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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 31, 2019 2:23:14 GMT
Big open world games - assuming that is what DA4 will be - feature a lot of content. Not all of that content is necessarily worthwhile or enjoyable to an individual player, but it is there to be experienced if they so desire. Often, when a player is finished with the main story, they may be burned out on a game and think they have no reason to try again. A 'hook' would be some small gameplay mechanic that keeps people coming back and engaging with the game. Maybe it is monetised, maybe it isn't.
Games that feature a hook often seem to have far better player retention than those that don't. I saw a - joking - post on CDPRs forums a while back asking if anyone else had noticed that they'd added a 100+ hour fantasy RPG experience to Gwent. I heard Fallout 4 allows base building. DAI had this type of thing - in a way - with Skyhold customisation (although because items just appeared in chests randomly it may not have achieved the level of other games featuring this type of thing).
Acknowledging that we know almost nothing about who we'll be playing in DA4 or what they'll be doing, what kind of 'hook' should Bioware consider implementing? What kind of mechanic would you be interested in seeing?
Implementation is the key, of course. Using fishing as an example;
You can't just have an interaction prompt pop up by a river and an animation showing your character fishing. You have to be able to buy - or make - a fishing rod. Your companions need to chat idly while fishing - fortunately, banter is already a thing - and hopefully your character would be able to interject as well. The game should keep track of how many fish you've caught vs companions and the respective weights. Perhaps there are fishing contests in the villages, towns and cities of the map? Anyway, I hate fishing - but hopefully the question is clear.
For myself - I think I'd like Home building, where I can buy or find in the world supplies with which to make my base feel like a home. Design it, as well, so that each persons home featured a different layout.
Edit: Note - the options above are examples only, so if you want a mini-game that requires in-game items - it doesn't have to be a card game like Gwent - the example is just to give a point of reference.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 31, 2019 3:46:48 GMT
Gwent is honestly the best part of Witcher 3, and if BioWare can come up with an equivalent, I'd be down for it. Especially tracking down players to win their best cards or whatever.
Base building/customisation can also be fun, but I would want it to tie in to the core gameplay. DAI disappointed me in this respect. The garden upgrade was good, nothing else mattered at all.
Collectibles suck on their own, again, there needs to be a gameplay benefit, a compelling reason to pursue them.
Basically, all side content of any kind should give me a well-integrated story/gameplay reason to do it.
Something that could be fun, if they gave us a mabari or other "pet" companion again, would be to have activities/minigames involving it that improve its stats or teach it new abilities.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 31, 2019 3:48:36 GMT
Something that could be fun, if they gave us a mabari or other "pet" companion again, would be to have activities/minigames involving it that improve its stats or teach it new abilities. That is a great idea.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 31, 2019 5:48:12 GMT
1. I do love mini-games and other little side distractions in these big open-world (or open-world- ish) games. I could hardly believe it, but Final Fantasy XV even made me care about fishing. Fishing. Hell, even the fishing in Monster Hunter: World was a nice break every now and then. And I'd hop on a chocobo just to hear that awesome soundtrack. Of course, I'd like to see DA do its own thing, something a little different from these other games. 2. And I'd love to have robust base-building in the game. Design your own home like Fallout or No Man's Sky. Also, the idea of expanding on the camps idea in DA:I could be interesting. Explore the region and find places to build mines, track down seeds and start gardens/farms, set up camps in ideal locations for hunters. Then they do the tedious resource gathering for you and you simply pick up crafting materials every now and then (or shipped to you). As long it's optional (like in those games) for those who don't want to play mad architect. 3. Raids... maybe not so much. In MP - sure. But not for a single player game. Repeatable content like in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey where you're going after different ships, mercenaries, enemy groups I think work better in that format. 4. Collectibles. I like the idea of collectibles, but it has to be more than just bottles on a wall. In MH:W for example you could capture various animals, and then place ~18 of them in your room, feed them, and just let them just run around. It was a nice touch. 5. Ideally I'd like to keep MP & SP as separate as possible. While I had fun tinkering around in MP for a while, I do recognize that MP is not especially popular in DA. And I think trying to tie the two together is just asking for trouble (and more headaches). Remember how Dragon Decor went down?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 31, 2019 6:00:59 GMT
Oof. The Dragon Decor.... *shudder*
Yeah, I definitely want SP and MP kept separate, but I know there are people who love MP and wanted them to have an option.
Whatever it ends up being, though, it should be repeatable and/or changeable. You collect the mosaics, great. Now what? Ideally we'd have a story or setting reason to do "the thing", but having it affect gameplay - in the form of stats or bonuses of some kind - would be optional on a case by case basis, I think.
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Post by apollexander on Oct 31, 2019 7:10:50 GMT
Actually, the early vision of Joplin did sound like the hook:
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Oct 31, 2019 7:59:09 GMT
Multiplayer. I actually do enjoy DAIMP. Bioware has made now 3 good MP games I enjoy.
I voted for the not-even-trivial but I'd say MEAMP and DAIMP connect to their main game nicely. Just some callbacks and it works.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 31, 2019 10:14:40 GMT
I like the idea of customising my stronghold but I found the DAI version rather underwhelming, particularly as I was expecting it to have more impact on the plot as I was anticipating the final showdown taking place at Skyhold rather than back at the Temple. Back in DAA your decision whether or not to improve Vigil's Keep impacted on the final outcome, even if you only learned this in the epilogue (just as how you decided to deploy your troops did as well).
If upgrading the stronghold is to be purely cosmetic then I would like more options dependent on finding the requisite item out in the field, like the banners, rather than simply hunting for elf root, etc. It could even just be dependent on having the requisite funds. I always end up with too much coin and nothing worthwhile to spend it on. Also the possibility of building something that could incorporate some sort of mini game, like a jousting arena or archery range. So it is not there automatically but is something you can work towards if you wish.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Oct 31, 2019 11:04:34 GMT
I went with the "fishing". I like the idea of just sitting around relaxing and chatting with companions while not out saving the world. I really enjoyed stuff like Varric's game of Wicked Grace, and want more of that sort of thing.
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Post by biggydx on Oct 31, 2019 15:04:33 GMT
Collectibles suck on their own, again, there needs to be a gameplay benefit, a compelling reason to pursue them. I think a good way to make collectibles something to obtain is to not only allow them to expand upon the lore in some way, but maybe collecting all of them unlocks a unique cinematic or stylized art piece. To its extreme, it could unlock new areas for you to explore; akin to finding pieces that make up a treasure map.
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Post by cypherj on Oct 31, 2019 17:23:06 GMT
Honestly, if they made the same announcement they made for Jedi Fallen Order; SP game, no lootboxes, no live services, no MP, I'd be all over it.
As for some of the other stuff. I'm a Gwent addict lol. One of the first things I did in both expansions was go looking for the new gwent cards. But gwent is not why I play the game so much. It's just a good game, and the expansions were top quality. All of this stuff is irrelevant if the game isn't good. I'm sure everyone here has played games with everything listed above and put them down quickly because they just weren't good games.
Having said that. One thing that fosters long retention is how easy the game is to mod. As an example, how popular would elder scrolls games be if you couldn't mod them? How long would people play them?
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Post by LogicGunn on Oct 31, 2019 17:23:22 GMT
Home/House/Base building and customisation would be cool, but not to the extent of Fallout 4's base building. Something a little less Sims-esque.
But really, as long as MP isn't required for SP I'm good.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 31, 2019 18:22:02 GMT
Changed my vote to something else as I just remembered Arcomage the mini game in the Might & Magic 7. It was tied into two side-quests, in which players have to obtain a set of Arcomage cards and then play the game in all of the taverns in the game world. When playing the minigame there is an initial set up and then you had to achieve one of two specific victory conditions set out by each tavern. Players take turns to either play a card, or discard it, until one side achieves victory via one of the conditions set out.
I noticed someone else mentioned about playing Wicked Grace as relaxation between quests and I'd really enjoy it if you could actually play the game or some other Thedas specific card game either in your stronghold or in an inn in each region that you visit.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 31, 2019 18:26:37 GMT
Waking up in a carriage, as a prisoner being taken to execution.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 31, 2019 19:23:38 GMT
I was going to say collectibles...(like the Kingslayer files from Wildlands or the...collectibles...from Breakpoint) but then I don't consider them gameplay hooks like the OP was describing.
I was then going to say Gwent like card game...and while I want that...that is some very low hanging fruit.
Then it hit me: Faction Missions/ bounties. These can be fun little live service missions that pop up and offer neat twists on GP. In Breakpoint they give one an excuse to explore the world although I hope they'd be a little more fleshed out for Dragon Age and actually give you points/ rewards unique to each faction rather then the stupid battle rewards.
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 31, 2019 19:24:44 GMT
I was very much a fan of Gwent. If da4 could come up with anything equally good it would be a nice diversion.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 31, 2019 19:35:12 GMT
Waking up in a carriage, as a prisoner being taken to execution. While an interesting start point for our character, I'm not sure how it becomes repeatable to keep players engaged after finishing the story?
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 31, 2019 20:50:56 GMT
Waking up in a carriage, as a prisoner being taken to execution. Without the magic bauble in your hand this time I presume, so no particular reason why anyone would want to save you.
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Post by witchcocktor on Oct 31, 2019 20:54:08 GMT
Build variety. Tons of build variety. That'd keep me occupied.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 31, 2019 20:56:51 GMT
Honestly, if they made the same announcement they made for Jedi Fallen Order; SP game, no lootboxes, no live services, no MP, I'd be all over it. Oh, don't get me wrong - so would I. I'm fairly sure a non-trivial number of the people on this forum would agree with that position as well. Unfortunately, we're not indicative of the majority of people. One of the devs on BSN Prime once noted that a staggeringly small percentage of players actually complete their games even once, let along come back for multiple play throughs. Hence the importance of something to keep the majority of people engaged beyond the main campaign and side quests.
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Post by Tittus on Oct 31, 2019 21:21:42 GMT
Of all the options, the idea I dislike most is the repeatable quest. First because it's an artificial way to make people play the game without ending, and second because it makes the quests themselves feel so unconsequential. I hated the conquer battles of AC:OD.
To this idea, one trait that I only ever found in DAO and DA2 was that once you killed everyone and looted everything, nothing would respawn. Such an wonderful feeling of cleanliness.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 31, 2019 22:29:48 GMT
Waking up in a carriage, as a prisoner being taken to execution. While an interesting start point for our character, I'm not sure how it becomes repeatable to keep players engaged after finishing the story? Tfw no one catches the reference
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Post by githcheater on Oct 31, 2019 23:08:25 GMT
While an interesting start point for our character, I'm not sure how it becomes repeatable to keep players engaged after finishing the story? Tfw no one catches the reference Skyrim or Morrowind?
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Post by Iddy on Oct 31, 2019 23:45:33 GMT
Tfw no one catches the reference Skyrim or Morrowind? Skyrim, kinsman.
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Post by Frost on Nov 1, 2019 0:09:45 GMT
I voted for "Separate MP that has not even trivial impact on SP," although actually I would like no multiplayer at all. I would like them to focus on the core of the game -- main story, side quests, companions, reactivity, etc.
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