duckley
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by duckley on May 19, 2019 16:53:38 GMT
I liked most everything - including some of the stuff, others disliked, Some of the petty things that annoyed me were:
I thought it was weird that there were no children anywhere The hair styles were awful in the character creator The War Table mission loot was useless The trial rewards were pretty crappy too Orlesian culture, accents, masks etc - especially the masks - really you couldnt even drink with them on
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Obadiah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on May 19, 2019 17:43:21 GMT
Dungeon exploration - this I understand. Open world encounters - I understand.
Open world exploration just for the sake of finding stupid shit (lore, materials, treasure, encounters) hidden out in the area is stupid. If its optional and the kids wanna go do it, fine. But if the devs hide important lore or story mechanics behind it... ugh. Its worse if they just chock the area full of the crap for the player to "find", it just makes the whole story difficult to take seriously.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on May 19, 2019 18:01:32 GMT
Open world exploration just for the sake of finding stupid shit (lore, materials, treasure, encounters) hidden out in the area is stupid. What is the purpose of exploration if not to find stuff, stupid or otherwise?
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Post by dagless on May 19, 2019 20:47:38 GMT
Open world exploration just for the sake of finding stupid shit (lore, materials, treasure, encounters) hidden out in the area is stupid. What is the purpose of exploration if not to find stuff, stupid or otherwise? Finding interesting characters, triggering in depth side quests should be the main thing, IMO. Even better if some of those side quests can relate back to and affect the main story. If there’s something meaty to discover by exploring, then stumbling on loot, collectibles and snippets of lore along the way can be a good bonus. Otherwise it’s only much good for completionists, or grinding to level up. I thought many areas in Inquisition were absolutely beautifully designed, but the game didn’t really make me want to go out and see it once I realised I there wasn’t a lot of proper role playing stuff in it. Bit of a waste of all that work, really,
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on May 19, 2019 21:46:18 GMT
What is the purpose of exploration if not to find stuff, stupid or otherwise? Finding interesting characters, triggering in depth side quests should be the main thing, IMO. Even better if some of those side quests can relate back to and affect the main story. If there’s something meaty to discover by exploring, then stumbling on loot, collectibles and snippets of lore along the way can be a good bonus. Otherwise it’s only much good for completionists, or grinding to level up. I thought many areas in Inquisition were absolutely beautifully designed, but the game didn’t really make me want to go out and see it once I realised I there wasn’t a lot of proper role playing stuff in it. Bit of a wast of all that work, really, There are a lot of valid reasons to explore or scout an open world, but the endeavor is much more realistic when it is abstracted (for example to an overland map), and the encounters therein are restricted to small encounter areas to explore. The idea that a player would walk the entire map in game is just ridiculous. To me DAI was kind of absurd just because the distances weren't even enough to account for a proper area of farmland surrounding a village.
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Post by dagless on May 19, 2019 23:19:34 GMT
Finding interesting characters, triggering in depth side quests should be the main thing, IMO. Even better if some of those side quests can relate back to and affect the main story. If there’s something meaty to discover by exploring, then stumbling on loot, collectibles and snippets of lore along the way can be a good bonus. Otherwise it’s only much good for completionists, or grinding to level up. I thought many areas in Inquisition were absolutely beautifully designed, but the game didn’t really make me want to go out and see it once I realised I there wasn’t a lot of proper role playing stuff in it. Bit of a wast of all that work, really, There are a lot of valid reasons to explore or scout an open world, but the endeavor is much more realistic when it is abstracted (for example to an overland map), and the encounters therein are restricted to small encounter areas to explore. The idea that a player would walk the entire map in game is just ridiculous. To me DAI was kind of absurd just because the distances weren't even enough to account for a proper area of farmland surrounding a village. Ah, fair enough. That’s a different issue to what I thought you meant. Scale is an inevitable problem with open world games, particularly when restricted to traveling by foot or horse. Some games manage to cover it up better than others. Oblivion was the worst offender for me, with a ruin or dungeon every 100m, if that.. Always remember leaving the city at the beginning, and crossing the river to the first of so many undead infested forts. As in just outside the god damn capital city gates. How did the city guard not notice? Or did the Emperor just think it was cool to leave all these obvious threats everywhere throughout the kingdom? Inquisition didn’t bother me too much on that front. It was still different areas on a map, and although those areas were supposed to be large regions, it was easy enough to just ignore that and consider them as a specific points of interest.
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Post by river82 on May 19, 2019 23:53:21 GMT
Oblivion was the worst offender for me, with a ruin or dungeon every 100m, if that.. Always remember leaving the city at the beginning, and crossing the river to the first of so many undead infested forts. As in just outside the god damn capital city gates. How did the city guard not notice? Or did the Emperor just think it was cool to leave all these obvious threats everywhere throughout the kingdom? Infested ruins lures adventurers. After adventuring these adventurers will share whatever scavenged treasure they find with nearby towns. The mayors of these towns, greedy for trade, will order the city guard and the army to leave the ruins alone xD That's what anime has taught me anyway #DubiousStrategies101
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Post by dagless on May 20, 2019 0:28:17 GMT
Of course, adventurer trickle down economics. How could I have not thought of that.
This is why I’d never make a good politician.
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Post by Vall on May 20, 2019 0:45:37 GMT
If quests are not worth doing once you hit level cap, I think it's the quest design (both narrative and rewards) that should be questioned, not the level cap. Let me put it this way: playing DAI with the "Take It Slow" (half XP earned) trial turned on, so that I didn't max my level/XP until late in Trespasser, was way more enjoyable than playing without it and maxing my level/XP in Arbor Wilds with the end of the main game + 3 DLC's left to play. Ah, that is fair enough, leveling could have been slower. Would something like maxing out in a completionist playthrough, but not hitting max level if you just run through the campaign be fine?
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on May 20, 2019 2:36:07 GMT
Would something like maxing out in a completionist playthrough, but not hitting max level if you just run through the campaign be fine? Oh, definitely. But it's not just the XP gain. Part of playing an RPG is gaining skills as you advance. If you max out too early in the game, then the character progression part of the RP is no longer a factor - you're stuck with what you have. If you are speed running, that's quite a different goal for the PT and less about RP. In a NG+ situation it's a bit different too. I expect to max out fairly early in ME1. In MEA you can get 3 PTs on one character before maxing.
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Post by colfoley on May 20, 2019 4:33:53 GMT
This is obviously just my personal interjection here and not one hundred percent sure if this is the venue...but I have always wanted to level up and max my character out as fast as possible so I can be as strong as possible as early as posible and curb stomp the competition. There is some joy in levelling and it is part of the RP process...but never has really been a vital one for me. I also would love it to have the best equipment available from the beginning too that way I can focus on Role Playing and also make combat a lot easier.
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Post by goishen on May 20, 2019 5:12:54 GMT
I'm damn surprised no has brought this up.
The PING. Ya know, the thing that sent the circle out from you in all directions? Telling you where the interesting shit was for you to pick up?
Like somebody (can't recall who) said on classic BSN, "I'm not a god damned submarine, stop treating me like one."
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Post by Vall on May 20, 2019 5:21:03 GMT
I'm damn surprised no has brought this up. The PING. Ya know, the thing that sent the circle out from you in all directions? Telling you where the interesting shit was for you to pick up? Like somebody (can't recall who) said on classic BSN, "I'm not a god damned submarine, stop treating me like one." Oh yes, please get rid of that. Either bring back old item highlight with tab from DAO/2, or just remove it.
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cankiie
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on May 20, 2019 5:48:57 GMT
I think I mentioned it once, but even so I want to repeat it.
Let me have my companions loot as well.
I have no problem going out into the world to find materials to craft with.
But damnit, spending 5 seconds on every single material in a radius is tedious and annoying.
Having companions loot anything within a specific radius is one way to remove that tediousness.
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helios969
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by helios969 on May 20, 2019 14:05:23 GMT
This is obviously just my personal interjection here and not one hundred percent sure if this is the venue...but I have always wanted to level up and max my character out as fast as possible so I can be as strong as possible as early as posible and curb stomp the competition. There is some joy in levelling and it is part of the RP process...but never has really been a vital one for me. I also would love it to have the best equipment available from the beginning too that way I can focus on Role Playing and also make combat a lot easier. So you want a game+ mechanic? Something they’ve been stubborn about implementing.
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Polka Dot
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 14:47:02 GMT
Open world exploration just for the sake of finding stupid shit (lore, materials, treasure, encounters) hidden out in the area is stupid. What is the purpose of exploration if not to find stuff, stupid or otherwise? For me, it kind of depends on the game and my character's role in the scheme of things. It was easy for me to justify spending hours exploring in MEA because exploring, scouting, locating resources, clearing threats, etc. are all well within the purview of a pathfinder. (As an aside, that's actually one of the things I appreciated about MEA - the role of the pathfinder was somewhat loosely defined, which gave me the opportunity to refine it.) The same is not true of the leader of an Inquisition. In that regard, one saving grace for DAI is the fact that the maps all had some rifts that only the Inquisitor could close. Some areas also had other issues/conflicts that were worth Inky's time, but it wasn't always easy to know that prior to coming across them. What might have helped is having the scout (or advisors) be more forthcoming about major issues in various regions, and also have them marked on the map. That, and I would have been perfectly content with smaller maps - say about 2/3 of their size. This is obviously just my personal interjection here and not one hundred percent sure if this is the venue...but I have always wanted to level up and max my character out as fast as possible so I can be as strong as possible as early as posible and curb stomp the competition. There is some joy in levelling and it is part of the RP process...but never has really been a vital one for me. I also would love it to have the best equipment available from the beginning too that way I can focus on Role Playing and also make combat a lot easier. A proper NG+ could scratch that itch imho. I get that the devs bend over backwards to try to provide a consistent challenge (often resorting to level scaling to accomplish that goal), but I'd be quite content with relegating that entire function to player choice of difficulty settings.
Another thing I don't think has been discussed much here is the automatic shifting between exploration and combat modes. I'd like to be able to move past/ignore hostilities without having to engage them all. This is particularly true of hostile wildlife, much of which respawns. It would also make the mounts much more useful. There were some places where my party was in combat mode, unable to do anything else because some wildlife apparently pinged in range even though the animal was not aggro'ed, not actively pursuing my party and I had no desire to engage it. Some quest objective or collectible was right there in front of me, and I couldn't interact with it because I was in combat mode - so I had to find, chase down, and slay the hostile to proceed. I'd be okay with having to manually shift between combat and exploration modes if the control mapping isn't too precious to accommodate such a function.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 14:59:47 GMT
I think I mentioned it once, but even so I want to repeat it. Let me have my companions loot as well. I have no problem going out into the world to find materials to craft with. But damnit, spending 5 seconds on every single material in a radius is tedious and annoying. Having companions loot anything within a specific radius is one way to remove that tediousness. That's one thing I especially appreciate about Dragon's Dogma - pawns in your party will pick up loot. You can even set their behavior to prioritize gathering goodies. (Of course, they'll also use consumables they're carrying, so there's that.)
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Post by biggydx on May 20, 2019 15:56:19 GMT
I think I mentioned it once, but even so I want to repeat it. Let me have my companions loot as well. I have no problem going out into the world to find materials to craft with. But damnit, spending 5 seconds on every single material in a radius is tedious and annoying. Having companions loot anything within a specific radius is one way to remove that tediousness. That's one thing I especially appreciate about Dragon's Dogma - pawns in your party will pick up loot. You can even set their behavior to prioritize gathering goodies. (Of course, they'll also use consumables they're carrying, so there's that.) God forbid you take a Neutralizing Elixer and screw up their AI and behavioral patterns
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Post by Polka Dot on May 20, 2019 16:49:40 GMT
That's one thing I especially appreciate about Dragon's Dogma - pawns in your party will pick up loot. You can even set their behavior to prioritize gathering goodies. (Of course, they'll also use consumables they're carrying, so there's that.) God forbid you take a Neutralizing Elixer and screw up their AI and behavioral patterns Neutralizing elixirs are the devil. Use of them is not advisable. I don't have or remember the specifics offhand atm, but using the right number of elixirs in the right order can completely set your pawn's inclinations. When I was playing a lot of DD, I would do that from time to time to keep my pawn set per my preferences. IIRC, you use them in reverse order. Take one for the inclination you want in last place, then one for the inclination you want in next to last place, etc. Once you get to the top 4, you use increasingly more elixirs. Or something like that.
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Post by alanc9 on May 20, 2019 17:03:40 GMT
If quests are not worth doing once you hit level cap, I think it's the quest design (both narrative and rewards) that should be questioned, not the level cap. Let me put it this way: playing DAI with the "Take It Slow" (half XP earned) trial turned on, so that I didn't max my level/XP until late in Trespasser, was way more enjoyable than playing without it and maxing my level/XP in Arbor Wilds with the end of the main game + 3 DLC's left to play. Although this depends on how completionist you're playing.
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Tittus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ByonicClown
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Post by Tittus on May 20, 2019 17:28:11 GMT
Another thing I don't think has been discussed much here is the automatic shifting between exploration and combat modes. I'd like to be able to move past/ignore hostilities without having to engage them all. This is particularly true of hostile wildlife, much of which respawns. It would also make the mounts much more useful. There were some places where my party was in combat mode, unable to do anything else because some wildlife apparently pinged in range even though the animal was not aggro'ed, not actively pursuing my party and I had no desire to engage it. Some quest objective or collectible was right there in front of me, and I couldn't interact with it because I was in combat mode - so I had to find, chase down, and slay the hostile to proceed. I'd be okay with having to manually shift between combat and exploration modes if the control mapping isn't too precious to accommodate such a function. I fully agree with this. What makes that compulsory combat mode even worse is that it makes us slower and an option to sheath weapons in the controls exists, but it doesn't work if there's an enemy closer.
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Post by Iakus on May 20, 2019 17:48:06 GMT
Would something like maxing out in a completionist playthrough, but not hitting max level if you just run through the campaign be fine? Oh, definitely. But it's not just the XP gain. Part of playing an RPG is gaining skills as you advance. If you max out too early in the game, then the character progression part of the RP is no longer a factor - you're stuck with what you have. If you are speed running, that's quite a different goal for the PT and less about RP. In a NG+ situation it's a bit different too. I expect to max out fairly early in ME1. In MEA you can get 3 PTs on one character before maxing. For myself, I hated the combat so much I wanted to outlevel everything just so I can steamroll through the fighting that much quicker.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 19:08:40 GMT
I disliked a lot of things but what really bugged me was: - Combat. Awfully bad, boring and with garbage mechanics. -The open world design, like, so much space but very few interesting things. -Plastic, shinning-looking people. And the hair, ugh.
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Post by themikefest on May 20, 2019 21:24:25 GMT
I must be in the minority since I like the combat in DAI
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Post by dagless on May 20, 2019 21:42:04 GMT
Oh, definitely. But it's not just the XP gain. Part of playing an RPG is gaining skills as you advance. If you max out too early in the game, then the character progression part of the RP is no longer a factor - you're stuck with what you have. If you are speed running, that's quite a different goal for the PT and less about RP. In a NG+ situation it's a bit different too. I expect to max out fairly early in ME1. In MEA you can get 3 PTs on one character before maxing. For myself, I hated the combat so much I wanted to outlevel everything just so I can steamroll through the fighting that much quicker. Probably not the best thing for BioWare to base the leveling around, then. On leveling in general, I get problem devs have in balancing between people just going through the story and completionists, as well as trying to make you feel more powerful whilst maintaining a bit of challenge. That said, most games seem to keep mob numbers about the same and just make them harder (either through level scaling or making some areas harder so you have to explore them later, or a mix). It might be nice at higher levels to occasionally run across a big hoard of low level grunts, instead of just stronger ones. That could still be challenging, while really making it clear you’re now a total badass. It’s not really something you see though. At least I can’t think of any good examples.
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