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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2019 15:59:18 GMT
Thrash TO YOU. Do you understand that it's YOUR OPINION that it is thrash. Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean it's thrash or that people see what you say. If anyone is foolish is you who keeps insisting that your subjective opinion is truth. ...We are talking about Andromeda and Fallout 76 but okay, it isn't like that opinion doesn't have any non "subjective" basis here or whatever. But sure, assert the validity of opinions when if we go by the metric of non subject criteria, then well...Those things were unplayable trash fires at launch, we gonna go by that metric then? ._. I picked those two examples for a reason. What are you talking about? It is subjective whether you found them good or not regardless of the bugs. And yeah Fallout 76 does have a story if you paid attention.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2019 16:02:10 GMT
Or find me any article or quote from any media source that explains how a game or dev is looking to DAI for inspiration From a Spiders AMA on Reddit: Hello, Thank you so much for the love and support! Dragon Age Inquisition is definitely one of our biggest references! So yes, you can www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/d1qax8/comment/ezp5dtz
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 9, 2019 16:09:44 GMT
...We are talking about Andromeda and Fallout 76 but okay, it isn't like that opinion doesn't have any non "subjective" basis here or whatever. But sure, assert the validity of opinions when if we go by the metric of non subject criteria, then well...Those things were unplayable trash fires at launch, we gonna go by that metric then? ._. I picked those two examples for a reason. What are you talking about? It is subjective whether you found them good or not regardless of the bugs. And yeah Fallout 76 does have a story if you paid attention. It's not really worth much attention.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 16:59:48 GMT
Thrash TO YOU. Do you understand that it's YOUR OPINION that it is thrash. Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean it's thrash or that people see what you say. If anyone is foolish is you who keeps insisting that your subjective opinion is truth. What would you consider an objective opinion?
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Kabraxal
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 17:03:48 GMT
So yeah... DA:I is still the greatest game ever made That's certainly an opinion, an opinion I view on par with: And Fallout 76 was the greatest game ever made but sure, you do you. And your condescending arrogance is supposed to sway me how? Thrash TO YOU. Do you understand that it's YOUR OPINION that it is thrash. Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean it's thrash or that people see what you say. If anyone is foolish is you who keeps insisting that your subjective opinion is truth. What would you consider an objective opinion? No such thing.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 17:08:45 GMT
So you are denying the premise of objectivity?
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Post by warden on Sept 9, 2019 17:15:17 GMT
lmao, the apologists right there gang banging the personel.
anyway, as for today standards I think any retarded shit will at least give them a 7/10, so in that regard they don't have to worry much.
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 17:30:55 GMT
So you are denying the premise of objectivity? For subjective value qualifications? Yeah, full out denying objective opinion is possible. Otherwise the opinion would be fact.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 17:32:51 GMT
For subjective value qualifications? Yeah, full out denying objective opinion is possible. Otherwise the opinion would be fact. That's not what I'm asking. I am asking for objectivity. I didn't even mention subjectivity.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 17:37:48 GMT
For subjective value qualifications? Yeah, full out denying objective opinion is possible. Otherwise the opinion would be fact. That's not what I'm asking. I am asking for objectivity. I didn't even mention subjectivity. Objectivity in subjective measurements of quality is not actually possible, despite the critic industry thriving on that lie.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 17:41:23 GMT
Objectivity in subjective measurements of quality is not actually possible, despite the critic industry thriving on that lie. Really? So there can be no such thing as an objective critic? How about an objective trial?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 17:44:06 GMT
Objectivity in subjective measurements of quality is not actually possible, despite the critic industry thriving on that lie. Really? So there can be no such thing as an objective critic? How about an objective trial? No such thing as an objective critic. As for a trial: no, and that’s why the language for proving someone guilty gets progressively more difficult as the severity of the punishment rises. The fact of subjective bias is built into our court system in order to mitigate its damage as much as possible.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 17:49:42 GMT
No such thing as an objective critic. As for a trial: no, and that’s why the language for proving someone guilty gets progressively more difficult as the severity of the punishment rises. The fact of subjective bias is built into our court system in order to mitigate its damage as much as possible. So someone saying that The Room is a better movie than Citizen Kane is true, because of subjectivity.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 17:51:08 GMT
That's certainly an opinion, an opinion I view on par with: And Fallout 76 was the greatest game ever made but sure, you do you. And your condescending arrogance is supposed to sway me how? It isn't? By default I don't usually care to sway opinions to begin with but beyond that simple factor if you view DAI as some grand masterpiece I don't really have much to say in regards to that if someone enjoyed it to that extent, numerous glitches, design issues and poor story boarding decisions aside. People enjoying something warts and all isn't something one can really challenge. But arrogance? Not particularly, it wasn't a good title to me, it was a mediocre and poorly optimized title that was filled with quite a few little lies by the devs that never really materialized but sway you? No, I won't even try, clearly you've done that to yourself if you view it as the pinnacle of game design. So have no fear, I have no desire to piss in your Kool-Aid.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 17:54:22 GMT
...We are talking about Andromeda and Fallout 76 but okay, it isn't like that opinion doesn't have any non "subjective" basis here or whatever. But sure, assert the validity of opinions when if we go by the metric of non subject criteria, then well...Those things were unplayable trash fires at launch, we gonna go by that metric then? ._. I picked those two examples for a reason. What are you talking about? That it isn't my opinion on their story or their gameplay that has led the masses to view them with disdain? I don't have that much sway heh. No its soddy gameplay, poor implementation, game ruining glitches, numerous patches being required to have a working title in the first month, etc, etc, etc. Ignore the history of those titles as you will, my memory isn't apparently as short. As I said before, I picked those two titles out for a reason.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 17:55:13 GMT
No such thing as an objective critic. As for a trial: no, and that’s why the language for proving someone guilty gets progressively more difficult as the severity of the punishment rises. The fact of subjective bias is built into our court system in order to mitigate its damage as much as possible. So someone saying that The Room is a better movie than Citizen Kane is true, because of subjectivity. There is no “truth” there. It is not objectively true that either movie is better than the other. And your condescending arrogance is supposed to sway me how? It isn't? By default I don't usually care to sway opinions to begin with but beyond that simple factor if you view DAI as some grand masterpiece I don't really have much to say in regards to that if someone enjoyed it to that extent, numerous glitches, design issues and poor story boarding decisions aside. People enjoying something warts and all isn't something one can really challenge. But arrogance? Not particularly, it wasn't a good title to me, it was a mediocre and poorly optimized title that was filled with quite a few little lies by the devs that never really materialized but sway you? No, I won't even try, clearly you've done that to yourself if you view it as the pinnacle of game design. So have no fear, I have no desire to piss in your Kool-Aid. Ah, so just trolling people by trying to act superior in spouting your opinions as facts. Noted. Will no longer take you seriously.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 17:57:12 GMT
There is no “truth” there. It is not objectively true that either movie is better than the other. So all movies are the same?
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 17:57:54 GMT
It isn't? By default I don't usually care to sway opinions to begin with but beyond that simple factor if you view DAI as some grand masterpiece I don't really have much to say in regards to that if someone enjoyed it to that extent, numerous glitches, design issues and poor story boarding decisions aside. People enjoying something warts and all isn't something one can really challenge. But arrogance? Not particularly, it wasn't a good title to me, it was a mediocre and poorly optimized title that was filled with quite a few little lies by the devs that never really materialized but sway you? No, I won't even try, clearly you've done that to yourself if you view it as the pinnacle of game design. So have no fear, I have no desire to piss in your Kool-Aid. Ah, so just trolling No more so then you responding to my opinion as arrogance I suppose? As for taking me seriously? Who are you, why should I care? Some random dragon age fan(who views the game I enjoyed the least as the best of the bunch apparently) whom I have never had a conversation with prior to today? Oh how will I survive without your continued support and belief in my stances? Woe is me. No my dude, you come across as far more arrogant then I if you believe in half of what you just spouted.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 17:58:23 GMT
There is no “truth” there. It is not objectively true that either movie is better than the other. So all movies are the same? I am starting think this guy is an art house dropout tbh
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 9, 2019 17:58:40 GMT
Those are some AAA rpgs that are coming out in the next year or 2. Once upon a time a Bioware game would be able to compete with those. It can compete or it can't. It is entirely dependent on the quality and how compelling the game that launches actually is.
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 18:04:03 GMT
No more so then you responding to my opinion as arrogance I suppose? As for taking me seriously? Who are you, why should I care? Some random dragon age fan(who views the game I enjoyed the least as the best of the bunch apparently) whom I have never had a conversation with prior to today? Oh how will I survive without your continued support and belief in my stances? Woe is me. No my dude, you come across as far more arrogant then I if you believe in half of what you just spouted. The schtick isn’t winning you any arguments. Just so you know.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 18:05:08 GMT
I am starting think this guy is an art house dropout tbh I'm just trying to understand the logic behind that. I don't understand it, but just because I don't understand it doesn't make me right. But I really need to have someone explain the thought process to me, like I am five years old.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2019 19:03:19 GMT
Wasn't it just a standard relativist move? "Better" means that the thing in question has higher ratings among some particular reference community, and nothing more. Pick a different reference group, get different rankings.
It's pretty easy to come up with lists of creative works which were despised on creation, only to become recognized as masterworks later. Or works whose reputation went the other way.
Sure, we like to pretend that we're the ones who have it right now, but that's just dressing up the tastes of our particular time, place, class, etc., as universal truths. They are not.
See also: noncognitivism.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2019 19:05:30 GMT
What are you talking about? That it isn't my opinion on their story or their gameplay that has led the masses to view them with disdain? I don't have that much sway heh. No its soddy gameplay, poor implementation, game ruining glitches, numerous patches being required to have a working title in the first month, etc, etc, etc. Ignore the history of those titles as you will, my memory isn't apparently as short. As I said before, I picked those two titles out for a reason. Glitches I understand but gameplay not so much. There were plenty of people praising ME: As gameplay after all with some saying it’s the best in the series.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2019 19:05:52 GMT
Wasn't it just a standard relativist move? "Better" means that the thing in question has higher ratings among some particular reference community, and nothing more. Pick a different reference group, get different rankings. It's pretty easy to come up with lists of creative works which were despised on creation, only to become recognized as masterworks later. Or works whose reputation went the other way. Like New Vegas.
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