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Post by midnight tea on Aug 19, 2019 21:53:51 GMT
Idk. I wasn’t worried until I saw Patrick is taking a mental health social media break. Like he does every now and then? This is not new - he does take breaks sometimes, as are other folks.
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Post by river82 on Aug 19, 2019 23:27:43 GMT
idk but i feel kinda weird about all the picking and panicking over of peoples' personal or private reasons for switching jobs or taking breaks from social media and so on, they're human beings A few years ago the Holden factories within Australia were deemed no longer viable, they closed and many workers were left out of a job. Sad times for the workers involved and Holden cars in Australia were going to be built overseas. Of interest to customers though was what would happen to the iconic Holden Commodore, a car with a rich history in Australia and beloved in many people's hearts. Don't worry, the corporate suits said, the great German company Opel will build your beloved Commodore for you. Australians all scoffed at this idea, because we value different things in our cars than Europeans, but we thought we'd give them a go. Then the first test model was spotted and it looked very very strange. Of course it looked strange, it was a hatch and not a sedan. Strike number 1. Then other details were released like it had no real wheel drive, strike number 2, and it had a puny 4 cylinder engine with a turbo and no v8 option, which was strike number 3. This car, while called a commodore, was not an actual commodore, it was something completely different with a commodore badge attached. Come release day if people weren't following what was happening with the company, which also included the plight of the Australian workers, they would not have realised they were being sold a Not-Commodore at all, and there would have been no legal recourse for them to vent their ire when they later discovered they were sold Euro-trash. It is very important for consumers to be aware of the products they buy. A you looking for an MMO to get lost in for years and are interested in starting to play Guild Wars 2? Then maybe the recent troubles at Arena Net, their dubious financial situation, and the recent layoffs will interest you? I go to a small company with people I trust when I want a computer built, if the workers changed I would no longer go to that company. My mother goes to a hair dressing salon because of one person, if they left she will no longer go to that place. These people and where they work affect our spending decisions. As de-humanising as that sounds that's just the reality of the situation. Developers are human beings, but they also fit into many other categories, like employees at a company. And their presence or absence while not affecting your purchasing decision for this game may mean more scrutiny is warranted than normal. Will they make the same sort of games or will this be a Bioware game in name only? This is the sort of question that will be affected by the lack of the Doctors, Laidlaw, Knowles, and Gaider.
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Post by Avejajed on Aug 20, 2019 1:16:21 GMT
I just want to be clear I’m all for mental health days and I don’t normally pay attention to who is taking them or who is not,!8 just happened to see that and I was concerned that the bad press was making things difficult for them. That’s all.
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Post by githcheater on Aug 20, 2019 1:26:48 GMT
Nothing to see here ... don't look behind the curtain.
Excluding non-DA fiascos:
Strike 1 - DA2 deficiencies (reused area, parachuting monsters, hackneyed ending etc) Strike 2 - Exodus dumped Strike 3 - The doctors leave Strike 4 - Blood, Sweat and Pixels Strike 5 - Hemorrhaging talent (Flynn, Laidlaw, Gaider, Galinas, Melo etc) Strike 6 - Project Joplin dumped ... and reboot
etc ...
What did I miss?
I do not think there is reason to panic, but certainly there is reason for concern.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 20, 2019 1:40:29 GMT
The only thing of interest for me with fernando leaving is that apparently Dragon Age is at a point in development where it can be done with a minimum of disruption.
I don't see the point in being concerned about the game until we actually know anything about the game. When there's actual information to be had we can all decide whether or not we're interested in it. Until then its just worrying to worry.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 20, 2019 1:44:40 GMT
The only thing of interest for me with fernando leaving is that apparently Dragon Age is at a point in development where it can be done with a minimum of disruption. I don't see the point in being concerned about the game until we actually know anything about the game. When there's actual information to be had we can all decide whether or not we're interested in it. Until then its just worrying to worry. where'd you read that?
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Post by xrayspex73 on Aug 20, 2019 1:45:10 GMT
At this point I would be shocked if Dragon Age 4 even releases (much less is any good). I don't think Bioware is going to survive long enough to develop and ruin Dragon Age with their live-service plans.
Regarding that rumored anonymous leak...
Seems about how I envisioned it being at Biower these days.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 20, 2019 2:01:32 GMT
idk but i feel kinda weird about all the picking and panicking over of peoples' personal or private reasons for switching jobs or taking breaks from social media and so on, they're human beings A few years ago the Holden factories within Australia were deemed no longer viable, they closed and many workers were left out of a job. Sad times for the workers involved and Holden cars in Australia were going to be built overseas. Of interest to customers though was what would happen to the iconic Holden Commodore, a car with a rich history in Australia and beloved in many people's hearts. Don't worry, the corporate suits said, the great German company Opel will build your beloved Commodore for you. Australians all scoffed at this idea, because we value different things in our cars than Europeans, but we thought we'd give them a go. Then the first test model was spotted and it looked very very strange. Of course it looked strange, it was a hatch and not a sedan. Strike number 1. Then other details were released like it had no real wheel drive, strike number 2, and it had a puny 4 cylinder engine with a turbo and no v8 option, which was strike number 3. This car, while called a commodore, was not an actual commodore, it was something completely different with a commodore badge attached. Come release day if people weren't following what was happening with the company, which also included the plight of the Australian workers, they would not have realised they were being sold a Not-Commodore at all, and there would have been no legal recourse for them to vent their ire when they later discovered they were sold Euro-trash. It is very important for consumers to be aware of the products they buy. A you looking for an MMO to get lost in for years and are interested in starting to play Guild Wars 2? Then maybe the recent troubles at Arena Net, their dubious financial situation, and the recent layoffs will interest you? I go to a small company with people I trust when I want a computer built, if the workers changed I would no longer go to that company. My mother goes to a hair dressing salon because of one person, if they left she will no longer go to that place. These people and where they work affect our spending decisions. As de-humanising as that sounds that's just the reality of the situation. Developers are human beings, but they also fit into many other categories, like employees at a company. And their presence or absence while not affecting your purchasing decision for this game may mean more scrutiny is warranted than normal. Will they make the same sort of games or will this be a Bioware game in name only? This is the sort of question that will be affected by the lack of the Doctors, Laidlaw, Knowles, and Gaider. What is a "Bioware game in name only" though? Because I'm fairly sure for some 'older old school' Bioware fans those aren't games like Mass Effect series or Dragon Age. People will change and some will move on. And as someone earlier has pointed out Dragon Age: Origins - one of the games that has defined the 'new generation' of BW games - was when some important people left the team too and was also published basically in the midst of biggest economic crash since Great Recession. And yet... Also - I don't think I feel comfortable comparing games to things like cars. And I'm something of a motor-head. Cars can be a way for a company to express themselves, but ultimately they are mostly utilitarian, practical products. Games, like movies or music, are a bit more than that, being creative works and they are designed by a team that is working in a different way than those who assemble cars. They also have a different turnover and different reasons why people would like to move on from their positions. Folks in creative positions especially may not want to be tied to one product, just like many actors don't like being known form one role or musicians from being a one-hit wonder, regardless how famous it makes them. Some also prefer to do something more personal for a change, rather than contributing a smaller piece in a bigger product. It's all very YMMV and all very valid reasons why people would like to move on, even if they like the company they work for. And if people are determined to monitor the situation as closely as they can in order to try and asses whether they want to keep investing into the franchise, then perhaps their moods when they left shouldn't be ignored as well? Both Fernando Melo and Mike Laidlaw appear to have parted with the company amicably, after pondering a gear shift in their career for some time and seem to have great faith in the team they've left behind - and I've seen at least a few other devs also underline that they've left under amicable circumstances and how disappointed they are that people just keep interpreting all recent departures as ones predominantly motivated by bad internal situation, rather than either something more complex or perhaps personal.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 20, 2019 2:11:18 GMT
I just want to be clear I’m all for mental health days and I don’t normally pay attention to who is taking them or who is not,!8 just happened to see that and I was concerned that the bad press was making things difficult for them. That’s all. Aside from whatever may be happening in his private life (I'm not speculating about it, just acknowledging its existence) Patrick Weekes has his hand ona pulse when it comes to politics, especially those below Canada and... well, that crap can make anyone very depressed and in need of a break sometimes I think it was John Epler who said that worrying about political climate (and well, literal climate) is up to 90% of what causes him stress these days. I can relate.
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Post by river82 on Aug 20, 2019 2:12:46 GMT
A few years ago the Holden factories within Australia were deemed no longer viable, they closed and many workers were left out of a job. Sad times for the workers involved and Holden cars in Australia were going to be built overseas. Of interest to customers though was what would happen to the iconic Holden Commodore, a car with a rich history in Australia and beloved in many people's hearts. Don't worry, the corporate suits said, the great German company Opel will build your beloved Commodore for you. Australians all scoffed at this idea, because we value different things in our cars than Europeans, but we thought we'd give them a go. Then the first test model was spotted and it looked very very strange. Of course it looked strange, it was a hatch and not a sedan. Strike number 1. Then other details were released like it had no real wheel drive, strike number 2, and it had a puny 4 cylinder engine with a turbo and no v8 option, which was strike number 3. This car, while called a commodore, was not an actual commodore, it was something completely different with a commodore badge attached. Come release day if people weren't following what was happening with the company, which also included the plight of the Australian workers, they would not have realised they were being sold a Not-Commodore at all, and there would have been no legal recourse for them to vent their ire when they later discovered they were sold Euro-trash. It is very important for consumers to be aware of the products they buy. A you looking for an MMO to get lost in for years and are interested in starting to play Guild Wars 2? Then maybe the recent troubles at Arena Net, their dubious financial situation, and the recent layoffs will interest you? I go to a small company with people I trust when I want a computer built, if the workers changed I would no longer go to that company. My mother goes to a hair dressing salon because of one person, if they left she will no longer go to that place. These people and where they work affect our spending decisions. As de-humanising as that sounds that's just the reality of the situation. Developers are human beings, but they also fit into many other categories, like employees at a company. And their presence or absence while not affecting your purchasing decision for this game may mean more scrutiny is warranted than normal. Will they make the same sort of games or will this be a Bioware game in name only? This is the sort of question that will be affected by the lack of the Doctors, Laidlaw, Knowles, and Gaider. What is a "Bioware game in name only" though? Because I'm fairly sure for some 'older old school' Bioware fans those aren't games like Mass Effect series or Dragon Age. People will change and some will move on. And as someone earlier has pointed out Dragon Age: Origins - one of the games that has defined the 'new generation' of BW games - was when some important people left the team too and was also published basically in the midst of biggest economic crash since Great Recession. And yet... Also - I don't think I feel uncomfortable comparing games to things like cars. And I'm something of a motor-head. Cars can be a way for a company to express themselves, but ultimately they are mostly utilitarian, practical products. Games, like movies or music, are a bit more than that, being creative works and they are designed by a team that is working in a different way than those who assemble cars. They also have a different turnover and different reasons why people would like to move on from their positions. Folks in creative positions especially may not want to be tied to one product, just like many actors don't like being known form one role or musicians from being a one-hit wonder, regardless how famous it makes them. Some also prefer to do something more personal for a change, rather than contributing a smaller piece in a bigger product. It's all very YMMV and all very valid reasons why people would like to move on, even if they like the company they work for. And if people are determined to monitor the situation as closely as they can in order to try and asses whether they want to keep investing into the franchise, then perhaps their moods when they left shouldn't be ignored as well? Both Fernando Melo and Mike Laidlaw appear to have parted with the company amicably, after pondering a gear shift in their career for some time and seem to have great faith in the team they've left behind - and I've seen at least a few other devs also underline that they've left under amicable circumstances and how disappointed they are that people just keep interpreting all recent departures as ones predominantly motivated by bad internal situation, rather than either something more complex or perhaps personal. A Bioware game in name only would be a game that is different from the type of game the brand "Bioware" represents. Bioware is a brand, they are known for a certain type of game, going away from what they are known for makes the brand worth less. Dragon Age Origins did not define the new age of Bioware games, Origins was seen as a return to the brand they had previously been known for. The spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, different from their newer attempts of games like KOTOR and Jade Empire. Games and cars are products at the end of the day. Consumers want to know about the product they're purchasing. And this idea that developers at big game companies will do what they want is a myth. Of the hundreds of people who work at big game companies the number of people who have a direct influence in the direction of a game is small, and those people who do have a direct influence will be in those positions due to a devotion of the company. They're more unlikely to walk away because they like changing things up every few years. Those positions are not ones to leave lightly. Laidlaw reportedly left in part because of Joplin (according to Schreier who hasn't actually been wrong yet), Knowles left because of a change in direction, the doctors left because of burnout, not interested in Melo, Hudson left right after the ME3 backlash, Flynn was in control in probably one of the worst periods at Bioware. Lower positioned devs tend to come and go, especially due to the ramp up and ramp down nature of game development, not really interested in those TBH.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 20, 2019 2:49:54 GMT
What is a "Bioware game in name only" though? Because I'm fairly sure for some 'older old school' Bioware fans those aren't games like Mass Effect series or Dragon Age. People will change and some will move on. And as someone earlier has pointed out Dragon Age: Origins - one of the games that has defined the 'new generation' of BW games - was when some important people left the team too and was also published basically in the midst of biggest economic crash since Great Recession. And yet... Also - I don't think I feel uncomfortable comparing games to things like cars. And I'm something of a motor-head. Cars can be a way for a company to express themselves, but ultimately they are mostly utilitarian, practical products. Games, like movies or music, are a bit more than that, being creative works and they are designed by a team that is working in a different way than those who assemble cars. They also have a different turnover and different reasons why people would like to move on from their positions. Folks in creative positions especially may not want to be tied to one product, just like many actors don't like being known form one role or musicians from being a one-hit wonder, regardless how famous it makes them. Some also prefer to do something more personal for a change, rather than contributing a smaller piece in a bigger product. It's all very YMMV and all very valid reasons why people would like to move on, even if they like the company they work for. And if people are determined to monitor the situation as closely as they can in order to try and asses whether they want to keep investing into the franchise, then perhaps their moods when they left shouldn't be ignored as well? Both Fernando Melo and Mike Laidlaw appear to have parted with the company amicably, after pondering a gear shift in their career for some time and seem to have great faith in the team they've left behind - and I've seen at least a few other devs also underline that they've left under amicable circumstances and how disappointed they are that people just keep interpreting all recent departures as ones predominantly motivated by bad internal situation, rather than either something more complex or perhaps personal. A Bioware game in name only would be a game that is different from the type of game the brand "Bioware" represents. Bioware is a brand, they are known for a certain type of game, going away from what they are known for makes the brand worth less. Again - that means that ME and DA may be "BGINO" for older fans. And I don't think there are many brands that are static in what they are. Both times and things change and people will either accept or even demand change at some point. Tell-Tale's tale is one of mismanagement, but they did indeed faithfully stuck to their formula and it didn't work out in the end. The old engine is basically a soul of Bethesda's games, warts and all, yet people attribute most of Beth's issues to them stubbornly sticking to their tried and true methods and tools and clearly demand change. Obsidian had to be bought by Microsoft to survive, because it seems that what they did so well before was no longer attractive enough to keep the company afloat. Things will change - if not internally, then externally and that in itself may even change how people view older titles. Case in point...: Yet I see KOTOR and Jade Empire counted into 'classic Bioware' quite often these days. Only if you look at it through a lens of things you can buy - not through the lens of how they are produced. Which is my point. Who has said anything about developers at big companies "doing what they want"? Also - yes, they totally do. And the fact that they didn't wield much influence over a big project is why game devs may move to different places or seek positions in smaller/indie game companies or open their own. In fact, many who have worked in Bioware and have left relatively recently work on smaller projects in smaller studios - like Improbable founded by Flynn or Phoenix Labs founded and staffed by former Riot, Bioware, Capcom and Blizzard devs. The 'I'm a smaller part of a bigger whole' or 'I'm a bigger fish in a smaller pond' is a very common dilemma on a creative field that leads to many career shifts, not just in gaming industry. I mean, aside from common issues with burnout, I guess. Laidlaw is on record directly stating that he was looking for change in direction for some time and that the slowdown that came with what has later turned out to be the reboot is what has conveniently allowed him to move away without causing major disruption in the team. So rebooting DA was a cause of his departure... just not in a way that it was portrayed by certain narrative.
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Post by river82 on Aug 20, 2019 3:05:03 GMT
Again - that means that ME and DA may be "BGINO" for older fans. And I don't think there are many brands that are static in what they are. Both times and things change and people will either accept or even demand change at some point. Tell-Tale's tale is one of mismanagement, but they did indeed faithfully stuck to their formula and it didn't work out in the end. The old engine is basically a soul of Bethesda's games, warts and all, yet people attribute most of Beth's issues to them stubbornly sticking to their tried and true methods and tools and clearly demand change. Obsidian had to be bought by Microsoft to survive, because it seems that what they did so well before was no longer attractive enough to keep the company afloat. A brand is what you're known for. Some brands are static, some brands are not. The brand of Bioware has changed over the years, but they first diluted their old brand to build a new one on top of that. A game that is different from what Bioware is known for will be a Bioware game in name only until they're new brand matches the games they create. Blizzard is well known for creating many different kinds of games, their brand is more fluid. Bethesda is known for creating one type of game, their brand is more static. The old engine has nothing to do with Beth's brand. Beth makes exploration type RPGs. Obsidian did … a number of things. And according to Avellone they've been looking to be bought out for a while. Yet I see KOTOR and Jade Empire counted into 'classic Bioware' quite often these days. KOTOR and Jade Empire represented the period of time when Bioware went away from PC development first. This was their "we're going console" era. Only if you look at it through a lens of things you can buy - not through the lens of how they are produced. Which is my point. As a consumer you look at things through a lens of things you can buy. Who has said anything about developers at big companies "doing what they want"? Also - yes, they totally do. And the fact that they didn't wield much influence over a big project is why game devs may move to different places or seek positions in smaller/indie game companies or open their own. I fact, many who have worked in Bioware and have left relatively recently to work on smaller projects in studios - like Improbable founded by Flynn and Phoenix Labs founded and staffed by former Riot, Bioware, Capcom and Blizzard devs And these devs will move from one project they have little to no control over to another project they have little to no control over. Where they ended up may or may not have been a driving force behind why they left. Flynn founded a smaller company doesn't mean the main reason he left was to found a smaller company. The 'I'm a smaller part of a bigger whole' or 'I'm a bigger fish in a smaller pond' is a very common dilemma on a creative field that leads to many career shifts not just in gaming industry. I mean, aside from common issues with burnout. And the other side of the coin is being a bigger fish in a smaller pond comes with increased financial insecurity. So if you're in a high up position with a good income oftentimes … there needs to be a bit of a push. Laidlaw is on record directly stating that he was looking for change in direction for some time and that the slowdown that came with what has later turned out to be the reboot is what has conveniently allowed him to move away without causing major disruption in the team. So rebooting DA was a cause of his departure... just not in a way that it was portrayed by certain narrative. Bill Clinton is on record saying he did not have sexual relations with Monical Lewinsky. I trust Schreier because in his many articles on Destiny, Bioware, and now Blizzard he has yet to be shown to be wrong. [/quote]
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 20, 2019 3:41:28 GMT
Again - that means that ME and DA may be "BGINO" for older fans. And I don't think there are many brands that are static in what they are. Both times and things change and people will either accept or even demand change at some point. Tell-Tale's tale is one of mismanagement, but they did indeed faithfully stuck to their formula and it didn't work out in the end. The old engine is basically a soul of Bethesda's games, warts and all, yet people attribute most of Beth's issues to them stubbornly sticking to their tried and true methods and tools and clearly demand change. Obsidian had to be bought by Microsoft to survive, because it seems that what they did so well before was no longer attractive enough to keep the company afloat. A brand is what you're known for. Some brands are static, some brands are not. The brand of Bioware has changed over the years, but they first diluted their old brand to build a new one on top of that. A game that is different from what Bioware is known for will be a Bioware game in name only until they're new brand matches the games they create. Blizzard is well known for creating many different kinds of games, their brand is more fluid. Bethesda is known for creating one type of game, their brand is more static. The old engine has nothing to do with Beth's brand. Beth makes exploration type RPGs. Obsidian did … a number of things. And according to Avellone they've been looking to be bought out for a while. From what I've observed Bioware is most definitely not a static brand. Heck, they like to experiment even within one franchise, as is the case with DA. All the rest hinges entirely on subjective assessment of individual gamers, because again - even time changes people's attitude towards past titles. Also, it's the engine that allows Bethesda to create a certain type of games. Their engine is as much part of their brand as exploration type RPGs they make in it. So changing a console can affect the type of game one is making... yet Beth's engine has nothing to do with their brand? Anyway - that stiill doesn't change that they are now viewed as BW classics, which meshes with a point I've made earlier. I'm fairly sure that I'm not the only one who consumes creative works differently than I consume my car or my phone or else. Also - this statement kinda invalidates this whole discussion... It depends on their role, isn't it? But smaller teams usually means more input into the project from individual members. Again, how much control one wants to wield is very YMMV. They may as well be entirely happy with being a cog in someone else's machine if they believe in product well enough and indie studios usually have more control over project overall than big AAA companies. Also - sure, the fact that where they ended up may have not been a driving force behind why they left. But you seemed pretty adamant that there's little to no reason any dev, especially one on a higher position, would leave their cushy AAA gamedev job every few years (although hardly any of senior dev has left only after a few years in BW tho - most seem to have worked at least close to 10 years there or longer), while this is relatively common occurrence, not just in game dev. Ultimately I don't know Flynn or the rest and I can't tell why they switched jobs or founded new studios. But their desire to work on certain projects or in smaller studio is as valid a reason to switch their jobs as any other suggested scenario. We are moving away from actual point of the discussions. All positions and decisions come with certain kinds of risk and I'm fairly sure most of these folks are adults who know what they're doing. Not all people work for 'good income' or attaining high position. And entrepreneurship in gaming industry is still a thing. I mean heck, we still live in golden age of indies (and increasing calls for AAA devs to unionize to do something about exploitative work conditions and increasing job insecurity) - if there's a time to found new gaming studios, it's probably now. Schreier has also been described by many devs as someone who pushes certain narratives, so yes - he's been shown to be wrong or inaccurate, overly-dramatic or spinning things to reach certain conclusions. And if you don't trust what the devs themselves say, then there's really not much else we can talk about here... Like, if the most relevant side to all this is just assumed to lie (Bill Clinton comparison, really?) then this whole thing stops being about accurate assessment of the situation...
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Post by river82 on Aug 20, 2019 4:07:33 GMT
From what I've observed Biwoare is most definitely not a static brand. Heck, they like to experiment even within one franchise, as is the case with DA. All the rest hinges entirely on subjective assessment of individual gamers, because again - even time changes people's attitude towards past titles. Also, it's the engine that allows Bethesda to create a certain type of games. Their engine is as much part of their brand as exploration type RPGs they make in it. Then why was there such an outcry on the forums that Anthem had no romance? It can't be because Bioware is well known as that romance developer right? In comparison, name one thing that's a staple in every Blizzard game. You build a game on an engine, but your engine isn't what you're known for. Bethesda are known for their exploration RPGs, they aren't known as "the creation engine" studio. So changing a console can affect the type of game one is making... yet Beth's engine has nothing to do with their brand? Of course. Why do you think there's so few RTS games on the console? Bioware were playing around with the RTS genre when they made Baldur's Gate, the isometric view is exactly the same as used in RTS games. When they moved to console it was removed, the strategic gameplay was watered down, and things started to become more action oriented. Beth's engine has nothing to do with their brand. They make exploration RPGs, that's their brand. Wait … if Beth changed to an engine that didn't allow them to make exploration RPGs, then that would affect their brand. Anyway - that stiill doesn't change that they are now viewed as BW classics, which meshes with a point I've made earlier. The point isn't that they are classics, the point was that Origins wasn't a new formula for Bioware it was a return to a previous formula. I'm fairly sure that I'm not the only one who consumes creative works differently than I consume my car or my phone or else. Also - this statement kinda invalidates this whole discussion... As a consumer you are interested in things that affect what you buy. What affects the car you buy? What affects the game you buy? All of those things you're interested in as you're viewing things through a lens of what you buy. 20 low level devs leaving - not interested in. Also - sure, the fact that where they ended up may have not been a driving force behind why they left. But you seemed pretty adamant that there's little to no reason any dev, especially one on a higher position, would leave their cushy AAA gamedev job every few years If you change jobs every few years you wouldn't rise to a position like "creative director". It takes a while to work yourself up to that position. What I was saying was that it's unusual for so many people driving the creative process at a games company to leave within such a short time frame. We are moving away from actual point of the discussions. All positions and decisions come with certain kinds of risk and I'm fairly sure most of these folks are adults who know what they're doing. Not all people work for 'good income' or attaining high position. And entrepreneurship in gaming industry is still a thing. I mean heck, we still live in golden age of indies (and increasing calls for AAA devs to unionize to do something about exploitative work conditions and increasing job insecurity) - if there's a time to found new gaming studios, it's probably now. Some don't work for good income, and yet some do. So when one creative director leaves that could be because of a difference in philosophy in life. But when all the creative directors and 2 rounds of GMs of a company leave within so short a time frame of each other, due to the differences in people's philosophies and life goals, that is unusual. And in my opinion is indicative of an atmosphere within a company. Schreier has also been described by many devs as someone who pushes certain narratives, so yes - he's been shown to be wrong or inaccurate, overly-dramatic or spinning things to reach certain conclusions. And if you don't trust what the devs themselves say, then there's really not much else we can talk about here... Like, if the most relevant side to all this is just assumed to lie (Bill Clinton comparison, really?) then this whole thing stops being about accurate assessment of the situation... Which is why you take Schreier's opinion pieces with a grain of salt, but when he says " It led to the departure of several key staff including veteran Dragon Age creative director Mike Laidlaw" that is something I take highly. Networking is a thing. If you leave a place of work most reasonable people don't burn bridges within the industry. So I wouldn't expect Laidlaw to air dirty laundry, which means I also expect Laidlaw's words to be a sanitised version of what happened.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 20, 2019 4:47:40 GMT
The only thing of interest for me with fernando leaving is that apparently Dragon Age is at a point in development where it can be done with a minimum of disruption. I don't see the point in being concerned about the game until we actually know anything about the game. When there's actual information to be had we can all decide whether or not we're interested in it. Until then its just worrying to worry. where'd you read that? In his parting email he writes : "But they say all good things must come to an end. For me personally, I've been wanting to take some time to disconnect and figure out what i'd like to focus on as a next chapter, and this seemed as 'good' / least disruptive timing as it would likely get." It's posted in the twitter thread.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 20, 2019 4:50:27 GMT
In his parting email he writes : "But they say all good things must come to an end. For me personally, I've been wanting to take some time to disconnect and figure out what i'd like to focus on as a next chapter, and this seemed as 'good' / least disruptive timing as it would likely get." It's posted in the twitter thread. Could mean that they are in a lull between developing periods and don't know where to go next, maybe even with the move...?...or it could mean that its almost finished.
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Post by river82 on Aug 20, 2019 5:29:11 GMT
Hmmm, I did say a while ago that I didn't want to stick around if Bioware was headed away from me as a fan because I didn't want to become a grumpy old man on the forums, but I think that's what I've been doing. So I think it's time I moved on from Bioware as a fan and leave the forums to those excited for Bioware's future (of which I am not). Not intending this post to be dramatic so I'll just say hope everyone enjoys the next Dragon Age (which is definitely not almost finished lol) and the future of Anthem and maybe I'll catch some of you later on some other games.
Wish everyone here all the best *waves*
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Post by Fredward on Aug 20, 2019 5:38:12 GMT
I was going to say I've given up reading the tea leaves but that's a total lie. In the case of people leaving though I don't think I'll bother unless it coincides with some conrete news drop that could theoretically have acted as motivation or part of their motivation (ie Laidlaw leaving after DA4's first iteration was axed). Jobs aren't and maybe shouldn't be seen as lifelong commitments, regardless of seniority.
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Post by fredvdp on Aug 20, 2019 8:55:43 GMT
Ben Irving leaving is actually a good thing. People who didn't play SWTOR don't know about him, but the guy almost caused the death of the game with his ideas (which unfortunately he seems to have pushed on Anthem once he was kicked out of SWTOR dev team). Since he's been replaced on SWTOR, that dev team have made great stride in fixing the damage he caused to the game. I played some casual SWTOR now and then. Which changes did Ben Irving make that damaged the game? I noticed some changes, but I don't know if they're his.
One thing I noticed that I strongly disliked is how they got rid of commendations. The commendation vendors that sold item mods were still there, last I saw, but their inventory was empty. Another thing I disliked is how easy the game got. There's no challenge at all. Everyone is soloing the heroic areas.
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Post by saandrig on Aug 20, 2019 9:39:14 GMT
Ben Irving leaving is actually a good thing. People who didn't play SWTOR don't know about him, but the guy almost caused the death of the game with his ideas (which unfortunately he seems to have pushed on Anthem once he was kicked out of SWTOR dev team). Since he's been replaced on SWTOR, that dev team have made great stride in fixing the damage he caused to the game. I played some casual SWTOR now and then. Which changes did Ben Irving make that damaged the game? I noticed some changes, but I don't know if they're his.
One thing I noticed that I strongly disliked is how they got rid of commendations. The commendation vendors that sold item mods were still there, last I saw, but their inventory was empty. Another thing I disliked is how easy the game got. There's no challenge at all. Everyone is soloing the heroic areas.
The biggest change under Irving (and heavily backed up by him every time he could open his mouth, hence why SWTOR fans started meme'ing the word "exciting") was the introduction of Galactic Command. Right now (almost 3 years later) the system is bearable (and is going to be removed entirely soon). But when first introduced it was like "loot boxes from hell". You had to grind your ass off nonstop for months on a single character in order to get gear that was handed in a RNG way and you had no guarantee you will ever get the full setup. Gearing alts seemed like a life long chore. And this change contradicted the extremely popular and entire alt friendly direction SWTOR was doing in the prior few years. Then several more unpopular moves by Irving were the last straw - players started doing the most optimal CXP/per minute activities and those activities were promptly nerfed while the Cartel market was doing a heavy promotion of CXP boosters. At about Rank 90 it started taking close to 2 hours of efficient grinding to get to the next Rank and it only increased with each Rank. The PR handling of the situation was not done well too. As a result players started leaving the game like never before. The situation got so bad in such record time that Bioware had to do emergency streams in which they practically begged players to stay and promised to make imminent changes (while just a couple of weeks before they were saying in short tweets "all is fine and forget about changes"). Irving was quickly kicked to Anthem, CXP was tripled for months, gear grind was somewhat reworked and many CXP rewards/boosts were added.
The game becoming easy is a long process that is not tied to Irving alone. It's sort of normal for MMOs as time goes on, but it also breaks down to SWTOR having a skeleton crew for the past few years and not much budget. So the developers had to beat a dead horse (old content) in order to give an illusion of novelty. Hence the Conquest system, soloing Heroics, etc.
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Post by warden on Aug 20, 2019 10:50:46 GMT
Hmmm, I did say a while ago that I didn't want to stick around if Bioware was headed away from me as a fan because I didn't want to become a grumpy old man on the forums, but I think that's what I've been doing. So I think it's time I moved on from Bioware as a fan and leave the forums to those excited for Bioware's future (of which I am not). Not intending this post to be dramatic so I'll just say hope everyone enjoys the next Dragon Age (which is definitely not almost finished lol) and the future of Anthem and maybe I'll catch some of you later on some other games. Wish everyone here all the best *waves* Shame, I enjoyed reading your posts and one of the very few users that are actually worth talk about games or whatever. Shit, at this point i'll leave too lmao, but i'll just stick for a bit more before my departure.
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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 20, 2019 19:19:16 GMT
Let's play the qualification game then. Present your credentials that allows you to make sweeping statements like "the real surprise is they stuck with one developer so long" "turnover is extremely common in the game industry" and that "it's unusual for one person to stick with a company for so long". We can do this all day to nullify basically everything we both say, and I'm perfectly happy to engage with you in that tactic. You may not want to work on Dragon Age your whole life, that also demonstrates that you would never have been promoted to a position of immense responsibility within the Dragon Age franchise. And you are correct, Bioware employees aren't a hivemind, which makes it strange that all those senior positions, promoted for their dedication, vacated within a short time of each other. All creative developers, 2 rounds of GMs, gone. They are all individuals with their own life goals and career paths, but after showing dedication to Bioware for so many years all of them left. Interesting. So because Melo worked his way up to senior producer, he must not have had any ambitions outside of making more Dragon Age? If I become a partner at a property law firm, does that mean my one great passion is property law? Lawyer here. The answer to your rhetorical question is “yes” with respect to large law firms generally - you need to make enormous personal sacrifices to reach those heights and be committed well beyond “this is just my day job.” Also, I’ve never heard of a “property law firm.”
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Post by slimgrin727 on Aug 24, 2019 2:03:13 GMT
Given how many lead producers have left the last few years, yeah it means something. The people here downplaying are in denial - all we have to do is point to Bioware's recent track record, which is shit. The last blockbuster they made was ME2.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2019 2:18:56 GMT
*shrugs* EA will take a failure like DAI any day of the week. And despite all of the kerfuffle over ME3, it made its numbers just fine.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Aug 24, 2019 2:29:20 GMT
*shrugs* EA will take a failure like DAI any day of the week. And despite all of the kerfuffle over ME3, it made its numbers just fine. I don't want it to fail, but how many duds do you think EA is going to take from Bioware? They've nuked other devs for far less. What were ME3 numers btw?
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