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Post by natetrace on Aug 9, 2019 16:53:57 GMT
Agreed. It's got to be solid and I think they can do it. I believe they are too disconnected from the gaming audience to pull it off. I think you could say that about multiple gaming studios. This isn't exclusive to BioWare (whose games I still enjoy, despite their issues)
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 9, 2019 16:56:50 GMT
I think you could say that about multiple gaming studios Yes, I could, but this isn't Battle.net etc.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 9, 2019 18:16:41 GMT
Well, finding out if that's true or not is exactly why EA has a marketing department. If anything, Wilson's statement as to EA's future marketing endeavors is to shut up with the marketing bullshit and let everyone else say whatever they want. It was covered by various gaming and non-gaming media outlets, about 2-3 months ago.
So EA's strategy from now on, is to release games in a similar way that Anthem was, have them in early access when they are barely playable, in which case it will be ripped to shreds by the media, you can bet on that, which will result in heavy handed criticism by the playerbase, the devs being non communicative, EA interpreting this as the game being non-viable and most likely canning it.
Add to that the fact that Andrew Wilson wants to engage 12 year olds.
I am not holding my breath for any future EA title. Not Bioware pecific title, any EA title. Corporate meddling in game development has reached toxic heights. Similarly, I am not looking forward to any Ubisoft, Bethesda and especially not ActiVision title.
I hope Piranha Bytes shows up with a new game at Gamescom.
This is pretty far divorced from what I actually posted. I'm not actually sure why you bothered to make this a reply. Part of marketing's job is to find out what will work (unless the company breaks research out into a separate department; I don't know if EA marketing does that.)
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 9, 2019 18:17:36 GMT
This is pretty far divorced from what I actually posted If you say so.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 9, 2019 22:47:32 GMT
If you talked about market research, I missed it.
Edit: as for marketing rather than market research, looks like EA thinks that marketing couldn't have helped ME:A or Anthem. Not attempting to conceal the flaws before release is a good thing, isn't it?
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 12, 2019 2:15:57 GMT
Agreed. It's got to be solid and I think they can do it. I believe they are too disconnected from the gaming audience to pull it off. I don't. I think they can.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 12, 2019 2:17:25 GMT
Andromeda 2 will sell fine if they do a great job with it. Most even the haters I feel if it's good will give it a shot. At this stage I'll take what I can get but I want Andromeda 2. I don't think Andromeda 2 would get a fair shake right now. I think it will get buried pre-release with memes, reviewers will give it mostly negative reviews with a few positive notes and the game will tank commercially, exactly because of all the negative PR, which will lead to the shelving of the IP. Just because here we generally tend to suck Bioware's cock, not necessarily a bad thing mind you, doesn't mean everyone else will. Si vis pacem, para bellum. If reviews pan it for being Andromeda then that's on them. If its technically solid with a good story that's all fans care about.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 12, 2019 18:59:23 GMT
I don't. I think they can. They've failed twice. In a row. And with the A-Team in charge of their most ambitious, new fanbase grabbing project. If reviews pan it for being Andromeda then that's on them. If its technically solid with a good story that's all fans care about. Who are their fans? Can someone answer that for me? They don't want me and that's fine, I wish them the best, but I don't see people singing the praise of Bioware anymore.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2019 20:11:09 GMT
I don't. I think they can. They've failed twice. In a row. And with the A-Team in charge of their most ambitious, new fanbase grabbing project. I initially read that as "fanbase gambling project" Still works either way
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 12, 2019 21:09:26 GMT
Who are their fans? Can someone answer that for me? They don't want me and that's fine, I wish them the best, but I don't see people singing the praise of Bioware anymore. "Fans of cinematic action-RPG games"? Has anything even changed in the last decade? OW aside, ME:A wasn't trying to do anything that the earlier ME games hadn't done.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 12, 2019 21:14:50 GMT
Who are their fans? Can someone answer that for me? They don't want me and that's fine, I wish them the best, but I don't see people singing the praise of Bioware anymore. "Fans of cinematic action-RPG games"? Has anything even changed in the last decade? OW aside, ME:A wasn't trying to do anything that the earlier ME games hadn't done. So why wasn't it received as well as previous ME games? Is the ME universe dead?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 12, 2019 22:21:37 GMT
The poor management of the ME:A project is well-documented. A lot of time and money was spent pursuing technological solutions which proved unfeasible. The basic vision may have been flawed in the first place -- I've always thought that ME1 succeeded despite its UNC missions, not because of them, and it was never clear how a boatload of procedurally-generated planets would have made for compelling gameplay even if Bio had delivered them.
In general, I don't think Bio has ever really worked out how to integrate OW elements into their storytelling. ME:A comes off somewhat worse than DAI. I think that the Nomad implementation ended up being just emphasizing the pointlessness of a lot of encounters; something that was at least padding in DAI became something you could just drive around.
ME:A also had problems with the basic loot/upgrade gameplay loop which were oddly similar to Anthem's. Loot rapidly becomes nearly worthless since crafted gear is so much better and the odds of deconstruction giving you the specific mats you want are low, and equipping only one character means that the list of things you actually want to find is very short. XP becomes nearly worthless in the midgame too, as the three-power limit kicks in and the PC becomes fairly static. (Profile switching doesn't seem to have been all that popular.)
There are a few more things, but this is getting long. In general, I'd say that, while ME:A's reception was maybe a bit unfair, it is a game with serious problems. It failed mostly because of itself rather than any problems with the series.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 13, 2019 9:17:40 GMT
The poor management of the ME:A project is well-documented. A lot of time and money was spent pursuing technological solutions which proved unfeasible. The basic vision may have been flawed in the first place -- I've always thought that ME1 succeeded despite its UNC missions, not because of them, and it was never clear how a boatload of procedurally-generated planets would have made for compelling gameplay even if Bio had delivered them. In general, I don't think Bio has ever really worked out how to integrate OW elements into their storytelling. ME:A comes off somewhat worse than DAI. I think that the Nomad implementation ended up being just emphasizing the pointlessness of a lot of encounters; something that was at least padding in DAI became something you could just drive around. ME:A also had problems with the basic loot/upgrade gameplay loop which were oddly similar to Anthem's. Loot rapidly becomes nearly worthless since crafted gear is so much better and the odds of deconstruction giving you the specific mats you want are low, and equipping only one character means that the list of things you actually want to find is very short. XP becomes nearly worthless in the midgame too, as the three-power limit kicks in and the PC becomes fairly static. (Profile switching doesn't seem to have been all that popular.) There are a few more things, but this is getting long. In general, I'd say that, while ME:A's reception was maybe a bit unfair, it is a game with serious problems. It failed mostly because of itself rather than any problems with the series. In short, Bioware fucked up.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 13, 2019 9:55:11 GMT
That crappy petition really took off.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 14, 2019 2:45:54 GMT
The poor management of the ME:A project is well-documented. A lot of time and money was spent pursuing technological solutions which proved unfeasible. The basic vision may have been flawed in the first place -- I've always thought that ME1 succeeded despite its UNC missions, not because of them, and it was never clear how a boatload of procedurally-generated planets would have made for compelling gameplay even if Bio had delivered them. In general, I don't think Bio has ever really worked out how to integrate OW elements into their storytelling. ME:A comes off somewhat worse than DAI. I think that the Nomad implementation ended up being just emphasizing the pointlessness of a lot of encounters; something that was at least padding in DAI became something you could just drive around. ME:A also had problems with the basic loot/upgrade gameplay loop which were oddly similar to Anthem's. Loot rapidly becomes nearly worthless since crafted gear is so much better and the odds of deconstruction giving you the specific mats you want are low, and equipping only one character means that the list of things you actually want to find is very short. XP becomes nearly worthless in the midgame too, as the three-power limit kicks in and the PC becomes fairly static. (Profile switching doesn't seem to have been all that popular.) There are a few more things, but this is getting long. In general, I'd say that, while ME:A's reception was maybe a bit unfair, it is a game with serious problems. It failed mostly because of itself rather than any problems with the series. In short, Bioware fucked up. They made some mistakes that can be corrected in the next one.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 14, 2019 13:06:12 GMT
They made some mistakes that can be corrected in the next one. Bioware proudly presents Mass Effect: Andromeda 2, we made a game with the things you didn't like the first time, but we promise it'll be good this time.I'm not saying it can't be a good game, but nobody's going to lose a wink over it. At best, people who do remember Andromeda are going to go with a reluctant "I don't know" and at worst people are going to laugh at it and not in a Saints Row 4 kind of way, where it is a goodhearted laugh, no, this will be a malicious one.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 14, 2019 15:36:12 GMT
They made some mistakes that can be corrected in the next one. Bioware proudly presents Mass Effect: Andromeda 2, we made a game with the things you didn't like the first time, but we promise it'll be good this time.I'm not saying it can't be a good game, but nobody's going to lose a wink over it. At best, people who do remember Andromeda are going to go with a reluctant "I don't know" and at worst people are going to laugh at it and not in a Saints Row 4 kind of way, where it is a goodhearted laugh, no, this will be a malicious one. Some will but I believe enough will go with a cautionary approach and try it but with low expectations.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 14, 2019 15:55:36 GMT
Some will but I believe enough will go with a cautionary approach and try it but with low expectations. How much is enough? And is your enough going to cut it for EA? If it's not and I personally don't believe it is, would you like the possible outcome to that?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 14, 2019 17:09:03 GMT
Is any other approach actually better?
Even if we get past that, there's no reason to care about the series surviving if the series only survives by producing games that you personally don't want to play. I'll take one game I like over multiple games I don't like. Edit: unless making ME-branded crap is actually necessary to keep DA going, which might change things.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 14, 2019 17:34:52 GMT
Some will but I believe enough will go with a cautionary approach and try it but with low expectations. How much is enough? And is your enough going to cut it for EA? If it's not and I personally don't believe it is, would you like the possible outcome to that? Probably not but any approach right now will be just as risky. A reboot, continuation of the MW story, Shepard somehow surving all that creates issues. The safest approach is to imo continue with what they started and hope it goes over well.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 14, 2019 17:54:08 GMT
There you go. any approach right now will be just as risky But some will be more commercial than others. And that's the thing that matters right now. The safest approach is to imo continue with what they started and hope it goes over well. It's a safe way to become defunct, maybe.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 14, 2019 18:01:44 GMT
There you go. any approach right now will be just as risky But some will be more commercial than others. And that's the thing that matters right now. The safest approach is to imo continue with what they started and hope it goes over well. It's a safe way to become defunct, maybe. True. It's just not what I want or hope for. But as I said I'll take what I can get ME wise. I still enjoy my Andromeda runs regardless.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 14, 2019 18:05:33 GMT
True. It's just not what I want or hope for. But as I said I'll take what I can get ME wise. I still enjoy my Andromeda runs regardless. I've said it before, we should get an Andromeda 2, but ideally, we should also get an Andromeda 3. The goal isn't to get Andromeda 2 and then have EA dissolve the studio. That's not what I want.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 14, 2019 21:11:56 GMT
How much is enough? And is your enough going to cut it for EA? If it's not and I personally don't believe it is, would you like the possible outcome to that? Probably not but any approach right now will be just as risky. A reboot, continuation of the MW story, Shepard somehow surving all that creates issues. The safest approach is to imo continue with what they started and hope it goes over well. I'm leaning that way myself. The arguments against continuing in the MW haven't become any less potent since they drove the series to Andromeda, have they? FWIW, my personal preference, since way before ME:A was even announced, was kind of like what's discussed in that other thread -- time-jump forward a few hundred years, a single starting world-state set by whatever the plurality of players did at the appropriate decision-points in the MET. (Start i Sol system and we have access to members of all extant MW races for a crew, since enough of at least the majors were at the battle of Earth to form viable breeding populations. And so forth. But this approach didn't make the cut then, and I don't see why it would now.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 14, 2019 21:33:13 GMT
I do believe times have changed and Bioware is in need of a drastic solution. The return of ME's most iconic character along with the crew that elevated ME OT to its legendary status is a sure fire ticket to the studios survival, more than it is a source of contention. You may not like it as a solution, but it would be the least negatively impacted title Bioware would be able to make in the ME universe. If you believe that they still shouldn't make a return to the MW with Shepard, then I strongly suggest that Bioware, for their own sake, stay away from Mass Effect for the foreseeable future. If they even do have something else up their sleeves to help them trudge along for that long.
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