Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 2, 2019 16:01:08 GMT
EA Unplugged #1 Unknown Challenges of Creating Apex Legends, Anthem & Battlefield V Three producers from three of the biggest action-shooter games of the year sat down with players to discuss what worked, what didn't work... and why.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 2, 2019 16:22:30 GMT
Andrew Johnson @untdrew First episode of EA Unplugged is up! Looking forward to hearing/seeing what everyone thinks of this type of content.
What/Who would you like to see featured next?
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Post by river82 on Jul 2, 2019 23:49:43 GMT
EA still out of touch I see. I predict that ... few are going to care, so I wonder how many view its had.
*Wanders to youtube* 4.7k views. Thought so.
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 3, 2019 0:06:39 GMT
4.7K views says it all.
EA/Bio's Unplugged is an attempt to communicate via a new outlet to avoid "toxicity", imo.
It's summer time, holidays are upon us and I find FIFA 2019 Women's Soccer Championship more interesting, exciting, fresh and more fun to watch. Players and teams have great background stories except that I hear them instead of reading from a Codex.
Hm.... I think I pulled an EA marketing move with those descriptions.... but hey!... it's all true... and more fun is on the way...
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Post by masterwarderz on Jul 3, 2019 0:22:20 GMT
I disagree with the assertion that Anthem is a "big" game tbh
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Post by clips7 on Jul 3, 2019 2:20:50 GMT
Y'know i've always stated that making games aren't easy...i've mentioned in other threads times that i've taken programming classes and i absolutely hated them. testing lines of code can be a nightmare if you do not test properly. So to be clear, i have always respected what these guys do.....but what i have heard in this vid is no different from what i've heard in other developer documentaries that describe the creative process and execution of the game content. I don't think any of this stuff is easy, but in regards to Anthem? after seeing the train wreck that was Andromeda during its release, they turn around and release a game that wasn't ready at all...repeating the same exact missteps as Andromeda....what the guy from Apex Legends stated in terms of it taking over a year to create a character seems pretty understandable as well....from creating the character to developing the voice overs...the animations from them holding weapons..items etc....these take time. Patches and updates are extremely costly as well.... So imagine a game like ME2 and in how much time it took to create and animate those characters...think of the thousands of lines of code it involves to make sure everything is coded correctly....so i understand how challenging it can be to try to create new content and keep consumers interested, but at the same time, you have to give customers what they want...i'm sure Anthem would have fared better if it was a SP entity rather than a live service....Anthem right now feels like a forced game and with no game plan on future content, i fear by the end of the year that game will be on the chopping block. Nice discussion overall, but nothing that i haven't seen or heard from other developer documentaries that described the difficult process of creating games....seems like EA is trying to get us to sympathize with how tough it is to create games in general....my question to EA...."when are we going to get the next Dead Space game and why in the world did you get rid of visceral?....Dead Space 3 even tho it was a bit more action oriented still had tight dark corridors, excellent side missions and silky smooth gameplay....Dead Space 4 with the marker threat at earth's door would be incredible....not gonna happen if the culture at EA feel SP games are dead tho...
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Post by XCPTNL on Jul 3, 2019 9:30:07 GMT
clips7: that sums it up pretty well. I'm also interested in more Dead Space by the way Usually I'm often interested in behind-the-scenes stuff and hearing the creative minds and devs talk about their game(s). But in this case it seems more like a "nice try" to do some damage control and justify some of the many failures of recent EA history by saying "how hard it is". Yes, it is. But others are facing the same challenges. Minus Frostbite. And there are projects that are much bigger than Anthem, Battlefield or Apex Legends. Difference is that some other devs really care about their customers, care about their product and enjoy playing their game themselves. In Anthem on the other hand for example both is absent: there was/is so much good and constructive feedback from players on a lot of things but they don't really engage with their (non-toxic and constructive part of the) community. And a lot of these things would probably not even have come up if the guys actually really cared for their product and played it a lot, beta-tested it extensively - and of course not wasted most of their development time by messing around and not going anywhere.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 3, 2019 10:57:25 GMT
I disagree with the assertion that Anthem is a "big" game tbh
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 3, 2019 11:32:10 GMT
This is actually them saying how much they suck compared to other companies, because they have the same challenges, and yet... succeed.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 3, 2019 12:28:18 GMT
This is actually them saying how much they suck compared to other companies, because they have the same challenges, and yet... succeed. Exactly. Look at studios like Bend, Insomniac and Sony Santa Monica and how successful their games were and well received by critics as well. And these games had no reliance on MTX to be developed. Does that mean they had smaller budgets than EA's games? How come they are of such high quality, arguably higher than most EA titles, if so? God of War has a 94% metacritic score. Why is Battlefield 5 a measly 81% on PC? A terrible 73% on PS4? My bottom line, I guess, is that EA is lying out its ass, as far as need for monetization goes to make up for development costs, player choice, what a shitload of cock for an excuse and promises of Live Services where there's nothing live about these services.
I can't wait for lootboxes to be banned worldwide and EA's business plan to collapse, only to see them fold not soon after and be forced to sell off their studios and IPs, like THQ did when they filed for bankruptcy and maybe see Bioware revived under the wind of a better publisher than EA, with better, more customer friendly business practices.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 3, 2019 14:20:38 GMT
I disagree with the assertion that Anthem is a "big" game tbh Well, it's "big" in that it had a AAA budget and years to develop. Even if both were largely wasted.
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Post by linksocarina on Jul 4, 2019 13:25:37 GMT
I actually want more round tables like this.
The discussion here was pretty standard stuff but for a less informed public it works. Imagine what they can do with this when discussing something meatier.
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Post by force58 on Jul 4, 2019 14:31:18 GMT
Y'know i've always stated that making games aren't easy...i've mentioned in other threads times that i've taken programming classes and i absolutely hated them. testing lines of code can be a nightmare if you do not test properly. So to be clear, i have always respected what these guys do.....but what i have heard in this vid is no different from what i've heard in other developer documentaries that describe the creative process and execution of the game content. I don't think any of this stuff is easy, but in regards to Anthem? after seeing the train wreck that was Andromeda during its release, they turn around and release a game that wasn't ready at all...repeating the same exact missteps as Andromeda....what the guy from Apex Legends stated in terms of it taking over a year to create a character seems pretty understandable as well....from creating the character to developing the voice overs...the animations from them holding weapons..items etc....these take time. Patches and updates are extremely costly as well.... So imagine a game like ME2 and in how much time it took to create and animate those characters...think of the thousands of lines of code it involves to make sure everything is coded correctly....so i understand how challenging it can be to try to create new content and keep consumers interested, but at the same time, you have to give customers what they want...i'm sure Anthem would have fared better if it was a SP entity rather than a live service....Anthem right now feels like a forced game and with no game plan on future content, i fear by the end of the year that game will be on the chopping block. Nice discussion overall, but nothing that i haven't seen or heard from other developer documentaries that described the difficult process of creating games....seems like EA is trying to get us to sympathize with how tough it is to create games in general....my question to EA...."when are we going to get the next Dead Space game and why in the world did you get rid of visceral?....Dead Space 3 even tho it was a bit more action oriented still had tight dark corridors, excellent side missions and silky smooth gameplay....Dead Space 4 with the marker threat at earth's door would be incredible....not gonna happen if the culture at EA feel SP games are dead tho... After reading what CEO Wilson said a few weeks ago, that sealed it for me, they seriously have no clue. If the company is a representation of those on top then they are doomed. Not acknowledging when something is sh!$ and blaming the players for "not understanding what the game was" is lazy and insulting. The best thing that could happen is BioWare splits with EA like Bungie did with Activision. Companies like EA and Activision are nothing more than money-grubbing, lying, and insensitive jackholes!! Ahhh, feel better already! Oh, I forgot, but to see Ben Irving again with his smug look and arrogance....then actually remembering the launch of Anthem, all the issues "I" had with the game, it seriously just makes me sick.
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Post by biggydx on Jul 4, 2019 14:54:59 GMT
After reading what CEO Wilson said a few weeks ago, that sealed it for me, they seriously have no clue. If the company is a representation of those on top then they are doomed. Not acknowledging when something is sh!$ and blaming the players for "not understanding what the game was" is lazy and insulting. The best thing that could happen is BioWare splits with EA like Bungie did with Activision. Companies like EA and Activision are nothing more than money-grubbing, lying, and insensitive jackholes!! Ahhh, feel better already! Oh, I forgot, but to see Ben Irving again with his smug look and arrogance....then actually remembering the launch of Anthem, all the issues "I" had with the game, it seriously just makes me sick. There's no "splitting" between BioWare and EA. EA owns BioWare, while Bungie merely partnered with Activision. EA also owns all of BioWare's IP's, unlike Bungie, so if/when EA goes down so too does BioWare. As for Ben, I don't really think we have any solid idea of what involvement he had in the development of the project, so I trying to avoid passing judgement. Initially, I didn't like him overseeing the project because of many of the complaints I saw leveled at him from the SW:TOR community; regarding his time leading that game. Either way, EA is definitely pretty tone deaf with all of this.
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Post by force58 on Jul 4, 2019 14:55:36 GMT
EA Unplugged #1Unknown Challenges of Creating Apex Legends, Anthem & Battlefield V Three producers from three of the biggest action-shooter games of the year sat down with players to discuss what worked, what didn't work... and why. It was interesting but certainly looked scripted. If I had been there in the Twitch streamers seat I would have asked Ben how in the world they could have validated releasing Anthem the way they did, and then to seal the deal I would have asked about the Kotaku article. I'd have never been invited back again!!!
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Post by biggydx on Jul 4, 2019 15:12:50 GMT
Usually I'm often interested in behind-the-scenes stuff and hearing the creative minds and devs talk about their game(s). But in this case it seems more like a "nice try" to do some damage control and justify some of the many failures of recent EA history by saying "how hard it is". Yes, it is. But others are facing the same challenges. Minus Frostbite. And there are projects that are much bigger than Anthem, Battlefield or Apex Legends. Difference is that some other devs really care about their customers, care about their product and enjoy playing their game themselves. In Anthem on the other hand for example both is absent: there was/is so much good and constructive feedback from players on a lot of things but they don't really engage with their (non-toxic and constructive part of the) community. And a lot of these things would probably not even have come up if the guys actually really cared for their product and played it a lot, beta-tested it extensively - and of course not wasted most of their development time by messing around and not going anywhere. I don't think its the rank and file devs that aren't passionate about the games that they make. It has more to do with people managing different aspects of the project simply not coalescing around a vision for what they want their games to be; which leads to project stagnation. I am disappointed about BioWare's lack of communication since the games launch. They were quite communicative prior to its release, and I think that's what spurred a lot of players to take interest in the game. Now that's fallen by the wayside for them to stick to the safety of EA's forums. It's a doubling down on Bungies poor communication period after the launch of Destiny 2.
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Post by goishen on Jul 4, 2019 16:03:17 GMT
I can't wait for lootboxes to be banned worldwide and EA's business plan to collapse, only to see them fold not soon after and be forced to sell off their studios and IPs, like THQ did when they filed for bankruptcy and maybe see Bioware revived under the wind of a better publisher than EA, with better, more customer friendly business practices.
See, I just can't be excited about that. I've seen what happens to IP's after they are bought and sold. Look at XCOM. 19 years after the initial release, XCOM1 (from 2K) hit the shelves. Take another look at the Saints Row series. They've been quiet for an extremely long time, and we won't see anything coming from Volition, regarding the SR series. Take a look at Command & Conquer. I could go on if I really wanted to, but I think I've made my point. I don't want to see this shit happen to ME. But if ME decides to herpe derpe it up and completely fuck up everything that we know and love about the series (which already has made SJW statements in the past, read as NOT Andromeda), then I guess it's part of the future for ME. To be sitting on a shelf of some corporation somewhere for years, until after my death.
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Post by XCPTNL on Jul 4, 2019 16:52:27 GMT
I don't think its the rank and file devs that aren't passionate about the games that they make. It has more to do with people managing different aspects of the project simply not coalescing around a vision for what they want their games to be; which leads to project stagnation. I am disappointed about BioWare's lack of communication since the games launch. They were quite communicative prior to its release, and I think that's what spurred a lot of players to take interest in the game. Now that's fallen by the wayside for them to stick to the safety of EA's forums. It's a doubling down on Bungies poor communication period after the launch of Destiny 2. Usually I'd say you are right. But in Anthem's case I really have doubts about the whole team being actually interested in the game. To me it seems nobody actually plays the game or maybe just a few hours here and there. It was evident when I was watching the streams that these people could not play for shit and everyone I know who got into the game was better at playing it just a few hours in. Mainly because they already have experience with similar games which the guys at Bioware als don't seem to have. But ok... that's just some gameplay being done live and even though I expect them to do be better gamers at their own game than they were on stream I can't base my judgement on this alone. But there are so many minor flaws and annoyances in the game most people who play the game would like to see changed and nothing is being done about it. And I'm talking about what seems like pretty simple stuff: a stats page, more inventory space, salvaging or dropping items on the go, mass salvaging at the end of the mission, mass crafting consumables, being able to set waypoints, a more userfriendly UI, being able to play with the same people you just had a match with and so on. There is so much stuff that makes you go thinking "apparently they have never actually played their own game for more than a few minutes". They probably should have a few people that are good gamers and basically do nothing else but play Anthem and Warframe all day long and tell the devs what needs to be changed or added.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 4, 2019 16:56:15 GMT
I can't wait for lootboxes to be banned worldwide and EA's business plan to collapse, only to see them fold not soon after and be forced to sell off their studios and IPs, like THQ did when they filed for bankruptcy and maybe see Bioware revived under the wind of a better publisher than EA, with better, more customer friendly business practices.
See, I just can't be excited about that. I've seen what happens to IP's after they are bought and sold. Look at XCOM. 19 years after the initial release, XCOM1 (from 2K) hit the shelves. Take another look at the Saints Row series. They've been quiet for an extremely long time, and we won't see anything coming from Volition, regarding the SR series. Take a look at Command & Conquer. I could go on if I really wanted to, but I think I've made my point. I don't want to see this shit happen to ME. But if ME decides to herpe derpe it up and completely fuck up everything that we know and love about the series (which already has made SJW statements in the past, read as NOT Andromeda), then I guess it's part of the future for ME. To be sitting on a shelf of some corporation somewhere for years, until after my death. I think that depends on two things, the new publisher that buys the studio from the defunct publisher and whether the original studio is left more or less intact. Take Relic Entertainment, for example. As soon as SEGA bought them out, they began work on Dawn of War 3. Granted, it wasn't a very good game, but the IP did continue and rather rapidly, as well. If, say, Microsoft bought out Bioware from a defunct EA, who is to say they wouldn't work on the next ME or DA straight away?
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Post by goishen on Jul 4, 2019 17:33:37 GMT
I think that depends on two things, the new publisher that buys the studio from the defunct publisher and whether the original studio is left more or less intact. Take Relic Entertainment, for example. As soon as SEGA bought them out, they began work on Dawn of War 3. Granted, it wasn't a very good game, but the IP did continue and rather rapidly, as well. If, say, Microsoft bought out Bioware from a defunct EA, who is to say they wouldn't work on the next ME or DA straight away? I mean, yah, you're right. I was taking a "worst case scenario" approach. In all likelyhood, they would start development on another ME game right away. This is prolly after DA, just because DA has made them so much money that they can just blow that money making another ME game. But meh... How do you go from a galaxy wide threat like the reapers? Meh, I have some ideas, but nothing very big. It's all about the batarians being pissed about what they see as Shepard fucking them over. It's set about 600 years later, and the Batarians taking on a white nationalist stance (and a terrorist stance). Why so much later? It gives the situation a chance to cool off for the rest of the galaxy, and a chance to foment a Batarian only power movement. Plus, it gives the Batarians a chance to repopulate. The rest of the galaxy is kind'a like America at the moment, where we don't really have any very large threats against us. We have a bunch of very small threats, that can explode (sometimes quite literally) into large threats. Batarian women have a definite say here, as do the Asari. Fuck, I can't believe that someone at BioWare has taken their femaleness from them. Meh, I should really flesh out my ideas.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 4, 2019 18:28:27 GMT
I think that depends on two things, the new publisher that buys the studio from the defunct publisher and whether the original studio is left more or less intact. Take Relic Entertainment, for example. As soon as SEGA bought them out, they began work on Dawn of War 3. Granted, it wasn't a very good game, but the IP did continue and rather rapidly, as well. If, say, Microsoft bought out Bioware from a defunct EA, who is to say they wouldn't work on the next ME or DA straight away? I mean, yah, you're right. I was taking a "worst case scenario" approach. In all likelyhood, they would start development on another ME game right away. This is prolly after DA, just because DA has made them so much money that they can just blow that money making another ME game. But meh... How do you go from a galaxy wide threat like the reapers? Meh, I have some ideas, but nothing very big. It's all about the batarians being pissed about what they see as Shepard fucking them over. It's set about 600 years later, and the Batarians taking on a white nationalist stance (and a terrorist stance). Why so much later? It gives the situation a chance to cool off for the rest of the galaxy, and a chance to foment a Batarian only power movement. Plus, it gives the Batarians a chance to repopulate. The rest of the galaxy is kind'a like America at the moment, where we don't really have any very large threats against us. We have a bunch of very small threats, that can explode (sometimes quite literally) into large threats. Batarian women have a definite say here, as do the Asari. Fuck, I can't believe that someone at BioWare has taken their femaleness from them. Meh, I should really flesh out my ideas. Well, I have my own idea of how I'd go about it. It's not even a sequel. It's the world's first simult-quel. I coined it, now anyone that does it will have to pay me royalties. Suck it, world.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 4, 2019 19:51:24 GMT
I always thought Batarians are like the Irish militants or the Alqaeda!
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Post by biggydx on Jul 4, 2019 20:02:40 GMT
Usually I'd say you are right. But in Anthem's case I really have doubts about the whole team being actually interested in the game. I don't disagree with you on the fact that they may feel miserable working on trying to get Anthem in a good spot. The crux of what I was getting at, is that they're likely passionate developers, who aren't having their talents fully realized by bad management practices. It's hard to showcase ones talent when, if reporting is to be believed, they only really had two years to really develop the game. Adding to that dilemma is the devs not even knowing what the game was meant to be. I can't say if those who run the day-to-day operations at BioWare will be able to get their heads on straight, but I think if they were able to solidify on a concept for their games (and in less time), it would be to the betterment of the knitty-gritty developers. The bonus is that they wouldn't have to crunch for months (if not years) on end.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:46:14 GMT
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twitch.tv/goishen
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goishen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by goishen on Jul 5, 2019 14:34:56 GMT
Right. But they've had seven years to develop the game. Look, I'm not saying that it's any one person's fault. I'm just saying that it stinks in Denmark, and someone should do something.
And, by the looks of it, they are trying to lay the blame at the developers feet and trying to lay the blame entirely on them. I'm basing this on the number of developers that have left. Of course, I dunno. I don't work there. Even if I did work there, all I could share with you is one person's perspective.
Management WILL not take any blame.
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Sondergaard
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
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sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by Sondergaard on Jul 5, 2019 17:08:52 GMT
I actually want more round tables like this. The discussion here was pretty standard stuff but for a less informed public it works. Imagine what they can do with this when discussing something meatier. They'll never discuss something 'meatier. This is PR pure and simple. Stick to the script and make the bosses look good.
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