Little Bengel
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Partying like it's 1999
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 14, 2019 17:52:46 GMT
I will read the article, but this here is alarming. They've rebooted Dragon Age to have the same core as Anthem so they can similarly patch their way out of problems after release, but now you're telling me that it doesn't even work IN Anthem? So far. But there's more going on than just patching and live service -- again, explained in the Anthem article. There's an Edmonton vs. Austin dynamic. Edmonton put all the bugs in, Austin is now stuck with trying to fix them. All along, Austin tried to tell Edmonton that the things they were doing weren't going to work well in a multiplayer online game, but they were ignored. So now Austin is stuck with all those mistakes, on top of not knowing how the game was put together in the first place. Austin is learning as they go, and making mistakes along the way. Hopefully, they won't make the same culture clash mistake with DA4. Either the same team will stick with it after launch, or they'll bring Austin in from from Day 1 and listen to them, if Austin is going to be stuck with the live service tail of the game. I think I might be mistaken somewhere, but I believe the culture clash dynamic was mostly the fault of the Anthem team's leadership? I don't think DA4's leads are the same (for the most part), and after this story, I'd be very surprised if they made the same mistakes again.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 14, 2019 17:57:02 GMT
I think I might be mistaken somewhere, but I believe the culture clash dynamic was mostly the fault of the Anthem team's leadership? No doubt it started from the top, but these sorts of things have a corrosive effect throughout the organization. There's probably an anniversary effect also: the more years you've been a veteran of Bioware Edmonton, the more of a snob you are going to be towards other studios.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 14, 2019 17:58:39 GMT
Comments like this make me question if I should give anthem a shot when they release their next chunk of story in may. I mean, it is just Andromeda level bad? I played Andromeda once, may even get a 2nd play out of it, so I can handle that level of "bad". And why were they ignoring them? did they think that with the live service built in they could patch their way out of a bad spot? You should read the whole article, particularly since there's quite a lot about the problems at Bioware as a whole that will have an impact on DA4, as it is about problems with Anthem specifically. But the quick answer is that they were ignored because leadership either thought it was too late to fix it -- some fixes would require months of rework -- or they simply didn't believe it was going to be a problem, like the lack of a social hub where people could see each other's suits. And yes, they did put a lot of faith in the ability of the live service to patch their way out. So far, that hasn't proven to be true. Every patch introduces new and sometimes worse problems. bsn.boards.net/thread/17491/kotaku-biowares-anthem-went-wrong that's hardly unique to LS games though. It's quite the problem with RPGs in general it seems where patches break something else. DAI, Skyrim, and TW3 all had new problems introuduced with patches. In the case of the last two it broke their respective games. In the case of TW they never fixed it. Granted that is one of the reasons i do fear LS games, that the industry will be pressured content via patches that just breaks stuff... On the flip side you do have LS games that are now much better then at launch because of player feedback and patches. (Battlefront 2)
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Post by Lazarillo on Apr 14, 2019 18:10:28 GMT
It's quite the problem with RPGs in general it seems where patches break something else. DAI, Skyrim, and TW3 all had new problems introuduced with patches. In the case of the last two it broke their respective games. In the case of TW they never fixed it. This is the sort of thing that always makes me sideways-glance at statements about how live-service games are an improvement over the old model where "once a game was released, you were stuck with any bugs or glitches and they couldn't be fixed!"...because I feel like those games weren't any more buggy than current ones (I half feel like they might have been less so, but that may, admittedly, just be nostalgia goggles), but it seems like patches are just as likely to mess things up as fix them anyway.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Apr 14, 2019 18:15:07 GMT
In the case of TW they never fixed it. Offtopic but....what patch broke W3, and how? Seemed to work fine when I played it.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 14, 2019 18:16:26 GMT
It's quite the problem with RPGs in general it seems where patches break something else. DAI, Skyrim, and TW3 all had new problems introuduced with patches. In the case of the last two it broke their respective games. In the case of TW they never fixed it. This is the sort of thing that always makes me sideways-glance at statements about how live-service games are an improvement over the old model where "once a game was released, you were stuck with any bugs or glitches and they couldn't be fixed!"...because I feel like those games weren't any more buggy than current ones (I half feel like they might have been less so, but that may, admittedly, just be nostalgia goggles), but it seems like patches are just as likely to mess things up as fix them anyway. Well the IDEA behind LS and patches is to fix more then bugs but make make active improvements, add more features, even quests. All this can be good. But it puts more complexity on patches, which means more complex codes, which means more can break.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 14, 2019 18:27:26 GMT
In the case of TW they never fixed it. Offtopic but....what patch broke W3, and how? Seemed to work fine when I played it. Don't know the patch but one side quest was unfinishable and the sound effects of certain scenes and mystical creature dialogue is entirely removed. It is entirely destructive to immersion when one of the coolest scenes in gaming history, the Crones of crookback bog, has been reduced to just the sound of a fly buzzing around.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 14, 2019 19:42:04 GMT
Sure they do. They will if they think it will make them money. Licensed products that aren't GoldenEye 1997 are a great example. Putting out a bad product to make money now damages the relationship with the consumer base, and means less money LATER. Companies certainly understand that, if you do. Releasing a product you don't think people will like is an extremely bad idea for any genuine company with ambitions of long-term success. That's Business 101. It's an overly simplistic view of the business world that doesn't match reality. Especially in the games industry. Recall that people forget ultimately forgettable, unspectacular titles, and brand loyalty is no longer as big a thing as it once was.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 14, 2019 19:54:52 GMT
So if the Inquisitor makes an appearance in the next game, would your Inquisitor still have his/her left arm? Cory was canon even if you didn't play Legacy, so I'd assume no More importantly, Hawke's release of Cory was canon. That's the part that bothered me. They should have had it such that Cory was released by Carver/Bethany if the Champion didn't do it.
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melbella
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Post by melbella on Apr 14, 2019 20:09:38 GMT
They should have had it such that Cory was released by Carver/Bethany if the Champion didn't do it.
That technically could work since Legacy is doable in Act 1. However, it's possible both siblings are dead by the end of Act 1 and it seems very unlikely they would have gone on such an adventure in Act 1 without Hawke along. Also, if either sibling became a Warden, it wouldn't work because their blood would be tainted.
Given how many fights and scraps Hawke gets into, it wouldn't be too farfetched to just have someone steal the blood and use that to open the prison.
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melbella
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Post by melbella on Apr 15, 2019 2:40:19 GMT
Don't know the patch but one side quest was unfinishable and the sound effects of certain scenes and mystical creature dialogue is entirely removed. It is entirely destructive to immersion when one of the coolest scenes in gaming history, the Crones of crookback bog, has been reduced to just the sound of a fly buzzing around. I wouldn't mind not having to listen to the Crones, actually. But, while annoying, I certainly wouldn't consider that game-breaking. To me, game-breaking means you can't play the game as a result of the problem, not that you can't enjoy it as much as you'd like.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 15, 2019 8:23:50 GMT
They should have had it such that Cory was released by Carver/Bethany if the Champion didn't do it.
That technically could work since Legacy is doable in Act 1. However, it's possible both siblings are dead by the end of Act 1 and it seems very unlikely they would have gone on such an adventure in Act 1 without Hawke along.
Less unlikely than Hawke doing it when the player actively chose not to. While Hawke can't do Legacy until Act I, I see no reason why Carver/Bethany couldn't do it sometime before Act I. There's lots of time skipped after the initial arrival in Kirkwall but before the start of Act I. That detail is only known to be true if Hawke participates. If Hawke doesn't go, that information never becomes known to the player. That's certainly better than retconning Hawke's participation.
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