inherit
7754
0
Mar 28, 2024 18:54:15 GMT
3,397
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,202
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by biggydx on Oct 7, 2019 23:32:56 GMT
I know this is a rather obscure topic, but I was kinda curious how people prefer to unlock new abilities, skills, or even skill trees. There are plenty ways to obtain skills and abilities in the games on offer today.
Skill progression by obtaining points: I think when most of us think of progression, it's often in terms of leveling up a character, gaining some points, and using said points to obtain new skills and abilities. Sometimes it's also possible to obtain these same points by completing certain actions in-game. Mass Effect is probably the best example of this, as you're rewarded points which be used to unlock new abilities, or upgrade existing ones.
Skill progression by completing quests/activities: Some games lock certain skills and abilities behind a questline or objective that most be completed. From a BioWare standpoint, this would be akin to having to progress the game far enough in order to access the Specialization questline, which then allows you to unlock its respective skill tree. Another example would be that Saints Row. Often times, passive bonuses (or even upgrades) could only be obtained by completing certain activities, or getting a high-score in said activity.
Skill progression through active use: I'm sure there are other examples, but the one I'm thinking of the most (that fits this example) is The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. In this game, you could only unlock new perks/passives by actively using said skill. This would include things such as running (to improve Athleticism), or using spells to further improve your access to higher-tier spells.
Skill progression by meeting stat requirements: Using Bethesda as another example, Skyrim and the Fallout series serve as games that restrict your ability to unlock said skills without meeting a certain stat requirement. For example, in Skyrim, if I wanted to be able to obtain a Sneak perk that let me temporarily vanish from sight, I needed to completely max out my Sneak skill. In Fallout, if I wanted to obtain the Meltdown perk, I needed to invest points into my Science and Energy Weapon stats (IIRC). It's been awhile since I've played it, but does Dragon Age: Origins also have this type of system (such as needing to have high constitution to unlock higher-tier defense perks)?
Of course, there's also people who enjoy something in between, and that's fine as well.
|
|
inherit
401
0
1
41,360
DragonKingReborn
20,433
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
887
590
|
Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 8, 2019 0:05:45 GMT
Went with points. If I'd seen this question last year, I probably would've said "obtaining naturally" as I liked the way the - really - old Quest For Glory games did it. If you used magic a lot, your Magic skill improved. If you practiced picking locks, your Lock Picking skill improved. Simple, logical, "realistic".
However, having played Kingdom Come Deliverance, I don't think I'd want games to go back to that. It became too much of a chore.
Origins certainly had some abilities gated by Constitution or Strength (or whatever), I don't think I'd want that to be the dominant characteristic of progression.
So my preferred method is, complete quests, gain exp, level up (get points on level up), spend points on abilities.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,067
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 8, 2019 0:30:28 GMT
All of these are fine, and I've played games that include them all at once, in some way or another.
|
|
Frost
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 635 Likes: 1,653
inherit
1542
0
1,653
Frost
635
Sept 11, 2016 16:54:37 GMT
September 2016
frost
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Frost on Oct 8, 2019 0:53:32 GMT
I voted for skill progression by obtaining points, although skill progression by completing quests/activities can work well for a few things such as specialization questlines. I don't like skill progression through active use because it can be grindy.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,067
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 8, 2019 1:02:52 GMT
Actually, my favourite system for learning new abilities is stealing them from enemies, that's a hoot. But it's fairly unique to Final Fantasy games I think, lol.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
31,065
colfoley
16,485
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Oct 8, 2019 1:06:16 GMT
First off I have always been curious about levelling up by doing certain things. Namely in terms of weapons. You level up your weapons and your abilities to use them by using the weapons in combat. So in Dragon Age's case the more you use your bow the more you unlock skills like Longshot and others. But...I just doubt this will work.
That being said there are three ways I do like. Levelling is the obvious one, you do things in the world, you get XP, those XP levels your character which unlocks ability points where you can spend them on what you want. Certain 'things' in the world that you can find which unlocks more skill points, like tombs in Odyssey or Witcher and shrines I think in Greedfall. And then as I mentioned before I want to see different rewards for completing quests as long as it makes sense for that quest. Like if you help a wise old warrior he could give you a skill point and train you how to use something.
As a note I thought that Odyssey locking skills behind level requirements was brilliant as it did force you to at least experience and look into the other trees.
|
|
Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
Posts: 29,425 Likes: 103,909
inherit
ღ N-Special
151
0
103,909
Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
29,425
August 2016
hrungr
Hrungr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Hrungr
18,258
65,767
|
Post by Hrungr on Oct 8, 2019 1:17:47 GMT
For Dragon Age, I think the system they currently have (which is essentially a combo of #1 & #2) works fine.
Skill progression through use is fine in games where you're the sole hero running around, but when you have companions - that complicates matters (unless they use a completely different progression system). They'd be all over the map skill-wise depending who you took with you, how often, and what you let them do.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,067
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 8, 2019 5:09:49 GMT
For Dragon Age, I think the system they currently have (which is essentially a combo of #1 & #2) works fine. Skill progression through use is fine in games where you're the sole hero running around, but when you have companions - that complicates matters (unless they use a completely different progression system). They'd be all over the map skill-wise depending who you took with you, how often, and what you let them do. In at least one game I can think of that uses this system, or at least a similar one (learning new spells/abilities by using existing abilities x number of times), you could turn each ability on or off in the tactics menu, and they would only use the ones that were turned on.
|
|
inherit
1398
0
3,574
Absafraginlootly
"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
1,344
September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Absafraginlootly on Oct 8, 2019 6:03:27 GMT
The combined system of obtaining points for talents/skills/perks by leveling and completing quest/activites for specialisations of the previous games works fine. Though i prefer things like 'talking to the ancient arcane warrior' to 'collect 10 macguffins' as a specialisation unlocker.
But if they choose to go classless in da4 then i think they should bring back ability stat requirements from dao eg. Needing high strength to unlock the highest 2-hander talents. That way you'd have to choose between Jack of all trades, master of none or just master of one. Or pretty good at two, whatever, just as long as you can't have everything.
|
|
inherit
299
0
5,812
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,463
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Oct 8, 2019 6:21:43 GMT
I like abilities locked behind story quests as rewards, like the aegis in JoH. And I like specializations involving a questline to learn them/their abilities. But I don't like it when its very grindy. I don't think the specs in DAI were that grindy and was fine with them, for reference. A little bit of work is all fine and good. But I much prefer having a narrative tied into them, above anything else. I hate the idea of having to complete timed trials or races or other such activities for a skill, though. Real questlines or nothing, imo. Preferably with set pieces and actual dialogue. Other than that, points via leveling are fine with me. I wouldn't mind bringing back the points being used in stats like DAO and DA2, with certain abilities/skills that have stat requirements. In theory, anyway. I never had a problem in either game making the character I wanted.
|
|
Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,664 Likes: 6,633
Member is Online
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
Member is Online
6,633
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,664
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
|
Post by Gileadan on Oct 8, 2019 6:34:36 GMT
A combination of almost anything of the above works for me, but I generally prefer acquiring skills through interaction with the game world over spending abstract level up points. I'd rather discover a rare tome hidden away in a hard to find place to learn a new spell from, or picking up a new fighting technique from an old master at arms, and then get better as I use those in game. Stat requirements are fine too.
The one thing I can't stand are "skill loadouts" that prevent me from using all my accumulated skills by giving me limited "skill slots" or just by limiting my mapping of skills to keys and buttons. If I spent any resource to acquire a skill, it should be usable at all times from then on.
|
|
apollexander
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 350 Likes: 775
inherit
9079
0
775
apollexander
350
July 2017
apollexander
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by apollexander on Oct 8, 2019 9:07:59 GMT
I prefer the current system in Dragon Age with ability progression mostly by obtaining Exp. And I would like to point out that the progression system in Anthem is the worst, where you get abilities randomly.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Oct 8, 2019 12:14:55 GMT
I picked combination, though I'm mostly for points. Most games have a way to wipe the board clean and re allocate if you don't like how something turned out. However, I do like special or final/ultimate skills that are unlocked by a quest, boss battle. I can't pick this as the main progression system because I dislike games where every spell or skill has to be purchased or acquired through a quest.
I just think points allow more freedom of play style. Stat based skills almost railroad you into one class or style of play. I like games where you can play hybrid classes either by design or point allocation. Allows for more experimentation.
I know people say that being able to play anything ruins replayability, but that is in total control of the player. Nothing is stopping anyone from dumping all the points into one place. I'm always for more choices, not less.
|
|
inherit
The Good Drow
510
0
6,800
Gilli
Stuck in the Forgotten Realms
2,913
August 2016
gilli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Gilli-chan
EMH-Bruce
2712
|
Post by Gilli on Oct 8, 2019 13:16:33 GMT
I liked the system in DAI, but I also really like the system in ESO. You can get skill points by: - leveling up - get some for doing quests (3 per zone / finish a group dungeon quest) - defeating specific monsters (group boss achievement in public dungeons) - or just "find them" (find 3 Skyshards and you get a skill point)
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 8, 2019 18:04:02 GMT
I picked 1, earning points through leveling. For me, this makes the most sense for a gamey system and provides a good point/progression balance. The only problem I've observed with this is that such systems usually leave completionists like me with a glut of points that I dump into skills I never use, or that end up making the PC overpowered.
That said, I don't necessarily think the point glut issue is down solely to the leveling mechanic. DAI's passives helped to mitigate the feeling that the skills into which I was dumping points were worth something. In addition, becoming overpowered is also down to skill power balance as well as enemy level and power. Playing DAI with trials on greatly mitigates that problem as well.
The one I absolutely do NOT want is "Obtaining them naturally through constant use of an action associated with said skill," which is incredibly tedious. In every game I've played with this sort of system, I've eventually been forced into tedious grinding just to make sure my skills were leveled. I do agree that the idea makes skill use seem natural and more realistic, but the actual experience I've had with it in game hasn't been great.
|
|
XJlock
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 176 Likes: 120
inherit
8826
0
Jun 26, 2017 17:58:04 GMT
120
XJlock
176
Jun 25, 2017 23:54:42 GMT
June 2017
xjlock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by XJlock on Oct 8, 2019 18:34:00 GMT
The obtention of points.
|
|
LukeBarrett
N3
BioWare Dev
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
Posts: 254 Likes: 3,448
inherit
BioWare Dev
324
0
3,448
LukeBarrett
Game Systems Director for Dragon Age
254
August 2016
lukebarrett
|
Post by LukeBarrett on Oct 10, 2019 15:44:56 GMT
I'd be more curious about the specifics of #1. Spending points could be done in a variety of ways and I personally dislike 'tree' shaped ability systems as your level to level choices are pretty limited - Players normally just pick the tree with a super skill at the bottom they want and dump point in it until they get that thing (recent examples: Borderlands3 and WoW Classic).
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 10, 2019 16:03:10 GMT
I'd be more curious about the specifics of #1. Spending points could be done in a variety of ways and I personally dislike 'tree' shaped ability systems as your level to level choices are pretty limited - Players normally just pick the tree with a super skill at the bottom they want and dump point in it until they get that thing (recent examples: Borderlands3 and WoW Classic). I regard that as a natural progression of skill. In a roleplay sense, the more you use certain abilities, the more advanced you become; you're moving from apprentice to master, and being able to use The Big Ones at the furthest branches of the tree is indicative of that. In a gamey sense, it's rewarding the player for investing in the tree, particularly when it might have been at the cost of some other utility early on. If the abilities aren't structured as a tree, I'd be curious as to your ideas of how to gate The Big Ones so players don't have access to overpowered abilities at the beginning of the game. All DA games have had tiers of some kind. DAO's weren't physically structured as a tree, but there was progression through the ability with a really good skill at the end (this is perhaps the most obvious with mages, who usually had access to the apocalyptic AOE spells as top tier). I don't understand why this is a bad thing. It just strikes me as a player working toward a goal, like anything else players work toward in games.
|
|
Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
Posts: 29,425 Likes: 103,909
inherit
ღ N-Special
151
0
103,909
Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
29,425
August 2016
hrungr
Hrungr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Hrungr
18,258
65,767
|
Post by Hrungr on Oct 10, 2019 18:51:51 GMT
I'd be more curious about the specifics of #1. Spending points could be done in a variety of ways and I personally dislike 'tree' shaped ability systems as your level to level choices are pretty limited - Players normally just pick the tree with a super skill at the bottom they want and dump point in it until they get that thing (recent examples: Borderlands3 and WoW Classic). Trying to skirt around DA4 specifically here, but which games out there that have progression systems you like? I seem to remember you mentioning Path of the Exile before (would that be a spiderweb progression?). Something else?
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 18,004
inherit
2309
0
18,004
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,464
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 10, 2019 19:08:43 GMT
For Dragon Age, I think the system they currently have (which is essentially a combo of #1 & #2) works fine. Skill progression through use is fine in games where you're the sole hero running around, but when you have companions - that complicates matters (unless they use a completely different progression system). They'd be all over the map skill-wise depending who you took with you, how often, and what you let them do. Yeah I htink both ME's and DA's systems work fine for their respective series.I think having you have t odo like a specialization quest t oobtain specializations or what I term 'bonus powers' is fine as ewl as long as they're not necessary to complete the game. Kind of like wha tDAI does with the Specializations for the Inquisitor where you have t ocomplete a quest to learn the Rift mage or Necromancer skills. Same with bonus powers in Mass Effect 2 where you have t ocomplete their loyalty missoin if you want t obe able t ouse the bonus power for example to get Garrus's Armour Piercing Ammo and use it on your weapons you have to complete his loyalty mission first.
|
|
inherit
7754
0
Mar 28, 2024 18:54:15 GMT
3,397
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,202
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by biggydx on Oct 10, 2019 19:13:14 GMT
I'd be more curious about the specifics of #1. When I presented the option, the thought in my mind was a skill tree with a pinnacle/top-tier skill at the apex of the tree. Pretty much your bog standard skill tree Spending points could be done in a variety of ways and I personally dislike 'tree' shaped ability systems as your level to level choices are pretty limited I take it this statement is why you've mentioned your enjoyment for PoE? That games got a freakin' skill forest and I was immediately taken aback when I saw how diverse and expansive it was. Definitely great for build-crafting, I'm sure.
|
|
inherit
7754
0
Mar 28, 2024 18:54:15 GMT
3,397
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,202
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by biggydx on Oct 10, 2019 20:06:16 GMT
For Dragon Age, I think the system they currently have (which is essentially a combo of #1 & #2) works fine. Skill progression through use is fine in games where you're the sole hero running around, but when you have companions - that complicates matters (unless they use a completely different progression system). They'd be all over the map skill-wise depending who you took with you, how often, and what you let them do. Yeah I htink both ME's and DA's systems work fine for their respective series.I think having you have t odo like a specialization quest t oobtain specializations or what I term 'bonus powers' is fine as ewl as long as they're not necessary to complete the game. Kind of like wha tDAI does with the Specializations for the Inquisitor where you have t ocomplete a quest to learn the Rift mage or Necromancer skills. Same with bonus powers in Mass Effect 2 where you have t ocomplete their loyalty missoin if you want t obe able t ouse the bonus power for example to get Garrus's Armour Piercing Ammo and use it on your weapons you have to complete his loyalty mission first. I'm gonna take a stab at this and say that one way to have impactful skill progression, without being pigeonholed into only one tree for maximum effect, is to take a route similar to what Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning did. You had three skills trees for the three core archetypal RPG classes (Warrior, Rogue, Mage), but you could mix and match said abilities in order to unlock bonuses that would fit the theme of a mixed class. For example, speccing into both Rogue and Mage skill tree's would give the player a unique type of blink maneuver that - IIRC - left a poison trail behind you. This same type of system is also relatively similar to Mass Effect: Andromeda, though Andromeda's was more passive stat boosts than unique skill additions. I've seen mixed opinions from people with regards to Andromeda's class system (or lack thereof). Combat in Andromeda was pretty well praised, but some of the more hardcore RPG enthusiasts weren't too thrilled about it; based on opinions I've seen in other forums/social media. It's a weird line to walk because if you want to play, as an example, a Battlemage, then you obviously need to have the option to spec into both the mage and warrior skill trees to make such a character/build. But having the capability to make such a build kinda presents the idea that you're already work off a classless system. I think this is where stat attributes are meant to come in, so that the class you pick from the get-go determines your stat growth and - potentially - what skills you're able to take.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 18,004
inherit
2309
0
18,004
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,464
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 10, 2019 20:37:19 GMT
Yeah I htink both ME's and DA's systems work fine for their respective series.I think having you have t odo like a specialization quest t oobtain specializations or what I term 'bonus powers' is fine as ewl as long as they're not necessary to complete the game. Kind of like wha tDAI does with the Specializations for the Inquisitor where you have t ocomplete a quest to learn the Rift mage or Necromancer skills. Same with bonus powers in Mass Effect 2 where you have t ocomplete their loyalty missoin if you want t obe able t ouse the bonus power for example to get Garrus's Armour Piercing Ammo and use it on your weapons you have to complete his loyalty mission first. I'm gonna take a stab at this and say that one way to have impactful skill progression, without being pigeonholed into only one tree for maximum effect, is to take a route similar to what Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning did. You had three skills trees for the three core archetypal RPG classes (Warrior, Rogue, Mage), but you could mix and match said abilities in order to unlock bonuses that would fit the theme of a mixed class. For example, speccing into both Rogue and Mage skill tree's would give the player a unique type of blink maneuver that - IIRC - left a poison trail behind you. This same type of system is also relatively similar to Mass Effect: Andromeda, though Andromeda's was more passive stat boosts than unique skill additions. I've seen mixed opinions from people with regards to Andromeda's class system (or lack thereof). Combat in Andromeda was pretty well praised, but some of the more hardcore RPG enthusiasts weren't too thrilled about it; based on opinions I've seen in other forums/social media. It's a weird line to walk because if you want to play, as an example, a Battlemage, then you obviously need to have the option to spec into both the mage and warrior skill trees to make such a character/build. But having the capability to make such a build kinda presents the idea that you're already work off a classless system. I think this is where stat attributes are meant to come in, so that the class you pick from the get-go determines your stat growth and - potentially - what skills you're able to take. Yeah I can see why som epeople had issues with it. ThoughI still kind of treat the various profiles as classes though just like in the trilogy whereby I'll pick t obe an infiltrator Ryder as I'm planning to be for my next run and I just pick whatever skils I would use and limit myself to whatever skills I would use in that class. But this is based on largely on how the class system works in the trilogy which would be in this case a mix of Comba tand tech skills. TBH the only time I kind of break this rule is inthe weapon tres as I always put points int othem to make my ewapons more effective and for the weight advantages to lighten them for better poewr recharge. As I was thinking of trying a skill set of tactical cloak Cryobeam and Assault turret and seein how well that works when I get there I have used Assaul tturret and |Tactical cloak befoer as main powers I've not used Cryobeam that much.I have used it as a secondary power on occasion but not as part of a main build so I'm interested to see how that will work.for me. But yeah the comba tsystem is quite fun to play around with. I can see why some prefer a moer locked down system though but yo ucan still at least work around tha tby setting your own limits as that is generally what I do, in that as an infiltrator I know I won' t be putting any points whatsoever into the Biotics trees during that playthrough.
|
|
michaeln7
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 445 Likes: 828
inherit
10102
0
Sept 26, 2022 23:28:28 GMT
828
michaeln7
445
April 2018
michaeln7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by michaeln7 on Oct 15, 2019 1:34:47 GMT
The game "Alpha Protocol" does this wonderfully.
You gain EXP, you level up, then you invest points into skills: You finished the first mission in Saudi Arabia, you reach level 3, you level up the Stealth skill to reduce enemy sight range.
You ALSO gain perks by the actions you take: By sneaking around 75 enemies, you get the "Lurker" perk; your movement noise is reduced by 20%.
I find it the ideal blend of roleplaying (points and skills) and reactivity (perks).
Fallout: New Vegas did this as well. Some perks had stat/skill requirements; but others were gained by actions taken, independent of character build or skill values.
I find this intuitive as well, since by playing the way you want, you would ostensibly gain perks relevant to what you would want to do.
If you are a "shoot first, ask never" type, you'll invest in weapon skills and such. Gaining a perk after slaying 1000 enemies that increases all damage dealt by 5% just makes sense. If you are the "make friendship, not conflict" type, you'll invest in social skills and such. Gaining a perk that boosts companion health because you used Persuade in 20 conversations makes sense.
It allows for roleplaying ("I choose to advance this skill because that is what my character would pick") and reactivity ("Because I chose to resolve this heroically, I am more powerful the next time this might happen.")
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
31,065
colfoley
16,485
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Oct 15, 2019 1:40:04 GMT
The game "Alpha Protocol" does this wonderfully. You gain EXP, you level up, then you invest points into skills: You finished the first mission in Saudi Arabia, you reach level 3, you level up the Stealth skill to reduce enemy sight range. You ALSO gain perks by the actions you take: By sneaking around 75 enemies, you get the "Lurker" perk; your movement noise is reduced by 20%. I find it the ideal blend of roleplaying (points and skills) and reactivity (perks). Fallout: New Vegas did this as well. Some perks had stat/skill requirements; but others were gained by actions taken, independent of character build or skill values. I find this intuitive as well, since by playing the way you want, you would ostensibly gain perks relevant to what you would want to do. If you are a "shoot first, ask never" type, you'll invest in weapon skills and such. Gaining a perk after slaying 1000 enemies that increases all damage dealt by 5% just makes sense. If you are the "make friendship, not conflict" type, you'll invest in social skills and such. Gaining a perk that boosts companion health because you used Persuade in 20 conversations makes sense. It allows for roleplaying ("I choose to advance this skill because that is what my character would pick") and reactivity ("Because I chose to resolve this heroically, I am more powerful the next time this might happen.") Odyssey did something similar and I wish they put it in Breakpoint. I really, really like this idea and like the idea of applying it to non combat skills and it answers the contradiction in what I want for levelling.
|
|