SwobyJ
N4
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Post by SwobyJ on Aug 6, 2019 17:59:44 GMT
I think that might be one of the reasons they should try and make multiple points of contention between any potential *new* protag and Solas. Solas could've killed your family *and* is a threat to your city *and* is a threat to the world...for instance...which could give your character multiple points of contention to care about the overall fight. Your character could love their father so is out for revenge against Solas who killed him or he may hate his family causing him to not really care. It will be curious to see how far BioWare takes this sort of thing. I like the idea that our protag (to whatever degree) is out for revenge against Solas and doesn't have the (likely) Inquisitor perspective about it, while the Inquisitor (to whatever degree) is just trying to 'deal with Solas' and that may include not being on the same wavelength and wanting to 'redeem' him. As in Inquisitor could never be as highly out for revenge as our protag - as you said 'killed your family and threat to city and threat to world and lacking personal history with us' - and new protag could never be as highly our for seeking redemption as the Inquisitor - we'd never experience the possible bonding, insight, calmer part of him, romance, aspects of backstory quite like the Inquisitor did (even if both games' lore supports one another).
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Post by arvaarad on Aug 6, 2019 20:50:56 GMT
My inner DM wants the protag’s “specialness” to be some kind of vulnerability, or a strength that comes with some pretty hefty downsides. Something that causes more trouble than it solves - because trouble generates fun story hooks.
While my favorite idea is for the new protag to be a double agent (with the option of RPing a conflicted double agent), anything that causes a similar amount of trouble is right up my alley. They owe a huge debt to the Carta, they’re a Cole-style shade that has to badly pretend to be mortal, they’re on the run from Ben-Hassrath, they made a deal with a demon long ago that hasn’t been collected on yet, etc.
I’d prefer a problem that’s species-neutral, because that allows for more frequent integration with the main story. For example, maybe the exact reason for the Carta debt or demon deal varies by background, but the fact that there is this uncollected debt is the same for everyone. Sort of like how every proto-warden is different, but they all become a warden... except with even more in-story drama than we got from being a warden.
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Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
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Post by Doominike on Aug 6, 2019 22:35:21 GMT
That's kinda guaranteed though, everyone always mentions the unifying special thing. "You're a grey warden/the Inquisitor/Herald", etc. I'd like more origin (race/class) specific stuff, differentiates the playthroughs more. Maybe even some dialogue changes similar to being andrastian or not in DAI.
Like I had this idea of a kind of reverse Winter Palace, where instead of being at a fancy place full of nobles where all origins but 1 are out of place, it's a "get general population approval" in a commoner village or something. You'd start with a minus for being, say, the heir of a Magister, but it'd also differ depending on your previous behavior. Maybe like default -10, -5 if you're a nice one like Dorian and -15 if you're the usual asshole bloodmage.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2019 22:42:01 GMT
My inner DM wants the protag’s “specialness” to be some kind of vulnerability, or a strength that comes with some pretty hefty downsides. Something that causes more trouble than it solves - because trouble generates fun story hooks. While my favorite idea is for the new protag to be a double agent (with the option of RPing a conflicted double agent), anything that causes a similar amount of trouble is right up my alley. They owe a huge debt to the Carta, they’re a Cole-style shade that has to badly pretend to be mortal, they’re on the run from Ben-Hassrath, they made a deal with a demon long ago that hasn’t been collected on yet, etc. I’d prefer a problem that’s species-neutral, because that allows for more frequent integration with the main story. For example, maybe the exact reason for the Carta debt or demon deal varies by background, but the fact that there is this uncollected debt is the same for everyone. Sort of like how every proto-warden is different, but they all become a warden... except with even more in-story drama than we got from being a warden. I have wondered more and more how they will handle the backgrounds this time out. Afterall while DAI and MEA gave me enough wiggle room for creating consistent characters with the backgrounds I wanted I do have some ideas what I want to do. And while both options have their merits I do want a chance to marinate myself in the world before going off on the grand adventure. Basically it seems like they can only go down two basic paths: give everyone the same vague background at the start...or do Origin stories. Which given how stratified Tevinter is does offer some juiciness. I just have to remember to not get too far of myself lol.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2019 22:50:31 GMT
Whatever they do also I'd like redemption to play a huge part in any new protag considering redemption is likely to be a big part of the theme.
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N2
Vehnan'abelasan
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Post by Doominike on Aug 7, 2019 0:27:52 GMT
Forced redemption arc means you can't do a character who's always been good though, and ruins any potential full evil character. You could just want to stop the world being destroyed so you can conquer it yourself, or at least just because an apocalypse interrupts your fun.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2019 0:31:57 GMT
Forced redemption arc means you can't do a character who's always been good though, and ruins any potential full evil character. You could just want to stop the world being destroyed so you can conquer it yourself, or at least just because an apocalypse interrupts your fun. I'm not o talking about forcing anything just that question could play a huge part in the conflict with Solas. Your character could decide that they don't need redemption.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2019 2:32:03 GMT
Forced redemption arc means you can't do a character who's always been good though, and ruins any potential full evil character. You could just want to stop the world being destroyed so you can conquer it yourself, or at least just because an apocalypse interrupts your fun. I'm not o talking about forcing anything just that question could play a huge part in the conflict with Solas. Your character could decide that they don't need redemption. That stills means they would have to have done something bad enough where the prospect of redemption becomes a question.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2019 2:33:21 GMT
I don't think the new PC should be the one to deal with Solas, the Inquisitor has personal stakes tying them to him, would make no sense for some unrelated person to directly determine his fate. That said, aside that I'd prefer someonne who's specialness is limited to what the Inquisitor had going for them pre-Anchor, just an exceptionally competent and strong/skilled/powerful warrior/rogue/mage. Yeah, well... Corypheus was Hawke's enemy first, but the next protagonist was the one who defeated him for good. Hawke also killed Corypheus, unaware of his ability to body jump. So to Hawke, that situation was resolved. It’s the exact opposite with the Inquisitor and Solas.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 7, 2019 2:37:10 GMT
Ah, my bad then, I misunderstood. Trying to redeem Solas does seem like the more interesting path rather than just killing him. Even though I don't (yet?) have an Inquisitor who vowed to redeem him.
Edit to avoid double-post: Hawke also didn't have anything personal against Corypheus, it was just "Oh a darkspawn magister, I should probably kill that"
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2019 2:53:44 GMT
I'm not o talking about forcing anything just that question could play a huge part in the conflict with Solas. Your character could decide that they don't need redemption. That stills means they would have to have done something bad enough where the prospect of redemption becomes a question. not necessarily. In fact not even likely. Your character could have accidentally killed someone...such things happen and then they decide that they are either guiltu... or not. Or if your characters sister gets raped and murdered by a Tevinter noble. You then kill him. In the eyes of society you are guilty as sin but your character can go one way or the other. Honestly though IF they go this route I'm kinda hoping they never reveal what the character did, leave it up to the imagination of the player...unless it's important for an Origin story.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2019 3:00:02 GMT
That stills means they would have to have done something bad enough where the prospect of redemption becomes a question. not necessarily. In fact not even likely. Your character could have accidentally killed someone...such things happen and then they decide that they are either guiltu... or not. Or if your characters sister gets raped and murdered by a Tevinter noble. You then kill him. In the eyes of society you are guilty as sin but your character can go one way or the other. Honestly though IF they go this route I'm kinda hoping they never reveal what the character did, leave it up to the imagination of the player...unless it's important for an Origin story. Ah, so you want a Terrence.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2019 3:30:02 GMT
not necessarily. In fact not even likely. Your character could have accidentally killed someone...such things happen and then they decide that they are either guiltu... or not. Or if your characters sister gets raped and murdered by a Tevinter noble. You then kill him. In the eyes of society you are guilty as sin but your character can go one way or the other. Honestly though IF they go this route I'm kinda hoping they never reveal what the character did, leave it up to the imagination of the player...unless it's important for an Origin story. Ah, so you want a Terrence. maybe. honestly at this point I'm speculating on what they might do and how they might do it keeping in mind my speculations are usually wrong.
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Post by phoray on Aug 7, 2019 4:35:25 GMT
A back history that we'd get to speak about, though. If I can never choose to tell people about it or not, then it's all in my head, not in their writing.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
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Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Aug 7, 2019 8:58:24 GMT
I prefer Hawke's humble beginnings or Shepard as an established elite warrior. Also, being able to have a playable backstory or having an established background/psychological makeup in which the overall story is reactive to is very helpful for RP immersion. Probably the biggest thing lacking in DAI was not being able to do a meet and greet with the Divine and heads of the Mage and Templar orders...to invest us emotionally.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 7, 2019 11:19:33 GMT
I hate that "wander around and have exposition vomited all over you" shit. I'm grateful that we were spared that in DAI.
Also, it would have made no sense for half the origins we were given. Not to mention the plot revolves entirely around solving the mystery of how you came to be where you are. Like, the entire thing would need to be rewritten from scratch.
Hahahaha, just imagine:
"Well helloooooooo, Dalish spy/Qunari mercenary/low-ranking noble/some dwarf! I am Divine Justinia!"
> What's a Divine?
"It means I'm head of the Chantry"
> What's that?
"You've never heard of the Chantry, despite having lived in this setting for 20-30 odd years? Well, allow me to explain it to you PERSONALLY in excruciating detail, but in a very simple manner, as though you were a particularly stupid child, even though I am a very busy and important fantasy lady-pope presiding over an INTERNATIONAL PEACE SUMMIT."
*knock on the door*
"I'll get that... yes, who is i- oh no, a Darkspawn!"
*KABOOM*
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Post by Doominike on Aug 7, 2019 11:37:49 GMT
That stills means they would have to have done something bad enough where the prospect of redemption becomes a question. not necessarily. In fact not even likely. Your character could have accidentally killed someone...such things happen and then they decide that they are either guiltu... or not. Or if your characters sister gets raped and murdered by a Tevinter noble. You then kill him. In the eyes of society you are guilty as sin but your character can go one way or the other. Honestly though IF they go this route I'm kinda hoping they never reveal what the character did, leave it up to the imagination of the player...unless it's important for an Origin story. We should have playable origins to decide that, kinda like the Guardian in DAO asking if you regret stuff specific to your race/class background. And we need to be able to genuinely not have regrets if we so choose, no matter what the bad thing is. I wanna be able to roleplay actual evil again, not just be rude.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 7, 2019 22:28:43 GMT
not necessarily. In fact not even likely. Your character could have accidentally killed someone...such things happen and then they decide that they are either guiltu... or not. Or if your characters sister gets raped and murdered by a Tevinter noble. You then kill him. In the eyes of society you are guilty as sin but your character can go one way or the other. Honestly though IF they go this route I'm kinda hoping they never reveal what the character did, leave it up to the imagination of the player...unless it's important for an Origin story. We should have playable origins to decide that, kinda like the Guardian in DAO asking if you regret stuff specific to your race/class background. And we need to be able to genuinely not have regrets if we so choose, no matter what the bad thing is. I wanna be able to roleplay actual evil again, not just be rude. I want to decide for myself whether or not the thing I'm doing is "evil".
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Post by Doominike on Aug 8, 2019 1:21:09 GMT
We should have playable origins to decide that, kinda like the Guardian in DAO asking if you regret stuff specific to your race/class background. And we need to be able to genuinely not have regrets if we so choose, no matter what the bad thing is. I wanna be able to roleplay actual evil again, not just be rude. I want to decide for myself whether or not the thing I'm doing is "evil". I mean stuff like accepting a blood magic power boost from sacrificing the alienage elves back in DAO, even if you were a City Elf and it was your family members. Straight up pretty objectively evil stuff.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2019 2:22:04 GMT
I want to decide for myself whether or not the thing I'm doing is "evil". I mean stuff like accepting a blood magic power boost from sacrificing the alienage elves back in DAO, even if you were a City Elf and it was your family members. Straight up pretty objectively evil stuff. I agree personally that genocidal acts like that are evil, and I emphatically do not want BioWare to allow players to commit genocide in their games, partly for that reason. But I mean... it's not objective. We have multiple documented instances where people thought mass murder was just dandy, and not just a few people going along with it, but entire societies.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 8, 2019 2:32:45 GMT
I mean stuff like accepting a blood magic power boost from sacrificing the alienage elves back in DAO, even if you were a City Elf and it was your family members. Straight up pretty objectively evil stuff. I agree personally that genocidal acts like that are evil, and I emphatically do not want BioWare to allow players to commit genocide in their games, partly for that reason. But I mean... it's not objective. We have multiple documented instances where people thought mass murder was just dandy, and not just a few people going along with it, but entire societies. sad but true. As I've said I want choices that are relatively neutral but can be interpreted as either good or evil depending on context and circumstances.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 8, 2019 2:32:46 GMT
I mean stuff like accepting a blood magic power boost from sacrificing the alienage elves back in DAO, even if you were a City Elf and it was your family members. Straight up pretty objectively evil stuff. I agree personally that genocidal acts like that are evil, and I emphatically do not want BioWare to allow players to commit genocide in their games, partly for that reason. But I mean... it's not objective. We have multiple documented instances where people thought mass murder was just dandy, and not just a few people going along with it, but entire societies. Hence putting 'pretty' in front of objectively. The great majority would consider exchanging the lives of several others for minor personal betterment just because you can to be evil. Some evil people would agree that it's evil, they just don't care. I used that exemple because off the top of my head it was among the morally worst things you can do in DAO. I do emphatically want to be able to play a complete monster in DA4 though.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2019 2:42:34 GMT
I agree personally that genocidal acts like that are evil, and I emphatically do not want BioWare to allow players to commit genocide in their games, partly for that reason. But I mean... it's not objective. We have multiple documented instances where people thought mass murder was just dandy, and not just a few people going along with it, but entire societies. Hence putting 'pretty' in front of objectively. The great majority would consider exchanging the lives of several others for minor personal betterment just because you can to be evil. Some evil people would agree that it's evil, they just don't care. I used that exemple because off the top of my head it was among the morally worst things you can do in DAO. I do emphatically want to be able to play a complete monster in DA4 though. I hold the dual positions of wanting certain actions to be absolutely out of bounds, but not wanting BioWare to moralise at me about my choices. I realise it's confusing. Lol.
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N2
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Post by Doominike on Aug 8, 2019 4:15:23 GMT
Hence putting 'pretty' in front of objectively. The great majority would consider exchanging the lives of several others for minor personal betterment just because you can to be evil. Some evil people would agree that it's evil, they just don't care. I used that exemple because off the top of my head it was among the morally worst things you can do in DAO. I do emphatically want to be able to play a complete monster in DA4 though. I hold the dual positions of wanting certain actions to be absolutely out of bounds, but not wanting BioWare to moralise at me about my choices. I realise it's confusing. Lol. To me it's kinda to do with setting/premise. I was fine with merely aggressive Hawke being the worst you could be, and it's probably best that the Inquisitor couldn't be a sociopath, but if you set a game in evil blood mage country and I can't be an evil blood mage I'm gonna be disappoint.
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N1
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Aug 13, 2019 22:44:59 GMT
100% nothing just like the great HOF
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