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Post by sassafrassa on Jul 5, 2019 22:57:17 GMT
It's possible that the number of seasons and episodes of a series, or even critic ratings, don't indicate truly quality in terms of writing. A lot of watered down garbage makes millions while really quality productions fade into obscurity, maintaining only cult followings. When you appeal to as wide a group as possible you often, though not always, wind up appealing to the lowest common denominator. Thus you create an inferior product.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 5, 2019 23:12:41 GMT
It's possible that the number of seasons and episodes of a series, or even critic ratings, don't indicate truly quality in terms of writing. A lot of watered down garbage makes millions while really quality productions fade into obscurity, maintaining only cult followings. When you appeal to as wide a group as possible you often, though not always, wind up appealing to the lowest common denominator. Thus you create an inferior product.
True. Farscape lasted 4 seasons and had about 90 episodes and is IMHO a great and criminally under-rated cult classic sci-fi series that screams for a live action or even animated continuation or a straight up sequel/reboot series.
Shows like Star Trek: The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek: Voyager that each lasted 7 seasons and have over 100 episodes each and not to mention 4 theatrical films. Or a series like Stargate SG-1 based off a hit sci-fi/action movie (which I thought was good) that lasted 10 seasons and had over 200 episodes and a bunch of direct-to-video movies based on the TV series, they must have something that people liked about them to keep going.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 23:59:52 GMT
1) Trying to be cute... and failing. 2) See item 1. Cute? You're the one who mentioned ME5. Why not say ME4 or MEA2? Or were you trying to be cute? After a decade, I'm not sure what I would expect from Ryder. Likely be a new main character with a time gap like that. Alec dying wasn't what didn't grab me about the opening act of the game. When Ryder leaves the medbay, a generator shuts down. Apparently Ryder is the only one who has a scanner to locate and fix the problem. Why didn't the maintenance personnel have a scanner? So if another problem were to happen, they sit around waiting for Ryder to return to fix the problem? The other is meeting Kosta while heading to Habitat 7. Why wasn't the pathfinder team waken up earlier to get to know each other, something that should have happened before leaving the Milky Way, to do an equipment check, and run through a couple of scenarios if they were to run into some trouble?
Really? I HAVE to explain this to you? The next game, regardless of what they name it, would be the fifth game in the Mass Effect franchise (ME5). ME1 was the first game in the Mass Effect Franchise and it was simply entitled Mass Effect. The second and third games in the franchise were entitled Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. The fourth game in the franchise was entitled Mass Effect: Andromeda. It is separate from what has become known as the Mass Effect Trilogy, but it is still undeniably the fourth game published as part of the Mass Effect franchise overall.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 6, 2019 13:17:09 GMT
Cute? You're the one who mentioned ME5. Why not say ME4 or MEA2? Or were you trying to be cute? After a decade, I'm not sure what I would expect from Ryder. Likely be a new main character with a time gap like that. Alec dying wasn't what didn't grab me about the opening act of the game. When Ryder leaves the medbay, a generator shuts down. Apparently Ryder is the only one who has a scanner to locate and fix the problem. Why didn't the maintenance personnel have a scanner? So if another problem were to happen, they sit around waiting for Ryder to return to fix the problem? The other is meeting Kosta while heading to Habitat 7. Why wasn't the pathfinder team waken up earlier to get to know each other, something that should have happened before leaving the Milky Way, to do an equipment check, and run through a couple of scenarios if they were to run into some trouble?
Really? I HAVE to explain this to you? The next game, regardless of what they name it, would be the fifth game in the Mass Effect franchise (ME5). ME1 was the first game in the Mass Effect Franchise and it was simply entitled Mass Effect. The second and third games in the franchise were entitled Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. The fourth game in the franchise was entitled Mass Effect: Andromeda. It is separate from what has become known as the Mass Effect Trilogy, but it is still undeniably the fourth game published as part of the Mass Effect franchise overall.
It's like Star Trek: Generations is the 7th movie in that series even if the number is not technically part of the title. Although I have seen it titled Star Trek VII: Generations and the rest of TNG movies with numbers in various Blu-Ray box sets and digital bundles.
BioWare could have the game Mass Effect 4: Andromeda but didn't for any number of various reasons but technically the next game will be the 5th Mass Effect game regardless if they call it Mass Effect: Andromeda 2 or Mass Effect 5.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 13:40:04 GMT
Really? I HAVE to explain this to you? The next game, regardless of what they name it, would be the fifth game in the Mass Effect franchise (ME5). ME1 was the first game in the Mass Effect Franchise and it was simply entitled Mass Effect. The second and third games in the franchise were entitled Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. The fourth game in the franchise was entitled Mass Effect: Andromeda. It is separate from what has become known as the Mass Effect Trilogy, but it is still undeniably the fourth game published as part of the Mass Effect franchise overall.
It's like Star Trek: Generations is the 7th movie in that series even if the number is not technically part of the title. Although I have seen it titled Star Trek VII: Generations and the rest of TNG movies with numbers in various Blu-Ray box sets and digital bundles.
BioWare could have the game Mass Effect 4: Andromeda but didn't for any number of various reasons but technically the next game will be the 5th Mass Effect game regardless if they call it Mass Effect: Andromeda 2 or Mass Effect 5.
Yes. Even if they do a direct sequel to ME3, I'm willing to guess that they won't actually name it Mass Effect 5. They'll still separate it from the three games that make up the Mass Effect Trilogy by adding another word, say Mass Effect: Milky Way or Mass Effect: Citadel.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 6, 2019 15:25:20 GMT
It's like Star Trek: Generations is the 7th movie in that series even if the number is not technically part of the title. Although I have seen it titled Star Trek VII: Generations and the rest of TNG movies with numbers in various Blu-Ray box sets and digital bundles.
BioWare could have the game Mass Effect 4: Andromeda but didn't for any number of various reasons but technically the next game will be the 5th Mass Effect game regardless if they call it Mass Effect: Andromeda 2 or Mass Effect 5.
Yes. Even if they do a direct sequel to ME3, I'm willing to guess that they won't actually name it Mass Effect 5. They'll still separate it from the three games that make up the Mass Effect Trilogy by adding another word, say Mass Effect: Milky Way or Mass Effect: Citadel.
That would be my guess since Activision did the same thing on Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 2 basically spinning Modern Warfare off as it's own series.
This is what IMHO BioWare should do with a sequel to MEA call it Andromeda 2: A Mass Effect Game like how Eidos split The Legacy of Kain series into two different franchises set in different time periods with different lead characters but both are still set in the same universe with the Blood Omen games about Kain's rise to power in the past and the Soul Reaver games being about Razial trying to figure out his destiny to stop Kain in the distant future.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 15:35:07 GMT
Yes. Even if they do a direct sequel to ME3, I'm willing to guess that they won't actually name it Mass Effect 5. They'll still separate it from the three games that make up the Mass Effect Trilogy by adding another word, say Mass Effect: Milky Way or Mass Effect: Citadel.
That would be my guess since Activision did the same thing on Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 2 basically spinning Modern Warfare off as it's own series.
This is what IMHO BioWare should do with a sequel to MEA call it Andromeda 2: A Mass Effect Game like how Eidos split The Legacy of Kain series into two different franchises set in different time periods with different lead characters but both are still set in the same universe with the Blood Omen games about Kain's rise to power in the past and the Soul Reaver games being about Razial trying to figure out his destiny to stop Kain in the distant future.
Absolutely.
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Post by Ieldra on Jul 13, 2019 9:45:06 GMT
About the question in the OP: I would like them to apply Tolkien's famous statement about allegory vs. applicability. Elements of any SF story can and probably should connect with the present in some way, but it shouldn't be pushed into players' faces. I don't want to be pulled out of the fictional world by RL references, and they should avoid any heavyhanded moral messaging but just present what they want to present and leave the interpretations to the players.
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Post by Ascend on Jul 15, 2019 15:25:27 GMT
I see no issue in referencing any political, social, economic, societal or philosophical issue or point. However, none of them should be shoved anyone's throat, like we've seen some games attempt to do lately. They can be presented and even resolved in certain ways, but should not clearly paint one side as good and the other as bad. Let the player decide.
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Post by ahglock on Jul 25, 2019 23:50:42 GMT
Discussing issues is good being preachy isn’t. If I wanted a sermon my Sunday mornings would be booked.
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Post by helios969 on Jul 26, 2019 10:17:18 GMT
I see no issue in referencing any political, social, economic, societal or philosophical issue or point. However, none of them should be shoved anyone's throat, like we've seen some games attempt to do lately. They can be presented and even resolved in certain ways, but should not clearly paint one side as good and the other as bad. Let the player decide. Exactly this. Those issues are critical to good storytelling, but the best writers know to be neutral observers.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 1, 2019 13:18:19 GMT
I see no issue in referencing any political, social, economic, societal or philosophical issue or point. However, none of them should be shoved anyone's throat, like we've seen some games attempt to do lately. They can be presented and even resolved in certain ways, but should not clearly paint one side as good and the other as bad. Let the player decide. Exactly this. Those issues are critical to good storytelling, but the best writers know to be neutral observers.
No they aren't. There is a time for subtly and a time to be blunt. The best storytellers aren't afraid to tell you bluntly that for example, that diversity is a good thing and that racism is wrong and Nazis are evil in the most blunt and forceful way they can and that some people who claim to be fans and watch any Twilight Zone and/or Star Trek for example TV show or movie can't seem to understand that concept, tells me that the people behind the current shows need to be more blunt and preachy and with Star Trek, in particular it's best episodes and series are the so called preachy ones. Subtly works only when people get the message at some point either when engaging with the media, thinking about it later, or talking about it with other fans, and sometimes it doesn't work at all when it's buried under so much other stuff or it some cases it's actually so subtle that it's practically not even there.
And I find the whole neutral observers thing (especially in the realm of news media) to be morally abhorrent because it lets people who should speak uncomfortable truths to power to abdicate their responsibility because it's "easier" than taking a stand. Ubisoft plays with a lot of political imagery in it's trailers than they scream: "That their games are not making a political statement" when they use settings, imagery, references, real world politicians and problems, and so on; in their games so they are making actually making a political statement they're just too chickenshit to say it or even admit that it's a political message.
I will say this for EA for all of their many faults (and they do have many FAULTS) when one of their games has a political message and they've IMHO have shown real courage that when one of their games takes a political statement they don't hide it or shy away from it they say head on "It's political statement. Get over it." Again that is real courage, not the cowardice of a company like Ubisoft.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 1, 2019 14:27:34 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 2, 2019 3:02:14 GMT
Maybe when Bioware remakes the trilogy, , Bioware might give Shepard the option not to have aliens on the ship. I would even add that option to ME2/3 as well. Let's not kid ourselves. If BioWare remade Mass Effect they would make asari referred to as gender-fluid, non-binary, make Garrus a woman and make Udina an allegory for Donald Trump. Asari already are basically. Garrus I doubt and Udina fine more reason to shoot him.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 2, 2019 13:41:33 GMT
Garrus as a woman? Why not? Worked for Starbuck.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Aug 2, 2019 14:14:52 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves. If BioWare remade Mass Effect they would make asari referred to as gender-fluid, non-binary, make Garrus a woman and make Udina an allegory for Donald Trump. Asari already are basically. Garrus I doubt and Udina fine more reason to shoot him. Hmm. If one disregards Nyreen Kandros, i.e. DLC bonus, there were no female Turians (and Krogan) on a regular basis until MEA. Oh, and there was "bi" Kaidan. Udina is an asshat and I was rather surprised how defensive the Virmire survivor is of him - given that treasonous act after that mission, but I guess Udina's way too savvy to be compared to a certain president emperor. I guess Trump would be more of a Harbringer.
If someone would ask me, I would like certain options in the beginning of ME2, like knocking Jacob out, shooting Miranda in the head, nabbing that shuttle and flying off to fight the Reapers and their cronies on my Shepard's own devices, which may include but not be restricted to Cerberus assistance - instead of being made an oblivous yes-(wo)man agent. Either that, or at least give me the opportunity to throw certain humans out of the crew, including but not limited to a certain "cheerleader bosh'tet".
Besides, without Mordin, all that Cerberus effort would turn into Seeker fodder anyway, unless that part is rewritten.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 2, 2019 15:06:55 GMT
About the only change I’d expect in a remaster is Kaiden being bisexual from the get go with gay options in me1. Everything else would likely just be graphical. It would be nice if they upgraded combat, or fixed the lore breaks, but I doubt they’d bother.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 15:33:13 GMT
About the only change I’d expect in a remaster is Kaiden being bisexual from the get go with gay options in me1. Everything else would likely just be graphical. It would be nice if they upgraded combat, or fixed the lore breaks, but I doubt they’d bother. If they make Kaidan bi from the start, they should probably make Ash bi as well... just to give both genders of PCs the exact same romance options from the start since there are only 3 total possible LI's in that game. However, this opens a Pandora's Box... since some people would probably appreciate being able to romance either Garrus or Tali also from the start... and then it begs the question of why aren't we allowed to try to romance Joker or Wrex in ME1. This is really an area where, no matter what Bioware does, someone will be unhappy about it.
A remaster should be limited to graphical and performance quality issues. I'd be more accepting of combat upgrades in a remaster as well; but the story should remain unchanged in a remaster.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 2, 2019 19:45:56 GMT
About the only change I’d expect in a remaster is Kaiden being bisexual from the get go with gay options in me1. Everything else would likely just be graphical. It would be nice if they upgraded combat, or fixed the lore breaks, but I doubt they’d bother. If they make Kaidan bi from the start, they should probably make Ash bi as well... just to give both genders of PCs the exact same romance options from the start since there are only 3 total possible LI's in that game. However, this opens a Pandora's Box... since some people would probably appreciate being able to romance either Garrus or Tali also from the start... and then it begs the question of why aren't we allowed to try to romance Joker or Wrex in ME1. This is really an area where, no matter what Bioware does, someone will be unhappy about it.
A remaster should be limited to graphical and performance quality issues. I'd be more accepting of combat upgrades in a remaster as well; but the story should remain unchanged in a remaster.
Well they made him bi in ME3? So it’s more of a you get it early change than a actual change to the characters or options. And it may not be ideal but liara effectively gives the gay option for women.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 20:11:30 GMT
If they make Kaidan bi from the start, they should probably make Ash bi as well... just to give both genders of PCs the exact same romance options from the start since there are only 3 total possible LI's in that game. However, this opens a Pandora's Box... since some people would probably appreciate being able to romance either Garrus or Tali also from the start... and then it begs the question of why aren't we allowed to try to romance Joker or Wrex in ME1. This is really an area where, no matter what Bioware does, someone will be unhappy about it.
A remaster should be limited to graphical and performance quality issues. I'd be more accepting of combat upgrades in a remaster as well; but the story should remain unchanged in a remaster.
Well they made him bi in ME3? So it’s more of a you get it early change than a actual change to the characters or options. And it may not be ideal but liara effectively gives the gay option for women. Not if they're portraying FemShep as also being xenophobic... and if an early change is done as far as Kaidan is concerned, why not facilitate an earlier romance for Garrus and Tali? Kaidan's gay romance currently is a late blooming one in the same way that the Garrus and Tali romances don't bloom until after ME1. There really isn't anything in ME1 that prevents Kaidan from being bi all along and Shepard's interest in him just not really developing until ME3.
At this point, the story is what it is and something that purports to be a remaster should just leave the story as it is. If it starts tinkering with story elements, then it should fall into the category of a remake... in which case a LOT of changes should be made... changes starting in ME1 and carrying right through to the end of the Trilogy.
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Post by Ascend on Aug 3, 2019 13:10:35 GMT
The best storytellers aren't afraid to tell you bluntly that for example, that diversity is a good thing It's easy to say that the best storytellers aren't afraid to bluntly tell you something when you already agree with a statement. What if you disagree? What if the writer honestly believes that diversity is not always a good thing and isn't afraid to bluntly tell you that? Would you then suddenly throw a fit? The best writers will show the ambiguity of a situation. They definitely will not pretend that everything in life is black and white. It's one of the reasons Mass Effect worked. The major moral choices encompass exactly the ambiguity and complexity of certain situations. That doesn't mean the writer cannot skew slightly in one direction rather than the other. But if all is already set in stone, there really is no story to tell.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 4, 2019 2:08:41 GMT
I don't know politics, no politics in games. Someone from either side whine about them.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 4, 2019 5:49:06 GMT
Well they made him bi in ME3? So it’s more of a you get it early change than a actual change to the characters or options. And it may not be ideal but liara effectively gives the gay option for women. Not if they're portraying FemShep as also being xenophobic... and if an early change is done as far as Kaidan is concerned, why not facilitate an earlier romance for Garrus and Tali? Kaidan's gay romance currently is a late blooming one in the same way that the Garrus and Tali romances don't bloom until after ME1. There really isn't anything in ME1 that prevents Kaidan from being bi all along and Shepard's interest in him just not really developing until ME3.
At this point, the story is what it is and something that purports to be a remaster should just leave the story as it is. If it starts tinkering with story elements, then it should fall into the category of a remake... in which case a LOT of changes should be made... changes starting in ME1 and carrying right through to the end of the Trilogy.
There are changes that could be made but should they? One one hand I wouldn't mind seeing the original plot of ME2 and 3 but on the other I like it as is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 9:20:48 GMT
Not if they're portraying FemShep as also being xenophobic... and if an early change is done as far as Kaidan is concerned, why not facilitate an earlier romance for Garrus and Tali? Kaidan's gay romance currently is a late blooming one in the same way that the Garrus and Tali romances don't bloom until after ME1. There really isn't anything in ME1 that prevents Kaidan from being bi all along and Shepard's interest in him just not really developing until ME3.
At this point, the story is what it is and something that purports to be a remaster should just leave the story as it is. If it starts tinkering with story elements, then it should fall into the category of a remake... in which case a LOT of changes should be made... changes starting in ME1 and carrying right through to the end of the Trilogy.
There are changes that could be made but should they? One one hand I wouldn't mind seeing the original plot of ME2 and 3 but on the other I like it as is. They shouldn't... at least not under the guise of a "remaster." A remaster should leave the story completely alone. That's at least my expectation when I buy a remastered version of anything... I buying something that's been improved technologically, but I expect it to be the same game and the same story as the original. Once they start making changes to the story, then I expect it to be sold as a "remake." That tells me the story has been changed. How changed it is varies from remake to remake, so I wouldn't necessarily be able to tell from the box.
If they commit themselves to doing a remake of the Trilogy, then they have the ability to make any changes they see fit and for whatever reasons they see fit. They can fill plot holes, change the in-world design, change the technological lore, change characters and introduce different characters. We could, for example, change ME1 to introduce us to characters who ultimately join the Initiative and head to Andromeda. Shepard could have a "history" with the Ryder family or he/she could see the Quarian arc preparing to depart when approaching the floatilla in ME2. What specific changes they make simply aren't up to me (or any individual fan)... it's still their story for the telling; but if they go with a remake, I'd rather see them make lots of changes rather than go to all the expense of, say, getting VA's in to voice new lines, to only fix some of the pet peeves some of their fans have about the original story. If it's properly labeled as a remake and not soft sold as a remaster, at least I know to expect at least some story changes... and I then can make a somewhat informed decision whether to buy it or not once it releases.
My preference is still to see the just push through with a ME:A2, leaving the MET story and all endings intact and leaving the story warts in place, but making positive changes to ME:A (which I think were planned anyways). Shepard's character, ship, and crew all changed in ME2. Even the Milky Way settings changed almost completely, even the Citadel got a complete makeover... So, I don't see any reason not to expect that they wouldn't have planned to do something similar with Ryder and the Andromeda setting.
I see doing a proper remake of the OT as a very risky venture that may not do anything to repair Bioware's relationship with its fans... because, over the years, the fans asking for one are essentially asking for very specific "fixes" to their own personal list of pet peeves... and each one has a different list of pet peeves. I don't see them as being particularly open-minded to Bioware just re-envisioning the story in Bioware's own way.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Aug 4, 2019 9:33:19 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves. If BioWare remade Mass Effect they would make asari referred to as gender-fluid, non-binary, make Garrus a woman and make Udina an allegory for Donald Trump. Asari already are basically. Garrus I doubt and Udina fine more reason to shoot him. There's a difference to me whether you describe Asari as "mono-gendered" or "non-binary". I won't say what it is, but I think there is a noteworthy difference.
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