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Post by alanc9 on Aug 27, 2019 22:47:08 GMT
I do do find it interesting that many of the current BioWare supporters have more recently played BioWare games. Many posters who have absolute faith in the company seem to have started with DAI or ME3 and played the older games afterward. I wonder whether this shows a trend of the audience shift of BioWare games. Not to say that more recent fans are less passionate or involved in BioWare, but that they seem to be more permissive of a change in the direction the company is going in. They seem more keen on MMO style and online always services, willing to put up with micro transactions because “everyone else is doing it” rather than mourning the fact that BioWare is now a trend-chaser and putting in micro transactions to keep up. People who are newer to BioWare never saw the company as a pioneer in games so don’t feel as badly that they are now just trying to maintain status quo. I've picked up a somewhat different version of that. From what I've seen, it's more like an inverted bell curve. The real old-timers tend to break like Andraste_Reborn and me, as do newer players. It's the ones who came along in the middle who tend to be more skeptical. Of course, that's likely because longer-term fans have already gone through major changes in direction. NWN was hugely controversial in its day for not being -- for not even trying to be -- BG3. And so on. As for the specifics, I've never seen any reason to care about microtransactions -- people paying for stuff I don't want in a game mode I don't play isn't meaningful to me. And my PC's online always unless I physically pull out the wifi stick. One thing I've noticed is that my tastes in combat systems have changed with Bio. While I used to be a fan of pause-and-strategize tactical combat and controlling the whole party, that style now strikes me as being both faintly ridiculous and not really conducive to RP. In fact , I now play DA:O unpaused except for targeting certain AoEs, and I control the NPCs as little as possible.
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Post by azarhal on Aug 27, 2019 23:28:03 GMT
One thing I've noticed is that my tastes in combat systems have changed with Bio. While I used to be a fan of pause-and-strategize tactical combat and controlling the whole party, that style now strikes me as being both faintly ridiculous and not really conducive to RP. In fact , I now play DA:O unpaused except for targeting certain AoEs, and I control the NPCs as little as possible. I always played DAO mostly unpaused and rarely controlled anyone but my character. Well I did that in all DA games and ME too. Did you know you could pause to aim in the ME trilogy? I didn't until I saw someone complaining he couldn't do the same in MEA so the game combat was shit. But if I play something like BG or Pillars of Eternity, then I'm going to pause and take controls of my party...a lot. Although, now I think if I have to choose between RtWP and turn-based, I prefer turn-based. I think it's more that their newer games aren't complex/hard enough to justify "pausing" and they put too much emphasis on "your character" too. As you say, it's not really conductive of RP.
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Post by melbella on Aug 28, 2019 1:25:27 GMT
Did you know you could pause to aim in the ME trilogy? This is how I played DA and ME (and everything that came before it, by picking powers via mouse click) until I started playing ME3MP, which forced me to use hotkeys since there was no pause. Now I mostly use hotkeys if possible. It's much faster and keeps the game flowing better for me (until I hit the wrong hotkey, of course).
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 28, 2019 6:28:05 GMT
Did you know you could pause to aim in the ME trilogy? This is how I played DA and ME (and everything that came before it, by picking powers via mouse click) until I started playing ME3MP, which forced me to use hotkeys since there was no pause. Now I mostly use hotkeys if possible. It's much faster and keeps the game flowing better for me (until I hit the wrong hotkey, of course). Well to be quite honest, in ME the fighting went from "huh what" to "a bit clunky" until MEA came along. For survivability one had to usually use the pause menus in those 3 games. MEA and MEAMP have dash to survive, no need to pause anymore and much better combat/moveability. I for one usually didnt use on lower difficulty levels the pausing in ME OT, but mostly especially in 3 with the awful omnikey and sticky enviroment it had to be used to survive sometime. in MEA you could use it for a breather/enable ammo or consumables which was fine because the already mentioned much better mobility etc. In DA series I use it for tactical usually, especially in DAI, to give move commands. Not so much for others, except with the "almost dying" moment. Then theres a pausing. So ramble to end: I think its good to give option to have a pause and I did actually miss it for the companion controls in MEA, but mostly just for that..
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Post by Crom on Aug 28, 2019 11:24:40 GMT
I don't think that this in particular means anything, no.
That said, i also don't expect anything grand from Bioware at this point, since i consider even Inquisition average.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Aug 28, 2019 15:49:23 GMT
I actually prefer the combat in ME3 to MEA, as it feels more crisp and it suitable for the ranges you will face the enemies. I don't have control problems in ME3 with the sticky cover or whatever, got used to it pretty quickly. As for the tactical modes, in ME I don't remember almost using it, everything I did on the fly when I played. Especially good in ME2 where the companion abilities are instant and Kasumi is insanely OP.
For the DA games, I played DA:O almost exclusively top-down, as a continuation for my time with Diablo 2 and NWN for a lesser degree. The game is pretty easy for me like that. In DA2 and DAI I mostly controlled the tank, as because it gets hit first, it must be placed in a good position. Especially in DAI where you have that ability the blocks all forms of damage at the cost of stamina. I only used the tactical view to precisely place dispels when tackling fade rifts. From a certain point (lvl 10ish) in the middle of the game, it becomes easy and I almost have no need to pause. The only high level instance that really requires a pause is Jaws of Hakkon.
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 28, 2019 16:47:23 GMT
Mostly it means that people's careers aren't stagnant things anymore, you know?
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Post by DragonEffect on Sept 5, 2019 1:28:13 GMT
Bioware has dragged the mystery of the taint's origin and the correlation of Archdemons with Old Gods ever since DA:Origins. Instead of providing answers, Inquisition introduced YET EVEN MORE LORE to us. Now we have Elven Gods connected to the Old Gods and Archdemons, the stuff we learned about the fall of Arlathan, magical mysteries originated from ancient elves that haven't been explained AT ALL in Inquisition, crazy elven magisters that might destroy the world if let loose, Solas with a hidden agenda, Titans, eluvians leading everywhere (even into the Fade), Mythal statues in the goddamn Deep Roads and other stuff that just can't be explained by what we know of the lore so far.
Fans are having a hard time wrapping their head around all this already. There are so many holes in it, the lore looks more like a Swiss cheese. I fear part of the senior staff leaving might compromise the integrity of DA4's plot and we might never get answers for the many mysteries the DA trilogy presented us so far.
Might as well curb my expectations for the game and wait for fans to figure out most of the missing information after playing DA4 when it comes out.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 5, 2019 2:17:52 GMT
Bioware has dragged the mystery of the taint's origin and the correlation of Archdemons with Old Gods ever since DA:Origins. Instead of providing answers, Inquisition introduced YET EVEN MORE LORE to us. Now we have Elven Gods connected to the Old Gods and Archdemons, the stuff we learned about the fall of Arlathan, magical mysteries originated from ancient elves that haven't been explained AT ALL in Inquisition, crazy elven magisters that might destroy the world if let loose, Solas with a hidden agenda, Titans, eluvians leading everywhere (even into the Fade), Mythal statues in the goddamn Deep Roads and other stuff that just can't be explained by what we know of the lore so far. Fans are having a hard time wrapping their head around all this already. There are so many holes in it, the lore looks more like a Swiss cheese. I fear part of the senior staff leaving might compromise the integrity of DA4's plot and we might never get answers for the many mysteries the DA trilogy presented us so far. Might as well curb my expectations for the game and wait for fans to figure out most of the missing information after playing DA4 when it comes out. I wouldn't worry about that. They've said they have all the lore organized together so even if members leave they aren't taking that information with them.
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Post by DragonEffect on Sept 5, 2019 2:26:21 GMT
Bioware has dragged the mystery of the taint's origin and the correlation of Archdemons with Old Gods ever since DA:Origins. Instead of providing answers, Inquisition introduced YET EVEN MORE LORE to us. Now we have Elven Gods connected to the Old Gods and Archdemons, the stuff we learned about the fall of Arlathan, magical mysteries originated from ancient elves that haven't been explained AT ALL in Inquisition, crazy elven magisters that might destroy the world if let loose, Solas with a hidden agenda, Titans, eluvians leading everywhere (even into the Fade), Mythal statues in the goddamn Deep Roads and other stuff that just can't be explained by what we know of the lore so far. Fans are having a hard time wrapping their head around all this already. There are so many holes in it, the lore looks more like a Swiss cheese. I fear part of the senior staff leaving might compromise the integrity of DA4's plot and we might never get answers for the many mysteries the DA trilogy presented us so far. Might as well curb my expectations for the game and wait for fans to figure out most of the missing information after playing DA4 when it comes out. I wouldn't worry about that. They've said they have all the lore organized together so even if members leave they aren't taking that information with them. Thank the Maker!
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2019 6:30:43 GMT
Eh. The lore's not that complex.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 5, 2019 11:51:27 GMT
Bioware has dragged the mystery of the taint's origin and the correlation of Archdemons with Old Gods ever since DA:Origins. Instead of providing answers, Inquisition introduced YET EVEN MORE LORE to us. Now we have Elven Gods connected to the Old Gods and Archdemons, the stuff we learned about the fall of Arlathan, magical mysteries originated from ancient elves that haven't been explained AT ALL in Inquisition, crazy elven magisters that might destroy the world if let loose, Solas with a hidden agenda, Titans, eluvians leading everywhere (even into the Fade), Mythal statues in the goddamn Deep Roads and other stuff that just can't be explained by what we know of the lore so far. Fans are having a hard time wrapping their head around all this already. There are so many holes in it, the lore looks more like a Swiss cheese. I fear part of the senior staff leaving might compromise the integrity of DA4's plot and we might never get answers for the many mysteries the DA trilogy presented us so far. Might as well curb my expectations for the game and wait for fans to figure out most of the missing information after playing DA4 when it comes out. It seems pretty likely to me that everything's just tied together and all the stuff in Inquisition was heavily hinting at that. So it's less that they added more and more that they're bringing the threads of the lore together. My personal speculation is that the Old Gods are also the Elven Gods, the archdemons are the physical forms of the Evanuris sundered from their spirits by the Veil, and the Blight was a bioweapon created to combat the Titans. Assuming it goes that route, which is supported by a reasonable amount of evidence, including some of the things you cited, the lore is actually much more compact than it appeared in DAO even. And honestly even if it doesn't go exactly that route it's pretty clear that they've had the broad strokes of the lore figured out for a long time, hence all the foreshadowing (e.g. the Primeval Thaig in DA2 clearly being Titan-related now, Sandal's prophecy about all the magic coming back, etc.)
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Post by warden on Sept 5, 2019 12:46:55 GMT
I wouldn't worry about that. They've said they have all the lore organized together so even if members leave they aren't taking that information with them. Thank the Maker! there is also a think called reconnection, which in rpg games that develop to be a big franchise, is a thing that happens quite often, so I wouldn't worry in the slightest.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 5, 2019 13:51:46 GMT
Fans are having a hard time wrapping their head around all this already. There are so many holes in it, the lore looks more like a Swiss cheese This speaks to me. I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore and at this point I am too lost to care. It's going to be too difficult for me to return for DA4 and I don't know if this will be any easier for newcomers. Eh. The lore's not that complex. I mean, you can say that, but ... Bioware has dragged the mystery of the taint's origin and the correlation of Archdemons with Old Gods ever since DA:Origins. Instead of providing answers, Inquisition introduced YET EVEN MORE LORE to us. Now we have Elven Gods connected to the Old Gods and Archdemons, the stuff we learned about the fall of Arlathan, magical mysteries originated from ancient elves that haven't been explained AT ALL in Inquisition, crazy elven magisters that might destroy the world if let loose, Solas with a hidden agenda, Titans, eluvians leading everywhere (even into the Fade), Mythal statues in the goddamn Deep Roads and other stuff that just can't be explained by what we know of the lore so far I am going to need little bit of help reminding me what the fuck just what this here means for THEDAS, let alone all the other stuff. there is also a think called reconnection, which in rpg games that develop to be a big franchise, is a thing that happens quite often, so I wouldn't worry in the slightest. I'm going to need all the help I can get in order to get back into it.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2019 14:13:27 GMT
Eh. The lore's not that complex. I mean, you can say that, but ... Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media. The lore/worldbuilding of Dragon Age is fairly standard, and not particularly original. I also think some fans have a tendency to get hung up on details. Questions like "What is a statue of Mythal doing underground?" rather miss the wood for the trees. I don't know what statue the poster was referring to (do they mean the lyrium idol?), but given that Elvish civilization was 1) extremely powerful and far-reaching 2) fell millennia ago, and there were any number of cataclysmic events since then, there are any number of reasons and methods by which an elven statue might have been built or moved underground. Who did it and why may not be particularly important.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 5, 2019 14:19:15 GMT
Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media I use to, but those days are long gone. I just ... I feel lost, you know?
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 5, 2019 17:16:11 GMT
I mean, you can say that, but ... Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media. The lore/worldbuilding of Dragon Age is fairly standard, and not particularly original. I also think some fans have a tendency to get hung up on details. Questions like "What is a statue of Mythal doing underground?" rather miss the wood for the trees. I don't know what statue the poster was referring to (do they mean the lyrium idol?), but given that Elvish civilization was 1) extremely powerful and far-reaching 2) fell millennia ago, and there were any number of cataclysmic events since then, there are any number of reasons and methods by which an elven statue might have been built or moved underground. Who did it and why may not be particularly important. Their lore and world is tropey by design. The fun of it is how all of this is rolled up together rather than them being particularly unique as far as standard fantasy lore goes. Also - in a world in which it is established that the underground was a domain of dwarves for millenia and lack of sources on the suggested conflict between dwarves and elves the sign of solid presence of elves far underground is indeed kinda curious.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2019 23:37:12 GMT
Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media. The lore/worldbuilding of Dragon Age is fairly standard, and not particularly original. I also think some fans have a tendency to get hung up on details. Questions like "What is a statue of Mythal doing underground?" rather miss the wood for the trees. I don't know what statue the poster was referring to (do they mean the lyrium idol?), but given that Elvish civilization was 1) extremely powerful and far-reaching 2) fell millennia ago, and there were any number of cataclysmic events since then, there are any number of reasons and methods by which an elven statue might have been built or moved underground. Who did it and why may not be particularly important. Their lore and world is tropey by design. The fun of it is how all of this is rolled up together rather than them being particularly unique as far as standard fantasy lore goes. Also - in a world in which it is established that the underground was a domain of dwarves for millenia and lack of sources on the suggested conflict between dwarves and elves the sign of solid presence of elves far underground is indeed kinda curious. My point is that, in broad strokes, we know what happened. Minor details may conflict, but that's to be expected. The lore is conflicting by design, the different cultures have written their histories from their perspective, in ways that benefit them. Not every question needs an answer, anyway. Mass Effect 3 is a pretty good example of when not to answer a question.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 6, 2019 0:42:56 GMT
Their lore and world is tropey by design. The fun of it is how all of this is rolled up together rather than them being particularly unique as far as standard fantasy lore goes. Also - in a world in which it is established that the underground was a domain of dwarves for millenia and lack of sources on the suggested conflict between dwarves and elves the sign of solid presence of elves far underground is indeed kinda curious. My point is that, in broad strokes, we know what happened. Minor details may conflict, but that's to be expected. The lore is conflicting by design, the different cultures have written their histories from their perspective, in ways that benefit them. Not every question needs an answer, anyway. Mass Effect 3 is a pretty good example of when not to answer a question. I agree with you in this regard - not only the lore is written in a way that it resembles real history, it's also a smart way to write a branching storyline of a franchise spanning over a decade, as it allows some wiggle room if changes need to be made or stuff is cut or re-arranged or retconned. However, while not every question needs answer, we do know that Bioware likes to put in hints and suggestions... or just downright troll us And usually BW is about as subtle with it as a brick to the face - so if something jumps out in a peculiar way it's usually a sign to pay attention. Wolves everywhere in DAI come to mind, heh heh. But subtler stuff exists too. Hence a lot of BW fans like having fun combing through lore and making connections. I mean... it's not like there's much else to do ATM.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 6, 2019 16:35:15 GMT
Not every question needs an answer, anyway. Mass Effect 3 is a pretty good example of when not to answer a question. It'd be interesting to look into an alternate universe where the Bio devs just threw up their hands and admitted that the Reapers never made any sense and trying to explain them was futile. I've always wondered how that would have gone over.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 6, 2019 16:38:16 GMT
I mean, you can say that, but ... Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media. The lore/worldbuilding of Dragon Age is fairly standard, and not particularly original. I also think some fans have a tendency to get hung up on details. Questions like "What is a statue of Mythal doing underground?" rather miss the wood for the trees. I don't know what statue the poster was referring to (do they mean the lyrium idol?), but given that Elvish civilization was 1) extremely powerful and far-reaching 2) fell millennia ago, and there were any number of cataclysmic events since then, there are any number of reasons and methods by which an elven statue might have been built or moved underground. Who did it and why may not be particularly important. I believe this is a Trespasser reference. And it's likely to be more important than that. When they put something there and have the NPCs remark about it, they're drawing your attention to it for a reason. (Unless they change their minds, which is always possible.)
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 6, 2019 16:51:14 GMT
It seems pretty likely to me that everything's just tied together and all the stuff in Inquisition was heavily hinting at that. So it's less that they added more and more that they're bringing the threads of the lore together. My personal speculation is that the Old Gods are also the Elven Gods, the archdemons are the physical forms of the Evanuris sundered from their spirits by the Veil, and the Blight was a bioweapon created to combat the Titans. Assuming it goes that route, which is supported by a reasonable amount of evidence, including some of the things you cited, the lore is actually much more compact than it appeared in DAO even. And honestly even if it doesn't go exactly that route it's pretty clear that they've had the broad strokes of the lore figured out for a long time, hence all the foreshadowing (e.g. the Primeval Thaig in DA2 clearly being Titan-related now, Sandal's prophecy about all the magic coming back, etc.) Hmm. Corypheus & Co. released the Blight by accident while looting Elgar'nan's Fade palace? OK, but if the Evanuris are sundered from their bodies, what's in them? There was some kind of soul in Urthemiel; who or what was it?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 6, 2019 17:55:09 GMT
It seems pretty likely to me that everything's just tied together and all the stuff in Inquisition was heavily hinting at that. So it's less that they added more and more that they're bringing the threads of the lore together. My personal speculation is that the Old Gods are also the Elven Gods, the archdemons are the physical forms of the Evanuris sundered from their spirits by the Veil, and the Blight was a bioweapon created to combat the Titans. Assuming it goes that route, which is supported by a reasonable amount of evidence, including some of the things you cited, the lore is actually much more compact than it appeared in DAO even. And honestly even if it doesn't go exactly that route it's pretty clear that they've had the broad strokes of the lore figured out for a long time, hence all the foreshadowing (e.g. the Primeval Thaig in DA2 clearly being Titan-related now, Sandal's prophecy about all the magic coming back, etc.) Hmm. Corypheus & Co. released the Blight by accident while looting Elgar'nan's Fade palace? OK, but if the Evanuris are sundered from their bodies, what's in them? There was some kind of soul in Urthemiel; who or what was it? Seems possible that it was an effect not entirely unlike tranquility, perhaps where the higher consciousness and emotional center ended up in the Fade and a bundle of crude instincts was left in the Archdemons, leaving just enough of a basis for the Taint to corrupt into something different, since there is a fair amount of evidence pointing to the Taint functionally corrupting/mutilating souls into its own image. As to why the Darkspawn would then seek out the Archdemons to lead the host and provide the impetus for a Blight, perhaps the almost blank slate left behind by the sundering (which could also explain why they've been slumbering) mixed with the raw physical power of a high dragon makes for an ideal platform for a concentrated node of the Taint, or perhaps the Taint is on some level aware that those are the forms of its creators, or some mixture of the two. I would say there's less compelling evidence for this particular speculation of mine than for the Taint as a bioweapon part of it, but Mythal's go to form being a high dragon does strike me as potential foreshadowing.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 6, 2019 19:06:22 GMT
Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media I use to, but those days are long gone. I just ... I feel lost, you know? Honestly, Dragon Age's lore is pretty straightforward compared to the monstrous mish-mash of stuff like Forgotten Realms and Pathfinder. What is unique about the history of Dragon Age is how everyone sort of 'gets it wrong' a bit, because a lot of historians are writing from their perspectives of what different symbols, stars and items mean. We purposefully have few straight-forward answers, and the ones we do have come from the sources themselves - Flemeth, Solas, Ameridan, and a few other prominent figures and deities. It's one of the few things I like about it that sets it apart from other fantasy worlds; in games like Forgotten Realms the lore is fairly omnipotent; for Dragon Age it is semi-accurate guesswork.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 6, 2019 20:24:28 GMT
Okay, well I'll amend my statement: It's not that complex if you already consume a lot of fantasy media I use to, but those days are long gone. I just ... I feel lost, you know? Does being lost matter? RP-wise, our characters should take the Codex entries more-or-less at face value, until and unless evidence emerges that they are not correct. If experiencing those contradictions means that you find yourself not really understanding how the world works, well, neither does your PC. If he's confused, you should be too.
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