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Post by biggydx on Apr 24, 2019 23:55:18 GMT
Though none of us entirely know how DA4 will end up, I figured it would be relevant to bring up a conversation the conversation of campaign length. In recent years, many RPG's now (especially in the open world genre) normally require at least 30-40 hours of your playtime. Some developers are able to keep the pacing going in order to still maintain player interest, while others sometimes drag on their campaigns for too long. Often times, the play time required for these types of games can be exhaustive for some.
With the next Dragon Age game, how long do you think the campaign should be? I know the easiest answer to default to would be, "However long it needs to tell a good story," but there are points in which people start to tune out.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 25, 2019 0:01:25 GMT
I initially thought you meant 'critical path', but you're actually talking about the whole 'base' game, yes?
50-100 hours is where I think it should land for most people. Some will take a lot longer, of course. And some will zip through it faster. But for the moderate completionist - that is where I think an ideal time range would land.
If you were talking about the critical path - much shorter - maybe 20-30 hours...tops.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 25, 2019 0:05:38 GMT
I initially thought you meant 'critical path', but you're actually talking about the whole 'base' game, yes? 50-100 hours is where I think it should land for most people. Some will take a lot longer, of course. And some will zip through it faster. But for the moderate completionist - that is where I think an ideal time range would land. If you were talking about the critical path - much shorter - maybe 20-30 hours...tops. I actually do mean the "critical path". Poor wording on my part I guess. I'll alter the title so it's more specific.
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Apr 25, 2019 0:38:15 GMT
I put down 15 to 20 hours for the critical path ...
It seems that many people (75 % or more) do not have the patience to finish a video game, but Bioware/EA appears to want an extended revenue tail which would be pretty difficult if few people finish the game.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 25, 2019 0:52:23 GMT
I'm of the somewhat controversial opinion that almost the entire game should be "critical path", and I hold that view for all games. I'm completely over open worlds and shallow side quests. If there are going to be sidequests, I want them to be significant subplots, the resolution of which will have some sort of outcome on the ending, even if it's only small.
Horizon Zero Dawn, and in fact Mass Effect: Andromeda are good examples of the bare minimum I want to see. In both games, people you helped out in sidequests show up for the final battle, and in the case of ME:A, may live or die based on your decisions. Although I would prefer individual character outcomes to make narrative sense, and be relevant to what we actually did for them, rather than arbitrarily living or dying because I was or wasn't nice to them.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 25, 2019 1:14:53 GMT
Probably about 30-50 hours would be pretty decent in my view.
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Post by Frost on Apr 25, 2019 1:35:34 GMT
I voted for 40 to 50 hours. If they can make it longer and still have good content, even better. If it costs $60+, 15 hours or less is way too short.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 25, 2019 3:25:41 GMT
Horizon Zero Dawn, and in fact Mass Effect: Andromeda are good examples of the bare minimum I want to see. In both games, people you helped out in sidequests show up for the final battle, and in the case of ME:A I feel like this is the biggest thing ME:A got right with the story, and something I'm surprised people didn't take notice of more.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Apr 25, 2019 8:45:11 GMT
I'd prefer around 40 hours for the main campaign & add in some meaningful sidequests to pad that out at bit, long enough to not get bored & to do multiple playthroughs, too long & it becomes a chore, too short & it gets too repetitive too quickly.
Just my opinion.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 25, 2019 18:23:54 GMT
Horizon Zero Dawn, and in fact Mass Effect: Andromeda are good examples of the bare minimum I want to see. In both games, people you helped out in sidequests show up for the final battle, and in the case of ME:A I feel like this is the biggest thing ME:A got right with the story, and something I'm surprised people didn't take notice of more. it's why I feel MEA was the best written ME game.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 26, 2019 19:45:33 GMT
My concern with length is primarily mechanical. I'd suggest a progress rate of 10 hours per level gained, to give us time to enjoy each new stage of advancement.
This is roughly the rate at which Baldur's Gate progressed, and I think BioWare just about nailed the pace of game on that one.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Apr 26, 2019 20:57:40 GMT
My concern with length is primarily mechanical. I'd suggest a progress rate of 10 hours per level gained, to give us time to enjoy each new stage of advancement. This is roughly the rate at which Baldur's Gate progressed, and I think BioWare just about nailed the pace of game on that one. Great game, but I just enjoy levelling up too much to want to gain levels as slowly as you do in BG.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 26, 2019 22:29:02 GMT
I'm of the somewhat controversial opinion that almost the entire game should be "critical path", and I hold that view for all games. I'm completely over open worlds and shallow side quests. If there are going to be sidequests, I want them to be significant subplots, the resolution of which will have some sort of outcome on the ending, even if it's only small. Horizon Zero Dawn, and in fact Mass Effect: Andromeda are good examples of the bare minimum I want to see. In both games, people you helped out in sidequests show up for the final battle, and in the case of ME:A, may live or die based on your decisions. Although I would prefer individual character outcomes to make narrative sense, and be relevant to what we actually did for them, rather than arbitrarily living or dying because I was or wasn't nice to them. You do realize the number of insignificant side quests in DA:O, ME1, ME3 and DA:I had no connection to open world? It was just bad quest design.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 27, 2019 1:37:21 GMT
I'm of the somewhat controversial opinion that almost the entire game should be "critical path", and I hold that view for all games. I'm completely over open worlds and shallow side quests. If there are going to be sidequests, I want them to be significant subplots, the resolution of which will have some sort of outcome on the ending, even if it's only small. Horizon Zero Dawn, and in fact Mass Effect: Andromeda are good examples of the bare minimum I want to see. In both games, people you helped out in sidequests show up for the final battle, and in the case of ME:A, may live or die based on your decisions. Although I would prefer individual character outcomes to make narrative sense, and be relevant to what we actually did for them, rather than arbitrarily living or dying because I was or wasn't nice to them. You do realize the number of insignificant side quests in DA:O, ME1, ME3 and DA:I had no connection to open world? It was just bad quest design. I'm not just talking about those games, but almost all open world games. Open worlds need a large amount of content, and it ends up being shallow and boring because the resources to make it good simply aren't there. But even if the issues were totally separate, I still don't like open world anyway!
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 27, 2019 3:59:21 GMT
I couldn't disagree. At this point, huge maps with hundreds of tiny markers with generic content for me to absentmindedly explore for hours and hours just to feel like I've completed a game just makes me want to hide my head in my arms. And that's effort that could have gone into a story usually badly in need of a polishing.
I do make exception for games with particularly interesting or satisfying travel dynamics, though, like the various Spiderman and Prototype games. Andromeda only barely edged itself into that category with the new Mako. Although even those overdo it, stringing the collectible-finding and map-filling and whatnot far past the point of those travel methods getting boring and repetitive.
And there are open world games full of legitimately interesting and engaging content. God of War, Fallout: New Vegas, Skyrim, the Witcher and Horizon: Zero Dawn all do or did it right in my opinion. They're just very far between compared to the more Ubisofty model Bioware has leaned on for Inquisition and Andromeda.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 27, 2019 9:17:36 GMT
About 8 inches. Wait. I mean 40-50 hours.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 27, 2019 23:08:51 GMT
I think to have ideal side content and for it to be fun should strive to do four things.
1. Keep your gameplay fun and interesting. As long as a game's combat is fluid and fun to play, as well as other interesting things like dialogue, it really shouldn't matter how bad the side quests are, it will still be fun to play. 2. Is there a good reward for all your hard work? This can be resources, new quests, extra interesting equipment, plenty of Xp, you know just something that makes it feel worthwhile. 3. Is there an interesting new twist that a side quest offers that a game feels like it can't do for the main quest? While 'rarer' side quests do provide an opprotunity that the main quest just cannot provide, depending on the main quest line. This could be in terms of interesting choices or new and unique gameplay sequences (puzzles, swimming, etc). 4. Is there a narrative point to the side questing? Do you need to explore to discover other members of a bitter cult that is taking over the world? Or do you need to go to these places so you can help them make a home for themselves? It is a lot better when the 'side quests' inform and fill out the setting and main quest rather then just being random activities.
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Post by LogicGunn on Apr 28, 2019 17:27:47 GMT
Honestly I'd like to see the vast majority of the game to be critical-path or optional-critical-path (as in affects the story in the later stages of the game but doesn't have to be done to progress) rather than pointless side quests bulking it up so >50 hours.
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Post by seven on Apr 29, 2019 4:01:01 GMT
As much as I'd love a >100hr, I probably wouldn't be loving it on the 4th play through. I also think it might put some players off with the sheer length, and filling out 100hrs of critical path would probably be difficult and may not have consistent quality.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Apr 29, 2019 17:50:46 GMT
I have no feel for how long games are but I look back to DA2 - in that game, some quests were optional, but for the most part, it didn't feel like there was a clear dividing line between main quests and optional quests. It was all part of the story. I missed that feeling in Inquisition.
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 29, 2019 18:13:22 GMT
I'm going with 40-50 hours, personally. I feel it's a good length for the main story of the game.
Even better if the side-quests are more connected to the main story in some way or another, because you can either focus on the main quests only and still get one meaty game, or you can try and complete mostly everything the game has to offer without feeling disconnected from the main story.
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Post by masterwarderz on Apr 29, 2019 19:27:19 GMT
20-28 hours tops, likely less if its spread across a vast empty open world and locked out behind arbitrary gates in the fashion of Inquisition.
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 30, 2019 10:30:27 GMT
Depends on what you mean with "ideal". My personal preference is that most events are linked to the main plot, so that you have significant disadvantages if you ignore everything but the critical path. So in the end, I don't really care about the length of the critical path but rather about the length of a completionist game. From a storytelling viewpoint, however, I think the main plot should not be simplistic, and that means minimum complexity, and that probably means a certain minimum size.
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Post by tatarforas on Apr 30, 2019 17:25:54 GMT
Ideally 50-60hrs for me, assuming those hrs aren't wasted behind grindwalls to get to the next primary quest.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 30, 2019 19:41:09 GMT
Ideally I'd say around 20-30 for the critical path. I think this hits a nice area for a good campaign that probably doesn't pad time grinding to unlock the next stage. Companion content and other sidequests tends to fill the rest.
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