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spacecowboy
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 17:19:54 GMT
No I have a problem with marketing that showed items that will be readily available for the player at release, but fail to mention that these items will be instead behind a paywall, they're not readily available, and they can't be earned by just playing. If they actually marketed as such there wouldn't be a problem, but they didn't. None of them are behind a pay wall. Coin is earned by playing the game just as gold is earned in DAO by playing the game. By your reasoning every thing in Bodahns shop is behind a pay wall. So if I don’t have enough gold in DAO I can pay real cash to get those skill up books rather than waiting until I’ve earned enough gold in game? Don’t be absurd. A paywall suggests real money. As others have pointed out, strictly speaking there isn’t a paywall in Anthem either. You can eventually earn enough money to buy an item in the store. Problem is, by the time you’ve got enough coin, the item you like will have been cycled out. The only reason to cycle out items instead of having everything available all the time, (you know, like in Budhans shop) is to manipulate players into spending real cash rather than saving in game money.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 26, 2019 17:36:52 GMT
Do you get a reward for killing the Ursix? And is that reward paltry for the amount of time it takes to complete the 'challenge'. If we're playing semantics, I guess the point is proven.
That your point is rather blunt yes. The rewards are always paltry in the greater scheme of things. What do you think you will get for the killing 10000 in The Division? Is it worth it?
Depends on how long it takes to kill that many, and what you get. I don't play the Division 2, so I wouldn't know. Do you get something that you can't get anywhere else? Do you get something that would be in the store? Do you get something some armor that you can wear around, and other players can say, hey that dude got this commendation? Do you get currency, what?
I just know in Anthem killing 100 Ursix is a huge undertaking, seeing that they aren't common, and 1600 coin is a paltry reward considering that to even get an emote out the store you need 23K, let alone the 61K you would need for new armor.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 26, 2019 17:44:39 GMT
I just know in Anthem killing 100 Ursix is a huge undertaking, seeing that they aren't common, and 1600 coin is a paltry reward considering that to even get an emote out the store you need 23K, let alone the 61K you would need for new armor.
Then don't do it.
These challenges are not set up like quests. In a quest, you get specific mission, you do it, you get a reward for it (be that coin, other resources or just new dialogue with an NPC or whatever). Challanges should be something that just happens to you while you are doing quests. If there is a challenge to kill 100 Ursixes (is that the plural?), it's meant as a reward for people who spend an enormous amount of time in the game doing other stuff and thus accumulate those 100 Ursix kills over time.
I'd rather be angry if this WAS a must-do quest because of a huge reward. Now that would piss me off, not the fact that this challenge is absolutely optional for all practical purposes.
As far as the general coin and ingame cost controversy is concerned, I see it like @grinch . It's only cosmetics, who really cares?
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 26, 2019 17:50:59 GMT
Do you get a reward for killing the Ursix? And is that reward paltry for the amount of time it takes to complete the 'challenge'. If we're playing semantics, I guess the point is proven. It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense. Killing Ursix has no meaning and a digital vinyl that costs effort (coin) or money (shards) has no meaning, other than the meaning we choose to give it. All of it should be fun to do (the perception of which varies individually), or don't do it. If it is fun and gives pleasure, I'd hazard it's just as harmless a way to spend your time and money as many other hobbies people have, perhaps more so.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 17:58:11 GMT
Do you get a reward for killing the Ursix? And is that reward paltry for the amount of time it takes to complete the 'challenge'. If we're playing semantics, I guess the point is proven. It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense. Killing Ursix has no meaning and a digital vinyl that costs effort (coin) or money (shards) has no meaning, other than the meaning we choose to give it. All of it should be fun to do (the perception of which varies individually), or don't do it. If it is fun and gives pleasure, I'd hazard it's just as harmless a way to spend your time and money as many other hobbies people have, perhaps more so. I agree, if I was playing I would be perfectly happy to do so better n the base cosmetic look of the javelin. How it looks is uninteresting to me. If I enjoyed the game I’d play.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 26, 2019 18:04:17 GMT
Do you get a reward for killing the Ursix? And is that reward paltry for the amount of time it takes to complete the 'challenge'. If we're playing semantics, I guess the point is proven. It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense. Killing Ursix has no meaning and a digital vinyl that costs effort (coin) or money (shards) has no meaning, other than the meaning we choose to give it. All of it should be fun to do (the perception of which varies individually), or don't do it. If it is fun and gives pleasure, I'd hazard it's just as harmless a way to spend your time and money as many other hobbies people have, perhaps more so.
I don't know if I agree with this. Rewards should justify your effort, and give you incentive to do the content. What is the biggest pain point in the game right now, Loot. Based on what you're saying people should be playing the game for fun, and if they never get a Legendary drop it's fine, because loot isn't the point for doing specific things.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 18:08:29 GMT
It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense. Killing Ursix has no meaning and a digital vinyl that costs effort (coin) or money (shards) has no meaning, other than the meaning we choose to give it. All of it should be fun to do (the perception of which varies individually), or don't do it. If it is fun and gives pleasure, I'd hazard it's just as harmless a way to spend your time and money as many other hobbies people have, perhaps more so.
I don't know if I agree with this. Rewards should justify your effort, and give you incentive to do the content. What is the biggest pain point in the game right now, Loot. Based on what you're saying people should be playing the game for fun, and if they never get a Legendary drop it's fine, because loot isn't the point for doing specific things.
They should give loot as rewards for that quest then, not money.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 26, 2019 18:13:08 GMT
I just know in Anthem killing 100 Ursix is a huge undertaking, seeing that they aren't common, and 1600 coin is a paltry reward considering that to even get an emote out the store you need 23K, let alone the 61K you would need for new armor.
Then don't do it.
These challenges are not set up like quests. In a quest, you get specific mission, you do it, you get a reward for it (be that coin, other resources or just new dialogue with an NPC or whatever). Challanges should be something that just happens to you while you are doing quests. If there is a challenge to kill 100 Ursixes (is that the plural?), it's meant as a reward for people who spend an enormous amount of time in the game doing other stuff and thus accumulate those 100 Ursix kills over time.
I'd rather be angry if this WAS a must-do quest because of a huge reward. Now that would piss me off, not the fact that this challenge is absolutely optional for all practical purposes.
As far as the general coin and ingame cost controversy is concerned, I see it like @grinch . It's only cosmetics, who really cares?
Yep...and you can get the same amount of COIN - 2,000 - doing relatively easy weekly challenges (ex, 5 contracts) as you can getting a cumulative reward for killing 100 Ursix. Between daily and weekly challenges, regular and Legendary contracts, Strongholds. and expeditions/exploration rewards along with the Alliance Coin you get weekly, I haven't had too much trouble accumulating enough COIN to buy what I want in a reasonable amount of time without spending a dollar beyond the price of the game. If you can't wait and just HAVE to buy shards, I say thank you for funding the future content I am going to enjoy.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 26, 2019 18:16:25 GMT
Based on what you're saying people should be playing the game for fun, and if they never get a Legendary drop it's fine, because loot isn't the point for doing specific things. Not exactly. Developing your kit and getting Legendaries is part of the fun. So is not having them all in 6 weeks.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 26, 2019 18:27:49 GMT
Based on what you're saying people should be playing the game for fun, and if they never get a Legendary drop it's fine, because loot isn't the point for doing specific things. Not exactly. Developing your kit and getting Legendaries is part of the fun. So is not having them all in 6 weeks.
So would getting some Ursix themed armor for killing 100 Ursix.
Either, to quote you.
It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense.
Or it's not.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 26, 2019 18:44:32 GMT
Problem is, by the time you’ve got enough coin, the item you like will have been cycled out. How long before it cycles back?
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 18:45:09 GMT
Not exactly. Developing your kit and getting Legendaries is part of the fun. So is not having them all in 6 weeks.
So would getting some Ursix themed armor for killing 100 Ursix.
Either, to quote you.
It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense.
Or it's not.
Right, the reward should match the effort. If this is a one time quest that you finish and never get to repeat, why not make the reward really good? Reward is part of the fun
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 18:45:54 GMT
Problem is, by the time you’ve got enough coin, the item you like will have been cycled out. How long before it cycles back? I don’t know. Why cycle at all?
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 26, 2019 18:51:43 GMT
How long before it cycles back? I don’t know. Why cycle at all? Come on, since ME3 we know that "the cycle must continue".
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 26, 2019 18:53:27 GMT
How long before it cycles back? Some items have cycled back. We don't yet have the pattern established for long enough to believe everything cycles back eventually, but they may well do. bsn.boards.net/post/1222599/thread
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 18:56:18 GMT
How long before it cycles back? Some items have cycled back. We don't yet have the pattern established for long enough to believe everything cycles back eventually, but they may well do. bsn.boards.net/post/1222599/threadHow long is one cycle?
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 18:58:18 GMT
I don’t know. Why cycle at all? Come on, since ME3 we know that "the cycle must continue". We should have been able to convince the reapers that the only winning move is not to play the game
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 26, 2019 19:02:42 GMT
Some items have cycled back. We don't yet have the pattern established for long enough to believe everything cycles back eventually, but they may well do. bsn.boards.net/post/1222599/threadHow long is one cycle? They change items every 3 days I believe.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 26, 2019 19:03:26 GMT
Come on, since ME3 we know that "the cycle must continue". We should have been able to convince the reapers that the only winning move is not to play the game Sorry to go so wildly off topic here but I can't resist to point out that this was already a secret message coded into the ending by the devs. Didn't you see it? The instructions were right there in front of you all this time.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 26, 2019 19:04:12 GMT
It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense. Killing Ursix has no meaning and a digital vinyl that costs effort (coin) or money (shards) has no meaning, other than the meaning we choose to give it. All of it should be fun to do (the perception of which varies individually), or don't do it. If it is fun and gives pleasure, I'd hazard it's just as harmless a way to spend your time and money as many other hobbies people have, perhaps more so.
I don't know if I agree with this. Rewards should justify your effort, and give you incentive to do the content. What is the biggest pain point in the game right now, Loot. Based on what you're saying people should be playing the game for fun, and if they never get a Legendary drop it's fine, because loot isn't the point for doing specific things.
Loot is pain point for GM2/GM3...there is really little reason to play solo or in teams beyond GM2 at this point and GM2's Legendary drops are not dissimilar to GM1 (just my experience). Right now, apart from Support Items, I have nothing in my inventory (now at 187 items) below a Masterwork, as epics serve essentially to supply materials for my sigils, and I have, in total, 36 Legendary items, including some obscene God Rolls. This was accumulated in about a little over 200 hrs of game play, with the majority in GM1. The next step for BioWare's loot master should be to incent players to play beyond GM1. If it were me: - Introduce Masterwork Sigils blueprints that can be acquired through completing GM2/GM3 level challenges - No epic items drop above GM1 with only epic embers to be collected for making sigils - Introduction of Legendary blueprints with increase Legendary drop rates at GM2/GM3 so you can breakdown duplicate or bad roll Legendary items in Legendary embers with 25 Legendary embers needed to create a new Legendary item roll - Introduction of "Shaper" weapons in GM3 only - "Red" drops - God-tier weapons that are super-rare with insane inscriptions - Ability to trade up embers to higher tiers - ex 300 rare embers = 25 Epic embers - or something like that...some reason to trade up your inventory of uncommon, rare, and epic embers that you find in freeplay that ultimately allows you to feed you Legendary re-rolls - Also, whole, rare and unique armor sets and vinyls that can only be obtained in GM3 Again, this is just me daydreaming so I am sure whoever they hire who has actual experience in these matters will likely come up with something better/ makes more sense.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 26, 2019 19:06:14 GMT
They really need to have a "permanent" store through access to the forge with only new items in rotation.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 19:10:49 GMT
We should have been able to convince the reapers that the only winning move is not to play the game Sorry to go so wildly off topic here but I can't resist to point out that this was already a secret message coded into the ending by the devs. Didn't you see it? The instructions were right there in front of you all this time. Sadly that image doesn’t show on my phone but I can see the link while quoting.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 26, 2019 19:11:01 GMT
So would getting some Ursix themed armor for killing 100 Ursix.
Either, to quote you.
It's a game, everything is stuff and nonsense.
Or it's not.
Right, the reward should match the effort. If this is a one time quest that you finish and never get to repeat, why not make the reward really good? Reward is part of the fun
I guess my biggest issue with the game was that it doesn't give you incentive to play it's content. Their goal is to frustrate you to the point that you spend real money.
Crafting: If I could pick the stats I wanted to put on items I'd gladly go out farming embers. But there's no incentive if you know you're going to have wasted your time by getting terrible results on your crafts. Then the game goes along with 5 embers per craft until Masterwork, where is scales ridiculously to 25 embers per craft. There's no way you can farm enough embers to make enough attempts to get something worthwhile. Then the embers are 5K in the store, 125K for one attempt at a craft if you went that route. Not worth using that part of the content once you reach the end game.
GM: If there were items that dropped on GM2 that didn't on GM1, I'd have gladly done them. Same with GM3. But since they're not, there's no incentive to progress through the content difficulty for no new rewards. There's not even any incentive to play all the strongholds on GM1 because there isn't even stronghold specific loot. Just play the easiest one over and over because you can get everything there is to offer there.
Who designs a game like this?
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 26, 2019 19:31:19 GMT
Right, the reward should match the effort. If this is a one time quest that you finish and never get to repeat, why not make the reward really good? Reward is part of the fun
I guess my biggest issue with the game was that it doesn't give you incentive to play it's content. Their goal is to frustrate you to the point that you spend real money.
Crafting: If I could pick the stats I wanted to put on items I'd gladly go out farming embers. But there's no incentive if you know you're going to have wasted your time by getting terrible results on your crafts. Then the game goes along with 5 embers per craft until Masterwork, where is scales ridiculously to 25 embers per craft. There's no way you can farm enough embers to make enough attempts to get something worthwhile. Then the embers are 5K in the store, 125K for one attempt at a craft if you went that route. Not worth using that part of the content once you reach the end game.
GM: If there were items that dropped on GM2 that didn't on GM1, I'd have gladly done them. Same with GM3. But since they're not, there's no incentive to progress through the content difficulty for no new rewards. There's not even any incentive to play all the strongholds on GM1 because there isn't even stronghold specific loot. Just play the easiest one over and over because you can get everything there is to offer there.
Who designs a game like this?
Yeah that sucks. You can’t even fix that with real money so that isn’t an incentive. If I ever play it I won’t bother with crafting. Not sure why I would ever play it really.
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Mobius Y
N3
The Legend Continues
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: Mobius Y
PSN: Mobius_Y
Posts: 878 Likes: 2,129
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Post by Mobius Y on Apr 26, 2019 20:28:07 GMT
The crafting’s only useful up to a certain point. Once you hit level 30, and your entire Javelin is decked out with Masterworks, crafting is borderline pointless. The exception is crafting copies of Masterworks in hopes of better inscriptions. Why add a game mechanic that is rendered moot after ten hours of gameplay? Huge potential with crafting, and sadly it’s just wasted in this game.
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