion mechanic?
I haven't played too much MP in DOS2, maybe someone who has can chime in?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 9, 2019 17:51:29 GMT
Calm down. We haven't even see a single frame yet. If Assassin's Creed Odyssey can be considered a live service game then I'm fine with it.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 17:52:33 GMT
Will agree that Joplin sounded sexy, but there's surprisingly little to invest in one way or the other wrt Morrison. I can't tell how much is Schreier's take on what live service is/must entail and how much he's picked up from the devs and the emphasis on uncertainty makes me think that's not accidental. I'm ready to mourn an opportunity lost but not fear the future (more than prior to this article anyway, and that was already a lot but.) Please don't mourn any opportunity lost, because the chance for the game (or many other creative works) to look anywhere close to "how cool you think it might be based on super-vague ideas thrown around in a few sentences" is tiny anyway. Anyhoo, I think the prevailing sentiment from the article is "...I have no clue, so it's guesswork time!". Then there's a whole question on who the sources are and how clued into the game development they are - from the looks if it, his sources on DA are fairly sparse and some of them aren't even on Dragon Age team, they are just 'current Bioware employees' and I think we know that being employed somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that they know that much about a specific project in the first place.
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Post by Lazarillo on Apr 9, 2019 17:57:22 GMT
Calm down. We haven't even see a single frame yet. If Assassin's Creed Odyssey can be considered a live service game then I'm fine with it. Wasn't Odyssey pretty widely panned for how it overextended the in-game grind if you didn't RMT for XP boosts?
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