Thing is, CD Projekt Red wants to make Cyberpunk 2077 their signature game. They have announced a delay to the end of this year .. Sep 2020. Why? Well, it's a complex game that still needs fixing and polishing, even though it's playable right now.
With Bio's last two game a disaster area, the studio needs to create a crown jewel of a game. I wonder if DA4 is it. What will it be? a traditional aRPG with limited appeal to the player base or more of a looter-shooter ? Will monetization, loot and level progression be the game's achilles' heel?
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
Until CDPR actually makes a new IP I am not sure they will have something considered their signature game, for they are taking years upon years of dedicated fandom and content and making a game out of it. They aren't making something new and trying to attract an audience to that. If CDPR was treated the same was BioWare was with delays or anything else that might not have released a perfect game they would be rushing the game out the door too. I don't see people claiming CDPR is hiding Cyberpunk or the game is complete garbage because they delayed and we as players are owed a game to be released as scheduled. [Edit] Just like I don't consider the games prior to Dragon Age or Mass Effect to be signature games for BioWare [/Edit]
You are automatically assuming that the worst trends in gaming are going to be in the game when even Anthem doesn't have them and EA has shown they are backing off. How about look at what BioWare has included in their games even their last few games and see what they have done. BioWare has made one looter-shooter game, but now every game they are going to make is going to be one. As far as I see it BioWare has never monitized the single player experience of their games even Anthem was purely cosmetics and the prior monitization was purely multiplayer based and at its time was praised as a fair way to do with with Mass Effect 3. Loot and level progression will probably be the games heel, but that has always been the problem with BioWare games. Dragon Age: Origins had a horrendous gear and skill systems.
There is no such thing as a bug free game. You should see the patch notes for The Witcher 3 I think they are on par with what BioWare did with Andromeda and they even had a save game corruption issue as well and if anything it was worse then BioWare's since if you did a manual save with Andromeda at least that save was well saved.
Criticism for the Witcher 3?! You know that’s not allowed on BSN?!
Thing is, CD Projekt Red wants to make Cyberpunk 2077 their signature game. They have announced a delay to the end of this year .. Sep 2020. Why? Well, it's a complex game that still needs fixing and polishing, even though it's playable right now.
With Bio's last two game a disaster area, the studio needs to create a crown jewel of a game. I wonder if DA4 is it. What will it be? a traditional aRPG with limited appeal to the player base or more of a looter-shooter ? Will monetization, loot and level progression be the game's achilles' heel?
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
Until CDPR actually makes a new IP I am not sure they will have something considered their signature game, for they are taking years upon years of dedicated fandom and content and making a game out of it. They aren't making something new and trying to attract an audience to that. If CDPR was treated the same was BioWare was with delays or anything else that might not have released a perfect game they would be rushing the game out the door too. I don't see people claiming CDPR is hiding Cyberpunk or the game is complete garbage because they delayed and we as players are owed a game to be released as scheduled. [Edit] Just like I don't consider the games prior to Dragon Age or Mass Effect to be signature games for BioWare [/Edit]
You are automatically assuming that the worst trends in gaming are going to be in the game when even Anthem doesn't have them and EA has shown they are backing off. How about look at what BioWare has included in their games even their last few games and see what they have done. BioWare has made one looter-shooter game, but now every game they are going to make is going to be one. As far as I see it BioWare has never monitized the single player experience of their games even Anthem was purely cosmetics and the prior monitization was purely multiplayer based and at its time was praised as a fair way to do with with Mass Effect 3. Loot and level progression will probably be the games heel, but that has always been the problem with BioWare games. Dragon Age: Origins had a horrendous gear and skill systems.
There is no such thing as a bug free game. You should see the patch notes for The Witcher 3 I think they are on par with what BioWare did with Andromeda and they even had a save game corruption issue as well and if anything it was worse then BioWare's since if you did a manual save with Andromeda at least that save was well saved.
OK, I'll be clearer.
Do I believe Bio is capable of delivering a game at launch with even a minimum # of bugs? Absolutely not! Do I accept the fact that the game will launch with numerous bugs? Absolutely!
Since you asked. MEA was such a disaster that support for the game stopped after three months and EA dissolved the dev studio in Montreal..... so much for EA backing off. Anthem was a superior disaster, imo, than MEA with mgt incompetency exposed (see Kotaku article).
Many times I posted that Bio needed a home run with ME:A. Did the same with Anthem and of course I was "pinned to the cross" for not holding the view of the blind...... guess what happened both times? My stance is pragmatic based on past behaviour and EA's monetization policy which affects game design.
Today, there may not be a bug free game at launch. Not so in olden days. Unlike most people nowadays, I hold the game publishers to task for selling bug infested games as I hold car dealers/manufacturers when I buy a vehicle. The logic about Bio being better than the Witcher with regards to having bugs with a lesser negative impact is disingenuous at best. That's like saying ford sold me a car with two wheels but Bio is better 'cause they sold me a car with three.
Can Bio develop DA4 as an RPG? sure! How good will it be? Aah... that's the crux of it.
Morpheus: "know what happened happened and that it could not have happened in any other way".
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
Newsflash for you: even the Internet's favorite gaming darling CDPR has and probably still do have some major bugs in all 3 Witcher games and here is another newsflash for you: there will be major bugs in Cyberpunk 2077.
Honestly I've had fewer major bugs with BioWare than with most other AAA developers/publishers.
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Until CDPR actually makes a new IP I am not sure they will have something considered their signature game, for they are taking years upon years of dedicated fandom and content and making a game out of it. They aren't making something new and trying to attract an audience to that. If CDPR was treated the same was BioWare was with delays or anything else that might not have released a perfect game they would be rushing the game out the door too. I don't see people claiming CDPR is hiding Cyberpunk or the game is complete garbage because they delayed and we as players are owed a game to be released as scheduled. [Edit] Just like I don't consider the games prior to Dragon Age or Mass Effect to be signature games for BioWare [/Edit]
You are automatically assuming that the worst trends in gaming are going to be in the game when even Anthem doesn't have them and EA has shown they are backing off. How about look at what BioWare has included in their games even their last few games and see what they have done. BioWare has made one looter-shooter game, but now every game they are going to make is going to be one. As far as I see it BioWare has never monitized the single player experience of their games even Anthem was purely cosmetics and the prior monitization was purely multiplayer based and at its time was praised as a fair way to do with with Mass Effect 3. Loot and level progression will probably be the games heel, but that has always been the problem with BioWare games. Dragon Age: Origins had a horrendous gear and skill systems.
There is no such thing as a bug free game. You should see the patch notes for The Witcher 3 I think they are on par with what BioWare did with Andromeda and they even had a save game corruption issue as well and if anything it was worse then BioWare's since if you did a manual save with Andromeda at least that save was well saved.
Criticism for the Witcher 3?! You know that’s not allowed on BSN?!
It's the truth if CDPR and Witcher 3 fanboys can't handle it, well tough shit...FOR THEM!
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.
Today, there may not be a bug free game at launch. Not so in olden days.
Look up the details on the Baldur's Gate fan patches some day. For as long as BioWare have been making RPGs, they have had bugs in them. I mean, probably Shattered Steel also had bugs but I never played that. Unlike BG, which destroyed more than one of my saves with the notorious Beregost crash bug back in the day.
I absolutely agree that modern game companies often release buggy content and I wish there was a lot less of that going on, but for as long as I've been playing bugs have been a problem to SOME degree. (Maybe there were bug-free games before 1986. I wouldn't know because I wasn't old enough to hold a joystick yet.)
A big part of the problem is that it's much, much easier to find bugs when you have thousands or even millions of players with all types of hardware set-ups playing than it is when you only have your own QA team. I also think that more time at the end of the game creation process should be set aside for testing, but with deadlines and crunch I can see why that doesn't seem to happen as much as it should.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Today, there may not be a bug free game at launch. Not so in olden days.
Look up the details on the Baldur's Gate fan patches some day. For as long as BioWare have been making RPGs, they have had bugs in them. I mean, probably Shattered Steel also had bugs but I never played that. Unlike BG, which destroyed more than one of my saves with the notorious Beregost crash bug back in the day.
I absolutely agree that modern game companies often release buggy content and I wish there was a lot less of that going on, but for as long as I've been playing bugs have been a problem to SOME degree. (Maybe there were bug-free games before 1986. I wouldn't know because I wasn't old enough to hold a joystick yet.)
A big part of the problem is that it's much, much easier to find bugs when you have thousands or even millions of players with all types of hardware set-ups playing than it is when you only have your own QA team. I also think that more time at the end of the game creation process should be set aside for testing, but with deadlines and crunch I can see why that doesn't seem to happen as much as it should.
There were games on NES that had bugs and glitches some were minor and some were major. If you taken by a major one then you were screwed.
My personal mottoes:
1) I would rather be hated for being honest than being loved as a liar.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Look up the details on the Baldur's Gate fan patches some day. For as long as BioWare have been making RPGs, they have had bugs in them. I mean, probably Shattered Steel also had bugs but I never played that. Unlike BG, which destroyed more than one of my saves with the notorious Beregost crash bug back in the day.
I absolutely agree that modern game companies often release buggy content and I wish there was a lot less of that going on, but for as long as I've been playing bugs have been a problem to SOME degree. (Maybe there were bug-free games before 1986. I wouldn't know because I wasn't old enough to hold a joystick yet.)
A big part of the problem is that it's much, much easier to find bugs when you have thousands or even millions of players with all types of hardware set-ups playing than it is when you only have your own QA team. I also think that more time at the end of the game creation process should be set aside for testing, but with deadlines and crunch I can see why that doesn't seem to happen as much as it should.
There were games on NES that had bugs and glitches some were minor and some were major. If you taken by a major one then you were screwed.
I find it hard t obelieve that even in the olden days of gaming on 8/16 bit machines there was never a game with at least one bug in it. Granted things are buggier now but at the same time games are far more sophisticated too.. The good thing now though is that if there aer major bugs that are spotted after the games release they can at least be patched up we just need to be patient and give the people the time they need to do so. MEA is a great example of this as whilst I thought the game was good and I could see a fun game through all the bugs at least imo it was very buggy whereas now it's in a very playable state and I knew that once Bioware got to work and fixed them I knew it would be a game I'd enjoy. I'm glad at least for me I was right.
Last Edit: Jan 18, 2020 18:28:36 GMT by sjsharp2010
Until CDPR actually makes a new IP I am not sure they will have something considered their signature game, for they are taking years upon years of dedicated fandom and content and making a game out of it. They aren't making something new and trying to attract an audience to that. If CDPR was treated the same was BioWare was with delays or anything else that might not have released a perfect game they would be rushing the game out the door too. I don't see people claiming CDPR is hiding Cyberpunk or the game is complete garbage because they delayed and we as players are owed a game to be released as scheduled. [Edit] Just like I don't consider the games prior to Dragon Age or Mass Effect to be signature games for BioWare [/Edit]
You are automatically assuming that the worst trends in gaming are going to be in the game when even Anthem doesn't have them and EA has shown they are backing off. How about look at what BioWare has included in their games even their last few games and see what they have done. BioWare has made one looter-shooter game, but now every game they are going to make is going to be one. As far as I see it BioWare has never monitized the single player experience of their games even Anthem was purely cosmetics and the prior monitization was purely multiplayer based and at its time was praised as a fair way to do with with Mass Effect 3. Loot and level progression will probably be the games heel, but that has always been the problem with BioWare games. Dragon Age: Origins had a horrendous gear and skill systems.
There is no such thing as a bug free game. You should see the patch notes for The Witcher 3 I think they are on par with what BioWare did with Andromeda and they even had a save game corruption issue as well and if anything it was worse then BioWare's since if you did a manual save with Andromeda at least that save was well saved.
OK, I'll be clearer.
Do I believe Bio is capable of delivering a game at launch with even a minimum # of bugs? Absolutely not! Do I accept the fact that the game will launch with numerous bugs? Absolutely!
Since you asked. MEA was such a disaster that support for the game stopped after three months and EA dissolved the dev studio in Montreal..... so much for EA backing off. Anthem was a superior disaster, imo, than MEA with mgt incompetency exposed (see Kotaku article).
Many times I posted that Bio needed a home run with ME:A. Did the same with Anthem and of course I was "pinned to the cross" for not holding the view of the blind...... guess what happened both times? My stance is pragmatic based on past behaviour and EA's monetization policy which affects game design.
Today, there may not be a bug free game at launch. Not so in olden days. Unlike most people nowadays, I hold the game publishers to task for selling bug infested games as I hold car dealers/manufacturers when I buy a vehicle. The logic about Bio being better than the Witcher with regards to having bugs with a lesser negative impact is disingenuous at best. That's like saying ford sold me a car with two wheels but Bio is better 'cause they sold me a car with three.
Can Bio develop DA4 as an RPG? sure! How good will it be? Aah... that's the crux of it.
There are games at release for years that have had 100's of bugs in them, heck any game that people speedrun normally has bugs in it because they are exploiting them to move through the game faster. Again there is no evidence on how Andromeda truly did just internet people pointing out support stopped after they finished squashing a lot of the bugs in the game. That means there was enough people out there that bought the game that warranted them to work on the game for months without having any additional paid support to fix a lot of the issues. The condition Andromeda was in when they finished support was a working product that it should have been in at launch. Yet we really don't know why support stopped you can assume all you want, but unless someone from EA and BioWare says why its just a guess. Heck with all the leaks about the game it shows that nobody really knows why support stopped for there weren't the non-stop articles about it or that Kotaku had an article proclaiming why.
BioWare doesn't need a homerun with their games, because they never hit a homerun with any of their games. Its why they were in such trouble after Jade Empire bombed. People on specific message boards will hold BioWare games to high esteem, but the gaming public a lot of them just don't care. Its why a game like the two Battlefront games have sold over 33 million copies and they are still producing content for Battlefront 2 after the lootbox scandal. Where did EA's montization of Andromeda impact the single player experience in Andromeda? There was nothing that impacted it directly for it was contained in MP just like ME3 and they continued support for the multiplayer by adding new MTX to it after they stopped the patches of the game. The MTX in Anthem were tame for the industry, people said they could get all the MTX cosmetic options with in-game farming and if you didn't get them it didn't impact any of the other parts of the game because it was just part of the look of the Javelins.
I remember problems in my old NES games where I would get stuck or there was one old NES game that I had to use a Game Genie on so I could unlock the weapon I needed to defeat a boss because it dropped only from the boss after it. There has been plenty of bugs, but at the same time the games that are back in that era are far less complex then what there is now, but then a team of a dozen or less people could make a game and release it and people would be happy.
The real crux is "how good will it be to me?" that is the real question for I found Andromeda just fine. It wasn't perfect and a mid to lower point from BioWare, but I have found it more enjoyable then a lot of other games as well. Games aren't uniformly accepted and I wish people would understand that what you might not like or think is bad there are people out there that are enjoying it. It just seems there are not enough people anymore that look at a game and walk away saying "it wasn't for me" instead of "the made it wrong for it didn't appeal to me".
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Do I believe Bio is capable of delivering a game at launch with even a minimum # of bugs? Absolutely not! Do I accept the fact that the game will launch with numerous bugs? Absolutely!
Since you asked. MEA was such a disaster that support for the game stopped after three months and EA dissolved the dev studio in Montreal..... so much for EA backing off. Anthem was a superior disaster, imo, than MEA with mgt incompetency exposed (see Kotaku article).
Many times I posted that Bio needed a home run with ME:A. Did the same with Anthem and of course I was "pinned to the cross" for not holding the view of the blind...... guess what happened both times? My stance is pragmatic based on past behaviour and EA's monetization policy which affects game design.
Today, there may not be a bug free game at launch. Not so in olden days. Unlike most people nowadays, I hold the game publishers to task for selling bug infested games as I hold car dealers/manufacturers when I buy a vehicle. The logic about Bio being better than the Witcher with regards to having bugs with a lesser negative impact is disingenuous at best. That's like saying ford sold me a car with two wheels but Bio is better 'cause they sold me a car with three.
Can Bio develop DA4 as an RPG? sure! How good will it be? Aah... that's the crux of it.
There are games at release for years that have had 100's of bugs in them, heck any game that people speedrun normally has bugs in it because they are exploiting them to move through the game faster. Again there is no evidence on how Andromeda truly did just internet people pointing out support stopped after they finished squashing a lot of the bugs in the game. That means there was enough people out there that bought the game that warranted them to work on the game for months without having any additional paid support to fix a lot of the issues. The condition Andromeda was in when they finished support was a working product that it should have been in at launch. Yet we really don't know why support stopped you can assume all you want, but unless someone from EA and BioWare says why its just a guess. Heck with all the leaks about the game it shows that nobody really knows why support stopped for there weren't the non-stop articles about it or that Kotaku had an article proclaiming why.
BioWare doesn't need a homerun with their games, because they never hit a homerun with any of their games. Its why they were in such trouble after Jade Empire bombed. People on specific message boards will hold BioWare games to high esteem, but the gaming public a lot of them just don't care. Its why a game like the two Battlefront games have sold over 33 million copies and they are still producing content for Battlefront 2 after the lootbox scandal. Where did EA's montization of Andromeda impact the single player experience in Andromeda? There was nothing that impacted it directly for it was contained in MP just like ME3 and they continued support for the multiplayer by adding new MTX to it after they stopped the patches of the game. The MTX in Anthem were tame for the industry, people said they could get all the MTX cosmetic options with in-game farming and if you didn't get them it didn't impact any of the other parts of the game because it was just part of the look of the Javelins.
I remember problems in my old NES games where I would get stuck or there was one old NES game that I had to use a Game Genie on so I could unlock the weapon I needed to defeat a boss because it dropped only from the boss after it. There has been plenty of bugs, but at the same time the games that are back in that era are far less complex then what there is now, but then a team of a dozen or less people could make a game and release it and people would be happy.
The real crux is "how good will it be to me?" that is the real question for I found Andromeda just fine. It wasn't perfect and a mid to lower point from BioWare, but I have found it more enjoyable then a lot of other games as well. Games aren't uniformly accepted and I wish people would understand that what you might not like or think is bad there are people out there that are enjoying it. It just seems there are not enough people anymore that look at a game and walk away saying "it wasn't for me" instead of "the made it wrong for it didn't appeal to me".
Yeah I agreer people just don't know to walk away when it's a game tha tdoesn't appeal to hem ther are plenty of games that don't appeal t ome tbh I just don' t buy them or if I played abnd decided that it's not a game I like I just leave it on the shelf s oto speak a least with Steam type games anyway. I don't expect all games to appeal to me and never would. I do agree with you on Bioware for the most part though I think the ydid com epretty close wit hDAI given he numbe rof GOTY awards it recieved but that's I think a mattre of opinion rather than a fact so it's hard to quantify that.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
More important, is Bio, today, even capable of producing a bug free decent and fun game or will we have to slug it out again for useless loot?
Newsflash for you: even the Internet's favorite gaming darling CDPR has and probably still do have some major bugs in all 3 Witcher games and here is another newsflash for you: there will be major bugs in Cyberpunk 2077.
Honestly I've had fewer major bugs with BioWare than with most other AAA developers/publishers.
M etoo tbh aside from MEA most of the games I've played from Biowaer have been pretty bug free. There is one bug that annoys me in the ME trilogy in that sometimes my Shepard kind of gets stuck in the air and can't move and I have t orelod and another in DAI wher when sometimes I click on an ability the Inquisitor doesn't move to carry that ability out but other than that there's never been anything I could say is too gamebreaking. End of the day I tend to ignore them because I enjoy the games in general too much.
Newsflash for you: even the Internet's favorite gaming darling CDPR has and probably still do have some major bugs in all 3 Witcher games and here is another newsflash for you: there will be major bugs in Cyberpunk 2077.
Honestly I've had fewer major bugs with BioWare than with most other AAA developers/publishers.
M etoo tbh aside from MEA most of the games I've played from Biowaer have been pretty bug free. There is one bug that annoys me in the ME trilogy in that sometimes my Shepard kind of gets stuck in the air and can't move and I have t orelod and another in DAI wher when sometimes I click on an ability the Inquisitor doesn't move to carry that ability out but other than that there's never been anything I could say is too gamebreaking. End of the day I tend to ignore them because I enjoy the games in general too much.
Ah yes, the clipping bug in Mass Effect 2. It still exists just the area that can trigger it is just smaller. I found most of the bugs I encounter in BioWare games are not game impacting so I can look beyond them, but if I started looking I am pretty sure I would notice in more games.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
M etoo tbh aside from MEA most of the games I've played from Biowaer have been pretty bug free. There is one bug that annoys me in the ME trilogy in that sometimes my Shepard kind of gets stuck in the air and can't move and I have t orelod and another in DAI wher when sometimes I click on an ability the Inquisitor doesn't move to carry that ability out but other than that there's never been anything I could say is too gamebreaking. End of the day I tend to ignore them because I enjoy the games in general too much.
Ah yes, the clipping bug in Mass Effect 2. It still exists just the area that can trigger it is just smaller. I found most of the bugs I encounter in BioWare games are not game impacting so I can look beyond them, but if I started looking I am pretty sure I would notice in more games.
Yeah they're not game breaking really as in that case it's just a case of relodaing and because ME2 and 3 autosave pretty frequently you never have to go too far back when it happens. The only real criminal in this area is ME1 because unless you save manually pretty frequently you'll be going back to the beginning of the mission. It's just that one can be a bit annoying as it means you hav et oreload but it's not really enough to stop me enjoying the game though
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2020 19:08:02 GMT by sjsharp2010
Ah yes, the clipping bug in Mass Effect 2. It still exists just the area that can trigger it is just smaller. I found most of the bugs I encounter in BioWare games are not game impacting so I can look beyond them, but if I started looking I am pretty sure I would notice in more games.
Yeah they're not game breaking really as in that case it's just a case of relodaing and because ME2 and 3 autosave pretty frequently you never have to go too far back when it happens. The only real criminal in this area is ME1 because unless you save manually pretty frequently you'll be going back to the beginning of the mission. It's just that one can be a bit annoying as it means you hav et oreload but it's not really enough to stop me enjoying the game though
Did ME1 have bad clipping bugs? I only remember two N7 missions in ME2, one on the toxic green chloride swamp planet and the other one in the mech factory where all the mechs went berserk. In both cases you could get stuck one level above ground and not get back down. And then in ME3 of course, there is that infamous spot on the bridge of the SR2, just behind Joker and EDI, where Shepard gets stuck (I think the Extended Galaxy Map mod fixes this though).
In any case, I wouldn't classify these as engine problems. Seems to me like there are just a few collision boxes missing, so it's more of a level design oversight (a pretty bad on in ME3's case, really don't understand how their QA didn't catch that, it's a spot you walk by after every single mission in the game).
Last Edit: Feb 5, 2020 16:43:40 GMT by AnDromedary
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Yeah they're not game breaking really as in that case it's just a case of relodaing and because ME2 and 3 autosave pretty frequently you never have to go too far back when it happens. The only real criminal in this area is ME1 because unless you save manually pretty frequently you'll be going back to the beginning of the mission. It's just that one can be a bit annoying as it means you hav et oreload but it's not really enough to stop me enjoying the game though
Did ME1 have bad clipping bugs? I only remember two N7 missions in ME2, one on the toxic green chloride swamp planet and the other one in the mech factory where all the mechs went berserk. In both cases you could get stuck one level above ground and not get back. And then in ME3 of course, there is that infamous spot on the bridge of the SR2, just behind Joker and EDI, where Shepard gets stuck (I think the Extended Galaxy Map mod fixes this though).
In any case, I wouldn't classify these as engine problems. Seems to me like there are just a few collision boxes missing, so it's more of a level design oversight (a pretty bad on in ME3's case, really don't understand how their QA didn't catch that, it's a spot you walk by after every single mission in the game).
I don't remembe rspecific ibnstances but I do know I've had them on all 3 games. But I don't consider it gamebreaking I was just pointing ou tthat Frostbite is hardly unique in that.
Post by andydandymandy on Feb 5, 2020 22:37:46 GMT
Star Wars Fallen Order looks incredible so I would be absolutely fine with a Dragon Age game that was made with Unreal 4. BioWare should be free to use whatever engine they feel allows them to create content for their games at a pace and ease that also allows them to polish that content and make it better (instead of all the problems we've all read about with Frostbite).
Star Wars Fallen Order looks incredible so I would be absolutely fine with a Dragon Age game that was made with Unreal 4. BioWare should be free to use whatever engine they feel allows them to create content for their games at a pace and ease that also allows them to polish that content and make it better (instead of all the problems we've all read about with Frostbite).
I'm not sure Fallen Order makes the best case for U4.
Granted, indoors, and scenes with a lot of metal or stone (which are easier to deal with) it does a great job with, the main character models looked good, and it had some nice particle fx. But outdoors, and especially areas with vegetation, were not that great. Heavy-handed distance fog, lower res textures and low poly environments were pretty apparent, and I ran the game maxed out on the PC. Now, that could be just FO's implementation, but to compare, here's Battlefront II.
Star Wars Fallen Order looks incredible so I would be absolutely fine with a Dragon Age game that was made with Unreal 4. BioWare should be free to use whatever engine they feel allows them to create content for their games at a pace and ease that also allows them to polish that content and make it better (instead of all the problems we've all read about with Frostbite).
I'm not sure Fallen Order makes the best case for U4.
Granted, indoors, and scenes with a lot of metal or stone (which are easier to deal with) it does a great job with, the main character models looked good, and it had some nice particle fx. But outdoors, and especially areas with vegetation, were not that great. Heavy-handed distance fog, lower res textures and low poly environments were pretty apparent, and I ran the game maxed out on the PC. Now, that could be just FO's implementation, but to compare, here's Battlefront II.
Yeah, have to agree with our Twitter Overlord.
Fallen Order had great looking character models and some jaw dropping cinematics but the wilderness areas looked positively 2012 in implementation.
Both MEA and DAI had far superior environments, in my view. And like Hrungr, I was 2560x1440 with everything on max (epic, I think it was called).
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Star Wars Fallen Order looks incredible so I would be absolutely fine with a Dragon Age game that was made with Unreal 4. BioWare should be free to use whatever engine they feel allows them to create content for their games at a pace and ease that also allows them to polish that content and make it better (instead of all the problems we've all read about with Frostbite).
I'm not sure Fallen Order makes the best case for U4.
Granted, indoors, and scenes with a lot of metal or stone (which are easier to deal with) it does a great job with, the main character models looked good, and it had some nice particle fx. But outdoors, and especially areas with vegetation, were not that great. Heavy-handed distance fog, lower res textures and low poly environments were pretty apparent, and I ran the game maxed out on the PC. Now, that could be just FO's implementation, but to compare, here's Battlefront II.
The problem I have with the "game engine debate" is that people will point to another developer and go "see look how great this looks", but forget it would be BioWare developing the game and there is a high chance that it won't look like those other games and run face first into other issues. I can just imagine how people would have used Fallen Order as how bad Frostbite if it had the lag and stuttering between zones like it did on Unreal. Instead its "pay no attention to that problem, its a great engine". So if that is a problem with Unreal 4 the question I ask would BioWare be able to avoid that latency and lag issue or would it be a common problem in the game? I highly doubt it, BioWare works fine with an engine that is fully developed, but if there are quirks or problems they are going to run into those problems. Just like other developers have been able to avoid the problems BioWare seems to have with Frostbite and frankly so many games have RPG elements I don't believe for a moment the claims that Frostbite won't work for a RPG and its just what the rumours have blossomed into instead of BioWare needing more time to develop tools.
The problem I have with the "game engine debate" is that people will point to another developer and go "see look how great this looks", but forget it would be BioWare developing the game and there is a high chance that it won't look like those other games and run face first into other issues. I can just imagine how people would have used Fallen Order as how bad Frostbite if it had the lag and stuttering between zones like it did on Unreal. Instead its "pay no attention to that problem, its a great engine". So if that is a problem with Unreal 4 the question I ask would BioWare be able to avoid that latency and lag issue or would it be a common problem in the game? I highly doubt it, BioWare works fine with an engine that is fully developed, but if there are quirks or problems they are going to run into those problems. Just like other developers have been able to avoid the problems BioWare seems to have with Frostbite and frankly so many games have RPG elements I don't believe for a moment the claims that Frostbite won't work for a RPG and its just what the rumours have blossomed into instead of BioWare needing more time to develop tools.
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BioWare has had some amazing bugs in their games no matter what engine they used, long before they got to using Frostbite. And some of those bugs look like the actual thought behind the code was flawed, not the code itself, let alone the engine. Some examples:
BG2: the timers of Jaheira's romance where sometimes based on time passed in the game world and sometimes on real time. It should be clear before implementation that this would very likely lead to trouble. It was fixed by a fan mod that BioWare eventually integrated into their game.
ME3MP (PC): the AI's accurracy versus moving targets was based on the host's frame rate, which BioWare's apparently console-centric developers had assumed to be always 30 FPS. This "30 FPS hardcoded" school of thought would later return in DAI's cut scenes on PC.
DAI: the banter bug. BioWare capitulated to it and added manually activated banter to Trespasser. Oh, and that key bug in MP that took a while because everyone was on vacation.
MEAMP: Single player save games affected multiplayer difficulty in some way, I forgot the details. It was fixed fairly quickly.
Anthem: Weapons of a certain type could be generated with random bonuses for weapons of another type, like a pistol with a bonus to sniper damage.
I think it's quite unfair to single out Frostbite like that. Many of their "greatest hits" don't seem to be engine specific.
BioWare has had some amazing bugs in their games no matter what engine they used, long before they got to using Frostbite. And some of those bugs look like the actual thought behind the code was flawed, not the code itself, let alone the engine. Some examples:
BG2: the timers of Jaheira's romance where sometimes based on time passed in the game world and sometimes on real time. It should be clear before implementation that this would very likely lead to trouble. It was fixed by a fan mod that BioWare eventually integrated into their game.
ME3MP (PC): the AI's accurracy versus moving targets was based on the host's frame rate, which BioWare's apparently console-centric developers had assumed to be always 30 FPS. This "30 FPS hardcoded" school of thought would later return in DAI's cut scenes on PC.
DAI: the banter bug. BioWare capitulated to it and added manually activated banter to Trespasser. Oh, and that key bug in MP that took a while because everyone was on vacation.
MEAMP: Single player save games affected multiplayer difficulty in some way, I forgot the details. It was fixed fairly quickly.
Anthem: Weapons of a certain type could be generated with random bonuses for weapons of another type, like a pistol with a bonus to sniper damage.
I think it's quite unfair to single out Frostbite like that. Many of their "greatest hits" don't seem to be engine specific.
Agreed. Not to mention the problem with Mass Effect 2 when if you touched a wall while in several missions you would start to be elevated into the air and there was no way to undo it without loading an old save. They did reduce the range of it happening, but it still exists to this day in the game that issue was done on Unreal 3. There was also clipping bugs in Mass Effect 2 and 3 in the cockpit of the Normandy where you would get stuck on a tile on the floor.
ME3MP (PC): the AI's accurracy versus moving targets was based on the host's frame rate, which BioWare's apparently console-centric developers had assumed to be always 30 FPS. This "30 FPS hardcoded" school of thought would later return in DAI's cut scenes on PC.
It's kinda amazing how FPS can have an input on AI and balance coding. I remember when Destiny 2's Forsaken DLC dropped, and the Raid exotic (One Thousand Voices) would do more damage if the FPS was higher.
DAI: the banter bug. BioWare capitulated to it and added manually activated banter to Trespasser. Oh, and that key bug in MP that took a while because everyone was on vacation.
I still remember the vast salt field that accumulated in the Official Forums to this day.
EDIT: Back on subject: I think the prevailing problems with the engine largely had to do with BioWare needing to make all the assets to support an open-world RPG from scratch, in an engine that wasn't built for such a thing. In some ways, they're running blind in terms of how effective - and optimized - certain programmed elements will function. It also seems that, based on developer comments, basic operations that someone would like to employ in Frostbite takes significantly longer than other competitors in the game engine department. These same operations would also be more prone to failure.
I don't think there's anything wrong with saying no engine comes without flaws, or that developers simply didn't take the effort in squashing certain bugs; Unreal has its own fair share of issues. There's also the notion of bad developmental direction/design as well. Such statements can also exist with the idea that Frostbite, by and large, posed as a significant enough impediment to BioWare's game development, and likely needed to be altered to better serve the RPG genre before being brought into play.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition Prime Posts: 13152 Posts: 6,272 Likes: 9,372