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Post by Sartoz on Apr 22, 2019 12:49:55 GMT
OK folks. I read a few comments of a contrarian nature regarding whether Anthem IS or is Not a action Role Playing Game.
Personally. I'm old school on this. In no way or fashion do choices in the Hub influence the end points of the game. The Scars don't get defeated, the Dominion is not in ruins, battles don't influence "the war".
What Anthem has are localized quests, filler quests and boring quests with some good battles thrown in... with repeatability rather than innovative combat approaches or staging areas.
Where is the Role in the Playing? Where are the dark or good consequences from choices made? where is the agony in choosing to lose a friend but save thousands?
Certes, I cannot agree that this is a RPG if the only choice available is to choose which quest giver to go to. Whatever "choices" is available in the hub are illusionary RPG elements... 'cause they have no effect in the overall game.
I'v added a poll but do please comment and debate your view.
NOTE: Don't answer the first question.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 22, 2019 12:58:14 GMT
An MP looter shooter with RPG elements.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 22, 2019 13:01:40 GMT
It's a looter shooter with RPG elements like I said in the other thread.
Calling Anthem an RPG would be like calling ME games shooters.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 22, 2019 14:19:16 GMT
What's the difference between "Looter-shooter MP first & aRPG second" and "A hybrid looter-shooter MP & aRPG"?
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 22, 2019 14:44:15 GMT
What's the difference between "Looter-shooter MP first & aRPG second" and "A hybrid looter-shooter MP & aRPG"? I would guess that the former is primarily more of a looter with much less aRPG elements, than a true hybrid would be. I think the game is intended to be a hybrid (which is part of it's difficulty being satisfying to both audiences). But you can probably make the case for 'neither'. It's a combat/narrative driven multiplayer with looter and aRPG elements. Indeed the original concept, according to the Kotaku article, describes a game focused much more on combat and survival, and depending on what cataclysm turns out to be, there may still be some survival aspects present if it is what I think it's going to be. A game can also still be narrative driven without being an RPG. While the story in Anthem is short, I would still describe it as narrative driven. Clearly though, they seem intent on improving the loot, and it remains to be seen what kind of additional story content we get, and if that pads out the RPG elements with more choice/consequences at the Fort.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2019 15:14:08 GMT
Personally. I'm old school on this. In no way or fashion do choices in the Hub influence the end points of the game. The Scars don't get defeated, the Dominion is not in ruins, battles don't influence "the war". Is that actually "old school"? The earliest CRPGs didn't have any of those things either.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 22, 2019 15:28:39 GMT
As it is right now: Looter Shooter with narrative elements.
We just experienced the "Introduction" to the "Anthem" narrative and are supposedly on the doorstep of Act I so the question becomes do the choices remain relatively linear with only choices really being per your NPC conversations (and will those impact you later in the story) or will the story start to branch at some point?
Obviously, there is an opportunity for BioWare to have a branching narrative, one which takes the story in many directions, and the choices could be weighty since (as this supposed to be the beginning of a long, multi-year arc) you are less likely to replay your character going back hours since 1) there are no save points to go back to and 2) the story supposedly is going to be constantly pushing you forward.
Given the time, the game could be the hybrid BioWare envisioned...question is - will they get the time?
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 22, 2019 15:29:48 GMT
It’s a looter shooter, desperate to sell its thin story veneer as something more.
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 22, 2019 16:00:35 GMT
Personally. I'm old school on this. In no way or fashion do choices in the Hub influence the end points of the game. The Scars don't get defeated, the Dominion is not in ruins, battles don't influence "the war". Is that actually "old school"? The earliest CRPGs didn't have any of those things either.
Old school RPG would be Baldur's Gate or just plain table top D&D. I've been playing table top D&D almost continuosly since 1981 and there's never been a game where the player's decisions changed the intended outcome of the game. Technically they could have done but that would have just derailed the whole thing for no reason and none of my players would ever have considered that (particularly since all the adventures cost me money to buy ).
I'm calling it a Hybrid. They stated they wanted to do something different, never done before, and neither pure looter/shooter nor pure RPG would have met that criteria. I believe the intention was to combine their strengths on the story and cinematic side with the looter/shooter genre.
As with MEA or the Mass Effect trilogy, you choose your gender and your look, you go around interacting with characters and progressing your story and contributing to the events around you. There are cinematic cut scenes and dialogue choices, emotional moments, plot twists. All involving your character and what your character does. It's all there on the story side minus the romances (and those aren't a pre-requisite for RPG's either).
The other traditional RPG aspects are character progression and customization. You get to choose the weapons and powers you use, your fighting style (class/javelin), You gain experience and loot and improve your character in the process.
In Anthem, the world is fleshed out in the form of the codex in the same way that other Bioware RPG's have always done.
It's true that you don't necessarily get to decide what events occur in terms of the big picture but that never happened in Mass Effect either, apart, from the very last choice you make at the end of the entire trilogy and, like I said above, it's not really a pre-requisite of the genre. However there are still some places where your dialogue choices can change what happens to some of the more minor characters as well as to the environment of the Fort.
As I see it, the only real difference to ME while the story is ongoing, is that when you go on missions that progress the story, the other members of the party are other players instead of NPC's.
Admittedly, right now the balance seems skewed because we took three weeks to do the story and then months just repeating contracts and strongholds with no story progression.
Sure the end game has very little RPG elements but the end game is only the end game until the next batch of story content. I expect the balance to be redressed over time.
There are plenty of RPG's where you can carry on after the story is over but, unlike those, Bioware don't intend for the Anthem story to be over for a good few years to come.
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Post by Kelwing on Apr 22, 2019 16:34:51 GMT
I think it's more of a hybrid. As the game doesn't seem to be one or the other.
Fortnite and Apex are looter shooters. I'd say Destiny is close to a hybrid just with far better loot than Anthem. ME series is aRpg
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 22, 2019 16:54:16 GMT
Admittedly, right now the balance seems skewed because we took three weeks to do the story and then months just repeating contracts and strongholds with no story progression
Sure the end game has very little RPG elements but the end game is only the end game until the next batch of story content. I expect the balance to be redressed over time.
I think this is certainly true. Not to mention that the vast majority of the discussion and complaints about the game, besides the bugs, have been about endgame content and loot progression. But the narrative and rpg elements are fairly balanced during the critical path and leveling of your pilot. Once you've run out of main story missions and NPCs to talk to, and after reading all the codex, the story part is over for now. If this were a standalone RPG this would be the point where you would either start a new character to replay the story with different choices, or move onto another game.
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Post by Mobius Y on Apr 22, 2019 16:56:09 GMT
You’re all wrong. It’s clearly a match-3 game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 22, 2019 17:26:25 GMT
No skill tree - no RPG, imo.
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 22, 2019 20:49:24 GMT
No skill tree - no RPG, imo.
That does reduce the customization somewhat but then there was originally going to be a skill tree which they took out at the last minute. As I understand it they plan to reintroduce it in a later update.
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Post by river82 on Apr 22, 2019 22:14:17 GMT
Is that actually "old school"? The earliest CRPGs didn't have any of those things either.
Old school RPG would be Baldur's Gate or just plain table top D&D. Old school crpg is Ultima. Baldur's Gate is more modern.
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 22, 2019 22:56:04 GMT
Old school RPG would be Baldur's Gate or just plain table top D&D. Old school crpg is Ultima. Baldur's Gate is more modern.
Or M.U.D.
I actually played it a bit at University in the 80's
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Post by river82 on Apr 22, 2019 23:20:41 GMT
I guess we're ignoring that the 'loot' aspect of a looter shooter is an RPG mechanic? Okay then ...
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 22, 2019 23:24:01 GMT
I guess we're ignoring that the 'loot' aspect of a looter shooter is an RPG mechanic? Okay then ... Is it? Anno 1800 must be RPG, then with all the items to find.
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Post by river82 on Apr 22, 2019 23:26:28 GMT
I guess we're ignoring that the 'loot' aspect of a looter shooter is an RPG mechanic? Okay then ... Is it? Anno 1800 must be RPG, then with all the items to find. If you're hunting loot to evolve your character, yes. Think of all the loot games in existence - Diablo (RPG), Destiny (RPG elements), the new Far Cry (RPG elements), Borderlands (RPG), Warframe (RPG elements)
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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 23, 2019 6:42:12 GMT
OK folks. I read a few comments of a contrarian nature regarding whether Anthem IS or is Not a action Role Playing Game.
Personally. I'm old school on this. In no way or fashion do choices in the Hub influence the end points of the game. The Scars don't get defeated, the Dominion is not in ruins, battles don't influence "the war".
What Anthem has are localized quests, filler quests and boring quests with some good battles thrown in... with repeatability rather than innovative combat approaches or staging areas.
Where is the Role in the Playing? Where are the dark or good consequences from choices made? where is the agony in choosing to lose a friend but save thousands?
Certes, I cannot agree that this is a RPG if the only choice available is to choose which quest giver to go to. Whatever "choices" is available in the hub are illusionary RPG elements... 'cause they have no effect in the overall game.
I'v added a poll but do please comment and debate your view.
NOTE: Don't answer the first question.
Some of the choices in the hub affect the NPCs in the hub, I suppose. But the illusion of choice has been goign strong since ME3, so I'm not too bothered by it anymore. Frankly, I prefer a focused storyline to 20 billion options. But that's me. I did the hybrid choice.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 23, 2019 7:31:03 GMT
Is it? Anno 1800 must be RPG, then with all the items to find. If you're hunting loot to evolve your character, yes. Think of all the loot games in existence - Diablo (RPG), Destiny (RPG elements), the new Far Cry (RPG elements), Borderlands (RPG), Warframe (RPG elements) A bit lean on story elements for my taste. For me it's character progression - as choice, not loot based - and story that defines RPG.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 23, 2019 8:57:56 GMT
Let's take Warframe. It's a looter shooter. It has character progression via skill system. There is a storyline. Well, loosely. Or rather a couple. You can craft and collect inventory. You can make choices we dont know what they are good for. Yet.
Is still a looter shooter. RPG-elements don't make an RPG. They don't make an action-RPG neither. The primary game loop decides what the game is about. Not what secondary elements from other genres are melded in.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 23, 2019 9:07:06 GMT
So what is Diablo, then. Dunno D3 - only played 1 and 2, so they were: "Hack yer way through hordes of enemies and defeat the evil at the end after gotten better and chosen yer path." - Action RPG.
Woss action RPG? Is when you use skills that dont necessarily resolve with a dice-roll. Aim a headshot, score a headshot. Whatyouseeiswhatyouget. Block enemy attack at right time with mouseclick, not dice roll - dat action RPG in contrast to "normal" RPG.
Why's not looter-hacker? Cos you skill up, hangle along linear story and have endboss and game over. Some may find the looting is their primary focus: Then it's looter-hacker for them. Hybrids allow to attract more target audience instead of just one caste of gamers.
Now is Anthem more than a looter shooter? I don't see it. At least not yet.
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Post by river82 on Apr 23, 2019 9:22:30 GMT
Woss action RPG? Is when you use skills that dont necessarily resolve with a dice-roll. Aim a headshot, score a headshot. Whatyouseeiswhatyouget. Block enemy attack at right time with mouseclick, not dice roll - dat action RPG in contrast to "normal" RPG When the action-RPG elements make up the core experience of the game. So people go back and forth whether it has "RPG elements" or whether it's an "RPG" based on how central those elements are. Anyway I pointed out the issue with loot because the way the community seems to define RPG, I'm not entirely convinced that a looter shooter couldn't also be an ARPG. The idea of character progression through choice scrubs out a lot of games the community believes are RPGs. And that includes Diablo 3 because they watered down the progression through choice elements substantially. D3 removed attribute point allocation, it removed skill point allocation, it's a shell of Diablo 1 and 2 choice wise. The way the community defines RPG seems to be character evolution + combat system, that's pretty much all.
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