inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 13, 2019 0:32:15 GMT
It is ridiculous to be concerned about "real world issues" seeping into Dragon Age. They are already there, and always have been. The setting and plot have always been informed by real world issues, the writers aren't subtle about it at all. Couldn't the same be said for any fictional setting? Kinda hard to have a believable setting without touching upon real-world issues somehow. All fictional settings do is give them a different angle, a new spin or a new coat of paint. With a few original tid-bits here or there. Aliens, humans, elves, energy beings---most of them are easily connected to rl situations simply on account of how 'human' they act by default. Personality, culture, emotions, etc. Pseudo-humans, if you will. The closest we ever got to getting something "completely original" in that department is when we focus on a species that doesn't even begin to think/act like humans. Usually in the form of hive-minds or those who lack sense of self. But these are almost always enemies or the big bad of a story. And why wouldn't they be? There's nothing pseudo-human about them so there is little to no way to make them compelling unless it is to show how monstrous they are. There are a few exceptions, i'm sure. But point is most fictional settings have an underlying "human" element to them. And as such parallels to real life situations are a given. Well, yes, to a degree it's unavoidable, but BioWare goes further, drawing deliberate inspiration from, and making reference to real world places/cultures organizations, events, and modern issues. Ser Alrik's 'tranquil solution' in DA2 is a big one I can think of off the top of my head. Back on OG BSN there were a LOT of complaints, mostly from people who tended to side with the Templars, about the obvious reference to Nazism, and the implications of drawing that connection between Nazis and the Templars. This is not a criticism, I think it's perfectly fine, desirable even, to use fantasy as a lens through which to explore real world issues. I just wish BioWare would a) be more honest about it and pick an actual side on certain issues and stand up for it, instead of repeatedly giving players the opportunity and motivation to commit genocide, and throwing their hands up and pretending like they don't know what the right choice is.
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,899 Likes: 24,172
inherit
214
0
Apr 19, 2024 10:47:34 GMT
24,172
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,899
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Aug 13, 2019 1:04:30 GMT
I just wish BioWare would a) be more honest about it and b.) pick an actual side on certain issues and stand up for it Why would you want the devs to pick a side in an rpg where there are multiple sides to take? I most definitely do NOT want the game to tell me what I should be doing, or when, or how, or why.
|
|
revelationeffect
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 116 Likes: 264
inherit
4290
0
264
revelationeffect
116
March 2017
revelationeffect
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by revelationeffect on Aug 13, 2019 2:38:11 GMT
I mean, Bioware has long had a strong tendency to have some choices be more ethical/moral than others, if not most. While they've made forays into more ambiguous morality in a few games, usually it ends up taking the form of kind of pushing things to a logical extreme to try and justify what would almost always be unconscionable actions. The Templars really aren't any exception to this, with the logical extreme being the mages being actually potentially dangerous, but it does sometimes feel like they try and whitewash the Templars to make things seem a bit more ambiguous than it reasonably is. I don't really think it's telling the player what to do to acknowledge that the Templars as they stand are really toxic and enable abusive behavior and the intensely authoritarian outlook that extremists like Alrik take to its logical conclusion. If anything I'd prefer they worked harder at making legitimately ambiguous decisions and scenarios instead of just superficially complicating the basic good/evil binary they've leaned on for decades and acting like it's a true grey area.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Aug 13, 2019 13:29:54 GMT
DA4 doesn't need the insanity of "But this *implies* something offensive" and "only a writer who is the same race/gender as the character can do it right" meddling in its writing.
Keep the SJW garbage to a minimum.
|
|
linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
inherit
Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
0
4,063
linksocarina
Teaching Mode Activated
3,179
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
|
Post by linksocarina on Aug 13, 2019 14:06:17 GMT
I mean, Bioware has long had a strong tendency to have some choices be more ethical/moral than others, if not most. While they've made forays into more ambiguous morality in a few games, usually it ends up taking the form of kind of pushing things to a logical extreme to try and justify what would almost always be unconscionable actions. The Templars really aren't any exception to this, with the logical extreme being the mages being actually potentially dangerous, but it does sometimes feel like they try and whitewash the Templars to make things seem a bit more ambiguous than it reasonably is. I don't really think it's telling the player what to do to acknowledge that the Templars as they stand are really toxic and enable abusive behavior and the intensely authoritarian outlook that extremists like Alrik take to its logical conclusion. If anything I'd prefer they worked harder at making legitimately ambiguous decisions and scenarios instead of just superficially complicating the basic good/evil binary they've leaned on for decades and acting like it's a true grey area. soubd like Dragon Age 2 in a nutshell, though I'd argue a decent amount of nuance was introduced in the game, and frankly characters like Anders complicated it further.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 13, 2019 15:53:03 GMT
I just wish BioWare would a) be more honest about it and b.) pick an actual side on certain issues and stand up for it Why would you want the devs to pick a side in an rpg where there are multiple sides to take? I most definitely do NOT want the game to tell me what I should be doing, or when, or how, or why. Because saying that there is ever any kind of hypothetical situation where genocide might potentially be okay is both irresponsible and immoral. Not only do I not think the games should allow players to feel justified in committing genocidal acts, I don't think such acts should even be an option. And why shouldn't I ask for it? There are already hard lines that BioWare and other game developers do not cross, why is racially-motivated violence not one of them?
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Aug 13, 2019 16:52:24 GMT
I mean, Bioware has long had a strong tendency to have some choices be more ethical/moral than others, if not most. I felt like there wasn't much of that in DAI. In most choices, there was no right and wrong. Both options presented are understandable.
|
|
inherit
1363
0
Dec 31, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
1,233
garrusfan1
1,826
Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
garrusfan1
|
Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 13, 2019 18:05:17 GMT
See this is when it gets ridiculous. First of all bioware is as woke as they can be. And yet people are complaining about it. Elves being discriminated against is done ALOT in other media. Look I am a progressive but people need to pick their fights. Complaining about companies and people that go too far and are actively racist is one thing and they should be called on it. But bioware is incredibly PC in their games. The only real exception to this was that elf in DA2 that looked and seemed like a pretty elven women then speaks with a deep male voice and everyone has a "WTF" moment and the guy with her is embaressed. That is the only time I can remember them doing something that could reasonably be described as offensive to a minority community. It's a video game company people stop picking fights with everyone and everything when it is just ridiculous. There is enough real stuff to get mad at. "I can be offended when other people aren't, but other people can't be offended if I'm not." No it's me asking why people pick pointless fights over tiny little things. Bioware not being one hundred percent authentic and realistic when dealing with some issues isn't worth complaining about. If the people who picked these fights would put half as much energy into something like human rights abuses in the real world or the increasing rise in income inequality that if not stopped soon will lead to ruin. No instead people do this.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Aug 13, 2019 19:39:01 GMT
Why would you want the devs to pick a side in an rpg where there are multiple sides to take? I most definitely do NOT want the game to tell me what I should be doing, or when, or how, or why. Because saying that there is ever any kind of hypothetical situation where genocide might potentially be okay is both irresponsible and immoral. Not only do I not think the games should allow players to feel justified in committing genocidal acts, I don't think such acts should even be an option. And why shouldn't I ask for it? There are already hard lines that BioWare and other game developers do not cross, why is racially-motivated violence not one of them? Well you're too late then, these kind of situations have always been a part of DA. Though its less racially motivated than in the irl inspirations. Mages and Elves are analogous to various irl marginalized groups, but the specifics are quite different and BioWare has generally allowed players to be quite harsh in their approach towards both.
|
|
SwobyJ
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 2,070 Likes: 2,092
inherit
2698
0
Apr 18, 2024 17:56:32 GMT
2,092
SwobyJ
2,070
January 2017
swobyj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by SwobyJ on Aug 14, 2019 5:10:53 GMT
I think it was one of the worse (not worst) written parts of the game and I'm gay. I think it had interesting and valuable aspects, but I wouldn't call it a particularly well written sequence, nor gay-themed cotent. I liked several other personal quests more than it. I do think it was one of the better gay-exclusive material from Bioware, but I actually don't think they're the best media with this (among the best gaming media, but not media). I've been more compelled by media written by straight people about gay topics than at least some media written by gay people. For example, some anime is downright heartmelting/breaking. Speaking as a fellow GHEY, it's easy to be the 'best' when you're the only one competing, yet even so I find BioWare's depiction of gay characters and issues to be woefully narrow, lazy and hamfisted. The fact that it was a personal story for David Gaider is irrelevant. Journal on your own time. I'm not obligated to like everything that other gay men produce. In fact, all the other gay guys I know were offended. I only ever see straight people praising it, and I reckon it's because the game bends over backwards to drum up sympathy for Dorian's garbage father. You're incendiary with that. But at least a part of me thinks you're correct. That said, I mostly like Dorian. He's on the upper tier of middling party member DAI characters for me, and that's pretty good. If it wasn't for my lore interests with Solas and Cole, and romance choice with Iron Bull, he'd be in my party most of the time. I just think he was lacking in areas, but I think what I got from him was still better than what I got from Vivienne (felt like her relevance was cut at some point) and Blackwall (who? oh that guy).
|
|
inherit
1439
0
Apr 17, 2024 10:33:46 GMT
12,447
witchcocktor
4,032
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by witchcocktor on Aug 14, 2019 7:45:03 GMT
Yeah I can't really say that Gaider being gay helped Dorian appeal to me (as a gay man) any better, or that I think he was somehow better written than for instance Sera, whom I vibed with much better, MUUCH better. In the end he is still the stuck-up, flamboyant, narcissistic flamboyant sassy gay bff, who is also mildly alcoholic, a fashion police, has commitment issues and whose daddy doesn't want him being out and proud. Did we fly back to the early 2000s sitcoms or something? Thanks but no thanks. But he seemed to have worked for straight people who just love his sassiness and his tragic backstory.
I do think Dorian is a good character, just not a good gay character, or rather a gay character that appeals to me. Just don't enjoy the unfortunate stereotypes, and I don't think Gaider's sexuality really did much to make that character appeal to me. But I think Gaider's sexuality and passion did help Dorian become such a big, important character in the ongoing story, which I appreciate. But overall I think Bioware, the few gay men they've written, have all been pretty bad lmao, so Dorian is still the best from the slim pickings we have, but that's just it, slim pickings.
In regards to the topic at hand, I do thinks it's important for writers to do reserach, but they also need to have their own vision and artistic interpretation.
|
|
helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 1,853 Likes: 2,478
inherit
867
0
Apr 13, 2024 10:39:49 GMT
2,478
helios969
Kamisama
1,853
August 2016
helios969
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
helios969
No Clue
Who Cares
|
Post by helios969 on Aug 14, 2019 8:39:26 GMT
Dorian is a good character, just not a good gay character I hate that you feel the need to make that distinction...and hate in general that people in society need to qualify such statements: my black friend, my gay friend...no, they're just friends. Dorian was a good character...and that's where the statement should end. I don't even really get "not a good gay character" - are we not all just people? End rant.
|
|
inherit
1439
0
Apr 17, 2024 10:33:46 GMT
12,447
witchcocktor
4,032
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by witchcocktor on Aug 14, 2019 13:27:16 GMT
Dorian is a good character, just not a good gay character I hate that you feel the need to make that distinction...and hate in general that people in society need to qualify such statements: my black friend, my gay friend...no, they're just friends. Dorian was a good character...and that's where the statement should end. I don't even really get "not a good gay character" - are we not all just people? End rant. I'm gay, and how media writes gay characters and how they are perceived affects me indirectly. He is a character that has a strong personality, a strong concept and at least a thought out story. But there are a lot of things in him that make him an unfortunate stereotype, which I do not enjoy. And that is fine. I don't need all this '' WE ARE ALL JUST PEOPLE '' nonsense honestly, when it's absolutely not the agenda media wants to tell, or what real life practices. It's very patronizing.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Aug 14, 2019 21:35:50 GMT
Why would you want the devs to pick a side in an rpg where there are multiple sides to take? I most definitely do NOT want the game to tell me what I should be doing, or when, or how, or why. Because saying that there is ever any kind of hypothetical situation where genocide might potentially be okay is both irresponsible and immoral. Not only do I not think the games should allow players to feel justified in committing genocidal acts, I don't think such acts should even be an option. And why shouldn't I ask for it? There are already hard lines that BioWare and other game developers do not cross, why is racially-motivated violence not one of them? Are you saying we should only be able to play moral characters then ? Why do we need to feel justified or believe an action is morally good to do it in a videogame ?
|
|
helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 1,853 Likes: 2,478
inherit
867
0
Apr 13, 2024 10:39:49 GMT
2,478
helios969
Kamisama
1,853
August 2016
helios969
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
helios969
No Clue
Who Cares
|
Post by helios969 on Aug 14, 2019 21:46:00 GMT
I don't need all this '' WE ARE ALL JUST PEOPLE '' nonsense honestly, when it's absolutely not the agenda media wants to tell, or what real life practices. It's very patronizing. Huh, interesting, that attitude seems to run counter to the dozens of people of "alternative" lifestyles I've know throughout my life that just want to be recognized and respected as a person. But I guess everyone has their own perspective.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Aug 14, 2019 22:43:17 GMT
Yeah I can't really say that Gaider being gay helped Dorian appeal to me (as a gay man) any better, or that I think he was somehow better written than for instance Sera, whom I vibed with much better, MUUCH better. In the end he is still the stuck-up, flamboyant, narcissistic flamboyant sassy gay bff, who is also mildly alcoholic, a fashion police, has commitment issues and whose daddy doesn't want him being out and proud. Did we fly back to the early 2000s sitcoms or something? Thanks but no thanks. But he seemed to have worked for straight people who just love his sassiness and his tragic backstory. But... is the sass and flamboyance, in your opinion, something that was supposed to basically code his gayness? Because I thought it was fairly well established that it's more a matter of society Dorian was raised in and notably a trait he shares (to varying degree) with both Solas and Vivienne, who use sass and outwardly appearance as a shield against the world (so does Sera in fact).
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 14, 2019 22:53:47 GMT
Because saying that there is ever any kind of hypothetical situation where genocide might potentially be okay is both irresponsible and immoral. Not only do I not think the games should allow players to feel justified in committing genocidal acts, I don't think such acts should even be an option. And why shouldn't I ask for it? There are already hard lines that BioWare and other game developers do not cross, why is racially-motivated violence not one of them? Are you saying we should only be able to play moral characters then ? Why do we need to feel justified or believe an action is morally good to do it in a videogame ? I don't care what you believe. I care about what BioWare's content implies, namely that there are situations where genocide might be okay. Anyone making that sort of statement, especially in the current political climate, is an irresponsible and immoral person. You say you want to play a "complete monster", well what does that even mean to you? There are already a bunch of things that BioWare will not let you do. Sexual violence is off the table, for instance. Child murder too. Should they be allowed, or are you happy that they aren't? Where do you draw the line, and why?
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Aug 14, 2019 23:09:34 GMT
Are you saying we should only be able to play moral characters then ? Why do we need to feel justified or believe an action is morally good to do it in a videogame ? I don't care what you believe. I care about what BioWare's content implies, namely that there are situations where genocide might be okay. Anyone making that sort of statement, especially in the current political climate, is an irresponsible and immoral person. You say you want to play a "complete monster", well what does that even mean to you? There are already a bunch of things that BioWare will not let you do. Sexual violence is off the table, for instance. Child murder too. Should they be allowed, or are you happy that they aren't? Where do you draw the line, and why? Let's be a little more fair here - things got really intense on political front in last 2-3 years. Before that matters like 'there are situations where some mass killing may be justified' were the sort of scenarios and themes one could explore in fiction that didn't yet feel a bit too... relevant to current climate. Kinda like seeing WTC towers destroyed in fiction prior to 9/11 - it was pretty innocuous before, but not so much afterwards. So it'd be interesting to see how Bioware will tackle some issues or themes in the future, that's true - however, let's not throw things around like 'irresponsible and immoral' before we see how they adjust and address certain things in their creative works, depending on the message they want to send.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Aug 14, 2019 23:10:03 GMT
So... what would have been the better route to take with Dorian's storyline? Something not related to his sexuality at all? Maybe merge his father with Alexius and have Dorian join the Inquisition to stop his father, who's become embroiled with the Venatori?
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Aug 14, 2019 23:18:28 GMT
So... what would have been the better route to take with Dorian's storyline? Something not related to his sexuality at all? Maybe merge his father with Alexius and have Dorian join the Inquisition to stop his father, who's become embroiled with the Venatori? I don't think that's the issue, it just seems that - naturally - people have different opinions and feelings about characters, which is perfectly fine. As for Dorian... the Tevinter magister who's so obsessed with his lineage that he disregards his child's life choices is a storyline that would work regardless of Dorian's sexuality. Dorian is gay, true, but whether he was or not, he clearly has issues with Tevinter establishment that put him on a path of rebellion and conflict with his family. It's just that he also happens to be gay which further packs an emotional punch there, at least IMO.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Aug 15, 2019 1:16:40 GMT
Are you saying we should only be able to play moral characters then ? Why do we need to feel justified or believe an action is morally good to do it in a videogame ? I don't care what you believe. I care about what BioWare's content implies, namely that there are situations where genocide might be okay. Anyone making that sort of statement, especially in the current political climate, is an irresponsible and immoral person. You say you want to play a "complete monster", well what does that even mean to you? There are already a bunch of things that BioWare will not let you do. Sexual violence is off the table, for instance. Child murder too. Should they be allowed, or are you happy that they aren't? Where do you draw the line, and why? It doesn't need to imply that any immoral choices are remotely okay to let you do them. It's actually better imo if they clearly state that evil choices are evil, because if the game acts like immoral actions might be justifiable that changes a character doing them from clearly evil to morally ambiguous, which is annoying if you intended to be a flat out bad person. By 'complete monster' I mean like the TvTrope, a character devoid of altruistic qualities, who has a complete disregard for others and does evil because it amuses them, etc. Obviously a videogame literally (as in like legally and stuff) cannot be allowed direct onscreen child murder, nor any form of sexual assault aside just be really creepy or sometimes attempts. Torture is also super iffy. Which is why I never brought up wanting to do any of that, cause I don't, and it literally couldn't be included in a released game anyway. But I cited examples from the series itself, since that's stuff the franchise has already included. Like you could be a character who is fine with slavery, demon summoning, mind-control, sacrificing other sentient beings, indiscriminate murder, etc, and have the game and most NPCs call them out on their unjustifiably immoral behavior. And you could still be the PC because the antagonist plans wrecking the entire world and reality itself, and the companions could be begrudgingly cooperating anyway because -whatever the special reason is for whoever you are to be the protagonist-
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 15, 2019 2:27:45 GMT
So... what would have been the better route to take with Dorian's storyline? Something not related to his sexuality at all? Maybe merge his father with Alexius and have Dorian join the Inquisition to stop his father, who's become embroiled with the Venatori? I would prefer something that was not at all related to his sexuality, yes. I don't have any specific suggestions, but ideally every party member would have a personal connection to the main story. A big thing that bugged me about DAI is it felt like most of them were extraneous. This ties back into my desire for "main plot" to take up much more of the game than it did in DAI, and for side quests and their resolutions to be more connected to, and have more impact on the main plot.
|
|
inherit
1439
0
Apr 17, 2024 10:33:46 GMT
12,447
witchcocktor
4,032
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by witchcocktor on Aug 15, 2019 2:31:43 GMT
Yeah I can't really say that Gaider being gay helped Dorian appeal to me (as a gay man) any better, or that I think he was somehow better written than for instance Sera, whom I vibed with much better, MUUCH better. In the end he is still the stuck-up, flamboyant, narcissistic flamboyant sassy gay bff, who is also mildly alcoholic, a fashion police, has commitment issues and whose daddy doesn't want him being out and proud. Did we fly back to the early 2000s sitcoms or something? Thanks but no thanks. But he seemed to have worked for straight people who just love his sassiness and his tragic backstory. But... is the sass and flamboyance, in your opinion, something that was supposed to basically code his gayness? Because I thought it was fairly well established that it's more a matter of society Dorian was raised in and notably a trait he shares (to varying degree) with both Solas and Vivienne, who use sass and outwardly appearance as a shield against the world (so does Sera in fact). No, but I do think it's extremely convenient for the only gay man in the game, and the first gay man in all of Dragon Age to be someone like Dorian. I wouldn't put it past me that the writers thought that hey, he is already so flaming, let's make him gay to boot, because that's fitting and obviously people will think he's gay so 1 + 1 = 2! Obviously I have no proof of this and there might be real sources that conflict with my made up scenario, but I mean really, there are a lot of convenient stereotypical gay things about Dorian all while being gay, regardless of whether these things are there because he is Dorian or because he is gay. They still exist nonetheless. I'm just happy Dorian is done and dealt with, he made his point and Dragon Age 4 can actually do something a bit more groundbreaking. Well, groundbreaking FOR ME, Dorian probably was a huge deal for a lot of people.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Aug 15, 2019 8:03:51 GMT
So... what would have been the better route to take with Dorian's storyline? Something not related to his sexuality at all? Maybe merge his father with Alexius and have Dorian join the Inquisition to stop his father, who's become embroiled with the Venatori? I would prefer something that was not at all related to his sexuality, yes. I don't have any specific suggestions, but ideally every party member would have a personal connection to the main story. A big thing that bugged me about DAI is it felt like most of them were extraneous. This ties back into my desire for "main plot" to take up much more of the game than it did in DAI, and for side quests and their resolutions to be more connected to, and have more impact on the main plot. But... how is Dorian not connected to the main story? He's one of the most tied there is, especially given that he's basically setting up the whole 'we're going to Tevinter in the next game' thing. So he carries important elements of the plot and exposes us more to people of Tevinter, in similar way Sten or Iron Bull expose us to the Qunari and so on. Also - being extraneous (or seemingly untied) sometimes stems from the fact that many companions are optional. Tying them in more obvious ways means they'd have to be either permanent companions or we'd have less choices related to them (we do have some characters more important than others, but adding more on top of them immediately makes steering the plot more difficult). However, I'm unsure in what way the 'main plot' should 'take up much of the game'? I get complaints about DAI's side quests, even if I don't agree with a lot of them, but even many of seemingly irrelevant side-quests are still tied to the story (plus, if we want to have some leeway with the way we shape each character's story, just like companions, it can't all be directly tied). This is where our personal preferences will likely clash, because I like when things in the game aren't immediately or obviously tied to the main plot. It makes the world feel more expansive and lived-in than it is - as in: not just events of the main story that happen in it (never mind that a lot of things, like in case of Dorian, are either set ups for later or give us relevant information).
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Aug 15, 2019 8:22:03 GMT
But... is the sass and flamboyance, in your opinion, something that was supposed to basically code his gayness? Because I thought it was fairly well established that it's more a matter of society Dorian was raised in and notably a trait he shares (to varying degree) with both Solas and Vivienne, who use sass and outwardly appearance as a shield against the world (so does Sera in fact). No, but I do think it's extremely convenient for the only gay man in the game, and the first gay man in all of Dragon Age to be someone like Dorian. I wouldn't put it past me that the writers thought that hey, he is already so flaming, let's make him gay to boot, because that's fitting and obviously people will think he's gay so 1 + 1 = 2! Obviously I have no proof of this and there might be real sources that conflict with my made up scenario, but I mean really, there are a lot of convenient stereotypical gay things about Dorian all while being gay, regardless of whether these things are there because he is Dorian or because he is gay. They still exist nonetheless. I'm just happy Dorian is done and dealt with, he made his point and Dragon Age 4 can actually do something a bit more groundbreaking. Well, groundbreaking FOR ME, Dorian probably was a huge deal for a lot of people. A fair point - I can't help but to like Dorian, but if he doesn't click with you that way then that's how it is. However... Dorian isn't done. It's fairly apparent that he'll show up in DA4, with the way they've set him up in the main game an then Trespasser. It'll be interesting to see how his character will be written there and in what direction he'll evolve, though I can't see how he could lose his flaming ways, since a lot of people seem to like that in Dorian, regardless whether he was gay or not, I think.
|
|