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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jul 11, 2019 21:13:38 GMT
Never would be too soon. There’s no upside and tons of downside to any kind of early look. Is any franchise fan that really liked DAI/Trepasser **not** going to buy the game without a gameplay preview? Is there much of a market for players entering the franchise for the first time with DA4? I doubt it. So no upside. Downside should be obvious. I’ll just say Andromeda and Anthem. The issue with "never" is that they will "never" make a Dragon Age game for just the people that have played the previous entries, nor should they. They will - and should - always be trying to get new players. That is, if I recall correctly, one of the reasons Inquisition was Dragon Age: Inquisition, and not Dragon Age 3: Inquisition. It was a simple change to not put new players off by thinking they may have missed out on something (although they totally did, because Origins is awesome). New players (or potential new players) are not going to be drawn in by shiny trailers or cutscenes/screenshots. Or, at least not many of them. Gameplay is what will get them to open their wallets - if it's good. You are right that there is little to no upside from showing gameplay early with regards to players - like me - that loved DAI/Trespasser. Especially since I didn't lose any confidence in Bioware over MEA or Anthem because - well - I just didn't care if those games were good or not.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 12, 2019 1:07:27 GMT
Never would be too soon. There’s no upside and tons of downside to any kind of early look. Is any franchise fan that really liked DAI/Trepasser **not** going to buy the game without a gameplay preview? Is there much of a market for players entering the franchise for the first time with DA4? I doubt it. So no upside. Downside should be obvious. I’ll just say Andromeda and Anthem. The issue with "never" is that they will "never" make a Dragon Age game for just the people that have played the previous entries, nor should they. They will - and should - always be trying to get new players. That is, if I recall correctly, one of the reasons Inquisition was Dragon Age: Inquisition, and not Dragon Age 3: Inquisition. It was a simple change to not put new players off by thinking they may have missed out on something (although they totally did, because Origins is awesome). New players (or potential new players) are not going to be drawn in by shiny trailers or cutscenes/screenshots. Or, at least not many of them. Gameplay is what will get them to open their wallets - if it's good. You are right that there is little to no upside from showing gameplay early with regards to players - like me - that loved DAI/Trespasser. Especially since I didn't lose any confidence in Bioware over MEA or Anthem because - well - I just didn't care if those games were good or not. This speaks to me. Even if I did have problems with Andromeda (I didn't have many) my opinion on Andromeda really does not effect my 'hype' for four. Sure they may be the same company but technically were devellopped by different teams, studios, and are entirely different franchises so there is literally zero reason to assume any problems with Andromeda (or Anthem) will translate into DA 4. Yes the game might get rushed and have serious crunch but given some of the things I've read and heard I think they'll aavoid that problem...more or less.
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Post by operationathena on Jul 13, 2019 19:23:03 GMT
Probably ASAP, because folks like myself who were NOT big on the single-player MMO style are going to want to know if we should expect that type of game. I know we're never getting Origins style again, but if I can get something circa DA2 with less recycled environment I'll be a (fairly) happy camper.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 14, 2019 14:51:43 GMT
there is literally zero reason to assume any problems with Andromeda (or Anthem) will translate into DA 4 But we do know that Inquisition's problems translated directly and worse into Andromeda and then Anthem. We even have testaments of people working in Bioware that Inquisition was a fluke and actually hated it, for perpetuating a situation of constant crunch and mismanagement. So, if anything, you should be extremely skeptical. However, I am hearing that the internal problems at Bioware are being ironed out. With Mark Darrah in charge, who stomped his foot down on Anthem Development and got shit done, after five and a half years of Bioware's idling and thumb twiddling, things are looking up. But 2023 is a long way away.
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Post by biggydx on Jul 14, 2019 18:49:53 GMT
I don't expect DA4 to release until 2023. It gives BioWare time for next-gen consoles to saturate the market, and it also ensures they aren't limited to the previous console generation; as was the case with Inquisition. there is literally zero reason to assume any problems with Andromeda (or Anthem) will translate into DA 4 But we do know that Inquisition's problems translated directly and worse into Andromeda and then Anthem. We even have testaments of people working in Bioware that Inquisition was a fluke and actually hated it, for perpetuating a situation of constant crunch and mismanagement. So, if anything, you should be extremely skeptical. However, I am hearing that the internal problems at Bioware are being ironed out. With Mark Darrah in charge, who stomped his foot down on Anthem Development and got shit done, after five and a half years of Bioware's idling and thumb twiddling, things are looking up. But 2023 is a long way away. I'm still of the opinion that many of the structural problems in Dragon Age: Inquisition, Andromeda, and Anthem, can be - to some degree - contributable to the Frostbite engine. There's been a number of developers who have stated that the engine leads to a lot of bugs in their games. Most recently, DICE had an update for Battlefield V, and it's made the game worse than what it was prior to the patch.
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Post by Gileadan on Jul 16, 2019 8:48:12 GMT
I think that the date of gameplay release, if any, depends on whether BioWare wants any fan input about it. Some people, especially game journalists recently, have stated that developers should ignore fan feedback - which is fine with me, since I'm not forced to buy their products and am more than happy to vote with my wallet.
If they do want player feedback on gameplay, they should release it early enough to make some adjustments if necessary.
If they don't want any feedback, just before release is fine so it can help making a purchase decision.
If they don't release any gameplay footage at all I'd probably just extrapolate from the franchise's general trend in that aspect.
I voted six months. Unless BioWare's company culture changes drastically, the lion's share of the work will be done about 18 months before release anyway...
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Post by Silversmurf on Jul 16, 2019 18:15:36 GMT
Haha yeah, I no-lifed it to #1 on PS4 I still haven't played the SP......it's on my to-do list along with Horizon Zero Dawn and 20 or so others.... Oh, and I voted 3 months. What was your prestige level? I can't remember if I stopped around 700 or 900, but it was up there by the time I stopped. 9309
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Post by biggydx on Jul 17, 2019 0:48:54 GMT
What was your prestige level? I can't remember if I stopped around 700 or 900, but it was up there by the time I stopped. 9309 My god...
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Post by Little Bengel on Jul 18, 2019 23:15:41 GMT
I voted 6 months. Mostly because I think it allows for some breathing room address player feedback on any potentially problematic thing that ends up appearing.
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Post by bizantura on Jul 25, 2019 11:37:25 GMT
Wondering what kind of interest Dragon Age 4 will be able to generate if it goes public with news.
In the past, Bioware forums were teeming with life concerning any of their games long after release. Now they bable about 10-year life spans for a game and can't generate interest for 3 months!! Life-service turns out to be the death knell of said games.
But yes, can Bioware stir up anticipation as they used too? I remember Bioware forums full of life and contention in opinions, now it is a dead Dodo! I suppose Bioware closed their forums for a reason at least they had that foresight it was the gamers that weren't prepared in why.
Will this forum close if DA4 does not deliver?
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 25, 2019 18:59:34 GMT
You're expecting a lot of chatter without much to talk about. Is that really the way we used to do things?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 25, 2019 19:04:11 GMT
You're expecting a lot of chatter without much to talk about. Is that really the way we used to do things? hell if anything the chatter has been rather remarkable for an unannounced game.
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 25, 2019 20:02:37 GMT
You're expecting a lot of chatter without much to talk about. Is that really the way we used to do things? hell if anything the chatter has been rather remarkable for an unannounced game. Yeah, I'd say there's still a good amount of chatter (here and on twitter), all things considered. Especially since DA4 is still likely a couple years (or so) out, and ME... who knows. If DA/ME were still in a "normal" production cycle, DA4 would've already been out a whole year. We'd be talking about the latest DLC, and probably already getting hints at the next ME game....
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Post by colfoley on Jul 25, 2019 20:08:26 GMT
hell if anything the chatter has been rather remarkable for an unannounced game. Yeah, I'd say there's still a good amount of chatter (here and on twitter), all things considered. Especially since DA4 is still likely a couple years (or so) out, and ME... who knows. If DA/ME were still in a "normal" production cycle, DA4 would've already been out a whole year. We'd be talking about the latest DLC, and probably already getting hints at the next ME game.... wouldn't that be something? I want to be in that alternative universe.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jul 25, 2019 20:11:16 GMT
You're expecting a lot of chatter without much to talk about. Is that really the way we used to do things? Definitely not. From - as I recall - 2003/04 onwards we were treated to a nearly uninterrupted stream (in some cases a veritable torrent) of information about Dragon Age (before it was called Origins), ME1, DA2, ME2, ME3 and DAI. There was always something new to talk about and obsess over. Now, Bioware have changed the way they market their games while in development (read: not really hyping at all) and the resulting radio silence in between titles has changed the way the player base talks to each other. There was also the "official" status - and many of the devs interacted on the forum. All of that has changed. Whether for the better or worse is likely to be a matter of opinion, but it's affect on Bioware 'focused' forum life can't be understated. Like a couple of others - I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the amount of activity the forum sees on a daily basis, given how little new (or even recent) info there is to discuss.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 25, 2019 20:14:32 GMT
You're expecting a lot of chatter without much to talk about. Is that really the way we used to do things? Definitely not. From - as I recall - 2003/04 onwards we were treated to a nearly uninterrupted stream (in some cases a veritable torrent) of information about Dragon Age (before it was called Origins), ME1, DA2, ME2, ME3 and DAI. There was always something new to talk about and obsess over. Now, Bioware have changed the way they market their games while in development (read: not really hyping at all) and the resulting radio silence in between titles has changed the way the player base talks to each other. There was also the "official" status - and many of the devs interacted on the forum. All of that has changed. Whether for the better or worse is likely to be a matter of opinion, but it's affect on Bioware 'focused' forum life can't be understated. Like a couple of others - I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the amount of activity the forum sees on a daily basis, given how little new (or even recent) info there is to discuss. if anything though the fandom only has itself to blame for bios current marketing... more then likely.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jul 25, 2019 20:26:14 GMT
Definitely not. From - as I recall - 2003/04 onwards we were treated to a nearly uninterrupted stream (in some cases a veritable torrent) of information about Dragon Age (before it was called Origins), ME1, DA2, ME2, ME3 and DAI. There was always something new to talk about and obsess over. Now, Bioware have changed the way they market their games while in development (read: not really hyping at all) and the resulting radio silence in between titles has changed the way the player base talks to each other. There was also the "official" status - and many of the devs interacted on the forum. All of that has changed. Whether for the better or worse is likely to be a matter of opinion, but it's affect on Bioware 'focused' forum life can't be understated. Like a couple of others - I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the amount of activity the forum sees on a daily basis, given how little new (or even recent) info there is to discuss. if anything though the fandom only has itself to blame for bios current marketing... more then likely. Perhaps. Although I'm actually inclined to think that Bioware have learned - the hard way - that endless hype can only lead to massive (or at least, widespread) disappointment in a final product. I liked DA2, some here will have loved it (maybe even think it's the best DA game yet released), but even it's admirers, if they're being honest with themselves will have to admit that the prevailing opinion of it was one of being let down when compared with the reception Origins got. I loved (and still love) Inquisition, but even I was disappointed by the final product. Because - while I love it - it wasn't as mind blowing as I was lead to believe it would be. Did Bioware do that to me? Did I do it to myself? No idea, but I doubt I'm unique in this regard. So while the change in the Bioware "Hype Machine" poses an issue or two for forum life, I think - on balance - they're handling that side of things correctly. Of course, no amount of hype management can account for the issues that Anthem has encountered.
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Post by dielveio on Jul 25, 2019 22:15:06 GMT
"HOW SOON SHOULD BIOWARE UNVEIL GAMEPLAY FOR DRAGON AGE 4; PRIOR TO ITS RELEASE?"
Like Bethesda did with fallout 4. Shown gampeplay, released the game a few months after it.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 26, 2019 23:02:28 GMT
On the subject of... this kind of thing. If they do go the full live service route it might be nice to have some sort of 'beta' for MP and SP about 3 months before release. Soon enough where they can still make some changes to the game and begin planning out their patches more thoroughly and it would give...at the very least some time to play the game.
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Post by Polka Dot on Jul 28, 2019 22:20:54 GMT
hell if anything the chatter has been rather remarkable for an unannounced game. Yeah, I'd say there's still a good amount of chatter (here and on twitter), all things considered. Especially since DA4 is still likely a couple years (or so) out, and ME... who knows. If DA/ME were still in a "normal" production cycle, DA4 would've already been out a whole year. We'd be talking about the latest DLC, and probably already getting hints at the next ME game.... Had Anthem been a typical BioWare release - SP, party based, crew of followers, romances, etc. - the Anthem sub-forums would probably be buzzing with discussion and anticipation of DLCs yet to come. As it stands, things are really in limbo for DA, and even moreso for ME. OT: I voted 3 months. Any sooner might be a bit premature, and I really don't want to see another Crestwood scenario happen. Also, it's difficult to maintain hype for an extended period, and I think their marketing efforts may be more effective if that's limited to a shorter timeframe.
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Post by biggydx on Jul 29, 2019 4:55:55 GMT
Yeah, I'd say there's still a good amount of chatter (here and on twitter), all things considered. Especially since DA4 is still likely a couple years (or so) out, and ME... who knows. If DA/ME were still in a "normal" production cycle, DA4 would've already been out a whole year. We'd be talking about the latest DLC, and probably already getting hints at the next ME game.... Had Anthem been a typical BioWare release - SP, party based, crew of followers, romances, etc. - the Anthem sub-forums would probably be buzzing with discussion and anticipation of DLCs yet to come. As it stands, things are really in limbo for DA, and even moreso for ME. OT: I voted 3 months. Any sooner might be a bit premature, and I really don't want to see another Crestwood scenario happen. Also, it's difficult to maintain hype for an extended period, and I think their marketing efforts may be more effective if that's limited to a shorter timeframe. I don't even think it would have even needed to have been that close to their genre mainstay. If they had went the Gearbox/Borderlands route even, the game might have came out somewhat better than it did. The Borderlands games weren't tied down by a live-service element, and DLC's were interspersed across several months, with new characters and cosmetics being introduced along the way. With live-service comes the expectation of what traditional comes with said experiences (e.g. seasons, events, constant balance changes, new loot tables), especially in the realm of a quasi, action MMO like Anthem. Setting those expectations, among other things, pretty much forced them along a track where they're making promises that they can't possibly fulfill; or at least not in a reasonable time period for players. It's why BioWare basically scrapped their entire roadmap.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jul 29, 2019 16:25:17 GMT
As soon as possible to create hype but to also see the general response so they can make changes along the way.
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