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Post by dragontartare on Aug 27, 2016 3:19:18 GMT
You guys...I'm doing a jerk playthrough of DAO and my warden just reached Lothering. She strolled up to a random Templar in order to verbally abuse him, and... it's Gideon Emery again. Random Lothering Templar is Fenris. I almost had to make her be nice. Awesome! Thanks for posting that. I wish BioWare had done an interview with him like they have with some of the other voice actors (at least, I don't see it on YouTube).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 7:28:07 GMT
@lythinae - Varania must have know Denarius, in first time when she had deal with him to sell back Fenris. She must have been aware what he did to slaves. I doubt Fenris was the only one slave which Denarius who was real Magister from Magisterium have. I bet he had full house of slaves, but Fenris was his special favourite. In many matters. I doubt Varania since she was slave before could not hear rumors from other slaves about real abusage of Denarius to Fenris back in the day. Not to mention daily abuses to any other slave which further proof how big monster Denarius was. And yet she must have ignored this and go like "okay. I will sell Leto to you, but promise me of being your student". As much as I would like to make Varania any less evil I can't. I simply can't. She might have known. Hell, she might have experienced some of the same things. Slavery (and the abuse of slaves) is the norm in Tevinter. It's socially acceptable, and any attempts at revolution are stamped out pretty quickly. Look at Dorian's attitude towards it - he doesn't think it's a big deal, Without any exposure to something different, it's no wonder she thinks what she does. It's highly likely that anyone in her position would have done the same thing - Danarius even says as much. She's essentially a product of a system that says it's OK to treat people like that. Why she does it? Self preservation is also an easy answer. If she becomes an actual Magister (how ever unlikely it might actually be), she's in a much safer position. Allying with Danarius gives her power to protect herself that she wouldn't otherwise have. She may have been desperate; where did her and her mother go after they were freed? It's mentioned she's a tailor (which historically was something very specific, it wasn't just a catch at for someone who made clothes), but plenty of people would have had slaves to do that too (it's something that also happen in Ancient Rome; the huge number of slaves who didn't get paid pushed the wages down for free workers, which meant a lot of them ended up worse off than a favoured slave would have). But the society she lives in also says that it's something that should be done. Don't get me wrong, it's still a hugely shitty thing to do, but I think there's a lot more to it than just being 'evil'.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Aug 27, 2016 13:28:27 GMT
@lythinae - Varania must have know Denarius, in first time when she had deal with him to sell back Fenris. She must have been aware what he did to slaves. I doubt Fenris was the only one slave which Denarius who was real Magister from Magisterium have. I bet he had full house of slaves, but Fenris was his special favourite. In many matters. I doubt Varania since she was slave before could not hear rumors from other slaves about real abusage of Denarius to Fenris back in the day. Not to mention daily abuses to any other slave which further proof how big monster Denarius was. And yet she must have ignored this and go like "okay. I will sell Leto to you, but promise me of being your student". As much as I would like to make Varania any less evil I can't. I simply can't. She might have known. Hell, she might have experienced some of the same things. Slavery (and the abuse of slaves) is the norm in Tevinter. It's socially acceptable, and any attempts at revolution are stamped out pretty quickly. Look at Dorian's attitude towards it - he doesn't think it's a big deal, Without any exposure to something different, it's no wonder she thinks what she does. It's highly likely that anyone in her position would have done the same thing - Danarius even says as much. She's essentially a product of a system that says it's OK to treat people like that. Why she does it? Self preservation is also an easy answer. If she becomes an actual Magister (how ever unlikely it might actually be), she's in a much safer position. Allying with Danarius gives her power to protect herself that she wouldn't otherwise have. She may have been desperate; where did her and her mother go after they were freed? It's mentioned she's a tailor (which historically was something very specific, it wasn't just a catch at for someone who made clothes), but plenty of people would have had slaves to do that too (it's something that also happen in Ancient Rome; the huge number of slaves who didn't get paid pushed the wages down for free workers, which meant a lot of them ended up worse off than a favoured slave would have). But the society she lives in also says that it's something that should be done. Don't get me wrong, it's still a hugely shitty thing to do, but I think there's a lot more to it than just being 'evil'. When she's trying to explain herself she says that she 'had no choice', and that he was going to make her his apprentice so she would be a magister. That he had no idea what she had gone through and had to do since their mother died. Fenris freed her and their mother as his boon for winning the competition to get the lyrium. What was so bad about NOT being a slave that she would turn on him? Also, the fact that she was dumb enough to think that Danarius would have followed through on making her his apprentice (sigh), really she was just not very smart. But I don't think she was evil either. She comes across as a bit vindictive though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 23:22:02 GMT
She could have gone from having a relatively easy life - a tailor (or anything similar) would have had some value, but once they were on their own that skill may not have actually paid well since other households would have also had slaves, and 'regular' people may not have been able to afford one - to being homeless. I highly doubt Dan would have organised somewhere for them to go. I've no doubt he manipulated the fuck out of her once she went to him. There's no way he would have helped into actual rank and power, and personally I think she would have just ended up as a slave in everything but name. Spitefulness/vindictiveness/bitterness is part of it, I think. Her last bit of dialogue (if you leave her alive) is definitely meant to hurt.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 28, 2016 0:06:36 GMT
She might have known. Hell, she might have experienced some of the same things. Slavery (and the abuse of slaves) is the norm in Tevinter. It's socially acceptable, and any attempts at revolution are stamped out pretty quickly. Look at Dorian's attitude towards it - he doesn't think it's a big deal, Without any exposure to something different, it's no wonder she thinks what she does. It's highly likely that anyone in her position would have done the same thing - Danarius even says as much. She's essentially a product of a system that says it's OK to treat people like that. Why she does it? Self preservation is also an easy answer. If she becomes an actual Magister (how ever unlikely it might actually be), she's in a much safer position. Allying with Danarius gives her power to protect herself that she wouldn't otherwise have. She may have been desperate; where did her and her mother go after they were freed? It's mentioned she's a tailor (which historically was something very specific, it wasn't just a catch at for someone who made clothes), but plenty of people would have had slaves to do that too (it's something that also happen in Ancient Rome; the huge number of slaves who didn't get paid pushed the wages down for free workers, which meant a lot of them ended up worse off than a favoured slave would have). But the society she lives in also says that it's something that should be done. Don't get me wrong, it's still a hugely shitty thing to do, but I think there's a lot more to it than just being 'evil'. When she's trying to explain herself she says that she 'had no choice', and that he was going to make her his apprentice so she would be a magister. That he had no idea what she had gone through and had to do since their mother died. Fenris freed her and their mother as his boon for winning the competition to get the lyrium. What was so bad about NOT being a slave that she would turn on him? Also, the fact that she was dumb enough to think that Danarius would have followed through on making her his apprentice (sigh), really she was just not very smart. But I don't think she was evil either. She comes across as a bit vindictive though. Extreme poverty? No food? No shelter? Maybe she had to turn to prostitution? We really have no idea, and since I've never been that desperate, I personally cannot imagine. I don't condone what she did, at all. But since she was raised in a society that does NOT view slavery as "evil" in and of itself, and if going free meant she lost whatever guarantee she had of food, shelter, and security, then I can see why she might think that Fenris freeing her made her life worse. Even Fenris didn't realize how bad he had it, at first. Neither did Orana. Possibly, if she hadn't been offered the faintest opportunity to become a magister (or so she thinks) -- that is, if she was only given the option of returning to slavery -- she might not have betrayed Fenris. It might be more the lust for power that motivated her to do this, rather than just spitefulness.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 28, 2016 22:41:49 GMT
I found more art, so I guess I'll just respond to myself. via tumblrvia deviantart (follow the links in the description if you want to see Hawke's reaction)
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 29, 2016 20:48:43 GMT
@ lythinae - Well I could understand that she was desperate. I can imagine that she was tailor as well as when she says "You have no idea what I had to do after our mother died !" she meant she sold herself as prostitute very possibly. But I just can't agree with fact that she wanted to sell Fenris. Again. To Denarius. I may understand why she didn't left the Tevinter since she is a mage. But I am not sure what is worse - being in such poverty as she probably was after being freed, or living in North Circles as mage. I just ... couldn't she leave Tevinter behind if she had nothing to lose anyway ?
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 29, 2016 22:57:23 GMT
So, am I the only one completely amazed by the fact that Fenris, a slave that for so long was unable to read, learnt to speak at least 3 different languages (Tevene, Common and Qunlat)? So he is not only sexy, he really is smart too!
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 29, 2016 23:07:12 GMT
@ lythinae - Well I could understand that she was desperate. I can imagine that she was tailor as well as when she says "You have no idea what I had to do after our mother died !" she meant she sold herself as prostitute very possibly. But I just can't agree with fact that she wanted to sell Fenris. Again. To Denarius. I may understand why she didn't left the Tevinter since she is a mage. But I am not sure what is worse - being in such poverty as she probably was after being freed, or living in North Circles as mage. I just ... couldn't she leave Tevinter behind if she had nothing to lose anyway ? I'm sure it was about more than just "nothing to lose." She thought she would actually have something to gain by giving Fenris up to Danarius. Hell, it's possible she even thought she was helping Fenris by "saving" him from freedom. It sounds crazy to us, of course, but she grew up in a very different world than any of us did. Regardless, you say "leave Tevinter behind" like that's no big deal. Can you imagine being peniless and having to leave the only home you ever knew? It wouldn't be a trivial thing. Where would you go? How would you get there? How would you get supplies for your journey if you don't even have enough money to make a life for yourself where you already are? It's such a tragedy that Varania didn't reach out to Fenris to ask for his help. Maybe she really did assume that he must be homeless and scrounging in the streets for scraps. QuizzyBunny I don't find it surprising (my grandmother spoke three languages reasonably well, and could just barely read one of them), but I do find it very cool
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 29, 2016 23:15:32 GMT
dragontartare: Well, he must have picked up Qunlat purely based on the few (?) interactions he got with the Qunari while he was living with the Fog Warriors (and from my understanding that was a very limited time) so he must have picked it up really fast! So I wouldn't call it surprising, but amazing all the same when considering his very special circumstances.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 29, 2016 23:47:40 GMT
@ lythinae - Well I could understand that she was desperate. I can imagine that she was tailor as well as when she says "You have no idea what I had to do after our mother died !" she meant she sold herself as prostitute very possibly. But I just can't agree with fact that she wanted to sell Fenris. Again. To Denarius. I may understand why she didn't left the Tevinter since she is a mage. But I am not sure what is worse - being in such poverty as she probably was after being freed, or living in North Circles as mage. I just ... couldn't she leave Tevinter behind if she had nothing to lose anyway ? I'm sure it was about more than just "nothing to lose." She thought she would actually have something to gain by giving Fenris up to Danarius. Hell, it's possible she even thought she was helping Fenris by "saving" him from freedom. It sounds crazy to us, of course, but she grew up in a very different world than any of us did. Regardless, you say "leave Tevinter behind" like that's no big deal. Can you imagine being peniless and having to leave the only home you ever knew? It wouldn't be a trivial thing. Where would you go? How would you get there? How would you get supplies for your journey if you don't even have enough money to make a life for yourself where you already are? It's such a tragedy that Varania didn't reach out to Fenris to ask for his help. Maybe she really did assume that he must be homeless and scrounging in the streets for scraps. QuizzyBunny I don't find it surprising (my grandmother spoke three languages reasonably well, and could just barely read one of them), but I do find it very cool She was a slave or someone very poor. She actually did seem disgusted by what she had to do after mother died. Like she don't want to remember. She did it in Tevinter, she was there slave, there her mother died, she has lost her brother whoever he was before since Denarius experiments turned him into Fenris .. I don't think she have good memories of this place. Especially since she is also an elf. She was a tailor, I guess she could get money from it. Not sure how hard things were, but I think she actually may save up a little. Especially if she was already ready to sell out her body for money too. I don't know, from mine side her Tevinter life seem horrible. From beggining to end. I don't think she should cry much after it. If she would be a servant in such Antiva she would get more money than as servant in Tevinter, where she must compete with slaves. And if she would be noticed as apostate then consider how traumatic for her must have been days after mother died (prostitution) I doubt Circle life (which such Wynne who was homeless kid compared as better life) would be worse experiance than what already Varania experianced. There are people who are not patriots after all. Slaves in general should not be patriots, the only one slut who was elven Tevinter patriot was slaver herself and I had good time in ending her life there. But overall I agree, it's pity that this was the only way to see Varania. And it is such bad scene ... She is sooo ... well. She should have tag with "I'm a pro-slave slut" during quest QuizzyBunny - Well he learned them from hearing. Fog Warriors were responsible for Qunlat, Tevene since he was from Tevinter and people speaks this there, and common ... I think it's also Fog Warriors doings. I may don't remember correctly but wasn't Denarius using Fenris in dealings with Qunari overall ? Fenris was mentioning that he was used by him to scare some Qunari (?) guests back in game.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 30, 2016 0:00:46 GMT
I'm sure it was about more than just "nothing to lose." She thought she would actually have something to gain by giving Fenris up to Danarius. Hell, it's possible she even thought she was helping Fenris by "saving" him from freedom. It sounds crazy to us, of course, but she grew up in a very different world than any of us did. Regardless, you say "leave Tevinter behind" like that's no big deal. Can you imagine being peniless and having to leave the only home you ever knew? It wouldn't be a trivial thing. Where would you go? How would you get there? How would you get supplies for your journey if you don't even have enough money to make a life for yourself where you already are? It's such a tragedy that Varania didn't reach out to Fenris to ask for his help. Maybe she really did assume that he must be homeless and scrounging in the streets for scraps. QuizzyBunny I don't find it surprising (my grandmother spoke three languages reasonably well, and could just barely read one of them), but I do find it very cool She was a slave or someone very poor. She actually did seem disgusted by what she had to do after mother died. Like she don't want to remember. She did it in Tevinter, she was there slave, there her mother died, she has lost her brother whoever he was before since Denarius experiments turned him into Fenris .. I don't think she have good memories of this place. Especially since she is also an elf. She was a tailor, I guess she could get money from it. Not sure how hard things were, but I think she actually may save up a little. Especially if she was already ready to sell out her body for money too. I don't know, from mine side her Tevinter life seem horrible. From beggining to end. I don't think she should cry much after it. If she would be a servant in such Antiva she would get more money than as servant in Tevinter, where she must compete with slaves. And if she would be noticed as apostate then consider how traumatic for her must have been days after mother died (prostitution) I doubt Circle life (which such Wynne who was homeless kid compared as better life) would be worse experiance than what already Varania experianced. There are people who are not patriots after all. Slaves in general should not be patriots, the only one slut who was elven Tevinter patriot was slaver herself and I had good time in ending her life there. But overall I agree, it's pity that this was the only way to see Varania. And it is such bad scene ... She is sooo ... well. She should have tag with "I'm a pro-slave slut" during quest QuizzyBunny - Well he learned them from hearing. Fog Warriors were responsible for Qunlat, Tevene since he was from Tevinter and people speaks this there, and common ... I think it's also Fog Warriors doings. I may don't remember correctly but wasn't Denarius using Fenris in dealings with Qunari overall ? Fenris was mentioning that he was used by him to scare some Qunari (?) guests back in game. Yes, but how would she get to Antiva? That would require money she probably didn't have. Remember that she has lived all her life in a society that views the southern mage circles as prisons (which they are ) It's better to be a mage in a circle than to be a slave in Tevinter, but she wouldn't have known that. I think calling her a slut is immensely unfair of you, though. If she had to turn to prostitution to survive, that is hardly a reflection of her moral character.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 30, 2016 0:15:47 GMT
She was a slave or someone very poor. She actually did seem disgusted by what she had to do after mother died. Like she don't want to remember. She did it in Tevinter, she was there slave, there her mother died, she has lost her brother whoever he was before since Denarius experiments turned him into Fenris .. I don't think she have good memories of this place. Especially since she is also an elf. She was a tailor, I guess she could get money from it. Not sure how hard things were, but I think she actually may save up a little. Especially if she was already ready to sell out her body for money too. I don't know, from mine side her Tevinter life seem horrible. From beggining to end. I don't think she should cry much after it.If she would be a servant in such Antiva she would get more money than as servant in Tevinter, where she must compete with slaves. And if she would be noticed as apostate then consider how traumatic for her must have been days after mother died (prostitution) I doubt Circle life (which such Wynne who was homeless kid compared as better life) would be worse experiance than what already Varania experianced. There are people who are not patriots after all. Slaves in general should not be patriots, the only one slut who was elven Tevinter patriot was slaver herself and I had good time in ending her life there. But overall I agree, it's pity that this was the only way to see Varania. And it is such bad scene ... She is sooo ... well. She should have tag with "I'm a pro-slave slut" during quest [...] It was her home. This is what she knew. There is no Internet, no TV, and she was only a tailor (Fenris sent him money for travel). And: she was ALONE. Are you sure, that she hate Tevinter? She maybe hate her life, but why she think, that if she go out of Tevinter, she will live better? You know Ferelden, you know Kirkwall, for example, but I not sure, she know so much about those. Not mentioned, that I think, Kirkwall not good for an elf mage, I can say: not better than Tevinter.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 30, 2016 13:25:32 GMT
She was a slave or someone very poor. She actually did seem disgusted by what she had to do after mother died. Like she don't want to remember. She did it in Tevinter, she was there slave, there her mother died, she has lost her brother whoever he was before since Denarius experiments turned him into Fenris .. I don't think she have good memories of this place. Especially since she is also an elf. She was a tailor, I guess she could get money from it. Not sure how hard things were, but I think she actually may save up a little. Especially if she was already ready to sell out her body for money too. I don't know, from mine side her Tevinter life seem horrible. From beggining to end. I don't think she should cry much after it.If she would be a servant in such Antiva she would get more money than as servant in Tevinter, where she must compete with slaves. And if she would be noticed as apostate then consider how traumatic for her must have been days after mother died (prostitution) I doubt Circle life (which such Wynne who was homeless kid compared as better life) would be worse experiance than what already Varania experianced. There are people who are not patriots after all. Slaves in general should not be patriots, the only one slut who was elven Tevinter patriot was slaver herself and I had good time in ending her life there. But overall I agree, it's pity that this was the only way to see Varania. And it is such bad scene ... She is sooo ... well. She should have tag with "I'm a pro-slave slut" during quest [...] It was her home. This is what she knew. There is no Internet, no TV, and she was only a tailor (Fenris sent him money for travel). And: she was ALONE. Are you sure, that she hate Tevinter? She maybe hate her life, but why she think, that if she go out of Tevinter, she will live better? You know Ferelden, you know Kirkwall, for example, but I not sure, she know so much about those. Not mentioned, that I think, Kirkwall not good for an elf mage, I can say: not better than Tevinter. Why would she even call it "home" ? She should at very least have trauma from being there. She must have known already that slavery exists only in Tevinter. She could ask any slave about this - many were kidnapped from places which didn't had slavery. This one alone should tell her how things are. If she is troubling with getting paid for work as servant because she must compete with slaves then why don't left Tevinter for such Antiva ? There is economical migration in our world. Varania seem like perfect example of someone who should economically migrate. She have nothing to lose, nobody to take care of in Tevinter. Since she is very poor I doubt they had land on their own or home. Tevinter is only a place. A place very hostile to elves in general. A place in constant war with Qunari. A place where people are kiddnapped to be made slaves ... Tevinter is such bad place that we arleady heard Fenris and Dorian opinions about it. Varania is not magister. She is free elf. Not a slave but servant. Kirkwall Circle is bad. That's it when it comes to Kirkwall. But you have Circles in Antiva, Circle in Ostwick, Circles in Nevarra, Circle in Starkhaven was burnt down actually (thanks Grace you cow), Circle in Cumberland etc. You have many Circles and none was like Kirkwall one - which was notorius on entire Thedas to be the most hard one. Just look at history of their First Enchanters. Orisino was the youngest First Enchanter in entire Thedas, because NOBODY wanted to be First Enchanter of Kirkwall Circle, only Orisino. Such Ostwick Circle was very stable and safe, I think it was Cumberland Circle which was allowing mages to have families and live with them in it. Varania seem like not exacly trained mage, that's why she was seeking help from Denarius. I don't believe Varania is a patriot to Tevinter at all. dragontartare - Well if Varania is an idiot (which she is) then what I can say ? She is upset over her own stupidity I guess. Blames Fenris for her own cretinism which forced her to think that it is his fault that she is not able to think clearly. Compete with slaves ... I doubt she was prostitute for free. I think she charged clients, just like when she was a tailor she must have get payment. And yeah about Circles being worse than her life ... She already was desperate to become prostitute and is very upset over it. And now she will tell how bad things are in Circles of South ? What a joke. Wynne was in the same situation as her. No parents, all alone, no food, no money, no home ... and a mage. Untrained mage. Varania is older than Wynne was only. So save up money, and migrate at once. She was ready to get money as prostitute ? Then use it wisely and run away from Tevinter because in Tevinter there is none future for her. I wonder what she will do once Denarius is dead, and Fenris don't want to know her any longer. She is in Kirkwall now ... I called her a slut because of what she wanted to do for Denarius. She used Fenris, to give him back to abusive magister for her own greed. Prostitute is a prostitute, and slut is a slut. Those two do not equal.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 30, 2016 15:19:36 GMT
Why Wynne call home the Circle?
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 30, 2016 17:24:25 GMT
Wow...First, please look up the word "slut", because I don't think you know what it means. Also, I don't understand the point of comparing Wynne with Varania. Wynne was neither an elf nor a slave, and she wasn't raised in Tevinter. Of course she would charge clients for sex. That's the point. It's quite possible that at some point, selling herself was the only way she could earn enough money to survive. That doesn't mean she enjoyed it, and it certainly doesn't make her a slut. You seem unwilling, or unable, to consider that someone who was raised very, very differently from you would have very different perspectives on what is easy and what is hard. You, sitting comfortably in your 21st century industrialized (presumably) life, think it's no big deal to just pick up and move to a different country with no resources for the journey. I will ask you again: how is Varania supposed to know that being prisoner in a circle could be better than being dirt poor in Tevinter? How does she know she won't be immediately executed for having been an apostate for so long (again, think about what she had been raised to believe)? How is she supposed to fund her journey to Antiva when she is possibly too poor to even eat on a regular basis? Do you think someone is just going to take her for free?
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 31, 2016 22:28:16 GMT
Why Wynne call home the Circle? Because it was her home. She was without home, orphan, who was not really able to handle her magic. Population in Thedas towards mages is like Anders biological father. Or like Amell family. "Mage ? In my family !?! That's horrible !" Now there is three way of reacting: Anders father style "I am ashamed that this boy .. this mage ... is my son. (to templars) Please take him away." And then you have Amell/Hawke style "Okay, we have magical kids. We need to hid them and keep them safe from templars !" Wynne parents "She is a mage. We don't need that. Let's take her somewhere where she can get lost from us, and perhaps trouble will fade away." Ferelden Circle was way more like Ostwick Circle. A home, a school, a place with Templars who were not only bunch of sadists. They were more like Sir Barris or those in Ferelden Circle (except traumatized Cullen) Wynne loved that place, it was her home - it was safe for her, around her friends and place where she can without fear practice her magic. There is plenty of evidence that Circle matter is not like Justice (who is a damn demon now) is claiming. It is two sided, like Templar Order. You have good sides and bad sides. And Fenris knew that. That's why he wasn't condamning Templars and neither did he forgot that Circle has a point when it comes to it's existance. dragontartare - "Slut" in mine NATIVE language one means "Zdzira". And only ZDZIRA. Zdzira is someone who is NOT a prostitute. Zdzira is kind of female person (or even male) who is just awfull from behaving, many times likes to fly from guy/girl to guy/girl for their own pleasure. Zdzira/Slut however demands this person to be SELFISH (like Varania), GREEDY (like Varania), UNCOMPASSIONABLE (like Varania) and over all very RUDE (like Varania) So to put in short Varania IS slut. Her being for one point prostitute is meaningless. You have Prostitute - a job. And Slut - a way of being. There is no other translation of "Zdzira" than Slut into English. Little translations: Protytutka - Protitute. A job only. Zdzira - Slut. A way of being, matter of character. Dziwka - Bitch. Uglier version of calling prostitute only.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 31, 2016 22:43:25 GMT
Why Wynne call home the Circle? Because it was her home. [...] Thats the point. And now you can see my point: Varania's home was Tevinter. You see? That's simple.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 31, 2016 22:47:37 GMT
Because it was her home. [...] Thats the point. And now you can see my point: Varania's home was Tevinter. You see? That's simple. No ? Tevinter is just a country big enough where she was born. Wynne was born somewhere else than Circle. And yet she found home only once reaching safety of Circle. Not on farm with those farmers since their oldest stone was rude to her and bullied her like throwing stones at her. Varania complains about her life. So she wasn't happy in Tevinter. That means Tevinter is NOT her "home". She is not happy there, not safe there, she has nobody there too. All those things should be for place to call "home" and she don't have it. For example for romanced Fenris "home" is where Hawke is. Only there, with Hawke he may feel like he has home. The same with other romanced characters. "Home" is mostly state of feeling, not exacly the place. "Home" feeling may be depended on some person presence. Perhaps we argue about two differend words. Because for Varania or Fenris Tevinter is rather "homeland" not "home". Those two words are not exacly equal in either mine native language and neither in English since that kind of lesson about difference in meaning is taken live from Lonesome Road dlc to Fallout New Vegas too.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 31, 2016 23:05:33 GMT
Thats the point. And now you can see my point: Varania's home was Tevinter. You see? That's simple. No ? Tevinter is just a country big enough where she was born. Wynne was born somewhere else than Circle. And yet she found home only once reaching safety of Circle. Not on farm with those farmers since their oldest stone was rude to her and bullied her like throwing stones at her. Varania complains about her life. So she wasn't happy in Tevinter. That means Tevinter is NOT her "home". She is not happy there, not safe there, she has nobody there too. All those things should be for place to call "home" and she don't have it. For example for romanced Fenris "home" is where Hawke is. Only there, with Hawke he may feel like he has home. The same with other romanced characters. "Home" is mostly state of feeling, not exacly the place. "Home" feeling may be depended on some person presence. The Circle/Chantry took Winne's child away from her. What What would you do in such cases? Would be happy to admit that they are right? And that's just one thing, about we know... The Circle not better than Tevinter. Varania have a "Hawke" as Fenris had? No. Wynne and Varania was alone.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 31, 2016 23:20:41 GMT
No ? Tevinter is just a country big enough where she was born. Wynne was born somewhere else than Circle. And yet she found home only once reaching safety of Circle. Not on farm with those farmers since their oldest stone was rude to her and bullied her like throwing stones at her. Varania complains about her life. So she wasn't happy in Tevinter. That means Tevinter is NOT her "home". She is not happy there, not safe there, she has nobody there too. All those things should be for place to call "home" and she don't have it. For example for romanced Fenris "home" is where Hawke is. Only there, with Hawke he may feel like he has home. The same with other romanced characters. "Home" is mostly state of feeling, not exacly the place. "Home" feeling may be depended on some person presence. The Circle/Chantry took Winne's child away from her. What What would you do in such cases? Would be happy to admit that they are right? And that's just one thing, about we know... The Circle not better than Tevinter. Varania have a "Hawke" as Fenris had? No. Wynne and Varania was alone. Wynne had regret to herself that she would fight if she wasn't that weak. And she did not said it was Circle. She blamed CHANTRY. That's the point. It was CHANTRY who took it. Not First Enchanter. Not even this templar who was father. I believe this Templar also didn't wanted to have this child taken away. Why would I do ? I would blame Chantry. Not Irving. He did nothing. Not even the Templars since they weren't there to took this kid. It was some Chantry Mother who took it from Wynne. Chantry is corrupted to the core after all. Tevinter is hell ... I am surprised that Varania is still even alive. Knowing Tevinter she could be as well kidnapped by magister of some sort and used to blood magic. Like one note said when elves vanish in Tevinter nobody notices it. The same fate could have happened to Varania. Exacly she don't have anybody in Tevinter. She only had Fenris who actually WANTED to meet her, WANTED to reconnect with her. And she screw it all up. He actually CARED for her. Again Wynne wasn't alone in Circle. She had friends, she even got there this lover at one point. She said that she never was alone, that was for her miracle of Circle of Magi itself. She finally wasn't alone in Circle. She had friends in other mages. They have helped each other at various points. She even has special talk about this matter if you play as City Elf (like I did).
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Post by Catilina on Aug 31, 2016 23:38:00 GMT
The Circle/Chantry took Winne's child away from her. What What would you do in such cases? Would be happy to admit that they are right? And that's just one thing, about we know... The Circle not better than Tevinter. Varania have a "Hawke" as Fenris had? No. Wynne and Varania was alone. Wynne had regret to herself that she would fight if she wasn't that weak. And she did not said it was Circle. She blamed CHANTRY. That's the point. It was CHANTRY who took it. Not First Enchanter. Not even this templar who was father. I believe this Templar also didn't wanted to have this child taken away. Why would I do ? I would blame Chantry. Not Irving. He did nothing. Not even the Templars since they weren't there to took this kid. It was some Chantry Mother who took it from Wynne. Chantry is corrupted to the core after all. Tevinter is hell ... I am surprised that Varania is still even alive. Knowing Tevinter she could be as well kidnapped by magister of some sort and used to blood magic. Like one note said when elves vanish in Tevinter nobody notices it. The same fate could have happened to Varania. Exacly she don't have anybody in Tevinter. She only had Fenris who actually WANTED to meet her, WANTED to reconnect with her. And she screw it all up. He actually CARED for her. Again Wynne wasn't alone in Circle. She had friends, she even got there this lover at one point. She said that she never was alone, that was for her miracle of Circle of Magi itself. She finally wasn't alone in Circle. She had friends in other mages. They have helped each other at various points. She even has special talk about this matter if you play as City Elf (like I did). The Circle = Chantry (In the DA:O, DA:A and DA2). You cant separate this two. Not Irving was? Not the Circle? Then why not stop it? Wynne was alone. All Circle mages are alone, if they are in trouble. Do you know how many people survived in ancient Rome (included slaves)? Tevinter = Rome. Tevinter not "Hell". You from this modern world can see Tevinter as Hell. Tevinter not good place for an elf, but Varania was free. Varania's situation was not worse, than one Ferelden/Kirkwall city elf's situation. You had wrote: she was tailor, she had money...
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 31, 2016 23:43:05 GMT
Wow, so I just feel that I have to point this out - as far as I care people can think whatever they want about a character, it is none of my business. So if you had Fenris kill Varania that is fine. If you gave Fenris to Danarius that is fine too (although the thought does make me cry on the inside). But to go around calling a character a slut for whatever reason I do not think is OK, purely because it is insulting and inflammatory. For this thread to be a welcoming place I advice people to consider their wording, if not for the character's sake but for those who might care for that character.
Carry on!
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Post by Catilina on Aug 31, 2016 23:47:00 GMT
Wow, so I just feel that I have to point this out - as far as I care people can think whatever they want about a character, it is none of my business. So if you had Fenris kill Varania that is fine. If you gave Fenris to Danarius that is fine too (although the thought does make me cry on the inside). But to go around calling a character a slut for whatever reason I do not think is OK, purely because it is insulting and inflammatory. For this thread to be a welcoming place I advice people to consider their wording, if not for the character's sake but for those who might care for that character. Carry on! I never let Fenris to kill Varania. Not for Varania (I can understand Fenris's anger toward her), rather for Fenris.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 31, 2016 23:51:22 GMT
Catilina: In my canon playthrough I had Fenris spare Varania, both for his sake (she is his only living relative, and I was unsure if he could live with the possible guilt) and Varania's (I pity her; her life seems to have dealt her som harsh blows, and although what she did was terrible I did not find it unforgivable like what Danarius did). Varania looks so different in coloring from Fenris, I wonder if they were only half siblings?
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