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Post by burningcherry on Oct 20, 2019 15:07:52 GMT
I wanted a galaxy free to find its own path.. And the only path to that forces Shepard to become a worse minster than Saren. What's so wrong with Destroy?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 15:43:53 GMT
I wanted a galaxy free to find its own path.. And the only path to that forces Shepard to become a worse minster than Saren. What's so wrong with Destroy? 1) It definitely turns on EDI, an ally.
2) Depending on how the player played the game, it turns on an entire group of allies, the geth.
3) It destroys the only remaining record of every civilization to rise after Leviathan.
4) It leaves the world decimated by the war.
Control does none of these things.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 20, 2019 16:17:46 GMT
What's so wrong with Destroy? 1) It definitely turns on EDI, an ally.
2) Depending on how the player played the game, it turns on an entire group of allies, the geth.
3) It destroys the only remaining record of every civilization to rise after Leviathan.
4) It leaves the world decimated by the war.
Control does none of these things.
Which is why only my Renegades choose that solution.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 20, 2019 16:20:16 GMT
It definitely turns on EDI, an ally. So what? Why is destroying a thing a bad thing when destroying the reapers? The geth knew the risks. Since I let the quarians wipe them out, it's of no concern to me. Does it? In ME4, Shepard could find all the information about the civilizations that the reapers harvested when in darkspace. Are sure about that? With high ems, the galaxy suffers the same amount of damage. The only difference is the time it takes to rebuild. What about low ems control? Earth is messed up, as seen by big ben being destroyed. Only difference is the time it takes to rebuild
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 16:23:15 GMT
It definitely turns on EDI, an ally. So what? Why is destroying a thing a bad thing when destroying the reapers? The geth knew the risks. Since I let the quarians wipe them out, it's of no concern to me. Does it? In ME4, Shepard could find all the information about the civilizations that the reapers harvested when in darkspace. Are sure about that? With high ems, the galaxy suffers the same amount of damage. The only difference is the time it takes to rebuild. What about low ems control? Take the edibot on the beam run, Harbinger destroys the platform. With low ems control, Earth is messed up, as seen by big ben being destroyed. Only difference is the time it takes to rebuild You can do what you like... you end the game on your own terms.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 20, 2019 16:24:09 GMT
False. I wanted a galaxy free of the Reapers. Not ruled by robo-Shepard. Not forced assimilation with them. I wanted a galaxy free to find its own path.. And the only path to that forces Shepard to become a worse minster than Saren. I found this an absolutely disgusting way to end a five year trilogy and found Bioware bizarrely tone-deaf in not seeing such a reaction far in advance. Unlike you, I can't simply ignore details in the story to put a better spin on things. The Paragon control ending does not indicate that "robo-Shepard" rules the galaxy or even that he wants to rule the galaxy. He controls the Reapers only and wants to save the many. The first thing he does is have them repair the damage done by the war. What he does after that is up to the player. If the player decides that "the next story" about The Shepard is that he shut down or destroyed the Reapers and "retired" someplace tropical... the ending absolutely allows for such an interpretation. If the player wants to give the Reapers themselves free will (presumeably after obtaining assurances from them personally that they don't want to fight organics), the player can absolutely head canon that it because there is nothing in the endings or slides that says he could not have done that. He is given control over the Reapers to do with them as he sees fit. He is not given control over organics or anything except the Reapers. The organics and other synthetics in the galaxy (like EDI and the geth) retain their free will.
Furthermore, the Shepard you play as from the beginning of ME2 may not be Shepard in that, as he says, he may just be a "high-tech VI that thinks he's Commander Shepard.
Unlike you, I am not about to throw unnecessary obstacles in my own path that you claim prevent you from enjoying a game that I really do enjoy playing. Don't pity me... I pity you. I'm already ending this game on "my own terms." You're also ending it on "your own terms"... holding a grudge against the devs for all these years... and then still complaining even after using a mod. What Bioware did re ME3's endings is 7 years in the past... and they also every right to end their Trilogy on their own terms.
False. EDI makes it clear that while Shepard has been cybernetically modified, Shepard's mind remains organic. As for the rest of your nonsense, I can see it was a mistake to unblock you.
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Post by burningcherry on Oct 20, 2019 16:24:34 GMT
What's so wrong with Destroy? 1) It definitely turns on EDI, an ally. 2) Depending on how the player played the game, it turns on an entire group of allies, the geth. 3) It destroys the only remaining record of every civilization to rise after Leviathan. 4) It leaves the world decimated by the war. Control does none of these things.
So the problem is that you can't destroy them with little collateral damage?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 16:26:52 GMT
The Paragon control ending does not indicate that "robo-Shepard" rules the galaxy or even that he wants to rule the galaxy. He controls the Reapers only and wants to save the many. The first thing he does is have them repair the damage done by the war. What he does after that is up to the player. If the player decides that "the next story" about The Shepard is that he shut down or destroyed the Reapers and "retired" someplace tropical... the ending absolutely allows for such an interpretation. If the player wants to give the Reapers themselves free will (presumeably after obtaining assurances from them personally that they don't want to fight organics), the player can absolutely head canon that it because there is nothing in the endings or slides that says he could not have done that. He is given control over the Reapers to do with them as he sees fit. He is not given control over organics or anything except the Reapers. The organics and other synthetics in the galaxy (like EDI and the geth) retain their free will.
Furthermore, the Shepard you play as from the beginning of ME2 may not be Shepard in that, as he says, he may just be a "high-tech VI that thinks he's Commander Shepard.
Unlike you, I am not about to throw unnecessary obstacles in my own path that you claim prevent you from enjoying a game that I really do enjoy playing. Don't pity me... I pity you. I'm already ending this game on "my own terms." You're also ending it on "your own terms"... holding a grudge against the devs for all these years... and then still complaining even after using a mod. What Bioware did re ME3's endings is 7 years in the past... and they also every right to end their Trilogy on their own terms.
False. EDI makes it clear that while Shepard has been cybernetically modified, Shepard's mind remains organic. As for the rest of your nonsense, I can see it was a mistake to unblock you. Then reblock me.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 20, 2019 16:27:52 GMT
I wanted a galaxy free to find its own path.. And the only path to that forces Shepard to become a worse minster than Saren. What's so wrong with Destroy? Destroy murders EDI, the geth (if alive) and all other synthetic life everywhere. And given the Catalyst's warning that "even you are partly synthetic", the implication is also that anyone with cybernetic implants such as prosthetic limbs, organs, heck maybe even biotic amps can die. So to achieve the Destroy ending, you are forced to commit mass murder, even genocide on a level greater than Saren on his best day.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 20, 2019 16:28:27 GMT
1) It definitely turns on EDI, an ally. 2) Depending on how the player played the game, it turns on an entire group of allies, the geth. 3) It destroys the only remaining record of every civilization to rise after Leviathan. 4) It leaves the world decimated by the war. Control does none of these things.
So the problem is that you can't destroy them with little collateral damage? I wouldn’t call genocide of an entire form of life “little collateral damage”.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 16:29:55 GMT
1) It definitely turns on EDI, an ally. 2) Depending on how the player played the game, it turns on an entire group of allies, the geth. 3) It destroys the only remaining record of every civilization to rise after Leviathan. 4) It leaves the world decimated by the war. Control does none of these things.
So the problem is that you can't destroy them with little collateral damage? I end the game on my own terms... in my preferred way. As of right now with all endings existing and none being the singular canon (i.e. all are canon or possible canon, as you prefer to word it), you can absolutely do the same thing with whatever ending you prefer... ending the game on your own terms. Control can accomplish the same thing as destroy without any collateral damage... The only sacrifice is Shepard sacrificing his own life. The ending slides confirm it.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 20, 2019 16:33:53 GMT
Genocide? What's this genocide that is being posted? Ah, I see. Because my Shepard doesn't choose the green or blue, and get peace between the geth and quarians, my Shepard is now a mass murderer. But it's ok to leave the reapers around for harvesting countless civilizations before this cycle by choosing the blue and green. Ok. I'll stick with destroying the reapers.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 20, 2019 16:41:46 GMT
Because my Shepard doesn't choose the green or blue, and get peace between the geth and quarians, my Shepard is now a mass murderer. Yes.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 20, 2019 16:56:27 GMT
Genocide? What's this genocide that is being posted? Ah, I see. Because my Shepard doesn't choose the green or blue, and get peace between the geth and quarians, my Shepard is now a mass murderer. But it's ok to leave the reapers around for harvesting countless civilizations before this cycle by choosing the blue and green. Ok. I'll stick with destroying the reapers. Yes you are committing genocide against the Geth a sapient life form.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 20, 2019 17:51:46 GMT
So the problem is that you can't destroy them with little collateral damage? I wouldn’t call genocide of an entire form of life “little collateral damage”. Well,it's not a very high percentage of the galactic population. And in world-states where the geth are already destroyed, it's smaller still. Although of course we don't have data on AIs in non-Citadel space.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 20, 2019 17:55:31 GMT
Genocide? What's this genocide that is being posted? Ah, I see. Because my Shepard doesn't choose the green or blue, and get peace between the geth and quarians, my Shepard is now a mass murderer. But it's ok to leave the reapers around for harvesting countless civilizations before this cycle by choosing the blue and green. Ok. I'll stick with destroying the reapers. Yes you are committing genocide against the Geth a sapient life form. Genocide against the Reapers is still genocide too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 19:06:25 GMT
Genocide? What's this genocide that is being posted? Ah, I see. Because my Shepard doesn't choose the green or blue, and get peace between the geth and quarians, my Shepard is now a mass murderer. But it's ok to leave the reapers around for harvesting countless civilizations before this cycle by choosing the blue and green. Ok. I'll stick with destroying the reapers. You are annihilating the slaves for the crimes of their master. The power that the Catalyst held over them to make them harvest is ended with either the green or the blue ending. In the case of Control, the Catalyst disappears and we are shown clearly in both cases that the Reapers stop harvesting altogether. Annihilating them as a species is unnecessary. The mission can be accomplished with annihilating them. If you do consider them to be a sapient species, it's the equivalent of genocide. If you don't consider them to be a sapient species, then you are unnecessarily destroying an archive of more than a billion years of history... which is also now defined as a war crime.
The problem with the destroy ending is NOT that the Reapers can't with stopped without collateral damage... The problem with it is that the Reapers CAN absolutely be stopped without ANY collateral damage (via the control ending). After they are stopped, they can be destroyed or liberated or controlled by a more benevolent master. We are told that Shepard severs any link with his "own kind" and can only "be aware of their presence" (i.e. organics) This absolutely means that The Shepard cannot control the organics, and the organics, therefore, maintain their own free will regardless of what The Shepard does with the Reapers.
The EC slides show us clearly the Reapers stopping their harvest. A little later, they show us the Reapers helping rebuild things. Therefore, it is clear that The Shepard does stop them harvesting. What happens after they finish helping rebuild things is up to the player's own head canon. There is nothing that says that The Shepard becomes corrupt or resumes the harvesting or anything.
It doesn't matter what TIM wanted... TIM died without getting what he wanted. Control Shepard dies resolving the Reaper War for the benefit of "the many."
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Post by Phantom on Oct 20, 2019 19:18:29 GMT
But does it proves IT?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 20:09:36 GMT
Blue light spreads and the Reapers immediately cease fighting, bow and take off into space. Husks stop fighting and run off. The harvest absolutely stops when The Shepard takes control. A later slide shows the Reapers helping to rebuild. No slide shows any restart of the harvest.
It has nothing to do with Indoctrination Theory.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 20, 2019 20:17:52 GMT
Yes you are committing genocide against the Geth a sapient life form. Genocide against the Reapers is still genocide too. True.
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Post by Phantom on Oct 20, 2019 20:21:19 GMT
Blue light spreads and the Reapers immediately cease fighting, bow and take off into space. Husks stop fighting and run off. The harvest absolutely stops when The Shepard takes control. A later slide shows the Reapers helping to rebuild. No slide shows any restart of the harvest.
It has nothing to do with Indoctrination Theory.
regardless how we view IT in general, IT proves to be a good shit stirring for threads like this. Lets face it, we can go in circles about ME3 endings.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 21:25:34 GMT
Blue light spreads and the Reapers immediately cease fighting, bow and take off into space. Husks stop fighting and run off. The harvest absolutely stops when The Shepard takes control. A later slide shows the Reapers helping to rebuild. No slide shows any restart of the harvest.
It has nothing to do with Indoctrination Theory.
regardless how we view IT in general, IT proves to be a good shit stirring for threads like this. Lets face it, we can go in circles about ME3 endings. What stirring? You asked the question. I answered it. Does it prove IT? IMO, it has nothing to do with IT. Is it that you want my personal opinion on IT? It's merely one possible way of interpreting the game...out of many possible ways of interpreting the game. I think Bioware's desire in writing things the way they did was to leave many different ways of interpreting the games open to players.
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Post by Ascend on Oct 20, 2019 22:19:52 GMT
At this point I'd prefer if BioWare leaves everything from the original trilogy untouched. Not everything is perfect, but, I really don't trust them to make it better at this point. There is a higher chance of them making it worse than better. The only thing that I would still think is viable is remastering it graphically, tweaking the gameplay a little bit, and leave everything else untouched. And yes, that includes leaving Shepard untouched.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 20, 2019 22:43:45 GMT
At this point I'd prefer if BioWare leaves everything from the original trilogy untouched. Not everything is perfect, but, I really don't trust them to make it better at this point. There is a higher chance of them making it worse than better. The only thing that I would still think is viable is remastering it graphically, tweaking the gameplay a little bit, and leave everything else untouched. And yes, that includes leaving Shepard untouched. A remastered trilogy could be fun. Maybe in 2022 for the ten year anniversary of ME3. It would also give the fans something to play while waiting for the next new one.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 20, 2019 23:57:48 GMT
I believe a remastered trilogy would sell more copies than MEA.
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