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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 16:17:00 GMT
1) The OT is remastered (graphics and sound) and packaged with a new additional Extended Cut to ME3. There is also an added sequence to the Anderson/TIM conversation dependent on Reputation. The ability to convince TIM to break free from his indoctrination and open the arms himself. The crucible still won't fire, but no one shoots anyone else... meaning Anderson and TIM both live. As the arms open, Harbinger requests a parlay with Shepard. As Shepard approaches the meeting point, the boy emerges with Harbinger explaining that the boy is the Catalyst
2) The conversation between the Catalyst and Shepard is largely unchanged. The original choices would still be available to the player.
3) The new EC, however, immediately cuts in at the point Shepard reaches the decision point on the platform. He turns around and, if the player chooses to activate this option and has 1) resolved the geth/quarian conflict peacefully; and 2) encouraged EDI to make her own decisions about what to change about her core programming... Shepard offers a fifth option thats not destruction. control, or assimilation. freely chosen cooperation on the basis that the Reapers have the memories of countless unique organic species that found unique ways to resolve conflicts and that the peaceful resolution to the geth quarian war proves that, even though synthetics may turn on their creators, the creators and their creations have found a way to re-establish peace between them without destroying each other, reducing one or the other to slaves, and without one assimilating the other. This time, when Shepard extends his/her hand, the catalyst accepts it... They turn together to a terminal that appears from the floor and broadcast an announcement that the war is over. Both sides lay down their arms on each planet as the broadcast spreads throughout the relay network.
3) This negotiated peace becomes the canon ending to ME3 going forward. It's fragile, so there is room for new wars to erupt. The DNA of everyone is unchanged. The relays are still intact.
4) ME:A - The Nexus and Arks are on their way to Andromeda... and unknown to anyone onboard at this point, they are going to set in motion a string of events through their discoveries and meddlings that will ultimately trigger an inter-galactic war. The United Reaper/Organic Milky Way vs. the Jaardan/Remnant Alliance.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 1, 2019 16:31:33 GMT
Solution? A moment after Shepard passes out, and once the arms to the Citadel are fully opened, the crucible fires it's beam of destroy. Bye, bye reapers. Instead of the Normandy fleeing the scene, two squadmates take a shuttle to Shepard's location. He/she is found alive, and Anderson is barely alive. Because of the amount of blood he's lost from being shot and debris falling on him, he later dies. ME4 happens. During ME4, the player encounters Jein Garson who has the crazy idea to travel to Andromeda. Lots of people want to join her. She is able to use some of the destroyed reapers to construct ships that will take folks to Andromeda. There would even be a moment where Shepard meets Alec. MEA starts shortly after the events of ME4.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 16:49:25 GMT
Solution? A moment after Shepard passes out, and once the arms to the Citadel are fully opened, the crucible fires it's beam of destroy. Bye, bye reapers. Instead of the Normandy fleeing the scene, two squadmates take a shuttle to Shepard's location. He/she is found alive, and Anderson is barely alive. Because of the amount of blood he's lost from being shot and debris falling on him, he later dies. ME4 happens. During ME4, the player encounters Jein Garson who has the crazy idea to travel to Andromeda. Lots of people want to join her. She is able to use some of the destroyed reapers to construct ships that will take folks to Andromeda. There would even be a moment where Shepard meets Alec. MEA starts shortly after the events of ME4. Total annihilation of the enemy is not a solution to war. Yet, it is the choice you want to force everyone to make. I've made up my mind. If they do that, I won't be buying ME5.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 1, 2019 16:54:33 GMT
So you're retconning ME3's ending and retconning ME:A right out of existence?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 17:05:27 GMT
So you're retconning ME3's ending and retconning ME:A right out of existence? No. ME3's original endings are still available to the player to select. If they don't meet the requirements for the new additional ending, they won't have it available to them to choose from. Same holds for the scenes between TIM and Anderson. The player can still wind up with the scenario as it is now with TIM forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson and Shepard being wounded. However, if the player meets the criteria, they will have the added option of using a dialogue choice to save both Anderson and TIM.
ME:A still exists as well. They left for Andromeda as the game sets out and arrived and met the Angara and the Kett exactly as has already been told.
ME5 can continue in either galaxy or take place partially in both - 600 years or so after the end of ME3. The canon, however, is that the Reapers and Organics reached a cooperative, peaceful truce/treaty an the geth/quarian war was settled peacefully. There are Reapers still in the galaxy, but they aren't harvesting anyone. They are instead helping out and teaching organics about the massive number of civilizations that have preceeded this particular group. As they are doing this, they are discovering that each civilization that came before was unique and did not precisely follow their prescribed paths. This enables them to learn and alter their core programmings to become more individual themselves... just like EDI. People who want Shepard alive can just have him/her brought out of cryo for a cameo appearance. There would be an option to let him/her RIP.
Can conflicts still arise in such a galaxy. Certainly. Nothing that way has been forcibly changed. Species have different POV's and now individual Reapers also have individual POVs - each representing the entirely of a new species. Perhaps they can even replicate individual new reapers in the forms of these old species.
As the stories build in each galaxy... the two galaxies wind up on a collision course for inter-galactic war... Of course, the realization of that war would be far into the future from ME:A. It'll take time to set up the travel corridor necessary to enable instantaneous movement between the two galaxies. The Jaardan/Remnant Alliance (along with any other Andromeda species that get added to the franchise) are every bit the equal of the Reapers/Leviathan Alliance and the associated Milky Way species. Clash of the Titans.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 1, 2019 17:28:06 GMT
Sorry, that was aimed at themikefest. His Garson timetable is incompatible with ME:A as released. Or do we have to buy a new version of that too?
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Post by themikefest on Sept 1, 2019 17:34:06 GMT
Sure. Remake MEA. Why not? It might be received better than what was released.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 1, 2019 17:34:36 GMT
It occurs to me that anything called "a solution" should come packaged with a description of the problem that it's supposed to be a solution to. What's the design intent here, exactly?
I've got zero interest in a remaster. Do I still get a sequel Shep?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 18:07:42 GMT
It occurs to me that anything called "a solution" should come packaged with a description of the problem that it's supposed to be a solution to. What's the design intent here, exactly? I've got zero interest in a remaster. Do I still get a sequel Shep? Design intent is to add an ending to the existing ones so that it becomes the "neutral" canon from which the MEU can move forward in a consistent state - with geth, with Reapers, with Cerberus, with Shepard, etc....
The canon as far as Shepard is concerned is he/she was unharmed during the negotiated peace... so he/she survives the ending and is placed in cryo, since the next game occurs 600+ years after the peace treaty. Some reason to put Ryder back into cryo could also probably come up, enabling the player to decide in each case whether or not they want to resurrect Shepard or Ryder or potentially both for a cameo appearance. The player character in each galaxy would be new. If ME5 takes place partially in each galaxy, the player would then be playing two different PCs in the one game.
If the remaster is not played, the choice whether or not to resurrect Shepard and/or Ryder could be made in a "keep" prior to starting the new game. The player could also indicate their choices for other things, like whether or not they cured the genophage... for choices that Bioware plans to carry over with variables in some fashion. As I said, the two canon choices would be to have resolved the geth/quarian ware peacefully and that a negoatiated peace was reached with the Reapers. There would, therefore, be no option in the "keep" to, say, choose to eliminate the geth or the quarians. If you play the remaster and choose to eliminate the geth or the quarians, you can do that but the choice upon import would revert to the canon. Since choosing to eliminate the geth or quarians would cause the negotiated peace ending to be unavailable, the ending would also revert to the canon upon import.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 2, 2019 8:51:20 GMT
Honestly, not really a fan, I think making a canon ending to a game with a save import system, barring extremes like if Shepard dies during the suicide mission, is a bad choice. I'm pretty happy with just leaving the timeline of the Milky Way as it is. There's still plenty of smaller-scale stories to explore in the Milky Way prior to the Reaper War, although for a good many they'd need to lose their human-centric fixation. And Andromeda has plenty of potential to explore, they could go practically anywhere with that setting since only a tiny bit of the galaxy has been explored thus far. Even if they choose not to continue with Ryder, hopefully they don't squander the potential of the setting. But trying to do some sort of in-depth link between the two settings at the expense of established player options is not something I'd be down with. A new iteration of the original trilogy that polishes the rough edges both gameplay and story-wise would be very welcome, though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 20:46:54 GMT
Honestly, not really a fan, I think making a canon ending to a game with a save import system, barring extremes like if Shepard dies during the suicide mission, is a bad choice. I'm pretty happy with just leaving the timeline of the Milky Way as it is. There's still plenty of smaller-scale stories to explore in the Milky Way prior to the Reaper War, although for a good many they'd need to lose their human-centric fixation. And Andromeda has plenty of potential to explore, they could go practically anywhere with that setting since only a tiny bit of the galaxy has been explored thus far. Even if they choose not to continue with Ryder, hopefully they don't squander the potential of the setting. But trying to do some sort of in-depth link between the two settings at the expense of established player options is not something I'd be down with. A new iteration of the original trilogy that polishes the rough edges both gameplay and story-wise would be very welcome, though. No worries. As I've said many times, my preference is that they just continue on with the story in Andromeda. This is merely a compromise idea... something I'd be better with than taking one of the current ME3 endings and making it canon.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 21:09:40 GMT
I thought this was the solution thread to the asari menace.
Very misleading thread is misleading.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 21:13:45 GMT
I thought this was the solution thread to the asari menace. Very misleading thread is misleading. WTF? Where did you get that idea?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 21:15:14 GMT
I thought this was the solution thread to the asari menace. Very misleading thread is misleading. WTF? Where did you get that idea? Just fucking with ya! (that's kinda my thing... 😉)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2019 21:22:27 GMT
A solution:
Bioware continues to make Mass Effect games set in Andromeda like they want to and those still whining about the ME3 endings either get over it or get out.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 21:25:57 GMT
OK, serious time.
That endings is kinda like the Green ending but without the Green Wave of Brainwashing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 21:53:14 GMT
OK, serious time. That endings is kinda like the Green ending but without the Green Wave of Brainwashing. ... and also without the idea of it being a utopia that follows. A negotiated peace is fragile and involves a lot of work and commitment to keep it from breaking down and devolving into another war. Prejudices and grudges can last a long time and sometimes new wars break out because of them. It is not the apex of evolution or a manifest destiny, which is how the game portrays synthesis.
Still, it is the solution where at least everyone gets to live another day. The Reapers do have something worthwhile to bring to the table... a billion years of knowledge compiled from every sentient species that ever existed in the Milky Way Galaxy. Annihilating them also destroys any possibility of accessing all that experience... and the galaxy just might need that sort of knowledge when they come up against an enemy from another galaxy that is every bit the equal of the Reapers and Leviathan combined.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 22:02:37 GMT
OK, serious time. That endings is kinda like the Green ending but without the Green Wave of Brainwashing. ... and also without the idea of it being a utopia that follows. A negotiated peace is fragile and involves a lot of work and commitment to keep it from breaking down and devolving into another war. Prejudices and grudges can last a long time and sometimes new wars break out because of them. It is not the apex of evolution or a manifest destiny, which is how the game portrays synthesis.
Still, it is the solution where at least everyone gets to live another day. The Reapers do have something worthwhile to bring to the table... a billion years of knowledge compiled from every sentient species that ever existed in the Milky Way Galaxy. Annihilating them also destroys any possibility of accessing all that experience... and the galaxy just might need that sort of knowledge when they come up against an enemy from another galaxy that is every bit the equal of the Reapers and Leviathan combined. I would don't how anyone would make peace with the robot squids of death. They have killed or huskifed their loved ones, their kids and their friends. Plus countless others before them. So, with that in mind, how would you ever break bread with something like them?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 22:18:09 GMT
... and also without the idea of it being a utopia that follows. A negotiated peace is fragile and involves a lot of work and commitment to keep it from breaking down and devolving into another war. Prejudices and grudges can last a long time and sometimes new wars break out because of them. It is not the apex of evolution or a manifest destiny, which is how the game portrays synthesis.
Still, it is the solution where at least everyone gets to live another day. The Reapers do have something worthwhile to bring to the table... a billion years of knowledge compiled from every sentient species that ever existed in the Milky Way Galaxy. Annihilating them also destroys any possibility of accessing all that experience... and the galaxy just might need that sort of knowledge when they come up against an enemy from another galaxy that is every bit the equal of the Reapers and Leviathan combined. I would don't how anyone would make peace with the robot squids of death. They have killed or huskifed their loved ones, their kids and their friends. Plus countless others before them. So, with that in mind, how would you ever break bread with something like them? How did the world make peace with the Germans after WWII. They had committed horrendous attrocities against Jews and several other populations of Europe. Still, the Germans were not annihilated completely. It wasn't even that all the German troops were annihilated. In the end, an armistice was signed and we started the process of sifting out the real criminals from those more innocent (Nuremburg Trials) At some point, the Allies said enough killing was enough after the leader (Hitler) was out of the picture.
In this case, the leader removes himself from the picture by seeing reason rather than committing suicide. The killing stops... removing the reason to continue to press the war. Sure, it's a stretch that the Reaper leader would see reason... but that is in keeping with a strong Mass Effect tradition of Shepard being able to convince and enemy to stand down by using a single charming or intimidating sentence.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 22:25:57 GMT
I would don't how anyone would make peace with the robot squids of death. They have killed or huskifed their loved ones, their kids and their friends. Plus countless others before them. So, with that in mind, how would you ever break bread with something like them? How did the world make peace with the Germans after WWII. They had committed horrendous attrocities against Jews and several other populations of Europe. Still, the Germans were not annihilated completely. It wasn't even that all the German troops were annihilated. In the end, an armistice was signed and we started the process of sifting out the real criminals from those more innocent (Nuremburg Trials) At some point, the Allies said enough killing was enough after the leader (Hitler) was out of the picture.
In this case, the leader removes himself from the picture by seeing reason rather than committing suicide. The killing stops... removing the reason to continue the press the war. Sure, it's a stretch that the Reaper leader would see reason... but that is in keeping with a strong Mass Effect tradition of Shepard being able to convince and enemy to stand down by using a single charming or intimidating sentence.
Save it was both the Reapers and Starkid who committed it. And if Shep, the Council or any of the other governments said they were making peace with the Reapers, who would believe that they were not just brainwashed by the Reapers?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 22:43:50 GMT
How did the world make peace with the Germans after WWII. They had committed horrendous attrocities against Jews and several other populations of Europe. Still, the Germans were not annihilated completely. It wasn't even that all the German troops were annihilated. In the end, an armistice was signed and we started the process of sifting out the real criminals from those more innocent (Nuremburg Trials) At some point, the Allies said enough killing was enough after the leader (Hitler) was out of the picture.
In this case, the leader removes himself from the picture by seeing reason rather than committing suicide. The killing stops... removing the reason to continue the press the war. Sure, it's a stretch that the Reaper leader would see reason... but that is in keeping with a strong Mass Effect tradition of Shepard being able to convince and enemy to stand down by using a single charming or intimidating sentence.
Save it was both the Reapers and Starkid who committed it. And if Shep, the Council or any of the other governments said they were making peace with the Reapers, who would believe that they were not just brainwashed by the Reapers? Save it. It wasn't Hitler alone who committed those atrocities during WWII either. Your option - Then continue to annihilate them when you replay the game. The canon would move it forward with an assumed negotiated peace. I've been told that Bioware using a Shepard Lives Destroy Canon in no way invalidates the other currently possible endings where Shepard dies. So it holds for you. This proposal in no way invalidates your ability to play a Destroy endings in your own game. It just enables the franchise to move forward with Reapers still alive in it.
If you find that unfair at all, then it supports the notions I've expressed earlier. The best way is for Bioware to just continue on with the story in Andromeda. As I've said again above, the option to just move forward with ME:A2 is still my preference.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 22:49:28 GMT
Save it was both the Reapers and Starkid who committed it. And if Shep, the Council or any of the other governments said they were making peace with the Reapers, who would believe that they were not just brainwashed by the Reapers? Save it. It wasn't Hitler alone who committed those atrocities during WWII either. Your option - Then continue to annihilate them when you replay the game. The canon would move it forward with an assumed negotiated peace. I've been told that Bioware using a Shepard Lives Destroy Canon in no way invalidates the other currently possible endings where Shepard dies. So it holds for you. This proposal in no way invalidates your ability to play a Destroy endings in your own game. It just enables the franchise to move forward with Reapers still alive in it.
If you find that unfair at all, then it supports the notions I've expressed earlier. The best way is for Bioware to just continue on with the story in Andromeda. As I've said again above, the option to just move forward with ME:A2 is still my preference.
I was pointing out the plot holes in your proposal, no need to be snippy. If you can't take criticism, then don't ask for opinions on your works. It's that simple.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 23:03:26 GMT
Save it. It wasn't Hitler alone who committed those atrocities during WWII either. Your option - Then continue to annihilate them when you replay the game. The canon would move it forward with an assumed negotiated peace. I've been told that Bioware using a Shepard Lives Destroy Canon in no way invalidates the other currently possible endings where Shepard dies. So it holds for you. This proposal in no way invalidates your ability to play a Destroy endings in your own game. It just enables the franchise to move forward with Reapers still alive in it.
If you find that unfair at all, then it supports the notions I've expressed earlier. The best way is for Bioware to just continue on with the story in Andromeda. As I've said again above, the option to just move forward with ME:A2 is still my preference.
I was pointing out the plot holes in your proposal, no need to be snippy. If you can't take criticism, then don't ask for opinions on your works. It's that simple. Lol. I mirror your "snippiness" to the letter and now you whine about it? If you can't take it being returned to you, don't dish it out in the first place.
Alternatively, we could go with a more exact replica of WWII. Shepard turns around at the decision point on the platform and points out to the Catalyst that the Quarians and Geth have found a way to avoid destroying each other despite the fact that the geth rebelled against their creators. The Catalyst can't face the reality that his programming is faulty and commits suicide in true Saren fashion... but not before order all the Reapers to stand down. The organics, not being just bloodthirsty idiots, notice immediately that the Reapers have ceased their fire and effectively surrendered. Peace ensues.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2019 23:08:01 GMT
I was pointing out the plot holes in your proposal, no need to be snippy. If you can't take criticism, then don't ask for opinions on your works. It's that simple. Lol. I mirror your "snippiness" to the letter and now you whine about it? If you can't take it being returned to you, don't dish it out in the first place.
Alternatively, we could go with a more exact replica of WWII. Shepard turns around at the decision point on the platform and points out to the Catalyst that the Quarians and Geth have found a way to avoid destroying each other despite the fact that the geth rebelled against their creators. The Catalyst can't face the reality that his programming is faulty and commits suicide in true Saren fashion... but not before order all the Reapers to stand down. The organics, not being just bloodthirsty idiots, notice immediately that the Reapers have ceased their fire and effectively surrendered. Peace ensues.
Whatever you say, bub. Maybe you work on your creative writing skills instead.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 23:14:55 GMT
Lol. I mirror your "snippiness" to the letter and now you whine about it? If you can't take it being returned to you, don't dish it out in the first place.
Alternatively, we could go with a more exact replica of WWII. Shepard turns around at the decision point on the platform and points out to the Catalyst that the Quarians and Geth have found a way to avoid destroying each other despite the fact that the geth rebelled against their creators. The Catalyst can't face the reality that his programming is faulty and commits suicide in true Saren fashion... but not before order all the Reapers to stand down. The organics, not being just bloodthirsty idiots, notice immediately that the Reapers have ceased their fire and effectively surrendered. Peace ensues.
Whatever you say, bub. Maybe you work on your creative writing skills instead. ... and maybe you're just not as good at messing with people as you think you are.
I don't mind that you don't like the idea in the least. If you think that, as a canon, it would invalidate destroy, then it supports my belief that a destroy canon invalidates the other endings... and the only fair way to move forward is to stay in Andromeda.
As I said before, my mind is made up. If they go with a destroy canon, I simply won't buy another ME game. The cost of that sort of galactic peace (i.e. annihilating the Reapers and the geth) is simply too high.
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