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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 26, 2019 12:02:51 GMT
Now, onto the actual topic at hand...It was very nice to have a candid update.
I do understand that not all information can be shared - however I was very relieved to hear this line:
"If we’re going to do a stream on story, combat, level design or something else, we’ll state that ahead of time so you can know what to expect."
Honestly, a stream on The Sunken Cell's design/lore/world would be cool, I genuinely think it is a super cool mission by design and art. The thing however, was that we had no idea that questions would be limited to that, and that other questions wouldn't be fielded.
I get that people would still probably say "LOOT!" anyway, but even just a sort of "hey we'll only be answering questions on the SH" would at least have set the expectation in advance.
I'm sure other form factors would have been better too: such as a VoD or Blog post.
I too, like Jesse, would love to see streams return to the fun nature, however at the moment streams are the communities only lifeline into the "State of the Game" and the problem is at the moment, there is no other outlet for that. If Jesse and the BW team can come up with a system to allow that "state of the game" information to be shared regularly in other ways (ie. a blog post) then most of the stream can actually be dedicated to the fun stuff.
I am still rooting for Anthem and the BW Austin gang because I really think they have something special buried underneath the issues.
Thank you Jesse.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 12:05:03 GMT
People have spend up to 80 bucks on this game, maybe more. They got their money, I just don't feel sorry for them.
I thought this forum is more mature then reddit audience. This is a really poor argument. People complaining mostly played over 60 hours and let me give you an example. I paid GoW 60 dollars and only played for 15 hours. Finished story then done, i didn't find new GoW as fun as old series but that game is selected as game of the year.
So, did I screwed by sony? 60 dollars for 15 hours way expensive then most games. Which reminds me every 60 dollar single player game has 20-25 hours gameplay actually, except Persona 5 and Witcher 3. From your point of view everyone who bought a single player game is cheated by companies.
As a developer and a person, this is my opinion and if i were developing Anthem and an emplyee of Bioware i weill never ever write to Reddit where trolls are running around. Reddit is a place where toxicity and trolling rules. Not so much for decent people. When they say something useful, constructive or meaningful they down voted to the ground but every single complaining up voted.
Everyday i checked AnthemTheGame and first page was full of my loot after 1 hour gmX play. Same post over and over for days up voted. That's plain bullshit.
People had to realize game developers are not their enemy. I hate Bungie for years for not communication to their community and after Anthem i realize how wrong i was. You shouldn't discuss important matters with children and trolls.
Just because you didn't like GoW isn't the same as a game being riddled with bugs, and being unplayable for some consumers. So no you weren't screwed by sony because GoW is a functioning, completed title. GoW didn't have a rendered trailer lying to the people about what was going to be in the game. Everything came with the game day one, there was no pretend roadmap with GoW. A lot of Anthem playerbase subscribe to reddit, which is why it would be a much better place to have posted this. He doesn't have to discuss it with the people on reddit, they barely do that now, but posting it there so a lot of their player base can find the post isn't a bad idea. People where basically sold a lie, and that's unethical to me. Rather or not BW continues to fix the issue doesn't matter at all. If they wanted to they could drop this, like they did Andromeda. They still got payed, they don't need sympathy. The issue is the player did not receive what they were marketed, and that's the issue.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 12:07:06 GMT
Using hours played to determine the value/enjoyment of a video game is a ridiculous argument. Because I could play trash asset flips on Steam for 935763231366 hours, that does not mean that "game" is worth anything. Yes you are right, and using "i paid 60 dollars so they have to give me everything" is not a valid point either. People paid 60-80 dollars for Anthem and a year of upcoming content. They said it before release. Base game and free updates for year.
This is what people were marketed. What they got was totally different. lol, this is an issue. Running in-game, at real time my ass. Edit: Also it's not about giving the player "everything" it's about giving the player what they said would be in the game. So where are cataclysms? Oh they are coming out at an unspecified date. Even though they were marketed as being in the game by april.
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Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Apr 26, 2019 12:08:35 GMT
Using hours played to determine the value/enjoyment of a video game is a ridiculous argument. Because I could play trash asset flips on Steam for 935763231366 hours, that does not mean that "game" is worth anything.
Yes you are right, and using "i paid 60 dollars so they have to give me everything" is not a valid point either. People paid 60-80 dollars for Anthem and a year of upcoming content. They said it before release. Base game and free updates for year.
Yep, I have a 120 hours for my 80$ and will likely double that (minimally) before all is said and done. I'll take 33 cents an hour...not much entertainment to be had for that price.
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PSN: ReaperBlack_201
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Post by reaperblack on Apr 26, 2019 12:23:57 GMT
Yes you are right, and using "i paid 60 dollars so they have to give me everything" is not a valid point either. People paid 60-80 dollars for Anthem and a year of upcoming content. They said it before release. Base game and free updates for year.
This is what people were marketed. What they got was totally different. lol, this is an issue. Running in-game, at real time my ass.
I am not defending false advertisement here, there is law to do that. I am just saying they were transparent as they can be.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 12:30:22 GMT
This is what people were marketed. What they got was totally different. lol, this is an issue. Running in-game, at real time my ass. I am not defending false advertisement here, there is law to do that. I am just saying they were transparent as they can be.
Well I didn't say they had to be.
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Post by reaperblack on Apr 26, 2019 12:30:59 GMT
I thought this forum is more mature then reddit audience. This is a really poor argument. People complaining mostly played over 60 hours and let me give you an example. I paid GoW 60 dollars and only played for 15 hours. Finished story then done, i didn't find new GoW as fun as old series but that game is selected as game of the year.
So, did I screwed by sony? 60 dollars for 15 hours way expensive then most games. Which reminds me every 60 dollar single player game has 20-25 hours gameplay actually, except Persona 5 and Witcher 3. From your point of view everyone who bought a single player game is cheated by companies.
As a developer and a person, this is my opinion and if i were developing Anthem and an emplyee of Bioware i weill never ever write to Reddit where trolls are running around. Reddit is a place where toxicity and trolling rules. Not so much for decent people. When they say something useful, constructive or meaningful they down voted to the ground but every single complaining up voted.
Everyday i checked AnthemTheGame and first page was full of my loot after 1 hour gmX play. Same post over and over for days up voted. That's plain bullshit.
People had to realize game developers are not their enemy. I hate Bungie for years for not communication to their community and after Anthem i realize how wrong i was. You shouldn't discuss important matters with children and trolls.
Just because you didn't like GoW isn't the same as a game being riddled with bugs, and being unplayable for some consumers. So no you weren't screwed by sony because GoW is a functioning, completed title. GoW didn't have a rendered trailer lying to the people about what was going to be in the game. Everything came with the game day one, there was no pretend roadmap with GoW. A lot of Anthem playerbase subscribe to reddit, which is why it would be a much better place to have posted this. He doesn't have to discuss it with the people on reddit, they barely do that now, but posting it there so a lot of their player base can find the post isn't a bad idea. People where basically sold a lie, and that's unethical to me. Rather or not BW continues to fix the issue doesn't matter at all. If they wanted to they could drop this, like they did Andromeda. They still got payed, they don't need sympathy. The issue is the player did not receive what they were marketed, and that's the issue.
You do realize Anthem is a live service game right? And also understand what live service means? How can a single player game have a roadmap except dlc's? I pointed out because of your poor arguments. Not expecting Anthem be a GoW or vice versa.
People get what they showed to them, e3 was a prerelease trailer almost 3 years old, and no one ever said we will release the game exactly like this. How many streams they did before release and how many times they answered our questions like after release, not at launch?
Whatever, feel free to hate it's much more easy to begin with.
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 12:37:32 GMT
I thought this forum is more mature then reddit audience. This is a really poor argument. People complaining mostly played over 60 hours and let me give you an example. I paid GoW 60 dollars and only played for 15 hours. Finished story then done, i didn't find new GoW as fun as old series but that game is selected as game of the year.
So, did I screwed by sony? 60 dollars for 15 hours way expensive then most games. Which reminds me every 60 dollar single player game has 20-25 hours gameplay actually, except Persona 5 and Witcher 3. From your point of view everyone who bought a single player game is cheated by companies.
As a developer and a person, this is my opinion and if i were developing Anthem and an emplyee of Bioware i weill never ever write to Reddit where trolls are running around. Reddit is a place where toxicity and trolling rules. Not so much for decent people. When they say something useful, constructive or meaningful they down voted to the ground but every single complaining up voted.
Everyday i checked AnthemTheGame and first page was full of my loot after 1 hour gmX play. Same post over and over for days up voted. That's plain bullshit.
People had to realize game developers are not their enemy. I hate Bungie for years for not communication to their community and after Anthem i realize how wrong i was. You shouldn't discuss important matters with children and trolls.
Just because you didn't like GoW isn't the same as a game being riddled with bugs, and being unplayable for some consumers. So no you weren't screwed by sony because GoW is a functioning, completed title. GoW didn't have a rendered trailer lying to the people about what was going to be in the game. Everything came with the game day one, there was no pretend roadmap with GoW. A lot of Anthem playerbase subscribe to reddit, which is why it would be a much better place to have posted this. He doesn't have to discuss it with the people on reddit, they barely do that now, but posting it there so a lot of their player base can find the post isn't a bad idea. People where basically sold a lie, and that's unethical to me. Rather or not BW continues to fix the issue doesn't matter at all. If they wanted to they could drop this, like they did Andromeda. They still got payed, they don't need sympathy. The issue is the player did not receive what they were marketed, and that's the issue. That's the fault of the player, not the developers, for buying into marketing, whose function is to "sell" to you. Kind of like how a burger joints hamburger is propped up and juicy on screen, but looks deflated when you get it. Marketing, I need to point out, that they said in the fine print is not reflective of the final title, and also had BioWare note that all of it was alpha stage stuff and subject to change. Accusations of false advertising will go nowhere, that battle will lose in litigation because EA covered their bases. Regardless of how you feel about its ethics, the reality is that's not going to change a thing and is wide spread enough in all industries, you simply need to be a good consumer and research. And hell, it's not even false advertising...Dead island was false advertising. This is just standaRd cutscene advertising.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 26, 2019 12:41:11 GMT
They marketed some vague stuff about a game. People made all kinds of assumptions what it might be about. It bites them in the ass now. Such is life.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 12:45:01 GMT
Just because you didn't like GoW isn't the same as a game being riddled with bugs, and being unplayable for some consumers. So no you weren't screwed by sony because GoW is a functioning, completed title. GoW didn't have a rendered trailer lying to the people about what was going to be in the game. Everything came with the game day one, there was no pretend roadmap with GoW. A lot of Anthem playerbase subscribe to reddit, which is why it would be a much better place to have posted this. He doesn't have to discuss it with the people on reddit, they barely do that now, but posting it there so a lot of their player base can find the post isn't a bad idea. People where basically sold a lie, and that's unethical to me. Rather or not BW continues to fix the issue doesn't matter at all. If they wanted to they could drop this, like they did Andromeda. They still got payed, they don't need sympathy. The issue is the player did not receive what they were marketed, and that's the issue. You do realize Anthem is a live service game right? And also understand what live service means? How can a single player game have a roadmap except dlc's? I pointed out because of your poor arguments. Not expecting Anthem be a GoW or vice versa. People get what they showed to them, e3 was a prerelease trailer almost 3 years old, and no one ever said we will release the game exactly like this. How many streams they did before release and how many times they answered our questions like after release, not at launch?
Whatever, feel free to hate it's much more easy to begin with.
Just because the game is a live service doesn't give them the right to lie about when people will receive content. Why even have a roadmap if you're not going to stick to it? My point about GoW was to only illustrate the difference on why a player shouldn't be mad that they payed 60 bucks for it. It was a polished complete title, whereas Anthem is not. It's not polished and it's not complete given content is still missing, even content that was present in those pre-release live streams are missing. Hell yeah I going to hate on a game that took money from it's players and are delaying content they promised. This is why I hate live service games, it give companies the excuses they need to scam their players.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 12:50:21 GMT
Just because you didn't like GoW isn't the same as a game being riddled with bugs, and being unplayable for some consumers. So no you weren't screwed by sony because GoW is a functioning, completed title. GoW didn't have a rendered trailer lying to the people about what was going to be in the game. Everything came with the game day one, there was no pretend roadmap with GoW. A lot of Anthem playerbase subscribe to reddit, which is why it would be a much better place to have posted this. He doesn't have to discuss it with the people on reddit, they barely do that now, but posting it there so a lot of their player base can find the post isn't a bad idea. People where basically sold a lie, and that's unethical to me. Rather or not BW continues to fix the issue doesn't matter at all. If they wanted to they could drop this, like they did Andromeda. They still got payed, they don't need sympathy. The issue is the player did not receive what they were marketed, and that's the issue. That's the fault of the player, not the developers, for buying into marketing, whose function is to "sell" to you. Kind of like how a burger joints hamburger is propped up and juicy on screen, but looks deflated when you get it. Marketing, I need to point out, that they said in the fine print is not reflective of the final title, and also had BioWare note that all of it was alpha stage stuff and subject to change. Accusations of false advertising will go nowhere, that battle will lose in litigation because EA covered their bases. Regardless of how you feel about its ethics, the reality is that's not going to change a thing and is wide spread enough in all industries, you simply need to be a good consumer and research. And hell, it's not even false advertising...Dead island was false advertising. This is just standaRd cutscene advertising. And you act as if there is still not content missing even after the pre-release footage was shown in the live streams. Where are all those armor pieces? This game is a scam...plain and simple. And it's sad that people still defend it. I know the reality, but I'm not going to sit here and say that the people who have bought this trash don't have the right to lash out like they're doing now. Yes, they bought it and it's their fault, but they also have the right to make it known how upset they are about the whole ordeal.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 12:53:53 GMT
That's the fault of the player, not the developers, for buying into marketing, whose function is to "sell" to you. Kind of like how a burger joints hamburger is propped up and juicy on screen, but looks deflated when you get it. Marketing, I need to point out, that they said in the fine print is not reflective of the final title, and also had BioWare note that all of it was alpha stage stuff and subject to change. Accusations of false advertising will go nowhere, that battle will lose in litigation because EA covered their bases. Regardless of how you feel about its ethics, the reality is that's not going to change a thing and is wide spread enough in all industries, you simply need to be a good consumer and research. And hell, it's not even false advertising...Dead island was false advertising. This is just standaRd cutscene advertising. And you act as if there is still not content missing even after the pre-release footage was shown in the live streams. Where are all those armor pieces? This game is a scam...plain and simple. And it's sad that people still defend it. I know the reality, but I'm not going to sit here and say that the people who have bought this trash don't have the right to lash out like they're doing now. Yes, they bought it and it's their fault, but they also have the right to make it known how upset they are about the whole ordeal. Anyone who calls this game a scam is, quite frankly, misinformed or entitled. This is not a fly by night operation robbing people. It's a business model that folks knew would do this going in. Simple as that.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 12:56:13 GMT
And you act as if there is still not content missing even after the pre-release footage was shown in the live streams. Where are all those armor pieces? This game is a scam...plain and simple. And it's sad that people still defend it. I know the reality, but I'm not going to sit here and say that the people who have bought this trash don't have the right to lash out like they're doing now. Yes, they bought it and it's their fault, but they also have the right to make it known how upset they are about the whole ordeal. Anyone who calls this game a scam is, quite frankly, misinformed and entitled. Simple as that. You can call me "entitled" as much as you like, even though I didn't even purchase the game. But the simple fact is they showed things that weren't even in the game and got people to spend 60 bucks for it.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 12:58:57 GMT
Anyone who calls this game a scam is, quite frankly, misinformed and entitled. Simple as that. You can call me "entitled" as much as you like, even though I didn't even purchase the game. But the simple fact is they showed things that weren't even in the game and got people to spend 60 buck for it. When you have a legitimate argument that can prove they are removing parts of the game on purpose and not planning on releasing them, let me know. Until then, stop being so alarmist with the false accusations you spread.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 13:03:06 GMT
You can call me "entitled" as much as you like, even though I didn't even purchase the game. But the simple fact is they showed things that weren't even in the game and got people to spend 60 buck for it. When you have a legitimate argument that can prove they are removing parts of the game on purpose and not planning on releasing them, let me know. Until then, stop being so alarmist with the false accusations you spread. So tell me what happened to all those armor pieces that were present in the live streams?
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 26, 2019 13:05:35 GMT
Anthem's E3 2017 trailer clearly stated that "Everything you are about to see was captured in game running in real-time". That was a blatant lie, and it doesn't become less of a lie because we could expect it to be a lie. Do burger joints ever state that their photos are taken from a real burger fresh from their kitchen?
Dead Island on the other hand... if anyone expected to play the game in reverse slow motion like the trailer, that is entirely on them.
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 13:08:00 GMT
When you have a legitimate argument that can prove they are removing parts of the game on purpose and not planning on releasing them, let me know. Until then, stop being so alarmist with the false accusations you spread. So tell me what happened to all those armor pieces that were present in the live streams? The ones that have been in and out of rotation you mean in the store? That's kind of my point, how is it a scam when they make it available to you? Its not purposeully planning to never release content. Immediate access sure, complain about that. But a scam....willfully poor argument.
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 13:08:28 GMT
Anthem's E3 2017 trailer clearly stated that "Everything you are about to see was captured in game running in real-time". That was a blatant lie, and it doesn't become less of a lie because we could expect it to be a lie. Do burger joints ever state that their photos are taken from a real burger fresh from their kitchen? Dead Island on the other hand... if anyone expected to play the game in reverse slow motion like the trailer, that is entirely on them. Thank you
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Post by 10k on Apr 26, 2019 13:12:15 GMT
So tell me what happened to all those armor pieces that were present in the live streams? The ones that have been in and out of rotation you mean in the store? That's kind of my point, how is it a scam when they make it available to you? Its not purposeully planning to never release content. Immediate access sure, complain about that. But a scam....willfully poor argument. No the ones that were shown to be free in game, and all those color pallets and emotes as well. So you're saying they showed that you can customize with them in the live-streams, but took them out and put them behind a paywall? Yeah, that's not a scam. Showing the audience that they are usable in game, but fail to mention they will be behind a paywall upon release lol.
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Post by river82 on Apr 26, 2019 13:13:02 GMT
This is how the cycle goes:
- Anthem advertises a trailer running in game - Gamers who have been there before advise caution because it could be bullshot - These gamers are called haters, company fans say company can't and won't blatantly lie - Developers point to this skepticism as reasons why they no longer interact with the community - Release reveals blatant … misleading - Gamers got burnt - Next time a trailer is released more gamers are skeptical
And thus the cycle of distrust between gamers and game companies continues.
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bizantura
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Post by bizantura on Apr 26, 2019 13:36:26 GMT
I am baffled with what I read in defense of Bioware's behavior.
Marketing is straight up lying to get your product sold and if you bought into that it is your own fault!
Life services are paying full price and we will develop the product at our leisure if we feel like it, if the product is not very enjoyable/playable in the meantime you knew that beforehand that is what life service is all about!
I feel lucky to already went thru the 5 stages of grief and loss with Bioware and cherish the fun memories of their great games I am still playing today.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 26, 2019 13:37:46 GMT
Anyone who calls this game a scam is, quite frankly, misinformed or entitled. This is not a fly by night operation robbing people. It's a business model that folks knew would do this going in. Simple as that.
Simple, yes. Technically true, even.
However, "folks new" is conjecture. I doubt if "folks new" would generate community anger over "missing promises". Yes, Bio uses lawyer approved language to save their azz. Unfortunately, it is woefully vague but construed to generate a certain expectations that the "consumer fills in". Now Bio has to deal with the negative reactions because the consumer expectations are not realized. Great marketing. Pizzed off consumers.
Simple as that.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 13:40:35 GMT
Anthem's E3 2017 trailer clearly stated that "Everything you are about to see was captured in game running in real-time". That was a blatant lie, and it doesn't become less of a lie because we could expect it to be a lie. Do burger joints ever state that their photos are taken from a real burger fresh from their kitchen? Dead Island on the other hand... if anyone expected to play the game in reverse slow motion like the trailer, that is entirely on them. The difference between the two are still paramount though. Adverts like that reveal trailer are supposed to be reflective of game experience. Anthem's is reflective of what you do, fly, shoot, bomb, join multiplayer. The dead island trailer tried to be artsy (which I commend) but was definitly not reflective of the game itself, which was devoid of emotion and resonance. As far as the captured in game footage goes, I did forget about that and I can't defend that, but I will say it is close to what the game looks like, at least visually. So that is in its favor.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 13:43:18 GMT
Anyone who calls this game a scam is, quite frankly, misinformed or entitled. This is not a fly by night operation robbing people. It's a business model that folks knew would do this going in. Simple as that.
Simple, yes. Technically true, even.
However, "folks new" is conjecture. I doubt if "folks new" would generate community anger over "missing promises". Yes, Bio uses lawyer approved language to save their azz. Unfortunately, it is woefully vague but construed to generate a certain expectations that the "consumer fills in". Now Bio has to deal with the negative reactions because the consumer expectations are not realized. Great marketing. Pizzed off consumers.
Simple as that.
A wise cartoon once said technically correct is the best kind of correct, to be fair. I get folks are mad, but there is a massive difference between being mad and calling it a scam.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 13:44:10 GMT
The ones that have been in and out of rotation you mean in the store? That's kind of my point, how is it a scam when they make it available to you? Its not purposeully planning to never release content. Immediate access sure, complain about that. But a scam....willfully poor argument. No the ones that were shown to be free in game, and all those color pallets and emotes as well. So you're saying they showed that you can customize with them in the live-streams, but took them out and put them behind a paywall? Yeah, that's not a scam. Showing the audience that they are usable in game, but fail to mention they will be behind a paywall upon release lol. They said you had to unlock them and had two currencies...that should not be a surprise to you.
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