cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 20, 2019 8:40:11 GMT
Dorian never becomes a Magister. He becomes an ambassador. So we would never know if Dorian had what it takes to survive the constant rivalries in the Magisterium. Excuse me if I'm getting my facts mixed up with fanfiction, but doesn't Dorian lead anti-traditionalist movement and serves in the Magisterium opposition when we meet him in Tresspasser? I think you either need to be extremely crazy or extremely powerful since Tevinter doesn't want any changes to its thousand year old system to be in the opposition, especially if that opposition is actually getting heard. The lawful authorities would send six assassins per day to silence you. I'm pretty sure since Dorian is alive it's indicative that he in fact is well suited to survive the hostile environment.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't become one because he doesn't want to, not because he wasn't able to. He never wanted to continue his father's work. It was an obligation.
Well, Dorian does inherit his father's place, but he hasn't done so yet as far as we know. So we don't know if how good he is in the constant turmoil that is Tevinter's Magisterium. He leads a reform movement with his friend. And you are right, that entails risk. What risk? We aren't clear. But Dorian inheriting a Magister position in the future does not yet mean anything.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 20, 2019 8:43:38 GMT
Merrill though is not a novice at DAI. She repaired the Eluvian (not sure if Morrigan can even do that). How do you know this? At the end of DA2 she still had not repaired the eluvian. In fact in some world states she will have destroyed it. People say they see her eluvian in the Crossroads and it is working. How do they know it is working on the Thedas side? Even if it is working, how do you know that someone else wasn't responsible for fixing it? Or that simply reactivating the network did so? I don't recall any codex in game that confirmed Merrill had been successful in repairing it. Repairing the eluvian of itself is no an indication of natural magical ability. It was something she admitted was beyond her power without blood magic. However, she admitted that she used blood magic because it was the only source of additional energy available to her as she did not have the money to purchase large amounts of lyrium. The knowledge of how to repair it came from the demon. Morrigan leads you through the Eluvians. The one leading to Merrill is repaired because it is working. It was not working in DA2. It is working in DAI. Repairing the Eluvian does indicate magical ability because I mean not even the Circle Mages can repair Eluvians. Not even Morrigan. Merrill did indeed learn Magical Knowledge from a Demon, and that adds to her repertoire. That's why I credit that to her in terms of being a mage.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 20, 2019 8:48:57 GMT
I think you either need to be extremely crazy or extremely powerful since Tevinter doesn't want any changes to its thousand year old system to be in the opposition, especially if that opposition is actually getting heard. This is relevant to the argument about Dorian. In Tevinter your survival in the political system does depend on you being a powerful mage. The reason so many mages do turn to blood magic (specific spells not just for a power source) is to stay ahead of the opposition. Urian, the Black Divine, told Lambert that he was naïve to consider otherwise. Dorian's greatest fear is temptation and he knows the perils turning to blood magic in order to boost his power. What he and Maevaris are trying to do is prove that you do not need blood magic to succeed. Maervaris survived because she did have considerable magical ability and the financial clout that came from her husband's estate. Dorian managed to survive on his own when he first came to the south and was not afraid to challenge the status quo when he returned north. I doubt those enthusiastic young Magisters would have joined the Lucerni unless they respected his natural ability as well as his rhetoric. Bear in mind that if fighting corruption does extend to opposing the use of blood magic, then Dorian and Co will be taking on no less an individual than the Black Divine. Alexius and Dorian's magical ability is not just founded on time magic. Alexius was already considered an authority on the limits to which magic could be pushed long before he took on Dorian as his apprentice. His own father ceded his seat on the Magisterium to him in order to encourage him to be more political and use his magic for practical purposes but Alexius still preferred to concentrate on magical theory. Whilst his wife took on many apprentices, Alexius only took one, Dorian, because he recognised he did have talent worth nurturing and spending his time on. Dorian's specialism is Necromancy and that does give the user considerable power, in particular to manipulate spirits and spiritual energy. However, his original education in the Circles and then later as Alexius' apprentice mean he also has a grounding in all forms of magic and his knowledge of such would naturally be greater than those in the south because there were no religious restrictions on magical research. So Dorian has both the theoretical knowledge and the natural ability. I 100% agree. Tevinter Magisters rely on strength to keep their positions. If you are a Magister for a long time, you are a badass mage...also probably a Blood Mage. And I 100% agree with you guys that Dorian is a freaking talented mage. That's why he's so high up. Our debate is not how awesome Dorian is as a mage. But rather how does he compare to Vivienne (who I think is slightly more powerful). I think in terms of the breadth of their expertise, Vivienne knows more than Dorian and can do more than Dorian...although she cannot do Necromancy nor Time Magic. Curious, what are your takes on that contest between the 2?
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 20, 2019 8:50:30 GMT
Excuse me if I'm getting my facts mixed up with fanfiction, but doesn't Dorian lead anti-traditionalist movement and serves in the Magisterium opposition when we meet him in Tresspasser? He's not a Magister yet in Trespasser - his father is killed during that time and Dorian is going back at the end of it take his seat in the Magisterium. So he does become a Magister, just off-screen. He joins with Magister Maevaris in pushing for reforms within Tevinter. Yup. But as far as we have experienced him at DAI, he's not a Magister yet. And so we don't know how he will or would have done surviving the constant power struggles in the Magisterium. Although Dorian, being Dorian, likely will have a very strong career.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 20, 2019 9:00:40 GMT
The reason I picked Merrill is because by DAI she improved a lot. She repaired her Eluvian, for starters. And she has had ample time to master Blood Magic, unlike Jowan who just started. Dorian's time magic was innovative and is powerful. But Time Magic is not superior to all other sorts of magic. It is the fact that Merrill can draw on expert Blood Magic alongside her talents as a Dalish First (who would have been a Keeper), that I think she would win. I don't think one magic is more powerful than other magic. It's all about how well any mage is capable of using their craft plus inborn power and talent. Repairing Eluvian involved other craft items like rare artifacts that enhance skill. Why do you think she asked from a pointy thing from Marethari? She can't do it without it or without some other thingy. Merrill relies on secondary items, demons, and years of research to get her job done rather than her personal power. She even confessed openly, 'I didn't have enough power to repair it so I asked a nice demon.' She didn't have her own raw power to get it done. In my opinion improvising displays the highest level of skill. Some people spend ten years studying how to light a torch and set up their own robe on fire anyway. Dorian was capable of inventing a new spell in a flash to counter a massive spell flying in his face. That's not even a good job or amazing job, that's miracle work. Thinking you're controlling a demon while it's controlling you is not doing a good job with magic. When it comes to Merrill her magic is immature. She's fumbling through it. She's learning a branch on her own that her clan didn't teach and dubbed as taboo. Dorian's skill is highly mature and polished to perfection. He was born in society that specializes and breathes magic and he was encouraged by his social position to learn it from birth. His actions are very much professional and with self-reflection and self-realization. He knows what he's doing and knows how to take best advantage of it. Unlike Merrill, he knows how to deal with demon enough to be cynical about them. He tells a tale how he had a nice cup of tea with a demon until it tried to possess him, then, it didn't go so well for the demon. That was a highly controlled situation by him much unlike Merrill who let's herself be suckered. Dorian had all the cards laid out right for him from birth. He was born naturally powerful. He has an instinctive understanding of magic. He was born into a family that intentionally for generations bred powerful mages with powerful mages to have power. He was born into society that taught him exactly how to use his skills and how to take best advantage of them. On top of that he has a naturally inquisitive mind. He went out of the box and picked up other skills along the way such as time magic. That's a very powerful individual and with a lot of self-awareness and many skills for his young age. If Merrill didn't have Marethari and Hawke to cover for her blood magic mistakes and use, that demon most likely would have eaten her, her clan and then ran off to eat a street or two in Kirkwall until the Templars would gallivant in to stab it.
I don't think Merrill is dumber than Dorian when it comes to grasping magic. You are correct that Dorian comes from a background that naturally curates his magic; but so does Merrill. Yes, Merrill was forbidden to touch Blood Magic. But Merrill was also raised to be a First. You are also correct that Merrill needed help from Hawke or Marethari or the Keeper or the Demon. But Dorian only got to where he was with Alexius' guidance, his father's patronage, his culture, and his family background. Both Merrill and Dorian needed help to get to where they were, that is the point I disagree with you on. I agree with you that Merrill is more naive than Dorian. But isn't that is just a personality issue, not a reflection of talent or skill? I don't think other Dalish elves would be so trusting, Merrill's Keeper is an example I can think of. True, Merrill does not appear to have the innate genius that Dorian has. That I 100% fully agree. Not sure if Merrill would have developed Time Magic out of the blue; however, Merrill did become an expert Blood Mage without anyone teaching her and without the resources available in Tevinter. So that is important to note. It is harder for any Southern Mage to become an expert at Blood Magic compared to the Northern Mages, because all the resources and past knowledge of Blood Magic is concentrated in Tevinter. There might be a tome here and there for the Southern Apostates, but those are few and far between. So if Merrill can reach a level of expertise in Blood Magic all by herself (consulting with Demons or what not), that is also innate talent right there. Is it comparable with Dorian's? Not sure. But Merrill achieved expertise with her skills too. If Dorian expanded into Blood Magic, I think he might Merrill eventually because he has just so much more resources to develop as a Blood Mage. But as of Trespasser, I see Merrill as being more powerful than Dorian, in spite of Dorian having more intuition for grasping magical arts. But in terms of future growth, if Dorian survives the Magisterium and survives his reform movement, I think he will grow to be more powerful than Merrill...especially once he starts mastering Blood Magic. In terms of raw power or raw growth potential, Dorian can be a better mage than Merrill. What do you think?
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 20, 2019 9:17:36 GMT
On the subject of the relative merits of warriors, I think that Justice should have been placed higher on the list as he isn't just a spirit occupying a body and using the abilities that person had when alive but is a Spirit Warrior in his own right. This specialism does give the individual certain unique advantages, even if these were not sufficiently explored in the game. If being a spirit makes Cole a superior rogue to the majority of ordinary mortals, then being a spirit should make Justice a superior warrior. Thus I would place Justice above everyone bar Fenris, who I agree is the most powerful of our warrior companions, and possibly Cassandra. I would not place Cassandra so highly on the basis of her earlier history because she admits she couldn't have done it without the assistance of others. Nor would I put her there on the basis of the abilities she is given in game, because basically they just made her a Templar. If they had given her some unique Seeker abilities, such as she described to the PC, then that would place her above the rest. Seekers are immune to blood magic mind spells and possession. This is a considerable advantage in the world of Thedas. However, she claims that the most powerful Seekers are also capable of setting the lyrium aflame in the blood of their opponent, which is particularly lethal against mages who have a greater concentration in their blood but would also account for why they were so feared by Templars. In fact the abilities of Seekers would seem to replicate several high level blood magic spells. This makes sense considering that lyrium is in fact the blood of titans, so manipulating lyrium in the way a Seeker does is blood magic. Having this control over lyrium in the blood might actually mean a top level Seeker might be one of the few individuals capable of having a chance against Solas. Now Cassandra never claimed to be able to do this herself but the fact she knew about it meant she had the potential to be able to do so. So this is why she would rank highly on my list. My issue with Justice is that he was limited by the physical capabilities of his host. Cole was actually a spirit manifest in human form. In other words, Cole was as strong in Thedas as he was in the Fade, retaining access to his powers as Compassion. Justice, on the other hand, possessed Krystof, and was not fully manifested as Justice. It's clear in the game that he doesn't retain his Fade abilities in the same way Cole does. Also, Cole's abilities of being practically invisible to people is more relevant as a rogue. In terms of a warrior, Justice does not exhibit any abilities that give him an edge over other warriors. Yes he has powers, but not noticeably better than an experienced Templar's powers for example. Justice had to move within the confines of his host's physical limitations. Cole could disappear, teleport, make people forget, heal, and do other metaphysical things that Justice could not...because Cole was actually manifested as a spirit, not as a walking corpse. What do you think? I agree with on you Cassandra. If she could light Fenris' lyrium markings on fire, she would be #1 on the list. But Fenris I remember did not have that problem with Templars, as they could not take advantage of the fact that Fenris literally has Lyrium Tattoos. Doesn't Fenris mention that the Lyrium Tattoos are somehow immune to being taken advantage of by the Templars? But yeah, Cassandra can light up Lyrium in Mages' blood, immune to a lot of effects of blood magic, and is very powerful. Can she win against Solas 1v1? I don't think Solas relies a lot on lyrium to cast spells. Am I wrong?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9145
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 13:41:54 GMT
If Dorian expanded into Blood Magic, I think he might Merrill eventually because he has just so much more resources to develop as a Blood Mage. I think you are giving Blood Magic too much credit since you are placing it above other branches. It is the most treacherous and volatile form. Many who appealed to it weren't able to control it, though temporarily they were given the ability to cast flashier spells than before then they paid for these tricks. Merrill is no exception to every Joe Average who appealed to it for help and paid the price. She was lucky in friends who saved her, not in her natural ability that did damage control. I agree that it is impressive to be able to learn a craft without outside help and even the opposite when that craft is frowned on. However, you have to control your craft. I most certainly don't believe Merrill learned how to master blood magic. Being able to use a few spells doesn't mastery make. If anything, providing she doesn't hook up another demon, she's the one who'd need years to master the craft to equal Dorian.
When Merrill randomly says, 'oh I've got this spell under control' everyone runs for their lives. That doesn't indicate high level of proficiency.
I find it would be easier to compare the crafts they are masters in, her Dalish magic and Necromancy, but once again I do not value in terms of power one over another.
But isn't that is just a personality issue, not a reflection of talent or skill? In this case it's a serious problem intricately linked with magic. You have to have mental discipline to resist brainwashing. Note that mages on top of your power list DO NOT negotiate with demons period no matter the need. If you take Dorian to the Fade during Adamant quest, he is one of the few companions who stays composed and taunts back the Nightmare's attempts at intimidating him.
To be fair though, I would have liked to hear Merrill's reaction to Nightmare. I bet it would have been hilarious. She might find it fascinating and start asking if it eats eggs for breakfast.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9145
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 13:58:49 GMT
Yup. But as far as we have experienced him at DAI, he's not a Magister yet. And so we don't know how he will or would have done surviving the constant power struggles in the Magisterium. Although Dorian, being Dorian, likely will have a very strong career. I think he'd have a miserable if strong career because he doesn't want it. The Magisterium would gain a major splinter in the butt regardless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9145
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 14:15:21 GMT
Wynne does have offensive powers, it's just that the spirit possessing her seems to augment her healing ones mainly, and so it doesn't give her an edge offensive-wise. I am having trouble placing Wynne. One is the point you've outlined that her power is channeled for healing. I'm having trouble placing healers on top of combatants list. On the other hand, when we meet Wynne in the tower, according to Petra she had taken down an extremely powerful demon, which does indicate all sorts of combat power. Then she resurrected, dusted off and cast a powerful shield over the corridor which she maintained for how long before Warden arrived, while she was still wounded? A week? Doesn't she need to eat and sleep? In any case, it's funny the Templars were holding up the doors afraid of demons crawling through them while it was Wynne who was holding an entire invasion army out with a shield down the hall. That's a lot of power. Then there is one other point... I'm going to say it and duck for cover... ... Wynne's no Spring Chicken. //ruuuns
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9145
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 14:26:54 GMT
Now Cassandra never claimed to be able to do this herself but the fact she knew about it meant she had the potential to be able to do so. Actually, she did claim she has the ability to boil blood, but she said there are Seekers who were capable of killing with this ability. I found this rather vague. Won't having your blood boiled instant kill you? She seems to be able to torture without killing.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,660
gervaise21
10,774
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2019 14:57:08 GMT
Cole could disappear, teleport, make people forget, heal, and do other metaphysical things that Justice could not...because Cole was actually manifested as a spirit, not as a walking corpse. What do you think? The problem with these attributes is that he doesn't use them when actually in our party. If he uses stealth it is just normal stealth. He doesn't teleport because that is not possible in game lore. We were previously told is just people moving very fast and is something both mages and rogues can do. Making people forget about him can be useful for him personally but is not something that really gives him an edge over other rogue companions. If you make him more human then he loses this ability and his ability to influence other people's thoughts. Justice has the attributes of a spirit warrior innately because he is a spirit. I would also assume that since his host is already dead then he cannot be killed or at least harmed in the way a mortal can be. His spirit warrior abilities are similar to those of a Templar although not exactly the same. I would definitely place him above someone like Oghran even after he becomes a Grey Warden, as being an ordinary Warden doesn't actually grant you anything specific other than being able to sense darkspawn but with a considerable downside owing to the Taint. Nor does it necessarily say you are a superior warrior to any other normal one; simply that you were willing to take the Joining and weren't entirely useless. Can she win against Solas 1v1? I don't think Solas relies a lot on lyrium to cast spells. The fact of whether you use lyrium or not to cast spells is not actually relevant. Mages have lyrium in their blood. Whilst pure lyrium is the blood of titans, the lyrium signature in mages' blood is probably the reason they have magical ability and is something that they acquired from being part of the fabric of Thedas because Titans are the Pillars of the Earth that underpin the land. A bit like saying we are carbon based life forms. In fact it is possible that every creature as a degree of lyrium signature but particularly the elves because we know something about them is different and originally every elf had magical ability. If this is true, then the reason Solas has such a powerful connection with the Fade could be down to the lyrium in his blood which is more concentrated in ancient elves. Thus, this could make him vulnerable to a Seeker attack and they would also have the advantage of being able to do this without having to reveal themselves to him, so getting the drop on him before he zapped them with his petrification spell.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,660
gervaise21
10,774
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2019 15:11:13 GMT
Actually, she did claim she has the ability to boil blood, but she said there are Seekers who were capable of killing with this ability. I found this rather vague. Won't having your blood boiled instant kill you? She seems to be able to torture without killing. Having the blood boil is a spell specific to blood magic. It does not necessarily kill but it does cause excruciating pain and physical damage if used in combat. No doubt, if the person has a weak constitution or it is used repeatedly, it will kill them. It is clear that Seekers used something similar to torture people for information just as blood mages do. However, as Cassandra acknowledges, it is also possible to kill with this skill. I was always curious to know exactly how Seekers were able to do this when they are not mages but the similarity with the blood magic spell means that to my mind it is no different to blood magic and another example of how hypocritical the Chantry and the Seekers are when it comes to forbidden magic. Using magic to torture is mind manipulation, which was the reason the first Divine condemned blood magic because it took away freedom of thought. Incidentally, one of the reasons blood mages are so feared in Tevinter is their ability to torture people without leaving any physical trace on the body to indicate how they acquired the information, unlike conventional methods of torture. Actually there are other blood magic spells than blood wound they can do this with but boiling the blood would be effective. No doubt this is why Seekers liked it as well. If someone complains that you have tortured them, you simply counter with "where is the proof?" There is also spell that can alter the memory of the person so they forget they were ever tortured so I wonder if this is something Seekers can also do.
|
|
michaeln7
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 445 Likes: 828
inherit
10102
0
Sept 26, 2022 23:28:28 GMT
828
michaeln7
445
April 2018
michaeln7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by michaeln7 on Apr 20, 2019 20:00:13 GMT
I'm in agreement that Solas takes the top spot (at least for mages), given that he's Fen'Harel, and that he is fully willing AND capable of following through with his plans. He also evaded capture, detection, and unveiling (pun intended) for TWO YEARS during the Inquisition's time in action.
I put Leliana in the top spot for the rogues. She goes from effective freelancer to fighting the 5th Blight to running the entire Inquisition's information network to potentially the Chantry itself. She still does most of this EVEN IF SHE IS KILLED in Origins.
I put Cassandra in the top spot for the warriors. Her abilities as a Seeker are impressive (even if they aren't represented well in gameplay, though to be fair she's not a liar). She is willing to stand for what's right even if it means she stands alone. Not only do I find that incredibly hot, but it takes a lot of strength to do that, and do it with dignity.
My second-placers are thus:
Morrigan - Stone-cold, but has a good point every now and again, plus vast knowledge of the arcane. Varric - loyal friend and welcome tag-along, able to witness spirits, demons, false gods and false friends while remaining sane. Aveline - BEST TANK EVER.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 21, 2019 7:17:30 GMT
Cole could disappear, teleport, make people forget, heal, and do other metaphysical things that Justice could not...because Cole was actually manifested as a spirit, not as a walking corpse. What do you think? The problem with these attributes is that he doesn't use them when actually in our party. If he uses stealth it is just normal stealth. He doesn't teleport because that is not possible in game lore. We were previously told is just people moving very fast and is something both mages and rogues can do. Making people forget about him can be useful for him personally but is not something that really gives him an edge over other rogue companions. If you make him more human then he loses this ability and his ability to influence other people's thoughts. Justice has the attributes of a spirit warrior innately because he is a spirit. I would also assume that since his host is already dead then he cannot be killed or at least harmed in the way a mortal can be. His spirit warrior abilities are similar to those of a Templar although not exactly the same. I would definitely place him above someone like Oghran even after he becomes a Grey Warden, as being an ordinary Warden doesn't actually grant you anything specific other than being able to sense darkspawn but with a considerable downside owing to the Taint. Nor does it necessarily say you are a superior warrior to any other normal one; simply that you were willing to take the Joining and weren't entirely useless. Can she win against Solas 1v1? I don't think Solas relies a lot on lyrium to cast spells. The fact of whether you use lyrium or not to cast spells is not actually relevant. Mages have lyrium in their blood. Whilst pure lyrium is the blood of titans, the lyrium signature in mages' blood is probably the reason they have magical ability and is something that they acquired from being part of the fabric of Thedas because Titans are the Pillars of the Earth that underpin the land. A bit like saying we are carbon based life forms. In fact it is possible that every creature as a degree of lyrium signature but particularly the elves because we know something about them is different and originally every elf had magical ability. If this is true, then the reason Solas has such a powerful connection with the Fade could be down to the lyrium in his blood which is more concentrated in ancient elves. Thus, this could make him vulnerable to a Seeker attack and they would also have the advantage of being able to do this without having to reveal themselves to him, so getting the drop on him before he zapped them with his petrification spell. My point was that Cole is not like Justice, because Cole is the only spirit we know that actually manifests outside the Fade. Justice possess a corpse, making him an Undead Abomination if you will. Cole doesn't use his Spirit abilities in combat, but he does do so in cutscenes, like teleporting. I do think Cole actually teleports in those cutscenes, not just moving very fast. Why do you say he doesn't? See the 13 minute mark: See the 4 minute mark Anyway, my point is to say that Justice was limited by his host's physical form, and Cole was not. That's why Justice doesn't fully take advantage of all the abilities that a spirit can do. Could Justice be killed in Thedas? I think it is the same as you killing any abomination. I believe the spirit/demon is either banished or actually destroyed. Not sure which. Justice might be better than Oghren though. I always thought being a Grey Warden gives you a little bit of a boost in combat and training. Or else it would fail to explain why Grey Wardens are actually considered elite combatants in war, and not just against darkspawn. Regarding Solas. Does Solas cast magic in the same way as all others? That's my question because it doesn't seem like he does rely on Lyrium the way other mages do. He seems to be able to innately tap into the Fade. If this is true, Templars/Seeker abilities are greatly reduced against Solas.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 21, 2019 7:21:10 GMT
If Dorian expanded into Blood Magic, I think he might Merrill eventually because he has just so much more resources to develop as a Blood Mage. I think you are giving Blood Magic too much credit since you are placing it above other branches. It is the most treacherous and volatile form. Many who appealed to it weren't able to control it, though temporarily they were given the ability to cast flashier spells than before then they paid for these tricks. Merrill is no exception to every Joe Average who appealed to it for help and paid the price. She was lucky in friends who saved her, not in her natural ability that did damage control. I agree that it is impressive to be able to learn a craft without outside help and even the opposite when that craft is frowned on. However, you have to control your craft. I most certainly don't believe Merrill learned how to master blood magic. Being able to use a few spells doesn't mastery make. If anything, providing she doesn't hook up another demon, she's the one who'd need years to master the craft to equal Dorian.
When Merrill randomly says, 'oh I've got this spell under control' everyone runs for their lives. That doesn't indicate high level of proficiency.
I find it would be easier to compare the crafts they are masters in, her Dalish magic and Necromancy, but once again I do not value in terms of power one over another.
But isn't that is just a personality issue, not a reflection of talent or skill? In this case it's a serious problem intricately linked with magic. You have to have mental discipline to resist brainwashing. Note that mages on top of your power list DO NOT negotiate with demons period no matter the need. If you take Dorian to the Fade during Adamant quest, he is one of the few companions who stays composed and taunts back the Nightmare's attempts at intimidating him.
To be fair though, I would have liked to hear Merrill's reaction to Nightmare. I bet it would have been hilarious. She might find it fascinating and start asking if it eats eggs for breakfast. It's not that I think Blood Magic is more powerful than other types of magic. Rather I see Blood Magic expertise as augmenting existing skills. Basically steroids for mages. Haha you are right that personality would actually affect Merrill's combat readiness. I guess that should be taken into account. But what about the fact that Merrill has Blood Magic to augment her Dalish arts over Dorian?
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 21, 2019 7:22:28 GMT
Wynne does have offensive powers, it's just that the spirit possessing her seems to augment her healing ones mainly, and so it doesn't give her an edge offensive-wise. I am having trouble placing Wynne. One is the point you've outlined that her power is channeled for healing. I'm having trouble placing healers on top of combatants list. On the other hand, when we meet Wynne in the tower, according to Petra she had taken down an extremely powerful demon, which does indicate all sorts of combat power. Then she resurrected, dusted off and cast a powerful shield over the corridor which she maintained for how long before Warden arrived, while she was still wounded? A week? Doesn't she need to eat and sleep? In any case, it's funny the Templars were holding up the doors afraid of demons crawling through them while it was Wynne who was holding an entire invasion army out with a shield down the hall. That's a lot of power. Then there is one other point... I'm going to say it and duck for cover... ... Wynne's no Spring Chicken. //ruuuns That is my problem too. Wynne does take down a powerful demon, true. And so she is pretty good, especially with Faith inside her, Spring Chicken or not lol. So maybe simply having Faith augments her skills regardless? Or that Wynne actually is already a pretty damn good mage.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 21, 2019 8:32:51 GMT
I'm in agreement that Solas takes the top spot (at least for mages), given that he's Fen'Harel, and that he is fully willing AND capable of following through with his plans. He also evaded capture, detection, and unveiling (pun intended) for TWO YEARS during the Inquisition's time in action. I put Leliana in the top spot for the rogues. She goes from effective freelancer to fighting the 5th Blight to running the entire Inquisition's information network to potentially the Chantry itself. She still does most of this EVEN IF SHE IS KILLED in Origins. I put Cassandra in the top spot for the warriors. Her abilities as a Seeker are impressive (even if they aren't represented well in gameplay, though to be fair she's not a liar). She is willing to stand for what's right even if it means she stands alone. Not only do I find that incredibly hot, but it takes a lot of strength to do that, and do it with dignity. My second-placers are thus: Morrigan - Stone-cold, but has a good point every now and again, plus vast knowledge of the arcane. Varric - loyal friend and welcome tag-along, able to witness spirits, demons, false gods and false friends while remaining sane. Aveline - BEST TANK EVER. Good point about Leliana! Wonder what Spirit resurrected her? Maybe Faith? She could be the same situation as Wynne? What does it mean with a Spirit/Demon possess a non-mage? Could Cassandra beat Fenris if he can fade in and out? I'm honestly asking because I recall Fenris saying his Lyrium markings are immune to Templar effects (or maybe I misheard???). I would assume it would also be immune to Seeker effects too then. Aveline was a truck in DA2. Nobody got past her lol. I liked Varric too as 2nd. Bianca is just too much of an advantage + Varric's spymaster reach.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,660
gervaise21
10,774
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Apr 21, 2019 8:46:46 GMT
I do think Cole actually teleports in those cutscenes, not just moving very fast. Why do you say he doesn't? Because we have been told that teleportation is not possible in Thedas, something originally confirmed by the writers so not just a case of lack off knowledge by people in the world. However, they have suggested other things originally that were later disproven and Cole is a special case so may be he can teleport over limited distances. Or else it would fail to explain why Grey Wardens are actually considered elite combatants in war, and not just against darkspawn. They are considered better than your average soldier but are they really considered superior to, say, the Chevaliers as a group or the Ash Warriors? Oghran was a member of the Warrior Caste in Orzammar so would have received standard dwarven training as a matter of course and likely some elite training as well but I don't recall it being said that made him superior to, for example, a member of the Legion of the Dead and nothing much changed on him joining the Wardens, so I do not feel he should be ranked as superior or even equal to some other non-Warden fighters. Loghain deserves his high rank because of his exploits and reputation before he joined the Wardens. There is no way he should be ranked the same level as Oghran. Regarding Solas. Does Solas cast magic in the same way as all others? That's my question because it doesn't seem like he does rely on Lyrium the way other mages do. He seems to be able to innately tap into the Fade. If this is true, Templars/Seeker abilities are greatly reduced against Solas. This is true. He is a Dreamer and thus able to connect with the Fade consciously. However, I have already explained why this wouldn't be relevant when it came to Seeker abilities as that has nothing to do with how he connects to the Fade but his actual physical make-up. Seekers would still be able to use their ability against a mage who had never used lyrium. It is particularly effective against blood mages who also use a completely different method to lyrium to channel power. This is because they are attacking the lyrium in the blood, which is something that is always present. The writers have not explained why this should be but I have offered a plausible explanation for this.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,660
gervaise21
10,774
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Apr 21, 2019 11:39:52 GMT
Good point about Leliana! Wonder what Spirit resurrected her? Maybe Faith? She could be the same situation as Wynne? What does it mean with a Spirit/Demon possess a non-mage? As I understood it a spirit didn't possess her body and resurrect her but a spirit recreated her and then took on her persona. So it is closer to being like Cole but apparently without the ability to read people's minds or she'd have known about the various spies in our midst and would definitely have known about Solas (unless he can shield himself from discovery in some way). If the spirit Leliana is not made Divine then once the Inquisition is disbanded/reduced in size, it simply departs. I'd tend to ignore that manifestation of Leliana when considering her merits as it was never really explained what was going on and was really just a convenient plot device that the writers used to explain her continued existence if the PC chopped off her head in DAO. I do question just how efficient a spy master Leliana actually is given how many people do manage to avoid detection. It was just inexcusable not to have properly checked out those Qunari elves considering she knew they actually came from Kirkwall, Hawke was attacked by mobs of Qunari elves in the battle at the end of Act 2 and also Hawke knew about the list of Qunari agents from MoA. Kirkwall's nobility might have buried their heads in the sand about acknowledging this but surely an efficient spy master should not? I'd put her and Zevran equal first. She does have the contacts and influence through her skills as a bard; he has the underworld contacts and experience through his time as a Crow. Leliana is an excellent archer but Zevran is excellent at close range. As a dual-wielder he wasn't just restricted to daggers (see comment below about Sigrun) I wouldn't rule out Sigrun either. She has the natural dwarven toughness plus the additional attributes of a Legionnaire Scout which makes her far more resilient that normal rogues, particularly when it comes to resisting magic. I found her very useful in my party because she struck me as a sort of Warrior/Rogue crossover. Of course it helped that back in DAO/DAA the skills trees were more flexible and as a dual wielder she could use long swords and axes, not just daggers. Could Cassandra beat Fenris if he can fade in and out? I'm honestly asking because I recall Fenris saying his Lyrium markings are immune to Templar effects (or maybe I misheard???). I would assume it would also be immune to Seeker effects too then. Whilst Templar and Seeker abilities are totally different, you may be right about this because Cassandra states that the Seeker is attacking the blood of the victim, whereas Fenris markings are on the surface of his skin, so the nature of their composition is different. As I explain above, blood mages can make the blood boil, so even if the Seeker is specifically targeting the lyrium it is doing so as a constituent of the blood and thus in liquid form. I think Fenris' markings are closer in nature to the mineral form of lyrium found in the earth and I don't believe Seekers are capable of boiling lyrium in its raw mineral state.
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,899 Likes: 24,166
Member is Online
inherit
214
0
Member is Online
Apr 18, 2024 11:17:43 GMT
24,166
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,899
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Apr 21, 2019 22:18:11 GMT
Because we have been told that teleportation is not possible in Thedas, something originally confirmed by the writers so not just a case of lack off knowledge by people in the world. However, they have suggested other things originally that were later disproven and Cole is a special case so may be he can teleport over limited distances. Material people can't teleport via magic, but Cole is a spirit - immaterial - and doesn't use magic. I don't see why the same rules would apply to him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9145
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 18, 2024 11:31:43 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 22:28:24 GMT
But what about the fact that Merrill has Blood Magic to augment her Dalish arts over Dorian? I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean for example: Merrill can cast stone first, if she casts some kind of blood magic stone fist then it will be a more powerful knockout? I thought blood magic had its own spells, but it didn't make a spell from a different school of magic more powerful? I imagine the Dalish would have a riot though if their ancient magic got mixed with blood magic. I think my biggest issue with blood magic is the label called 'price' attached to it. If someone cuts up their wrists a bit and sacrifices a canary they'll get a little bit more mana, which won't rank them as the top level mage. In order to have significant gains the sacrifice has to be much higher. At least, whenever we run in into big guns blood mages, they always have a basement full of corpses. In that case we would be equating ruthlessness with power. Whoever is most bloodthirsty and willing to go the farthest in murder knifing would gain the most power and would be the number one elite mage. I see all sorts of issue with this formula.
|
|
Sokemis
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
Posts: 876 Likes: 1,827
inherit
9163
0
1,827
Sokemis
876
August 2017
sokemis
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sokemis on Apr 21, 2019 23:53:14 GMT
But what about the fact that Merrill has Blood Magic to augment her Dalish arts over Dorian? Part of the problem with using blood magic as a reason to consider someone a more powerful mage is that, as far as I understand it, the most powerful blood spells require a lot of blood - as in many human sacrifices. Merrill only uses her own blood, I don't remember any reference to her using anyone else blood, even a little. So no matter how much expertise she may or may not gain over the years in the use of Blood Magic, she'll always be locked out of those top tier spells. Dorian has training in many schools of magic - and, being trained in Tevinter, his magical education would likely have been even stronger that that of a Southern mage (where training that is considered "bad" by the Chantry and/or could give a mage too much power is restricted by the Circles). Also, I suspect most Tevinter noble mages receive some "unofficial training" in blood magic somewhere along the way - even if Dorian refuses to use blood magic, that knowledge may help him protect himself against it. Personally, I would place Dorian on the same level as Vivienne and both of them above Merrill.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 22, 2019 3:03:34 GMT
I do think Cole actually teleports in those cutscenes, not just moving very fast. Why do you say he doesn't? Because we have been told that teleportation is not possible in Thedas, something originally confirmed by the writers so not just a case of lack off knowledge by people in the world. However, they have suggested other things originally that were later disproven and Cole is a special case so may be he can teleport over limited distances. Or else it would fail to explain why Grey Wardens are actually considered elite combatants in war, and not just against darkspawn. They are considered better than your average soldier but are they really considered superior to, say, the Chevaliers as a group or the Ash Warriors? Oghran was a member of the Warrior Caste in Orzammar so would have received standard dwarven training as a matter of course and likely some elite training as well but I don't recall it being said that made him superior to, for example, a member of the Legion of the Dead and nothing much changed on him joining the Wardens, so I do not feel he should be ranked as superior or even equal to some other non-Warden fighters. Loghain deserves his high rank because of his exploits and reputation before he joined the Wardens. There is no way he should be ranked the same level as Oghran. Regarding Solas. Does Solas cast magic in the same way as all others? That's my question because it doesn't seem like he does rely on Lyrium the way other mages do. He seems to be able to innately tap into the Fade. If this is true, Templars/Seeker abilities are greatly reduced against Solas. This is true. He is a Dreamer and thus able to connect with the Fade consciously. However, I have already explained why this wouldn't be relevant when it came to Seeker abilities as that has nothing to do with how he connects to the Fade but his actual physical make-up. Seekers would still be able to use their ability against a mage who had never used lyrium. It is particularly effective against blood mages who also use a completely different method to lyrium to channel power. This is because they are attacking the lyrium in the blood, which is something that is always present. The writers have not explained why this should be but I have offered a plausible explanation for this. Hmm I don't think Wardens are better than Chevaliers. It's just that having Grey Warden experience is a boost to anyone's combat abilities, somehow according to the game. Oghren having both Berserker and Grey Warden skills would mean he is an exceptional fighter than almost anyone you run across. Loghain too, seems to get better once he joins the Wardens. His old age being a factor against him by the time DA:I comes around. Loghain's exploits came as a commander of an army, not exactly as a fighter, although he is a very good one. That's why I see Oghren and Loghain as the same... Sorry can you explain your theory as to why Solas would have Lyrium in his blood? Also I believe blood mages also use Lyrium and that Seekers are very effective against them because Seekers are immune to a lot of Blood Magical effects due to the rituals they put themselves through. Regarding Cole teleporting, I don't see how you can say he does not teleport in those cutscenes? Bioware evidently did not have Cole in mind when they say teleportation is not possible, but maybe they said that without referring to Spirits that actually manifest in Thedas?
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 22, 2019 3:15:30 GMT
Good point about Leliana! Wonder what Spirit resurrected her? Maybe Faith? She could be the same situation as Wynne? What does it mean with a Spirit/Demon possess a non-mage? As I understood it a spirit didn't possess her body and resurrect her but a spirit recreated her and then took on her persona. So it is closer to being like Cole but apparently without the ability to read people's minds or she'd have known about the various spies in our midst and would definitely have known about Solas (unless he can shield himself from discovery in some way). If the spirit Leliana is not made Divine then once the Inquisition is disbanded/reduced in size, it simply departs. I'd tend to ignore that manifestation of Leliana when considering her merits as it was never really explained what was going on and was really just a convenient plot device that the writers used to explain her continued existence if the PC chopped off her head in DAO. I do question just how efficient a spy master Leliana actually is given how many people do manage to avoid detection. It was just inexcusable not to have properly checked out those Qunari elves considering she knew they actually came from Kirkwall, Hawke was attacked by mobs of Qunari elves in the battle at the end of Act 2 and also Hawke knew about the list of Qunari agents from MoA. Kirkwall's nobility might have buried their heads in the sand about acknowledging this but surely an efficient spy master should not? I'd put her and Zevran equal first. She does have the contacts and influence through her skills as a bard; he has the underworld contacts and experience through his time as a Crow. Leliana is an excellent archer but Zevran is excellent at close range. As a dual-wielder he wasn't just restricted to daggers (see comment below about Sigrun) I wouldn't rule out Sigrun either. She has the natural dwarven toughness plus the additional attributes of a Legionnaire Scout which makes her far more resilient that normal rogues, particularly when it comes to resisting magic. I found her very useful in my party because she struck me as a sort of Warrior/Rogue crossover. Of course it helped that back in DAO/DAA the skills trees were more flexible and as a dual wielder she could use long swords and axes, not just daggers. Could Cassandra beat Fenris if he can fade in and out? I'm honestly asking because I recall Fenris saying his Lyrium markings are immune to Templar effects (or maybe I misheard???). I would assume it would also be immune to Seeker effects too then. Whilst Templar and Seeker abilities are totally different, you may be right about this because Cassandra states that the Seeker is attacking the blood of the victim, whereas Fenris markings are on the surface of his skin, so the nature of their composition is different. As I explain above, blood mages can make the blood boil, so even if the Seeker is specifically targeting the lyrium it is doing so as a constituent of the blood and thus in liquid form. I think Fenris' markings are closer in nature to the mineral form of lyrium found in the earth and I don't believe Seekers are capable of boiling lyrium in its raw mineral state. Interesting. I never thought to consider Leliana as a Spirit. Indeed her story from Leliana's Song and DA:O show she is not a Spirit. But the Leliana we find in DA:I could be a Spirit depending on whether the Warden killed Leliana in DA:O. Do you have any other proof of this though? That is certainly interesting and would explain why she does indeed vanish if she was killed in DA:O. My take on it was that the same Spirit that gave Leliana a "vision from the Maker" was the same Spirit that possessed her in the Chantry. And this Spirit revived her for a limited time until she finished her job as the Inquisition's spymaster. Good point on Leliana's failures as a spymaster. Maybe Varric would have been better? Leliana's experience as a Bard makes her a good operative, but not sure if it makes her a good administrator. Although Leliana is a very able recruiter, with guys like Charter and Rector. Leliana could plausibly go toe-to-toe with Zevran, being a former Bard and all. I just see Zevran being such a good assassin that he would out sneak and assassinate almost everyone in the game. Isabella would out duel Zevran, but Zevran would assassinate her for example. You are absolutely right with Fenris! His markings are not in the blood, and so immune to Templar/Seeker manipulations. Nice catch.
|
|
cyberpunker
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 168 Likes: 116
inherit
11165
0
Jun 19, 2023 16:28:57 GMT
116
cyberpunker
168
Apr 19, 2019 10:09:49 GMT
April 2019
cyberpunker1088
https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by cyberpunker on Apr 22, 2019 3:18:09 GMT
But what about the fact that Merrill has Blood Magic to augment her Dalish arts over Dorian? I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean for example: Merrill can cast stone first, if she casts some kind of blood magic stone fist then it will be a more powerful knockout? I thought blood magic had its own spells, but it didn't make a spell from a different school of magic more powerful? I imagine the Dalish would have a riot though if their ancient magic got mixed with blood magic. I think my biggest issue with blood magic is the label called 'price' attached to it. If someone cuts up their wrists a bit and sacrifices a canary they'll get a little bit more mana, which won't rank them as the top level mage. In order to have significant gains the sacrifice has to be much higher. At least, whenever we run in into big guns blood mages, they always have a basement full of corpses. In that case we would be equating ruthlessness with power. Whoever is most bloodthirsty and willing to go the farthest in murder knifing would gain the most power and would be the number one elite mage. I see all sorts of issue with this formula. I meant that Blood Magic is a skill set in and of itself. It has its own abilities. But Blood Magic also enables mages to simply augment their own spells with blood acting as a fuel alongside Lyrium. So yes, making a spell more powerful. That's why I see Blood Magic as always an augment to someone's magical repertoire. Merrill doesn't need a whole closet full of corpses to have Blood Magic help her out. Sure, she won't be making 100% use of its abilities, but just something would be enough? That's what she did in all of DA2, use her blood magic to give her an edge over her enemies.
|
|