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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 22, 2019 3:56:57 GMT
they are mainly a side thought that is forgotten by the character the player is romancing right after you get the sex scene. This is objectively false. In most if not all of the Bioware games I have played, the romanced are referenced multiple times by the characters after the culmination scene.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 22, 2019 5:39:57 GMT
Planescape Torment with Deionarra let me have one of the most rewarding "romance" within a game without romancing anyone in game. There is 2 Bioware like romance in game with companions. I wasn't feeling it so I did not engage. Planescape spoilers. Deionarra is a npc who is in love with not you, but one of your past lives (you look and sound the same from old you, but you have a different personality) Past life dude was a terrible person and Deionarra was a naive young woman who was used and sacrificed by him. Her ghost lingers and is trying to help current you. Anyway in the end you reunite and you can tell her she's a moron and destroy her, or tell her she was used by past you, but her past sacrifices mean a lot to current you and you love her for it. And then you set her soul free. There's a lot of cool rpg choices as you can lie or not when you say you love her etc...
You can also have "romantic" dialogue with an old ugly witch who was also a past lover (this character was a bit of an inspiration for Flemeth) and there's also a lot of finesse in the dialogue. You can say you don't find her ugly at all...and you can lie or you can be truthful. And she reacts accordingly either sensing manipulation or you're a romantic fool. You can push her to almost a breaking point by being nice. Anyway don't know what Bioware will do in the future, but the companion/romances in their current form are for me a nice touch...they add something to the game for me for sure but I can't say I experienced lately some great moments of saving a soul or burrying someone in eternal bitterness with the mighty powa of my love or lack there of. I guess they could do something special with Solas in DA4, his willingness to throw his lover under the bus (and Flemeth, Felassan, the current world etc...) for some magical vision of the world is fertile ground for potential interesting dialogues. Now can Bioware do it? It might mean bringing back an old npc, and put ressources in an old side romance. And of course everyone in here enjoy different things, but what can I say I enjoy rpg for adventures and saving the world kind of deal, I also tend to have fun when it feels like the stake are high in my romances.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 22, 2019 21:01:45 GMT
Oh I so want to see someone "demand" different sexual positions. It would just be so funny. I mean I could just hear that bioware is against against certain types of relationships because they don't have anyone doing some position.
Seriously though. Imagine someone going WE DEMAND REVERSE ...riding the bull.
Fixed it??? I just didn't know if we are allowed to say what I was going to say.
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Post by githcheater on Sept 22, 2019 22:06:17 GMT
I just didn't know if we are allowed to say what I was going to say. As I recall, riding the bull was often enthusiastically proclaimed on old BSN ... particularly after the romances were announced but before the game was released ... all in good fun.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2019 17:49:44 GMT
Planescape Torment with Deionarra let me have one of the most rewarding "romance" within a game without romancing anyone in game. There is 2 Bioware like romance in game with companions. I wasn't feeling it so I did not engage. Planescape spoilers. Deionarra is a npc who is in love with not you, but one of your past lives (you look and sound the same from old you, but you have a different personality) Past life dude was a terrible person and Deionarra was a naive young woman who was used and sacrificed by him. Her ghost lingers and is trying to help current you. Anyway in the end you reunite and you can tell her she's a moron and destroy her, or tell her she was used by past you, but her past sacrifices mean a lot to current you and you love her for it. And then you set her soul free. There's a lot of cool rpg choices as you can lie or not when you say you love her etc...
You can also have "romantic" dialogue with an old ugly witch who was also a past lover (this character was a bit of an inspiration for Flemeth) and there's also a lot of finesse in the dialogue. You can say you don't find her ugly at all...and you can lie or you can be truthful. And she reacts accordingly either sensing manipulation or you're a romantic fool. You can push her to almost a breaking point by being nice. Anyway don't know what Bioware will do in the future, but the companion/romances in their current form are for me a nice touch...they add something to the game for me for sure but I can't say I experienced lately some great moments of saving a soul or burrying someone in eternal bitterness with the mighty powa of my love or lack there of. I guess they could do something special with Solas in DA4, his willingness to throw his lover under the bus (and Flemeth, Felassan, the current world etc...) for some magical vision of the world is fertile ground for potential interesting dialogues. Now can Bioware do it? It might mean bringing back an old npc, and put ressources in an old side romance. And of course everyone in here enjoy different things, but what can I say I enjoy rpg for adventures and saving the world kind of deal, I also tend to have fun when it feels like the stake are high in my romances. An interesting thing about the PS:T romances is that they COULD NOT be physical. Annah due to her fiendish nature, would start smoldering and turn dangerously hot if she got...excited...And in Falls From Grace's case, she could drain the life from you if you did anything (I believe with a really low Wisdom you can kiss her, and yeah, you die) But the writing for both of the relationships is really good. I CANNOT REMAIN HERE FOR MUCH LONGER. MY PUNISHMENT CALLS, AND FATE AND TIME SHALL SOON BE HERE. I WILL RETURN YOU TO SIGIL IF YOU WISH. Fall-From-Grace: That is not my wish. I *will* find you again, no matter where in Lower Planes you will be - just as you shall be able to find me. The Nameless One: IT MAY BE A LONG TIME. WHERE I AM BOUND, TIME IS NOT MEASURED IN YEARS, AND THE CRIMES I COMMITTED ARE STRONGER THAN ANY CAGE. Fall-From-Grace: No cage shall separate us, and no Plane shall divide us. Keep thinking of me, and we shall meet again. The Nameless One: I SHALL NOT FORGET ALL YOU SACRIFICED FOR ME. Fall-From-Grace: Just do not forget me. The Nameless One: TIME LAYS WASTE TO ALL THINGS. BUT I SHALL FIGHT IT AS LONG AS I CAN. Fall-From-Grace: Time is not your enemy. Forever is.
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Post by annia on Sept 27, 2019 21:03:00 GMT
Yeah, the ME team has always been pretty shit about that. See also how there was no mlm squad romance in Andromeda until they literally patched back in cut content for bi Jaal. Also how they cut out same-gender romance for Thane, Jack, and Tali in ME2, leaving everyone except Kelly and Liara in the DLC straight. Pretty conspicuous how it’s only ever the LGBT romance content that gets cut with the ME team. And especially the mlm content, too, because that’s more threatening to fragile heterosexuality than wlw, which gets handwaved as “lesbians hot”. I remember being kinda surprised when that Bi Jaal announcement was made, since I had kind of assumed that we were stuck with what we got at launch. It would not have come to mind as most important detail that needed fixing in that particular game. Eventually I just decided to be happy for people who that meant a lot, since Jaal made sense and the Cora romance was really over the top compared to the gay/bi ones. If Jaal is already willing to go for an alien who he hasn't really got much in common biologically, gender doesn't seem like a big leap to make. I like reading fanfiction between new games so new options that inspire people to write nice stories are always a plus in my book.
I like the romances myself. I try a few of them at least and check out the others on Youtube. I would probably play the DA if they removed the romances though, so not a deal breaker. It would be a disappointment though, unless they made a game that was different in such a way that romances wouldn't be a good fit. In Anthem they didn't really add anything that would have given me the same feels, but the game felt too short for any believable romance to really develop, so I was glad there weren't any.
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Post by Part Time Ninja on Sept 30, 2019 22:39:23 GMT
I can certainly see why there may be a little creative resentment at *having* to create a romance arc for a character. Bioware games specialise (in my opinion) in escapist character driven fantasy adventures. The romance arcs have become not only a feature but a stern expectation from the fanbase.
Do they regret that? Maybe... On one hand, I’d say any expectation like that can potentially “box” a writer in thereby serving to limit creative freedom when writing a character/story. On the other, they should probably understand it’s a big reason why so many play their games.
If included, they should always aim to integrate the romance arc with the main narrative as much as possible. As opposed to being a sort of silo sub story...which comes off a little tacky.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 1, 2019 2:31:42 GMT
If included, they should always aim to integrate the romance arc with the main narrative as much as possible. As opposed to being a sort of silo sub story...which comes off a little tacky. I don't understand this line of thought. Why must a character's romance arc be integrated with the main story? Not all followers are integral to the main story, and sometimes people just fall in love; it's an ordinary thing that happens in life.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Oct 1, 2019 3:09:37 GMT
I don't understand this line of thought. Why must a character's romance arc be integrated with the main story? Not all followers are integral to the main story, and sometimes people just fall in love; it's an ordinary thing that happens in life. I don't get it either. What if you end up not liking a character or romance tied to the main story? It can tarnish the whole game which, apart from that, is perfectly enjoyable. I certainly don't want to feel obligated to romance someone because they are 'more important' than some other character I like more. (Nevermind that I tend to romance everyone at least once; the only exception in DA is Sera - I just can't get in the right frame of mind for her.)
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 1, 2019 3:23:32 GMT
First I am just going to admit that I didn't read every response so far, but I did skim the thread.
Towards BioWare regretting having romances in their games I doubt they regret it. I think the bigger regret is how much a role they play in the game now and the mandatory aspect of them. I think from at least what I have read over the years the regret only started around Dragon Age 2 when the online community dubbed the romance content "player sexual" and the demands that started to come after that. I bet there are times they would much rather reduce the amount of romance content in the game so they can put more focus on other aspects of the game, but at the same time at least how I see it BioWare has also been changing the nature of some of the romance content so its more then just "press x for sex" by making some romances be more about the time together. So they might be looking to change the narrative slowly.
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Post by Part Time Ninja on Oct 1, 2019 22:22:35 GMT
If included, they should always aim to integrate the romance arc with the main narrative as much as possible. As opposed to being a sort of silo sub story...which comes off a little tacky. I don't understand this line of thought. Why must a character's romance arc be integrated with the main story? Not all followers are integral to the main story, and sometimes people just fall in love; it's an ordinary thing that happens in life. Oh it’s simply personal preference for me and for all intents and purposes, I’d also advocate a preference for any follower to have a significant stake in the main narrative also. It ties into the immersion for me and I think provides greater scope to add depth to the romance arc (raised stakes, conflicts in player decisions etc.). I suppose it comes down to my desire to have as many opportunities as possible to forge unique relationships with the characters in the game. And I think tying them as much as possible to the main narrative simply enhances that potential.
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Post by NotN7 on Oct 2, 2019 1:32:39 GMT
Regrets? No, to be honest romance in a story base game (to me) reflects life you would need to be a chunk of wood, concreate etc. to have not experience romance so with that said live life not some games version of life
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Oct 2, 2019 1:41:55 GMT
I suppose it comes down to my desire to have as many opportunities as possible to forge unique relationships with the characters in the game. And I think tying them as much as possible to the main narrative simply enhances that potential. The down-side of this is makes companions required recruits. If I don't like someone, I want the option to not recruit them or be able to kick them out.
Kicking Morrigan out in DAO was doable but she still showed up again. Kicking Alistair out wasn't possible until the Landsmeet (and then the choice was taken away from you when he quit instead). Not recruiting Leliana was damn near impossible** since she stalked me all over Lothering trying to convince me to let her join up. Zevran and Sten were easy to miss recruiting in the first place; Shale was completely optional; and Oghren somewhat required for the Deep Roads finding Branka part.
In DA2, Anders, Aveline, sibling, Varric, Merrill all required. Sibling could be killed and Anders could be told to go away even though he came back. Fenris was easily missable. Isabela was present regardless but not required to recruit. Sebastian likewise if DLC installed.
For DAI, Cass, Varric, Solas required. Dorian required for mage mission, Cole for Templars, though both could be rejected later. Everyone else was optional and, not surprisingly, unconnected to the main story at all. This allows for a lot more variety, imo, and more RP options in giving me choices for who to recruit and who to pass on.
ME was similar. Kaidan/Ashley/Tali/one of Garrus or Wrex/Liara all required recruits. In ME2, Garrus, Mordin, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, +3 more required. In ME3, everyone required except VS, who you can kill, and Javik. MEA, everyone is required.
Overall, I prefer the freedom to choose my party rather than have people forced on me. If I miss out on something because X isn't present this PT, that's fine since I can add them in next time around. Usually for a first run I'll recruit everyone I can find, but later on I want options.
**Assuming you meet her; in my first game I never entered the tavern so it wasn't an issue
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 2, 2019 1:51:39 GMT
I would rather have a stronger story and characters, even if it meant their recruitment was required. The weak, tenuous connections between several party members and the actual plot is one of my major gripes with Inquisition.
No video game will ever have the freedom of a tabletop RPG, and we just have to accept that. But it's perfectly possible for characters to have personal connections to the main plot, while still being entirely optional recruits. It just requires better writing. In fact, in my ideal game, EVERY piece of 'side content', including optional party members, would have a significant impact on the main plot.
If that means a shorter, more focussed game. So much the better. I'm fucking sick to death of open world anyway.
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Post by arvaarad on Oct 2, 2019 3:18:16 GMT
No video game will ever have the freedom of a tabletop RPG, and we just have to accept that. I accept nothing, I hope I live to see robot DMs. We’ve still got a long way to go... but machine learning has been progressing fast lately.
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TabithaTH
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by TabithaTH on Oct 2, 2019 8:35:35 GMT
Honestly, I think required companions like in DAI is more a fail safe for newer players, so they don't accidentally screw themselves over. I just don't see them completely removing it because of this. Maybe if you had the option of disabling it or it followed the difficulty? Like those trials or whatever they where called in DAI.
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Post by Lulupab on Oct 2, 2019 18:58:40 GMT
I mean that depends on idea of Romance.
Cute kissing scenes and sex scenes and similar things are OK, but they don't contribute much to the game and plot, because its a side thing. But when it affects the plot dramatically due to said romance, that's where I and I imagine many people like it. For example Solas Romance is a great example of this and we all know how popular that is. Romancing Solas as an elf is best replayability of the game, if you didn't do it the first time, because it will be the most unique experience.
I suppose Alistar was like this too, but it pales in comparison.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 2, 2019 22:36:58 GMT
No video game will ever have the freedom of a tabletop RPG, and we just have to accept that. I accept nothing, I hope I live to see robot DMs. We’ve still got a long way to go... but machine learning has been progressing fast lately. "Alexa, I roll to seduce the Beholder." "BOOP. Fuck you. Rocks fall, everyone dies."
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Post by arvaarad on Oct 2, 2019 23:16:21 GMT
I accept nothing, I hope I live to see robot DMs. We’ve still got a long way to go... but machine learning has been progressing fast lately. "Alexa, I roll to seduce the Beholder." "BOOP. Fuck you. Rocks fall, everyone dies." Hold on, now. Unlike a human, Robot DM can quickly compute many alternative paths in response to player chaos. Robot DM can manually enable and disable their disgust responses as the situation requires. Robot DM has read every scrap of Beholder rule 34 content on the internet. Robot DM has extendable arms that can manifest into swarming eye-tentacles. Robot DM can roleplay this scene as long as you want, huuuuman.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 3, 2019 2:52:30 GMT
Romancing Solas as an elf is best replayability of the game, if you didn't do it the first time, because it will be the most unique experience. For you. Not me. Please don't speak for all players. I don't give a damn about Solas, or elves, for that matter.
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Post by annia on Oct 3, 2019 14:51:04 GMT
I think it would be a silly regret to have since they have used the romance mechanic with great success to further their story telling in the past. The fact that different game companies experiment with different ideas is the very reason that people have favorite game companies in the first place. The BW romances have kind been their thing in my opinion. It has brought them a lot of female fans, many of whom are quite active in the fan community and make a great deal of fan material for the games. The fact that the romances have been done so well have added a great deal of depth to the game, since not being alone when you are trying to save the world has added to my role playing experience. The romances have given us a lot of laughs and cries (probably less cries).
I like the fact that romances aren't story essential. People who don't like them can just chose not to engame in them.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Oct 15, 2019 8:36:56 GMT
Well David Gaider is including romances in his new game (Chorus) being crowdfunded by his new startup company in which he got to decide what he wanted to create - so I'd say he doesn't regret romances. Apparently they're even intending to have them be more connected with the main story. But as for the writers currently on staff - I imagine their feelings on the matter vary from person to person. They're not a single 'writer's pit' organism. Personally while romances are not a dealbreaker for me they do add another way to customise my characters story and can sometimes elevate the emotional experiance, so I appreciate them.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 15, 2019 15:10:14 GMT
No video game will ever have the freedom of a tabletop RPG, and we just have to accept that. I accept nothing, I hope I live to see robot DMs. We’ve still got a long way to go... but machine learning has been progressing fast lately. We'll probably live long enough to see an AI that tailors game experiences and writing to our fancy, will fabricate faces and voices, scenarios etc. I will live to see my Shepard have a threesome with Jack and Miranda
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Post by x19dude95 on Oct 25, 2019 15:53:22 GMT
It's not a selling point to me.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Oct 25, 2019 16:48:18 GMT
Thread's gone better than it would have in the hands of the modbots!
A little odd to still see "Oh noez straight peeplz" peppered in a bit, but I think every BioWare fan is accustomed to some similar by now.
For the question, I'm sure some do, but probably because of how much it complicated things, not so much because the idea itself was an issue.
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