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Post by samhain444 on Apr 9, 2019 18:02:27 GMT
Calm down. We haven't even see a single frame yet. If Assassin's Creed Odyssey can be considered a live service game then I'm fine with it. Wasn't Odyssey pretty widely panned for how it overextended the in-game grind if you didn't RMT for XP boosts? If you did the normal main and side quests, the XP was pretty normal. I never felt a grind. The money and XP boosts felt like "fine, you really don't want to play this game as intended, do you? Here, you can pay for this and be done with it" as opposed to something like "Shadow of War" where the end game grind made me stop and never come back.
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Post by blanks on Apr 9, 2019 18:03:32 GMT
The DA4 plan sounds really cool. I knew they were pivoting to a live service only future when Casey put out that nonsense blog post early on in his second stint at BioWare. Disappointing, but after Anthem I can't say I had any hope for what this studio was capable of publishing.
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Post by ericwalla on Apr 9, 2019 18:03:43 GMT
I hope I'm wrong but I don't have high hopes for the game. I love DA and I want a good 4th installment, but I think it will be rushed and botched, because they really need to put out something to regain somewhat on their lost reputation and they just simply can't afford to not to release someting because it's almost 5 years past since they last good game came out. Also it will be end up like Anthem and Andromeda because they don't know what to do in a panic mode and they will try to imitate other games live service model, but when it will be released that model and other mechanics that they copied will be outdated. Plus because of the long time between the games the aticipations will be high so it will be treated harshly for everly little bugs, mistakes and so on. This is what EA looks like in the past 5 years. They want to copy the new gameing trends and restart multiple develompents to do soo but they will be end up with games that are rushed and unfinished and riddiculed after their relise.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 9, 2019 18:07:18 GMT
Making the game online-only would probably kill off a good portion of their fanbase. They'd better work hard as hell to ensure the singleplayer can be played offline. I'm also not sure how I feel about global community changes affecting the course of the story. I'm sure on BioWare's end, it likely makes funneling down the players choices much easier (as its a community guided decision), but it takes away the immediacy of what the player is doing. Maybe it would have something to do with the Tevinter/Qunari war, and deciding who ultimately wins when its over? Idk. I actually do hope they try for smaller scope and replayability still. BioWare's attempts at open world haven't been that successful, and having a more linear (or focused) setting could allow for better player freedom and choice (so hopefully that still stays in).
Also, if this project is being restarted, then I wonder if it means that players will have to wait till 2022/2023 before the project finishes. It'd be stupid as fuck for EA to mandate live-service in all their games, leading to BioWare having to resize the scope and mechanics of the entire game, but still restrict them to the same launch schedule. Forgiving the dev costs they already put in doesn't really amount to much in that case.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 9, 2019 18:08:22 GMT
Pretty depressing read. Original idea sounded fantastic.
Clearly he’s not got huge info on new da4 but it does seem a major reboot and not just a resurrection and live service elements seem like they could be horrendous for sp rpg fans. Notion that companions will receive same focus if plan is for them to be used as multiplayer avatars seems fantastical to me.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 9, 2019 18:09:17 GMT
Please don't mourn any opportunity lost, because the chance for the game (or many other creative works) to look anywhere close to "how cool you think it might be based on super-vague ideas thrown around in a few sentences" is tiny anyway. Fair and I'll curtail my mournful activities to somewhere prior to rending my clothes and bathing in ash, but of the two broadly sketched DA4's (and acknowledging that the currently only existing one is subject to change, including subjectively positive change etc) Joplin simply sounded more my speed.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 9, 2019 18:09:56 GMT
What I find really amazing is that after Dragon Age Inquisition and the fixed version of Andromeda that Bioware felt like they were getting back on track, everything looked kind of promising again, there was a scent of hope in the air. And then they drove it all against the wall, full speed straight on, a wall everyone could see from miles away and warned about. Its just mind boggling. One idiotic decision after another.
And good luck with making Dragon Age 4 appeal to any of the old fans because with those guidelines and must-have features you can't make a Dragon Age worth a damn.
I guess thats really it.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 9, 2019 18:11:30 GMT
I hope I'm wrong but I don't have high hopes for the game. I love DA and I want a good 4th installment, but I think it will be rushed and botched, because they really need to put out something to regain somewhat on their lost reputation and they just simply can't afford to not to release someting because it's almost 5 years past since they last good game came out. Also it will be end up like Anthem and Andromeda because they don't know what to do in a panic mode and they will try to imitate other games live service model, but when it will be released that model and other mechanics that they copied will be outdated. Plus because of the long time between the games the aticipations will be high so it will be treated harshly for everly little bugs, mistakes and so on. This is what EA looks like in the past 5 years. They want to copy the new gameing trends and restart multiple develompents to do soo but they will be end up with games that are rushed and unfinished and riddiculed after their relise. It won't be rushed They are just getting hammered for their work place issues and released "Anthem" to 60 metacritic scores because the game was finished in 12 months. Could you imagine another "went into a room to cry" DA4 expose regarding it's development with a 70 metacritic score to match? No, they have to take time no only for getting DA4 right but because BioWare right now is leaky as a sieve so we will get constant updates from Schreier if the working crunch is awful which will essentially throw cold water on any enthusiasm people might be feeling for the game.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 9, 2019 18:11:45 GMT
Calm down. We haven't even see a single frame yet. If Assassin's Creed Odyssey can be considered a live service game then I'm fine with it. Wasn't Odyssey pretty widely panned for how it overextended the in-game grind if you didn't RMT for XP boosts? Well yes, but that's not my point. Like I said, "live service" games tend to have mp in there. Obviously, Odyssey does not have mp components. So, it has a loose definition.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 18:11:57 GMT
I liked the original idea, but my major problem is the fact that there’s the possibility of DA being an ‘Anthem with dragons’, although the article lead to believe it’s not necessarily the case.
I really hope that Anthem’s reception, combined with the success that some games without MP (or those with minimal presence, or without online modes at release, like AC:O, or RDR2) brings EA to understand that a game can focus on SP and still be very successful.
The most positive thing about the article is that the project restarted as ‘new’, and not counting the previous years for the development.
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Post by fredvdp on Apr 9, 2019 18:13:18 GMT
Calm down. We haven't even see a single frame yet. If Assassin's Creed Odyssey can be considered a live service game then I'm fine with it. Wasn't Odyssey pretty widely panned for how it overextended the in-game grind if you didn't RMT for XP boosts? I never experienced that myself. I played through the entire game and felt the XP gain was slightly faster than I needed it to be. But yeah, there was a bit of controversy. I think it's because they were sold as "time savers" or something like that.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 9, 2019 18:14:43 GMT
Here comes another trainwreck by the looks of it, almost five years they're still figuring what the game will even look like. What has Bioware turned into? Geez. I think that's likely one part of it, but based on the article, it sounds like this delay in the games vision was stifled because of EA mandating that all their games have live-service (in 2017). The original concept probably didn't have this in mind, and why the project had to be rebooted that same year. Another problem, that likely had an even bigger impact, was the Dragon Age team constantly having to be reassigned to another project (like Andromeda or Anthem), and that they didn't get enough opportunities to really focus on the game.
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Post by captnjoe on Apr 9, 2019 18:16:37 GMT
Sad, silly optimistic me, hoped that it would be good news, that the small team had carried on and laid most of the ground work. I think I would have liked to play a scaled down game sooner. To be honest, I replayed DA2 more times then I did DAI.
What I don't understand if they were reusing DAI resources, then why start again with Athem's. Oh that's right, "Live Service" Not a happy day.
Resetting the timer just means a longer wait. CD Projekt Red is promising two AAA games before DA4 is likely to come out. I wonder if the fan base will wait that long. Will there be anyone left to care.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 18:17:38 GMT
Also, while the scrapping of Joplin is due to Bioware’s inability to work in time for Anthem’s release, if DA4 will be focused a lot on MP will be due to EA, as it was stated by Jason on a reply on Twitter. At lease, it’s their decision to have it as a live service game.
And for this very reason I doubt Joplin would’ve been worked on and be released in that concept without additional MP elements, which the article hinted at.
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Post by Superhik on Apr 9, 2019 18:19:24 GMT
Kind of like the idea of playing as band of misfits/spies, city/politics drama, working behind the scenes. Sounds like a better version of Dragon Age 2, a bit. And Bioware, definitely, fucking definitely, needs to reduce scope/size and focus on characters, reactivity and depth...exactly what they were going for here. Not so sure about "systematic narrative mechanics", these usually lack sense of character. But damn it's a shame they killed this project...for what reason exactly? Hudson didn't like it? Doesn't fit into monetization/"GAAS" plan? Not a good sign, seems like the team had a strong vision and knew what mistakes to avoid.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 18:21:55 GMT
Sad, silly optimistic me, hoped that it would be good news, that the small team had carried on and laid most of the ground work. I think I would have liked to play a scaled down game sooner. To be honest, I replayed DA2 more times then I did DAI. What I don't understand if they were reusing DAI resources, then why start again with Athem's. Oh that's right, "Live Service" Not a happy day. Resetting the timer just means a longer wait. CD Projekt Red is promising two AAA games before DA4 is likely to come out. I wonder if the fan base will wait that long. Will there be anyone left to care. It depends on how good the game will turn out to be. Inquisition still left a mostly good impression overall, and they’d ride on that. On CDPR, I do think their second AAA game won’t be released until the end of 2021, but most likely 2022, given how common it is to delay games’ releases nowadays, so the two game will be released not too distant for each other (given that DA4 will be released in 2021-2022 most likely as well.) Which would put them in direct competition as they’ll be shown in similar timeframes.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 9, 2019 18:26:18 GMT
I liked the original idea, but my major problem is the fact that there’s the possibility of DA being an ‘Anthem with dragons’, although the article lead to believe it’s not necessarily the case. I really hope that Anthem’s reception, combined with the success that some games without MP (or those with minimal presence, or without online modes at release, like AC:O, or RDR2) brings EA to understand that a game can focus on SP and still be very successful. The most positive thing about the article is that the project restarted as ‘new’, and not counting the previous years for the development. You gotta read that part a little carefully my man: So its more that their budget is being reset. Not the release date. Unless we hear differently from EA/BioWare, that 2021/2022 launch is still on track.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 18:28:42 GMT
Please don't mourn any opportunity lost, because the chance for the game (or many other creative works) to look anywhere close to "how cool you think it might be based on super-vague ideas thrown around in a few sentences" is tiny anyway. Fair and I'll curtail my mournful activities to somewhere prior to rending my clothes and bathing in ash, but of the two broadly sketched DA4's (and acknowledging that the currently only existing one is subject to change, including subjectively positive change etc) Joplin simply sounded more my speed. Can we even talk about Morrison being 'broadly' sketched, when we heard virtually nothing concrete other than 'there will be some live services' (but we have no clue what they will be too)? I mean, keep in mind that Schreier himself underlined that we have no idea how the project looks like, including how much of Joplin lives in Morrison - what we know, however, is that games like this are hardly one person's vision and that Mike Laidlaw has underlined multiple times in the past that people mainly responsible for what DA will be (and have been since Trespasser) Weekes, Epler and Kading, who so far have been continuously on the project. I'd also like to point out that auxiliary materials, including recently released comic books (so, long after they had to be adjusted) still follow the spy/undercover work format, so this is probably the closest to what we have in terms of any viable clue about the narrative side, if not the gameplay one.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 9, 2019 18:34:39 GMT
I liked the original idea, but my major problem is the fact that there’s the possibility of DA being an ‘Anthem with dragons’, although the article lead to believe it’s not necessarily the case. I really hope that Anthem’s reception, combined with the success that some games without MP (or those with minimal presence, or without online modes at release, like AC:O, or RDR2) brings EA to understand that a game can focus on SP and still be very successful. The most positive thing about the article is that the project restarted as ‘new’, and not counting the previous years for the development. You gotta read that part a little carefully my man: So its more that their budget is being reset. Not the release date. Unless we hear differently from EA/BioWare, that 2021/2022 launch is still on track. Yeah, I was meaning mostly that. A release date in 2021-2022 still give them 4-5 years of dev time.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Apr 9, 2019 18:35:29 GMT
""Reading lots of feedback regarding Dragon Age, and I think you’ll be relieved to see what the team is working on. Story & character focused. Too early to talk details, but when we talk about ‘live’ it just means designing a game for continued storytelling after the main story.”""
If 'live service' means they extend the main storyline with a series of DLC, I can live with that, as long as they don't short the initial offering and it is as compelling as Dragon Age games have been in the past. The worrisome bit to me is the idea of using multiplayer to tie these add-ons together. I am allergic to multiplayer, both organized and PUG.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 9, 2019 18:38:10 GMT
I think the previous concept had sounded great. I theorized that attacking Solas might not be possible, and you would need to rely more on subterfuge to deal with him. Now we have ... well, I don’t know what we have. There is an action RPG that came out not long ago called Ashen where you have a protagonist and AI-controlled allies that can sometimes be played by real people. BioWare could do worse than ape that concept, as Ashen was fairly well-received. That said, I remain convinced this whole “games as a service” model is a cancer that will destroy this franchise. I will mourn its passing. If 'live service' means they extend the main storyline with a series of DLC, I can live with that, as long as they don't short the initial offering and it is as compelling as Dragon Age games have been in the past It likely does not mean extending the storyline with DLC, as the article argues post-game DLC ain’t profitable.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 9, 2019 18:39:50 GMT
So the article is hillarious and the reaction is typical. I kind of called it though.
This is basically just a regurgitation on his speculation from...last year. And to his credit he makes it clear its just speculation... And that things will change... And that maybe *we* can change them. *snort*. I mean guys at this point you have to remember that this idea was likely pitched before they began serious production, when they were still finishing Anthem.
Though not amused at having to wait three more years.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 18:42:45 GMT
I liked the original idea, but my major problem is the fact that there’s the possibility of DA being an ‘Anthem with dragons’, although the article lead to believe it’s not necessarily the case. I really hope that Anthem’s reception, combined with the success that some games without MP (or those with minimal presence, or without online modes at release, like AC:O, or RDR2) brings EA to understand that a game can focus on SP and still be very successful. The most positive thing about the article is that the project restarted as ‘new’, and not counting the previous years for the development. You gotta read that part a little carefully my man: So its more that their budget is being reset. Not the release date. Unless we hear differently from EA/BioWare, that 2021/2022 launch is still on track. That also depends how much of the previous project was cannibalized by the current one. If it's only the budget part that's 'from the scratch' that means we don't really know how much the project itself is made from the scratch. Either way, the core team - that was virtually always on DA - had about 1,5 year already to reassess and re-adjust the project or build new prototypes.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 9, 2019 18:56:26 GMT
No doubt they expected some fallout over Joplin info leaking out. I expect bioware will be relieved that their current devs didn’t leak like a sieve on the current da construct. I’m not happy about what this live service reboot could end up resembling but we’ll have to wait till they are ready to actually deliver us the bitter pill themselves.
i wonder if casey’s Comments on anthem codebase mean it was years wasted using inquisition as a base.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 9, 2019 18:56:57 GMT
Not too much new info there. SWTOR is a fantastic game from story and RPG perspective - and it can be played completely solo. Now I don't think DA4 is going to be like that - but if it was then it's not so bad. "Anthem with Dragons" on the other hand sounds horrible and disgusting. That would kill the franchise for me. What I hate the most is the waiting. It's going to be like almost 10 years between DAI and this new game... and sounds like EA is to blame for that.
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