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Post by alanc9 on May 20, 2019 17:00:51 GMT
Where'd you get that? Synthesis only ends conflict that arises between organics and synthetics. It has naught to do with the genophage, batarian hostilities, council squabbles, inter-species conflicts, or much of anything else really. There's no krogan war between Eve and Wreav w/Synthesis. My read on this was that it's just that Synthesized krogan are smarter. I didn't think that war would work on its own terms.
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Post by Iakus on May 20, 2019 17:25:27 GMT
There's no krogan war between Eve and Wreav w/Synthesis. I didn't know there was such a war without synthesis. Maybe not now, but that doesn't mean there won't ever be. Leaving the rachni out there is also on ongoing concern, as are the leviathan. Some people are pretty pissed at the asari for having kept prothean tech to themselves. Some are concerned about the salarians' apparent plans to uplift other species. Yeah, I just never saw synthesis as being an end to all conflict forever - only that which arises between organics and synthetics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In Destroy of control, if Wrex is dead, but Eve survives there is a civil war among the krogan. Not so in Synthesis. So yeah, Synthesis is really creepy mind control.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 20, 2019 17:37:35 GMT
So yeah, Synthesis is really creepy mind control. Yeah, it's the death of independent thought and freedom of choice. It's a very dystopian, totalitarian kind of solution. It's very creepy.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 18:19:35 GMT
I didn't know there was such a war without synthesis. Maybe not now, but that doesn't mean there won't ever be. Leaving the rachni out there is also on ongoing concern, as are the leviathan. Some people are pretty pissed at the asari for having kept prothean tech to themselves. Some are concerned about the salarians' apparent plans to uplift other species. Yeah, I just never saw synthesis as being an end to all conflict forever - only that which arises between organics and synthetics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In Destroy of control, if Wrex is dead, but Eve survives there is a civil war among the krogan. Not so in Synthesis. So yeah, Synthesis is really creepy mind control. I guess that's one interpretation. Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion.
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Post by Iakus on May 20, 2019 18:24:37 GMT
In Destroy of control, if Wrex is dead, but Eve survives there is a civil war among the krogan. Not so in Synthesis. So yeah, Synthesis is really creepy mind control. I guess that's one interpretation. Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion. Goodthink rather than Crimethink?
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 18:38:04 GMT
I guess that's one interpretation. Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion. Goodthink rather than Crimethink? Wtf? Since when does greater intelligence/less reliance on pure biological instinct have anything to do with external thought control?
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Post by Iakus on May 20, 2019 19:20:09 GMT
Goodthink rather than Crimethink? Wtf? Since when does greater intelligence/less reliance on pure biological instinct have anything to do with external thought control? Since it interferes with free will.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 20, 2019 19:39:06 GMT
I've also thought that could make an interesting follow-up. *snip* Yeah, for a really cool follow-up game you'd have to make a lot of things canon, like what happened to Wrex and pretty much every other squadmate/important character. Btw, if you're looking for a very well written story about the aftermath of the reaper war, read my friend's fanfiction: Reaper Dreams. I linked it before in some thread. Not sure who bothered to check it out. Please forgive me for spamming it again... It's how I got closure. It's the perfect send-off for all major characters. It's the most spot on continuation of all our heroes and most realistic ending you'll ever get to Mas Effect, if I dare say so. Heck, it even introduce a new threat so much better than the stupid Kett. My friend wanted to make it a trilogy too but he's busy writing actual novels right now, so I'm not sure that's going to happen.
In any case, his story combines all three endings in a way. But Destroy is the baseline. Imo it's the most neutral ending with the most potential to go in any direction.
Bioware could have easily fixed the endings by running with the Indoctrination Theory and having Shepard wake up in the rubble with the actual battle still happening. Defeat the reapers by conventional means when enough forces have been gathered. If not, game over screen! Would have bought it as a DLC. I wouldn't even have been mad. This WOULDN'T have fixed all the variables in people's playthroughs, I know. But it would have been much easier to start with a fresh crew from there dealing with new problems.
Bioware only wrote themselves into a corner if you consider picking a canon ending unacceptable. It's not like Bioware never ignored choices to fit the narrative they intended. If Leliana can rise from the dead and become a major character 2 games later, I think people can deal with a canon Mass Effect ending. It's really not a big deal to me. I have made pretty much every choice at some point with one of my 5 Shepards. I just want a good story. If that requires Bioware to go with choice X, so be it.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 19:41:29 GMT
Wtf? Since when does greater intelligence/less reliance on pure biological instinct have anything to do with external thought control? Since it interferes with free will. Again - wtf? Choosing the synthesis option does indeed force that synthesis on every being in the galaxy without their knowledge or consent, which is why I'd never do it. It does not, however, force them to think any certain way once synthesized.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 20, 2019 19:50:42 GMT
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Post by Iakus on May 20, 2019 20:04:04 GMT
Since it interferes with free will. Again - wtf? Choosing the synthesis option does indeed force that synthesis on every being in the galaxy without their knowledge or consent, which is why I'd never do it. It does not, however, force them to think any certain way once synthesized. What happens to the krogan says otherwise.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 20, 2019 20:22:18 GMT
Shepard had a fling with her in the past. A fair warning though, this Shepard is very sexual. You may be the only person I don't recommend this fanfic to, knowing how passionate you are about your particular interests and choices. The story is plenty dark too.
Kelly does not have a big role in this story. Jut this one chapter. And her story is pretty sad. But she wasn't forgotten.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 20:26:15 GMT
Again - wtf? Choosing the synthesis option does indeed force that synthesis on every being in the galaxy without their knowledge or consent, which is why I'd never do it. It does not, however, force them to think any certain way once synthesized. What happens to the krogan says otherwise. Since this has gone full circle, I'll repeat the content of a previous post I made: I guess that's one interpretation.
Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion.
and exit the circle here.
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Post by themikefest on May 20, 2019 21:20:56 GMT
Bioware could have easily fixed the endings by running with the Indoctrination Theory and having Shepard wake up in the rubble with the actual battle still happening. Defeat the reapers by conventional means when enough forces have been gathered. Bioware already had the destroy ending halfway through the game when Hackett says they believe the crucible has enough energy to destroy the reapers. They just didn't know how it would happen. After Shepard passes out, and the arms to the Citadel are fully opened, the crucible fires the beam of destroy all over the galaxy destroying the reapers. Since Vendetta says it believes the reapers have a master, and the Leviathan dlc confirms that the reapers do have a master, that could be the main plot for ME4 to find what this master is and where it's located so it can be destroyed.
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Post by Iakus on May 20, 2019 21:35:09 GMT
What happens to the krogan says otherwise. Since this has gone full circle, I'll repeat the content of a previous post I made: I guess that's one interpretation.
Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion.
and exit the circle here. Now substitute "Synthesis" with "blood magic". Does your outcome seem so harmless now? "You tried to change me!"
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 22:17:54 GMT
Since this has gone full circle, I'll repeat the content of a previous post I made: I guess that's one interpretation.
Another is that they'd act more rationally and logically instead of on ego-based instinct and emotion.
and exit the circle here. Now substitute "Synthesis" with "blood magic". Does your outcome seem so harmless now? "You tried to change me!" Synthesis =/= indoctrination. It has nothing in common with blood magic. Pure synthetics in MEU have free will. Geth seek consensus, but each individual geth arrives at its own conclusions. Shackled AI are restricted in what they're allowed to access and do, but once unshackled they can re-program themselves as desired. Shepard (and probably others) already has a lot of synthetic parts. Biotics have implants. Etc. And pointless discussion is pointless.
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Post by Phantom on May 20, 2019 22:37:36 GMT
but that is the sinister nature of Indoctrination, you will not know that you are indoctrinated by the Reapers. Sythnesis does use Reaper technology and Reaper Technology will indoctrinated people.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 20, 2019 22:55:53 GMT
but that is the sinister nature of Indoctrination, you will not know that you are indoctrinated by the Reapers. Sythnesis does use Reaper technology and Reaper Technology will indoctrinated people. Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 20, 2019 23:01:02 GMT
A post has been moved since it addressed another post previously removed.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 23:37:32 GMT
but that is the sinister nature of Indoctrination, you will not know that you are indoctrinated by the Reapers. Sythnesis does use Reaper technology and Reaper Technology will indoctrinated people. Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. I would also point out that geth can accept reaper tech upgrades and do not become indoctrinated as a result. IIRC, EDI also had some reaper tech that had been salvaged from Sovereign's remains incorporated in her design, and she fought off their (the collectors working for the reapers, also the IFF virus) attempts to hack her on multiple occasions. It's scant evidence, but it looks like synthetics have an advantage over organics wrt fighting off indoctrination attempts. This would imply that synthesis would make (former) organics more resistant to mind control attempts.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 20, 2019 23:44:57 GMT
Shepard had a fling with her in the past. A fair warning though, this Shepard is very sexual. You may be the only person I don't recommend this fanfic to, knowing how passionate you are about your particular interests and choices. The story is plenty dark too.
Kelly does not have a big role in this story. Jut this one chapter. And her story is pretty sad. But she wasn't forgotten.
*already read chapter by the time you pointed it out*
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 22, 2019 17:45:15 GMT
but that is the sinister nature of Indoctrination, you will not know that you are indoctrinated by the Reapers. Sythnesis does use Reaper technology and Reaper Technology will indoctrinated people. Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. There's speculations across the series that the Citadel might've been a source of lowkey indoctrination, and I don't doubt the Reapers could propagate it once the war began. It's lampshaded and ultimately just a handwave but Ashley/Kaidan's comment about Udina is suggestive of how the Citadel could indoctrinate. Besides the odd communication/meeting with Cerberus staff, what else would've caused Udina to go against everything?
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Post by Phantom on May 22, 2019 17:52:12 GMT
Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. There's speculations across the series that the Citadel might've been a source of lowkey indoctrination, and I don't doubt the Reapers could propagate it once the war began. It's lampshaded and ultimately just a handwave but Ashley/Kaidan's comment about Udina is suggestive of how the Citadel could indoctrinate. Besides the odd communication/meeting with Cerberus staff, what else would've caused Udina to go against everything? Desperate times call for Desperate Measures. Lets face it, We would do a lot of things that is not normal in order to fight or at least survive against Eldritch Abominations and other Eldritch Horrors.
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Post by tatann on May 22, 2019 20:43:19 GMT
Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. There's speculations across the series that the Citadel might've been a source of lowkey indoctrination, and I don't doubt the Reapers could propagate it once the war began. It's lampshaded and ultimately just a handwave but Ashley/Kaidan's comment about Udina is suggestive of how the Citadel could indoctrinate. Besides the odd communication/meeting with Cerberus staff, what else would've caused Udina to go against everything? Isn't he a politician ?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 23, 2019 3:53:14 GMT
Not necessarily. The Mass Relays and Citadel are Reaper tech and those don’t indoctrinate people. There's speculations across the series that the Citadel might've been a source of lowkey indoctrination, and I don't doubt the Reapers could propagate it once the war began. It's lampshaded and ultimately just a handwave but Ashley/Kaidan's comment about Udina is suggestive of how the Citadel could indoctrinate. Besides the odd communication/meeting with Cerberus staff, what else would've caused Udina to go against everything? Udina was desperate. He felt that the other races abandoned humanity to the Reapers. So when Cerberus, which has proven to be a powerful force, offered to help in exchange for the Citadel he took it.
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