inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,652
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Nov 23, 2019 16:25:34 GMT
The Inquisitor does this at the end of WPHW and it's just so, so dumb. The circumstances when you finally fight him during "Doom upon all the world" aren't any easier, so what is the difference?
In fact, the conversation at the war table before heading to the Arbor Wilds sounded like the idea was to finish him off there. Like it was the perfect time and place. Then Corypheus shows up after you have already defeated Samson/Calpernia and taken the Well of Sorrows, with no army to back him up because they're busy fighting the Inquisition.
And what do you do? "Oh no, it's Corypheus! Run! Run! RUUUUUUNNNN!!!!"
It's one of those moments when things happen for no logical reason other than plot convenience.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Sept 14, 2023 6:08:41 GMT
9,897
Ieldra
4,771
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Nov 23, 2019 17:57:12 GMT
You just discovered that Corypheus has an archdemon's ability to survive, and at this point you do not know how to kill him. That's why you run, and that's why the following mission involves finding a way to kill him.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 18,004
inherit
2309
0
18,004
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,464
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 23, 2019 19:53:28 GMT
You just discovered that Corypheus has an archdemon's ability to survive, and at this point you do not know how to kill him. That's why you run, and that's why the following mission involves finding a way to kill him. Yeah the ydidn't know how t okill him until the Well lof Sorrows tells them all they knwe at either of those times when they encounter him before was that he had some sort of immortality similar to Archdemons. S oeven if the ymanaged t okill him h ewouldn't have necessaril ystayed dead and if Coruy had managed t ocaptuer or kill the Inqusitor Corypheus would have won so the ycouldn't tak ethat chance because unlik eCory the Inquisitor doesn't have immortality. At least in the purposes of the story. When you dfo fina;ll ynail him in the Doom quest you know ho wto del with him then so it's just a case of pulling it off.
|
|
inherit
9583
0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
803
warden
1,158
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by warden on Nov 23, 2019 20:08:48 GMT
I mean, he is quite ugly, I would ran off too you know.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 839 Likes: 1,155
inherit
1451
0
1,155
xerrai
839
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Nov 23, 2019 22:57:47 GMT
You just discovered that Corypheus has an archdemon's ability to survive, and at this point you do not know how to kill him. That's why you run, and that's why the following mission involves finding a way to kill him. Pretty much this. If conventional killing wasn't an option the best the Inquisition could do to Coryphaeus is imprison him somehow. Meaning he would have to defeated, captured and basically imprisoned for all time. Which is going to take an incredible amount of resources. This is all while making sure he doesn't kill himself so he can hop to the next blighted body. I mean, there's a reason the wardens opted to seal him in a blood magic tomb for hundreds of years... Honestly we should just be glad that created a big weak point by bonding to that red lyrium dragon so we can disrupt his abilities.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Nov 24, 2019 5:04:07 GMT
You just discovered that Corypheus has an archdemon's ability to survive, and at this point you do not know how to kill him. That's why you run, and that's why the following mission involves finding a way to kill him. The Inquisitor also learned in that moment the reason why Hawke and Varric had been so certain that they killed Corypheus before... because they actually had, they just didn't know about his ability to body-hop into other blighted people upon his death.
As the Inquisitor has no idea how to stop this transfer from taking place, it makes no sense to try to fight him in this moment because even if we kill him, he'll simply respawn again. It made more sense to retreat and save our strength, rather than exhaust our forces trying to kill him, as we'd only end up losing by attrition.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Mar 28, 2024 16:27:05 GMT
26,627
gervaise21
10,745
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Nov 24, 2019 9:10:01 GMT
For me the biggest plot hole was the whole red lyrium dragon idea being connected to his ability to body hop. Now it is never made clear exactly when he split his soul with the dragon. Was it back in ancient times? In which case why no mention of the dragon on the Grey Warden records of that time?
You see if he only joined with the dragon after his awakening then clearly he was able to body hop before then. It didn't interfere with his ability to body hop once split with the dragon as he did so in front of our eyes in the Arbor Wilds. Then when his dragon is killed his essence returns to him, which you clearly see.
However, in fact we don't actually kill him. Instead we throw him into the Fade where it is assumed he perished through his own self doubt and loss of certainty (this explanation being given in WoT2 as a reason why no trace of him could be found in the Fade subsequently). Thus, although killing his dragon certainly helped demoralising him, it wasn't the reason we were told we needed to kill it. Nowhere was it suggested to us that destroying his self belief and chucking him into the Fade was the way he could be permanently killed. So why did the Inquisitor suddenly come up with the idea, particularly if they didn't drink from the Well?
I think if there had been no dragon involved then it might have made sense to capture him at the Well of Sorrows but the dragon clearly complicated matters and would have attempted to free him wherever we took him thereafter. So from that perspective, retreating until we had worked out how to deal with his dragon did make sense.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,652
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Nov 25, 2019 0:53:05 GMT
For me the biggest plot hole was the whole red lyrium dragon idea being connected to his ability to body hop. Now it is never made clear exactly when he split his soul with the dragon. Was it back in ancient times? In which case why no mention of the dragon on the Grey Warden records of that time? You see if he only joined with the dragon after his awakening then clearly he was able to body hop before then. It didn't interfere with his ability to body hop once split with the dragon as he did so in front of our eyes in the Arbor Wilds. Then when his dragon is killed his essence returns to him, which you clearly see. However, in fact we don't actually kill him. Instead we throw him into the Fade where it is assumed he perished through his own self doubt and loss of certainty (this explanation being given in WoT2 as a reason why no trace of him could be found in the Fade subsequently). Thus, although killing his dragon certainly helped demoralising him, it wasn't the reason we were told we needed to kill it. Nowhere was it suggested to us that destroying his self belief and chucking him into the Fade was the way he could be permanently killed. So why did the Inquisitor suddenly come up with the idea, particularly if they didn't drink from the Well? I think if there had been no dragon involved then it might have made sense to capture him at the Well of Sorrows but the dragon clearly complicated matters and would have attempted to free him wherever we took him thereafter. So from that perspective, retreating until we had worked out how to deal with his dragon did make sense. I think it is actually pretty simple. Corypheus can only hop into the body of tainted creatures, so the dragon usually is his only option. The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he?
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 18,004
inherit
2309
0
18,004
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,464
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 25, 2019 1:27:21 GMT
For me the biggest plot hole was the whole red lyrium dragon idea being connected to his ability to body hop. Now it is never made clear exactly when he split his soul with the dragon. Was it back in ancient times? In which case why no mention of the dragon on the Grey Warden records of that time? You see if he only joined with the dragon after his awakening then clearly he was able to body hop before then. It didn't interfere with his ability to body hop once split with the dragon as he did so in front of our eyes in the Arbor Wilds. Then when his dragon is killed his essence returns to him, which you clearly see. However, in fact we don't actually kill him. Instead we throw him into the Fade where it is assumed he perished through his own self doubt and loss of certainty (this explanation being given in WoT2 as a reason why no trace of him could be found in the Fade subsequently). Thus, although killing his dragon certainly helped demoralising him, it wasn't the reason we were told we needed to kill it. Nowhere was it suggested to us that destroying his self belief and chucking him into the Fade was the way he could be permanently killed. So why did the Inquisitor suddenly come up with the idea, particularly if they didn't drink from the Well? I think if there had been no dragon involved then it might have made sense to capture him at the Well of Sorrows but the dragon clearly complicated matters and would have attempted to free him wherever we took him thereafter. So from that perspective, retreating until we had worked out how to deal with his dragon did make sense. I think it is actually pretty simple. Corypheus can only hop into the body of tainted creatures, so the dragon usually is his only option. The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? It's what the grey wardens could never figuer out whic hwas why he was imprisoned in the first place. Als oultimately whjy the Inqusitor in theend jus tsen thim directly into the fade at the end of the game as he won't be able to jump bodies from there
|
|
inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Nov 25, 2019 1:51:17 GMT
The Archdemon's soul clashes with the Warden's, destroying both, if I recall right. Darkspawn don't have a soul and dead Grey Wardens probably not as well. My guess is that at least Corypheus himself only needs tainted flesh to reform his body if he is blown up. At the Temple of Mythal, he uses a Warden corpse and could have done so at the conclave as well and the 'condition' of the Warden corpses (most certainly fleshy chunks) apparently did not matter. The murky thing is Larius/Janeka. They were both alive and did not cause that "soul clash", though Larius was already on his calling and probably closer to a usual ghoul than a Warden.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Nov 25, 2019 5:17:55 GMT
The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? Well, there's a simple answer to that - Corypheus is NOT an Archdemon.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Mar 28, 2024 16:27:05 GMT
26,627
gervaise21
10,745
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Nov 25, 2019 9:01:57 GMT
The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? I think Mythal explained this. "The soul cannot be forced on the unwilling." This is why the Arch-demon attempting a jump to a Grey Warden destroys them both because it doesn't control their mind which resists the intrusion. By contrast Corypheus can control the mind of Grey Wardens and so they are not resisting him but willingly allow it. I think it is actually pretty simple. Corypheus can only hop into the body of tainted creatures, so the dragon usually is his only option.
Except Morrigan stated that there was no limit to his range for body hoping, thus implying that even if the Grey Warden was some miles away, he could still jump there. It would seem he certainly can control which body he jumped to or why doesn't he automatically always jump to the dragon?
What I found rather harder to explain was why he was able to maintain the appearance of the host when he jumped to Janika/Larius but promptly broke out of the shell of the warden he swapped to in the Arbor Wilds. The latter seemed more like what the Arch-demon does and something of an automatic process, whereas the former was more like spirit possession where the form of the host is retained unless pressed to reveal themselves. Actually this might explain why he did not want to jump to the dragon as he would have wanted it to remain a dragon and not simply become a shell around him that ultimately would be transformed into his own form.
I'd still like to know how the Inquisitor suddenly had the inspiration to cast him into the Fade when absolutely no mention had been made that this might be a permanent solution to his problem. On the face of it, considering that is where Corypheus had been wanting to get to, you'd think it would be the last place you would want to send him.
Mind you I found it problematic that we were able to physically exist in the Fade. I must assume it had to do with the fact that the Nightmare Demon and Mythal had enough control of that section that it had become permanent in appearance and thus our perception of it as more solid structure allowed us to remain there. (Even if the anchor explained our ability it did not explain why our companions, Morrigan and Kieran were able to remain there without problem).
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,073
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,791
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Nov 25, 2019 15:30:39 GMT
Would jumping to the dragon actually be useful? If he's killed in the dragon body, isn't that it for him?
|
|
inherit
making pour decisions
8164
0
3,976
Chenowl Blanc
sip sip hooray!
1,427
May 2017
dreamowl
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
traumeule
|
Post by Chenowl Blanc on Nov 25, 2019 16:00:52 GMT
We all learned from Harry Potter that you need to destroy all Horcruxes before you kill Voldemort. Sorry, I'll let myself out in a bit. But honestly, you just learned that conventional killing doesn't do anything - so why waste your energy in trying again?
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 839 Likes: 1,155
inherit
1451
0
1,155
xerrai
839
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Nov 25, 2019 20:40:24 GMT
I don't know why the Inquisitor decided to send Coryphaeus to the fade either but I'm guessing they hoped the opened rift within him would destroy him or that he would die while wandering the fade and presumably getting attacked by demons. I guess the assumption was if he didn't die instantly from the rift while his resurrection ability was disrupted, he would be in a confined realm where there would feasibly be no viable blighted resurrection candidate around.
Unless, y'know, there are blighted things in the fade...like the warden the Inquisitor possibly stranded there...or whatever is in the black city...
Admittedly whoever the Inquisitor left in the fade is probably dead, and whatever 'dark' thing the magisters found in the black city is presumably behind another set of countermeasures but still.....I hope the black city has anti-soul-transfer wards. Or Corypheaus died before his resurrection ability was re-enabled. Or his resurrection ability was substantially weakened to the point where the blighted creatures has to be nearby for him to be reborn.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,652
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Nov 26, 2019 1:24:43 GMT
The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? Well, there's a simple answer to that - Corypheus is NOT an Archdemon. Don't you have any Solas sugarcoating to be doing elsewhere?
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Nov 26, 2019 2:43:40 GMT
Well, there's a simple answer to that - Corypheus is NOT an Archdemon. Don't you have any Solas sugarcoating to be doing elsewhere? Iddy, you seem to be way more obsessed with unnecessarily attacking me than I could ever be about Solas I did nothing to deserve your mockery or your belittling of my interest in discussing story and lore. I've made a completely appropriate observation - it's you who are now discussing something else than the actual topic.
|
|
saandrig
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,362 Likes: 6,912
Member is Online
inherit
2719
0
Member is Online
6,912
saandrig
3,362
January 2017
saandrig
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by saandrig on Nov 26, 2019 8:56:10 GMT
The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? I am probably not up to speed on all of the DA lore since I play the games and don't read up much outside of them, but I was under the impression that Archdemons are dragons/ancient gods, found and corrupted by the darkspawn. Corypheus is different in the sense that he is very likely one of the very first Blight carriers and perhaps even the source of the original taint. Whatever he encountered in the Black City might have not just tainted him, but changed him completely. It's possible there was no taint, but the presence of the Magisters created something new that made them "patient zero" cases. Which might mean that every magister from the Black City has much more control and power over the Blight and it's victims than any other tainted creature down the line.
As for the "throw Cory in the Fade", I found it weird, but then I explained it to myself as the only way the Inquisitor could stop Corypheus's reincarnations for the time being. Cory's body is crushed and his essence/spirit is thrown in the Fade without a tainted body nearby. So no physical resurrection until a tainted creature goes physically in the Fade (if it's even possible) or someone somehow finds and brings whatever is left of Cory back to the physical world. Which probably means Corypheus is alive and existing in the Fade with an unknown level of consciousness. Which brings me to the question - if Solas plans to unite the Fade and the physical world back together, would Cory be able to come back? Or just the elves are meant to survive this Armageddon and all humans/tainted creatures, etc. will be gone?
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,464 Likes: 18,004
inherit
2309
0
18,004
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,464
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 2, 2019 20:50:45 GMT
The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? I am probably not up to speed on all of the DA lore since I play the games and don't read up much outside of them, but I was under the impression that Archdemons are dragons/ancient gods, found and corrupted by the darkspawn. Corypheus is different in the sense that he is very likely one of the very first Blight carriers and perhaps even the source of the original taint. Whatever he encountered in the Black City might have not just tainted him, but changed him completely. It's possible there was no taint, but the presence of the Magisters created something new that made them "patient zero" cases. Which might mean that every magister from the Black City has much more control and power over the Blight and it's victims than any other tainted creature down the line.
As for the "throw Cory in the Fade", I found it weird, but then I explained it to myself as the only way the Inquisitor could stop Corypheus's reincarnations for the time being. Cory's body is crushed and his essence/spirit is thrown in the Fade without a tainted body nearby. So no physical resurrection until a tainted creature goes physically in the Fade (if it's even possible) or someone somehow finds and brings whatever is left of Cory back to the physical world. Which probably means Corypheus is alive and existing in the Fade with an unknown level of consciousness. Which brings me to the question - if Solas plans to unite the Fade and the physical world back together, would Cory be able to come back? Or just the elves are meant to survive this Armageddon and all humans/tainted creatures, etc. will be gone?
I htin khe jus twants th eelves t ocom ebac khe doesn' tcaer much fo ranything else s oall th edarkspawn an dal tha twi l llikely be dead or so he plans. We'll only know fo rsuer when the next game comes out though
|
|
Blaze
N3
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
Posts: 893 Likes: 952
inherit
1150
0
Mar 26, 2023 11:03:39 GMT
952
Blaze
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
893
Aug 23, 2016 12:15:31 GMT
August 2016
blaze
|
Post by Blaze on Dec 3, 2019 16:34:18 GMT
one small difference: in doom upon all the world, he's not the only one that has a dragon. The bigger plot hole is the fact that he can possess the body of Grey Wardens. Archdemons can't do this (that's why the sacrifice works), so why can he? more of a mystery than a plot hole. i am curious to how is that possible for him to do that.
|
|