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Post by githcheater on Aug 4, 2019 22:58:05 GMT
That article triggers my fear that DA4 will be sanitized.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 4, 2019 23:01:00 GMT
That article triggers my fear that DA4 will be sanitized. of course it does.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 4, 2019 23:18:53 GMT
That article triggers my fear that DA4 will be sanitized. nuance =/= sanitization
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 5, 2019 19:42:33 GMT
That article triggers my fear that DA4 will be sanitized. nuance =/= sanitization Well I certainly hope they treat the topic with nuance. I’m coming at this from the perspective of someone who studied with a professor who specialized in the study of Caribbean slave societies of the colonial era, and I learned a lot about the complex social dynamics that can exist in a slave society. Mostly I just hope they don’t plop southern US slavery into Thedas and give it no further thought. Krem and Dorian were handled fairly well where the topic was concerned, so I have some hope.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2019 19:58:14 GMT
Well I certainly hope they treat the topic with nuance. I’m coming at this from the perspective of someone who studied with a professor who specialized in the study of Caribbean slave societies of the colonial era, and I learned a lot about the complex social dynamics that can exist in a slave society. Mostly I just hope they don’t plop southern US slavery into Thedas and give it no further thought. Krem and Dorian were handled fairly well where the topic was concerned, so I have some hope. most definitely. There were other forms of slavery throughout history and I think people (maybe Americans especially) tend to get confused about the difference. BioWares only real sin here is they tend to confuse indentured servitude with slavery. But then that was slavery at times.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 5, 2019 21:50:11 GMT
That article triggers my fear that DA4 will be sanitized. They should listen to criticism, it’s how they’ll get better as game developers.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2019 21:50:51 GMT
That article triggers my fear that DA4 will be sanitized. They should listen to criticism, it’s how they’ll get better as game developers. Depends on the criticism.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 5, 2019 21:53:32 GMT
They should listen to criticism, it’s how they’ll get better as game developers. Depends on the criticism. Of course if that criticism comprises of things like: “this game has gone woke!!!” Or “this game is racist, sexist thrash!!!!!” Then its best be ignored.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2019 21:56:11 GMT
Depends on the criticism. Of course if that criticism comprises of things like: “this game has gone woke!!!” Or “this game is racist, sexist thrash!!!!!” Then its best be ignored. what if it were: "This game is woke and racist sexist trash"?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 5, 2019 22:00:45 GMT
What would be a better RW fit for Tevinter slavery? I'd say Roman, but Rome had a commitment to the rule of law that Tevinter doesn't seem to share.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2019 22:02:38 GMT
What would be a better RW fit for Tevinter slavery? I'd say Roman, but Rome had a commitment to the rule of law that Tevinter doesn't seem to share. I think Lorerunner compared them to the Byzantine Empire when he was marathon DA O and DA 2.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 5, 2019 23:13:12 GMT
What would be a better RW fit for Tevinter slavery? I'd say Roman, but Rome had a commitment to the rule of law that Tevinter doesn't seem to share. What do you mean?
EDIT: Seeking clarification on the "not committed to the rule of law" bit, to be more specific. I don't think I've seen a Tevinter flout their laws, at least not particularly more than any other.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 5, 2019 23:27:14 GMT
What would be a better RW fit for Tevinter slavery? I'd say Roman, but Rome had a commitment to the rule of law that Tevinter doesn't seem to share. I think Lorerunner compared them to the Byzantine Empire when he was marathon DA O and DA 2. Didn't Gaider also make that comparison...? During Origins development/pre-release hype period? Around the same time as he called the Qun "Militant Islamic Borg", as I recall.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 5, 2019 23:31:12 GMT
I think Lorerunner compared them to the Byzantine Empire when he was marathon DA O and DA 2. Didn't Gaider also make that comparison...? During Origins development/pre-release hype period? Around the same time as he called the Qun "Militant Islamic Borg", as I recall. I wasn't following along back then so I have no idea... But the Qun comment is fascinating since that's how I have pretty much described them in the past.
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Post by phoray on Aug 7, 2019 17:24:38 GMT
Meh. Vivienne didn't become Viv, the Iron Lady, because she was black. She became that way because she was a mage in Thedas. So she didn't need to be written by a black person and more than Dorian needed to be written by a Persian person...if anything, the person was also arguing that all elves should be written by black people. Just bad argument all around
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 17:59:50 GMT
Meh. Vivienne didn't become Viv, the Iron Lady, because she was black. She became that way because she was a mage in Thedas. So she didn't need to be written by a black person and more than Dorian needed to be written by a Persian person...if anything, the person was also arguing that all elves should be written by black people. Just bad argument all around 1. You clearly did not read the article, or merely skimmed it at most. It never said that she "became that way" because she was black and it most certainly never said or even implied that the elves should be written by black people. Just that the things that can be seen as stereotypes in Vivienne's writing ("The Ice Queen" and "Strong Angry Black Woman" as examples) could have be handled with more nuance if written by someone that is the target of being labeled as those things, and that an internalized racism storyline could have been better written and handled with more nuance if also written by someone who faces those things(The article doesn't even specify black people for this one, just people who face racism). Just like how the two women on the writers team spoke up about the scene that was going to be added in DAI that could easily be seen as rape. If their voices/perspective weren't there, none of the men in the writers room would have noticed the problem. 2. Dorian is Indian, not Persian.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 7, 2019 18:43:46 GMT
2. Dorian is Indian, not Persian. Dorian is Tevinter. His voice actor is Indian but that doesn't mean that Dorian is.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2019 18:58:59 GMT
2. Dorian is Indian, not Persian. Dorian is Tevinter. His voice actor is Indian but that doesn't mean that Dorian is. thank you!
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Post by phoray on Aug 7, 2019 19:32:07 GMT
I read the article just fine. It's absolutely written by a person who is bending events to fit the bone they want to pick.
This implies the writers fucked up because they were insensitive to what an aggressee in the world had been through. Even though Author admits in the same paragraph that the Devs have said, "oops, that should have been implemented differently, it was lost in the million details that is creating such a massive game over 100 departments and outsourcing art companies." But no, they did it because White Dude Bros going to White Dude Bro. Like, of all the things Author could have used to better effect to support the narrative Author was creating with their article, Author picked this one?
Author then immediately ties this to their own personal history of problems of trying to recapture their own culture as someone of African Descent but not only those of African Descent have this problem. It is also forgetting entirely that this is THEDAS and not the real world. And that the Devs have officially stated that the elves were more based on the Romani people than the African people. Not to mention that the Devs have a Word limit and they can't give 20% of the word budget to elven Inquisitors because it means more to them that this was hidden. Well, as the human inquisitor I was playing when I played that DLC, I was pretty disgusted with my own species. I also regret that I couldn't go into a giant, "you are all species-ist assholes!" rant. Have I been wronged?
Bioware makes games that are super responsive and interactive but the level of immersiveness she wants is not going to come from a Bioware game. I don't know what game the author is looking for , but she can't lambast Bioware for not making a video game completely about what it is to be an Dalish Inquisitor when you can be Human, Dwarven, and Kosith in a world where they know most people play humans. It's a Video Game and there are limitations and I'm not going to declare the Developers and Writers to be insensitive jerks who don't understand the downtrodden because my specific microchism of unique snowflake wasn't catered to directly to the amount I specifically want.
I'm not great at using the term irony correctly, but considering Author can buy a video game and blog about it already makes Author in a better place than a LOT of people so the term may apply.
Edited to reduce and add politically correct stuff, like using gender neutral nouns. I'm sure I will have ruffled feathers regardless, but I disliked being told my reading comprehension was low.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2019 19:38:03 GMT
I read the article just fine. It's absolutely written by a person who is bending events to fit the bone they want to pick. This implies the writers fucked up because they were insensitive to what an aggressee in the world had been through. Even though Author admits in the same paragraph that the Devs have said, "oops, that should have been implemented differently, it was lost in the million details that is creating such a massive game over 100 departments and outsourcing art companies." But no, they did it because White Dude Bros going to White Dude Bro. Like, of all the things Author could have used to better effect to support the narrative Author was creating with their article, Author picked this one? Author then immediately ties this to their own personal history of problems of trying to recapture their own culture as someone of African Descent. as if only this group of people in the real world are the only ones to have this problem. And forgetting entirely that this is THEDAS and not the real world. And that the Devs have officially stated that the elves were more based on the Romani people than the African people. Not to mention that the Devs have a Word limit and they can't give 20% of the word budget to elven Inquisitors because it means more to them that this was hidden. Well, as the human inquisitor I was playing when I played that DLC, I was pretty disgusted with my own species. I also regret that I couldn't go into a giant, "you are all species-ist assholes!" rant. Have I been wronged? Bioware makes games that are super responsive and interactive but the level of immersiveness she wants is not going to come from a Bioware game. I don't know what game the author is looking for looking for, but she can't lambast Bioware for not making a video game completely about what it is to be an Dalish Inquisitor when you can be Human, Dwarven, and Kosith in a world where they know most people play humans. It's a Video Game and there are limitations and I'm not going to declare the Developers and Writers to be insensitive jerks who don't understand the downtrodden because my specific microchism of unique snowflake wasn't catered to directly to the amount I specifically want. I'm not great at using the term irony correctly, but considering she can buy a video game and blog about it already makes her in a better place than a LOT of people so the term may apply. not to mention they did give us the time to consider the implications. Honestly the Ameridan convo is among my favorite sequences in all DA.
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Post by phoray on Aug 7, 2019 19:43:36 GMT
Not to mention they did give us the time to consider the implications. Honestly the Ameridan convo is among my favorite sequences in all DA. I've only played the DLC once, but I remember it being a quiet profound conversation with a lot of admittedly disappointing truths. And I kinda remember talking to the archelogist afterwards and declaring that this truth would be declared publicly and loudly. It will, in the end, probably have as much affect on the world of Thedas as the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest with the Priest History Dude. Some people will believe, others wont, and the world moves on regardless.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 20:07:14 GMT
2. Dorian is Indian, not Persian. Dorian is Tevinter. His voice actor is Indian but that doesn't mean that Dorian is. He is Indian coded. He was designed to look like an Indian man. Multiple devs have already stated this. If you put his face in say, Mass Effect or any other game that takes place in our world, he would just be Indian. "Dorian is Persian/Italian/Greek/White" = Completely fine "Vivienne is black" = Yeah, she is "Dorian is Indian" = Now, wait a minute, that is not true, racial or any other type of coding in fictional settings suddenly does not exist
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Post by colfoley on Aug 7, 2019 20:11:31 GMT
Dorian is Tevinter. His voice actor is Indian but that doesn't mean that Dorian is. He is Indian coded. He was designed to look like an Indian man. Multiple devs have already stated this. If you put his face in say, Mass Effect or any other game that takes place in our world, he would just be Indian. "Dorian is Persian/Italian/Greek/White" = Completely fine "Vivienne is black" = Yeah, she is "Dorian is Indian" = Now, wait a minute, that is not true, racial or any other type of coding in fictional settings suddenly does not exist it dosen't though. Viv may be black...colored...but she's Orlesian (Antivan?) Dorian isn't Indian...he's Tevinter. Alistair isn't 'white' hes Ferelden.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2019 20:33:58 GMT
He is Indian coded. He was designed to look like an Indian man. Multiple devs have already stated this. If you put his face in say, Mass Effect or any other game that takes place in our world, he would just be Indian. "Dorian is Persian/Italian/Greek/White" = Completely fine "Vivienne is black" = Yeah, she is "Dorian is Indian" = Now, wait a minute, that is not true, racial or any other type of coding in fictional settings suddenly does not exist it dosen't though. Viv may be black...colored...but she's Orlesian (Antivan?) Dorian isn't Indian...he's Tevinter. Alistair isn't 'white' hes Ferelden. Vivienne is Rivaini.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 7, 2019 20:39:27 GMT
He is Indian coded. He was designed to look like an Indian man. Multiple devs have already stated this. If you put his face in say, Mass Effect or any other game that takes place in our world, he would just be Indian. "Dorian is Persian/Italian/Greek/White" = Completely fine "Vivienne is black" = Yeah, she is "Dorian is Indian" = Now, wait a minute, that is not true, racial or any other type of coding in fictional settings suddenly does not exist it dosen't though. Viv may be black...colored...but she's Orlesian (Antivan?) Dorian isn't Indian...he's Tevinter. Alistair isn't 'white' hes Ferelden. Coding is something on meta-level, not in-universe level tho. Dorian is more a mashup of Indian and Roman/Byzantine influences, but yeah, that's where inspiration for the character has flown from.
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