Little Bengel
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 14, 2019 17:55:39 GMT
It was a story on rails. I wouldn't describe it as "hugely reactive" … I thought that was about the "new" friends/rivals mechanic. Compared to DAO, that could be considered "hugely" more reactive. I put "new" in quotes, because the connection to ME1 paragon/renegade can't be denied. It'd be cool if they could find some way to merge the Friendship/Rivalry and Approval systems together for DA4. Something that measures the alignment between your ideals and your companions' and your relationship differently. I'm more partial to the Friendship/Rivalry system myself; maybe they could build up from there.
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Post by dragontartare on Apr 14, 2019 19:24:08 GMT
I mean, to be fair, Luke Barrett also liked a pee joke I made, so maybe he just recognises genius when he sees it. It would be funny if he was going around upvoting random contradictory posts just to see what kind of crazy things we would try to infer from that.
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 14, 2019 19:39:28 GMT
I mean, to be fair, Luke Barrett also liked a pee joke I made, so maybe he just recognises genius when he sees it. It would be funny if he was going around upvoting random contradictory posts just to see what kind of crazy things we would try to infer from that. No man should have that much power...
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Post by duckley on Apr 14, 2019 20:12:45 GMT
What I want to know is what we can infer about release dates. I was really hoping for 2020 - at the latest... :)but are we now looking at 2021 or beyond? Say it ain't so... If Joplin hadn't been canceled, a 2020 release date wouldn't be too rushed, I think. Given that Morrison's the current iteration, and that its development began in late 2017, I would have easily put the release date beyond 2021. Given that they're building on Anthem's code instead of starting over completely, Fall 2021/Winter 2022 doesn't sound like a bad guess at all. Ouch - well someone better produce a few decent rpg's soon - cant keep playing The Witcher and Inquisition waiting until 2022....
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Post by dragontartare on Apr 14, 2019 20:30:50 GMT
a game's 'codebase', in essence, is all the code made for that particular game, including systems such as terrain generation, movement/traversal, saving games, the works. However, all that means is that it allows you to design these mechanics (especially those that have an immediate impact on gameplay); the same codebase for player movement can generate entirely different movement mechanics (at 6:33, the video even shows several movement variables in base UE4 that can drastically change such mechanics on their own), and in DA4's case, all it means is that the developers can invest more resources in designing new game-specific mechanics rather than build the necessary architecture from scratch (which is an issue that plagued DA:I's, ME:A's and Anthem's development cycles). Can someone explain something to me? I keep seeing quotes like this one, claiming that DA4 using Anthem's code base is a good thing because it will save time. That creating things like a save system from scratch caused trouble for MEA and Anthem. So why couldn't MEA and Anthem use DAI's code base instead of creating everything from scratch? There were some awkward things about DAI, sure (the tactical camera zoom level, platforming issues when not using a mount) but for the most part things worked just fine. Surely it would have been easier to tweak just those problematic systems for MEA and Anthem rather than starting all over again, right?
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Little Bengel
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 14, 2019 20:41:04 GMT
a game's 'codebase', in essence, is all the code made for that particular game, including systems such as terrain generation, movement/traversal, saving games, the works. However, all that means is that it allows you to design these mechanics (especially those that have an immediate impact on gameplay); the same codebase for player movement can generate entirely different movement mechanics (at 6:33, the video even shows several movement variables in base UE4 that can drastically change such mechanics on their own), and in DA4's case, all it means is that the developers can invest more resources in designing new game-specific mechanics rather than build the necessary architecture from scratch (which is an issue that plagued DA:I's, ME:A's and Anthem's development cycles). Can someone explain something to me? I keep seeing quotes like this one, claiming that DA4 using Anthem's code base is a good thing because it will save time. That creating things like a save system from scratch caused trouble for MEA and Anthem. So why couldn't MEA and Anthem use DAI's code base instead of creating everything from scratch? There were some awkward things about DAI, sure (the tactical camera zoom level, platforming issues when not using a mount) but for the most part things worked just fine. Surely it would have been easier to tweak just those problematic systems for MEA and Anthem rather than starting all over again, right? It was the studio's previous development strategy, which bit them in the ass later, if this paragraph is any indication: One big change that’s already been enacted at BioWare is a new technology strategy. Developers still at the studio say that under Casey Hudson, rather than start from scratch yet again, the next Dragon Age will be built on Anthem’s codebase.
However, consider as well that development for both MEA and Anthem began in late 2012, unless I'm mistaken. At that time, the Frostbite architecture for DA:I probably wasn't even close to ready yet.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 14, 2019 20:59:21 GMT
I mean, to be fair, Luke Barrett also liked a pee joke I made, so maybe he just recognises genius when he sees it. I'm quite sure whoever from Bioware visits this forum that they alternate between rolling eyes out their eye sockets and barks of mad laughter all throughout the experience
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Post by biggydx on Apr 14, 2019 23:48:13 GMT
Can someone explain something to me? I keep seeing quotes like this one, claiming that DA4 using Anthem's code base is a good thing because it will save time. That creating things like a save system from scratch caused trouble for MEA and Anthem. So why couldn't MEA and Anthem use DAI's code base instead of creating everything from scratch? There were some awkward things about DAI, sure (the tactical camera zoom level, platforming issues when not using a mount) but for the most part things worked just fine. Surely it would have been easier to tweak just those problematic systems for MEA and Anthem rather than starting all over again, right? It was the studio's previous development strategy, which bit them in the ass later, if this paragraph is any indication: One big change that’s already been enacted at BioWare is a new technology strategy. Developers still at the studio say that under Casey Hudson, rather than start from scratch yet again, the next Dragon Age will be built on Anthem’s codebase.
However, consider as well that development for both MEA and Anthem began in late 2012, unless I'm mistaken. At that time, the Frostbite architecture for DA:I probably wasn't even close to ready yet. There's also the fact that the code base for Inquisition is likely pretty old by this point, and probably has a lot of "baggage" from having to be made on last-gen consoles as well.
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Post by phoray on Apr 15, 2019 2:46:19 GMT
developers were pulled from the project to help finalize ME: Andromeda, and soon after, Anthem. The latter also led to Joplin's cancellation in late 2017, I'm confused, this is implying that Joplin was cancelled BECAUSE they were pulled over to Anthem after already being pulled for Andromeda? ather than build the necessary architecture from scratch They're going to have to build the Character Creator from scratch! Leaving being the best Character Creator I've ever gotten to use sans head hair! I don't know if this is the worst thing that could happen from Anthem's Codebase if there is yet something worse hiding in the wings
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 15, 2019 2:47:36 GMT
developers were pulled from the project to help finalize ME: Andromeda, and soon after, Anthem. The latter also led to Joplin's cancellation in late 2017, I'm confused, this is implying that Joplin was cancelled BECAUSE they were pulled over to Anthem after already being pulled for Andromeda? ather than build the necessary architecture from scratch They're going to have to build the Character Creator from scratch! Leaving being the best Character Creator I've ever gotten to use sans head hair! I don't know if this is the worst thing that could happen from Anthem's Codebase if there is yet something worse hiding in the wings If it means I can make dudes that look like the Anthem NPCs, I'm all for it.
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Post by phoray on Apr 15, 2019 2:49:22 GMT
If it means I can make dudes that look like the Anthem NPCs, I'm all for it. Didn't even touch the hype of this game, no idea what anyone looks like. But from the Kotaku article, all those faces were motion captured and therefore irrelevant to a Create your own Character system.
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Post by Kymira on Apr 15, 2019 4:32:35 GMT
If it means I can make dudes that look like the Anthem NPCs, I'm all for it. Didn't even touch the hype of this game, no idea what anyone looks like. But from the Kotaku article, all those faces were motion captured and therefore irrelevant to a Create your own Character system. Anthem CC has some good faces to choose from. Though I know it's "select a face" instead of create your own look type deal. Still, a good improvement on hairstyles lol
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Little Bengel
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 15, 2019 9:45:31 GMT
They're going to have to build the Character Creator from scratch! Leaving being the best Character Creator I've ever gotten to use sans head hair! I don't know if this is the worst thing that could happen from Anthem's Codebase if there is yet something worse hiding in the wings If it means I can make dudes that look like the Anthem NPCs, I'm all for it. I mean, Anthem has some pretty undeniable flaws, but they have the best-looking faces in any BioWare game. If they allow us to recreate faces like that in detail in DA4, then screw DA:I's CC. But seriously now: speaking as a programming newbie/ignoramus/hillbilly, what's stopping them from at least porting DA:I's CC over to DA4?
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 15, 2019 16:48:27 GMT
DA4 is MP....
A Bio ad asks for a Tech Director with MP experience. Responsibility? Get a team together to build the MP elements.
I'm flummoxed. EA approved Respawn to develop a SP game called Star Wars: Fallen order with no MTX and no Loot Boxes. No microtransactions. No loot boxes. And no, we won’t be adding them. A single-player Star Wars story for those of you who are ready to become a Jedi. t.co/kTheWVBjJc — EA Star Wars (@eastarwars) April 13, 2019
So why is Bio going into a different direction?
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Little Bengel
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 15, 2019 17:31:09 GMT
DA4 is MP....
A Bio ad asks for a Tech Director with MP experience. Responsibility? Get a team together to build the MP elements.
I'm flummoxed. EA approved Respawn to develop a SP game called Star Wars: Fallen order with no MTX and no Loot Boxes. No microtransactions. No loot boxes. And no, we won’t be adding them. A single-player Star Wars story for those of you who are ready to become a Jedi. t.co/kTheWVBjJc — EA Star Wars (@eastarwars) April 13, 2019
So why is Bio going into a different direction?
...I don't think anyone denies the fact that DA4 will have multiplayer. Not when BW's previous 4 games all had MP in some form. The true crux of the question is, what shape will the MP elements take for DA4? As for Respawn and Fallen Order, they must have been developing the game since, at least, 2014, which was way before they became an official subsidiary of EA in December 2017. Plus, the success that Apex Legends has been having probably gives them some leeway to develop a purely SP game. BioWare doesn't have that luxury, especially after Anthem's reception. So yeah, I'd be more surprised if DA4 didn't have an MP mode...
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Post by leadintea on Apr 15, 2019 18:02:57 GMT
Didn't even touch the hype of this game, no idea what anyone looks like. But from the Kotaku article, all those faces were motion captured and therefore irrelevant to a Create your own Character system. Anthem CC has some good faces to choose from. Though I know it's "select a face" instead of create your own look type deal. Still, a good improvement on hairstyles lol I'm hoping that we'll be able to get longer hairstyles in DA4, but since they're still using Frostbite...
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Post by phoray on Apr 15, 2019 18:44:00 GMT
the moment it's someone else's creation, I am way less interested. I don't take screen shots of fixed protagonist games to keep for memories or to share with others.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 15, 2019 18:49:14 GMT
DA4 is MP....
A Bio ad asks for a Tech Director with MP experience. Responsibility? Get a team together to build the MP elements.
I'm flummoxed. EA approved Respawn to develop a SP game called Star Wars: Fallen order with no MTX and no Loot Boxes. No microtransactions. No loot boxes. And no, we won’t be adding them. A single-player Star Wars story for those of you who are ready to become a Jedi. t.co/kTheWVBjJc — EA Star Wars (@eastarwars) April 13, 2019
So why is Bio going into a different direction?
Every BioWare game since ME3 has had multiplayer element. DA4 will not be entirely MP but it have an MP included...it's not like they are keeping that a secret and it really shouldn't be a suprise. As for Respawn's game, EA doesn't need them to have a Multiplayer since they have Battlefront II for which they are still producing content for 1 1/2 years later. EA needs a "Star Wars" game to come out when "Episode IX" drops and they are trying to get it ready as quickly as possible, hence why it is a fixed protag, no character creator, likely on rails...adding MP to game in a franchise which you already own the licence and already have the MP for seems like a it will just cost you time and only cannibalize your own game's MP.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 15, 2019 19:57:57 GMT
As for Respawn's game, EA doesn't need them to have a Multiplayer since they have Battlefront II for which they are still producing content for 1 1/2 years later. Though there may be some truth to this, couldn't the same also be said for why BioWare Edmonton can't make purely singleplayer only titles? Considering that BioWare Austin is their online-focused studio, and that they already have SW:TOR and - soon - Anthem under their wings, shouldn't EA recognize that the Edmonton studio should be allowed to make SP titles?
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 15, 2019 20:09:37 GMT
As for Respawn's game, EA doesn't need them to have a Multiplayer since they have Battlefront II for which they are still producing content for 1 1/2 years later. Though there may be some truth to this, couldn't the same also be said for why BioWare Edmonton can't make purely singleplayer only titles? Considering that BioWare Austin is their online-focused studio, and that they already have SW:TOR and - soon - Anthem under their wings, shouldn't EA recognize that the Edmonton studio should be allowed to make SP titles? Have you considered that they have always liked multiplayer and would try and implement it wherever they could? When KOTOR didn't have multiplayer old BW fans made a stink about it because it *didn't* have multiplayer, unlike many of their previous (big, single-player) releases. Heck, their first title in '96 had multiplayer.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 15, 2019 20:26:54 GMT
Though there may be some truth to this, couldn't the same also be said for why BioWare Edmonton can't make purely singleplayer only titles? Considering that BioWare Austin is their online-focused studio, and that they already have SW:TOR and - soon - Anthem under their wings, shouldn't EA recognize that the Edmonton studio should be allowed to make SP titles? Have you considered that they have always liked multiplayer and would try and implement it wherever they could? When KOTOR didn't have multiplayer old BW fans made a stink about it because it *didn't* have multiplayer, unlike many of their previous (big, single-player) releases. Heck, their first title in '96 had multiplayer. Considering that EA has mandated that all their games include online elements (multiplayer being one of them), I don't think its as cut and dry to say that they [BioWare] inherently want to include such elements in all their titles. While I can agree that have a storied history with including online-type elements in their games, there's some chance that the next DA game (the Joplin version) was never meant to have a multiplayer component. Since Dragon Age multiplayer wasn't that well received upon Inquisitions release, it possible that the studio may have wanted to drop it for a more singleplayer-focused experience; during development of Joplin. With EA wanting the the next DA game to incorporate live elements, that largely pushes them towards needing to incorporate more multiplayer/online elements into the game. While I personally believe the game will end up having online-only elements for singleplayer, if that turns out to be the case it'll likely upset a number of fans. If BioWare is the only one deciding if their games have multiplayer/online elements in them, then that is what it is and I hope they at least make them functional, worthwhile additions to the game; as I felt ME3 MP was. However, as a subsidiary of EA, they're bound by a number of executive policy decisions that shape the way they develop their games. Yes, EA has to make money with their titles, but to what degree does that affect BioWare's developmental process? Based on Schreiers reporting, and Mike Gambles comments on Twitter, its a "soft" reboot of the next Dragon Age game for live service elements sake.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 15, 2019 20:34:05 GMT
As for Respawn's game, EA doesn't need them to have a Multiplayer since they have Battlefront II for which they are still producing content for 1 1/2 years later. Though there may be some truth to this, couldn't the same also be said for why BioWare Edmonton can't make purely singleplayer only titles? Considering that BioWare Austin is their online-focused studio, and that they already have SW:TOR and - soon - Anthem under their wings, shouldn't EA recognize that the Edmonton studio should be allowed to make SP titles? I'm sure EA knows BioWare can make single player games successfully but I think you have to consider a couple of things: - EA has been heavily criticized of it's handling of the "Star Wars" license as it has only produced two games to this point, both with controversy. The first "Battlefront" was considered a rush job with no campaign and DLC tied to an expensive season pass while Battlefront II had the MTX controversy. EA was not going to F this up by trying to add to the "revenue tail" with loot boxes and MP because they've been there, done that. - With the Kotaku articles, EA has been criticized for not only insisting MP and monetization in all their franchises but for Patrick Soderlund's insistence on their studios using Frostbite. So, what is the emphasis of the marketing - "No MP, No Lootboxes, Unreal Engine! No MTXs now and in the future!". It ticks all the "pro-gamer" boxes that EA has been criticized for in the past while in reality they give up nothing in that regard since their other franchises are loaded with MP and MTX. - "Mass Effect" and "Dragon Age", as much as I love both of them, are not "Star Wars". If there was a franchise you can feel safe publishing as a single player game and expect 10 million copies sold it's "Star Wars" but EA needs to not screw this up themselves. That means it has to developed on time and delivered November 15, 2019 fully baked, that means no time spent on MP development and no trying to get Respawn to adopt the thorny Frostbite engine. Personally, I am hoping EA is looking at all the praise and prestige being heaped on "God of War" and thinking to itself "you know, I have a studio in-house known for their single player games...maybe we should see what they can do". Honestly, for all this talk about "remastering" or "remaking" the "Mass Effect trilogy", I am surprised EA hasn't tasked BioWare with remaking the first "KOTOR"...talk about a game that would generate mad hype, especially if EA stated "No MP, No MTX, just the SP RPG experience you remember!"
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 15, 2019 20:44:36 GMT
Have you considered that they have always liked multiplayer and would try and implement it wherever they could? When KOTOR didn't have multiplayer old BW fans made a stink about it because it *didn't* have multiplayer, unlike many of their previous (big, single-player) releases. Heck, their first title in '96 had multiplayer. Considering that EA has mandated that all their games include online elements (multiplayer being one of them), I don't think its as cut and dry to say that they [BioWare] inherently want to include such elements in all their titles. While I can agree that have a storied history with including online-type elements in their games, there's some chance that the next DA game (the Joplin version) was never meant to have a multiplayer component. Since Dragon Age multiplayer wasn't that well received upon Inquisitions release, it possible that the studio may have wanted to drop it for a more singleplayer-focused experience; during development of Joplin. With EA wanting the the next DA game to incorporate live elements, that largely pushes them towards needing to incorporate more multiplayer/online elements into the game. While I personally believe the game will end up having online-only elements for singleplayer, if that turns out to be the case it'll likely upset a number of fans. If BioWare is the only one deciding if their games have multiplayer/online elements in them, then that is what it is and I hope they at least make them functional, worthwhile additions to the game; as I felt ME3 MP was. However, as a subsidiary of EA, they're bound by a number of executive policy decisions that shape the way they develop their games. Yes, EA has to make money with their titles, but to what degree does that affect BioWare's developmental process? Based on Schreiers reporting, and Mike Gambles comments on Twitter, its a "soft" reboot of the next Dragon Age game for live service elements sake. I remember reading Aaryn Flynn made the call in 2011 to have BioWare take on the task of developing with Frostbite for future games. The feeling I got wasn't that he was necessarily enthusiastic about the the idea as much as much as it was EA saying to him "You don't HAVE to use Frostbite but we'd PREFER it (nudge nudge)". That, to me, was the tipping off point for all of BioWare's most recent troubles. Though there was some documented crunch periods making "Jade Empire", BioWare didn't necessarily have the reputation as a studio that employed "crunch" to get things done and, per former BioWare, and current Naughty Dog, animator Jonathan Cooper, "Mass Effect 2" had no crunch and was released to 90+ scores in 1/2010.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 15, 2019 20:47:46 GMT
Though there may be some truth to this, couldn't the same also be said for why BioWare Edmonton can't make purely singleplayer only titles? Considering that BioWare Austin is their online-focused studio, and that they already have SW:TOR and - soon - Anthem under their wings, shouldn't EA recognize that the Edmonton studio should be allowed to make SP titles? I'm sure EA knows BioWare can make single player games successfully but I think you have to consider a couple of things: - EA has been heavily criticized of it's handling of the "Star Wars" license as it has only produced two games to this point, both with controversy. The first "Battlefront" was considered a rush job with no campaign and DLC tied to an expensive season pass while Battlefront II had the MTX controversy. EA was not going to F this up by trying to add to the "revenue tail" with loot boxes and MP because they've been there, done that. - With the Kotaku articles, EA has been criticized for not only insisting MP and monetization in all their franchises but for Patrick Soderlund's insistence on their studios using Frostbite. So, what is the emphasis of the marketing - "No MP, No Lootboxes, Unreal Engine! No MTXs now and in the future!". It ticks all the "pro-gamer" boxes that EA has been criticized for in the past while in reality they give up nothing in that regard since their other franchises are loaded with MP and MTX. - "Mass Effect" and "Dragon Age", as much as I love both of them, are not "Star Wars". If there was a franchise you can feel safe publishing as a single player game and expect 10 million copies sold it's "Star Wars" but EA needs to not screw this up themselves. That means it has to developed on time and delivered November 15, 2019 fully baked, that means no time spent on MP development and no trying to get Respawn to adopt the thorny Frostbite engine. Personally, I am hoping EA is looking at all the praise and prestige being heaped on "God of War" and thinking to itself "you know, I have a studio in-house known for their single player games...maybe we should see what they can do". Honestly, for all this talk about "remastering" or "remaking" the "Mass Effect trilogy", I am surprised EA hasn't tasked BioWare with remaking the first "KOTOR"...talk about a game that would generate mad hype, especially if EA stated "No MP, No MTX, just the SP RPG experience you remember!" The other thing you can add to this whole debate is BioWare might actually like making MP games too. They did do them before being bought by EA apparently. Their 'golden age' (if such a thing actually existed or has passed) might have been known for purely SP but its not like their isn't precedent. Either way I am happy with it, unless they go entirely online only with DA 4 and then I might have an issue, but MP modes and lootboxes are no skin off my back, though I would be interested to see if they do go for SP only.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 15, 2019 21:15:41 GMT
I'm sure EA knows BioWare can make single player games successfully but I think you have to consider a couple of things: - EA has been heavily criticized of it's handling of the "Star Wars" license as it has only produced two games to this point, both with controversy. The first "Battlefront" was considered a rush job with no campaign and DLC tied to an expensive season pass while Battlefront II had the MTX controversy. EA was not going to F this up by trying to add to the "revenue tail" with loot boxes and MP because they've been there, done that. - With the Kotaku articles, EA has been criticized for not only insisting MP and monetization in all their franchises but for Patrick Soderlund's insistence on their studios using Frostbite. So, what is the emphasis of the marketing - "No MP, No Lootboxes, Unreal Engine! No MTXs now and in the future!". It ticks all the "pro-gamer" boxes that EA has been criticized for in the past while in reality they give up nothing in that regard since their other franchises are loaded with MP and MTX. - "Mass Effect" and "Dragon Age", as much as I love both of them, are not "Star Wars". If there was a franchise you can feel safe publishing as a single player game and expect 10 million copies sold it's "Star Wars" but EA needs to not screw this up themselves. That means it has to developed on time and delivered November 15, 2019 fully baked, that means no time spent on MP development and no trying to get Respawn to adopt the thorny Frostbite engine. Personally, I am hoping EA is looking at all the praise and prestige being heaped on "God of War" and thinking to itself "you know, I have a studio in-house known for their single player games...maybe we should see what they can do". Honestly, for all this talk about "remastering" or "remaking" the "Mass Effect trilogy", I am surprised EA hasn't tasked BioWare with remaking the first "KOTOR"...talk about a game that would generate mad hype, especially if EA stated "No MP, No MTX, just the SP RPG experience you remember!" The other thing you can add to this whole debate is BioWare might actually like making MP games too. They did do them before being bought by EA apparently. Their 'golden age' (if such a thing actually existed or has passed) might have been known for purely SP but its not like their isn't precedent. Either way I am happy with it, unless they go entirely online only with DA 4 and then I might have an issue, but MP modes and lootboxes are no skin off my back, though I would be interested to see if they do go for SP only. I'm fine with MP existing as, even though I haven'y played much ME and DA MP, some people like it and it gets its own budget apart from SP development. I think it's more of a PR thing at this point - "Oooh, look, no MP! Just a pure SP experience...ooooh" despite, like you said, BioWare has done MP before.
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