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Post by Heimdall on Dec 24, 2019 20:43:18 GMT
A slightly rambling video I made describing the sort of dual protagonist situation I’d like to see in DA4. This is my last video of the year.
How would you like to see dual protagonists handled, if even?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2019 20:46:18 GMT
I’d prefer just the Inquisitor, but if we do have a dual protagonist I’d either want them to be the focus or both split evenly.
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 24, 2019 21:32:06 GMT
Myself I would like to see dual the new protagonist being the main and the old taking a back seat since he/she knows Solas aiding the new protagonist and new party members.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 24, 2019 22:33:31 GMT
Despite the physical changes, I'd honestly prefer the Inquisitor only, but being used to getting to customize a whole new PC, I do want a new protagonist too. I think the dual with focus on the new protagonist greatly preferable to having the old PC come back as a fixed character. Of course, this leaves little room for the two to interact, because you can't yank the player out of a playable character to have this sequence and have it go smoothly. Plus, this does give us a whole new roster and....possibilities.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 24, 2019 23:47:12 GMT
Sorry but new game new PC. I still like this rule because Dragon Age isn´t Mass Effect. Its the story of severall heroes and not one. DA 4 isn´t only about Solas.
Also i believe that after these many years of hiatus a returning protagonist won´t work. DA 4 must be comprehensible and easy to follow for all players.
Last but not least i don´t think that Bioware can handle all of Inquisitor romances well. I fear in this case Dorian and Solas get much of the screenlight but all other romances not that much. And new romances also have to included. So on top of the 8 already existing Bioware have to design atleast 6 new romances (2 hetero 2 bisexual and 2 gay companions)
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Post by smudjygirl on Dec 25, 2019 0:42:59 GMT
I honestly hate the idea of dual protagonists most of all. If they bring the Inquisitor back then they are accepting their importance to Solas' story and breaking the "new protagonist every game" rule. And if Solas is a big antagonist then the new PC could be overshadowed (just as i fear they would be being an agent of the Inquisition). It could also be so convoluted having two characters. Why play as a grunt if the Inquisitor is going to have all the pay-off?
On the understanding that Solas would be *the* antagonist of the game, I'd prefer the Inquisitor to come back. Between how powerful Solas is and the lack of understanding a new PC would have on his goals, I think it would be better to have the Inquisitor. Solas has no reason to not just kill new people who get too much in his way. Plus I feel like he challenged them in the end.
If Solas is more in the background, a new PC is A-ok. Still strange to just have them stumble on Solas' plot and him not just end anyone who gets too much of a problem. It still doesn't make sense to me, but whatever. A new PC gives us a better chance of getting to know Tevinter and so on, and I look forward to that. My biggest worry about that is that my character will know less about the enemy than * I* do and that could be jarring. I don't want to hear someone I have played as or went on the journey with my character telling me what I already know.
I have found in all games that they rely a lot on what previous players know and feel. Why should anyone care about the HOF or Hawke? Only people who played Origins/2 would have got Morrigan's "Well, well, well. What have we here?" line. And they'd have no reason to be anything but politely indifferent to her, but I found the options with her to be "too friendly" and "too hostile". I love returning characters and cameos, but I found the screen time and involvement old companions received didn't feel natural and I felt disconnected to them. They are supposed to be my character's friends, but I'm seeing a new side of them as each PC and it felt weird.
(I chose Inquisitor only because that would be my first choice)
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Post by colfoley on Dec 25, 2019 1:02:06 GMT
While conversations around these boards have certainly allowed me to be ambivalent and not afraid of whatever BioWare does...I mean bit torn even on this...but I settled for new protag only.
There is still a lot of issues bringing the Inquisitor forward. I know they can do it if they choose to go down that route...but it still seems slightly problematic with me. This is just my personal preference though...and as much as I want a dual protagonist that might be the worse of both worlds to do properly and satisfy anyways so really the best thing for them to do from a non personal perspective would be to have either all Inquisitor or all New Character.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 2:58:15 GMT
If I had my druthers, I'd want the Inquisitor back. I don't see that happening, for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death, but I still hope they have an appearance if not a full role.
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Post by yogsothoth on Dec 25, 2019 4:17:57 GMT
New protagonist only. I don't want the Inquisitor playable again for a myriad of reasons.
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Post by melbella on Dec 25, 2019 4:50:18 GMT
Inquisitor to deal with Solas, new pc for any/everything else.
If the main focus of the game is Tevinter v Qun, the Inquisitor doesn't need to play a role in that, certainly not a big one. If the main focus is Solas, the Inquisitor needs to have a big role for the conflict to have any meaning beyond "save the world from the big bad" again.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Dec 25, 2019 9:41:53 GMT
I'd like a brand new protag personally, fresh eyes to look at the narrative
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 25, 2019 11:11:36 GMT
I don't see dual protagonists or even the Inquisitor returning to be a good idea for the development of the game. It might be something that is nice and it can be fan theories into existence as a good idea, but there are too many variables with the status of the characters from Inquisition that would make it into another Mass Effect 3 and how returning characters were handled there. Combine that with scope creep where BioWare is expected to have full character development for minor returns and the expectations of something like a romance and again the expectation that people would want an Inquisitor that romanced Solas to have pretty much a completely unique experience.
Game development is about casting a wide net anymore because they do need to sell enough copies to justify an $80+ million dollar budget and how easy it is for people to call for a boycott over anything BioWare does because it isn't what they exactly want. Just makes me think that anything BioWare does would be only a light touch and wouldn't really amount to what people would want to see. Again think of how all the returning characters in Mass Effect 3 and how so few of them really had a significant impact on the story. That was due to how many of them could die and from what I recall with Dragon Age: Inquisition a lot of the characters had the chance of doing something significant would to me would rule out them joining the party. Its like the time between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 where there were so many comments about how BioWare had to make a person's favorite character return in Mass Effect 3 when they initially said it was only going to be a few my guess the ones that could be on your team plus Miranda. So that would have just the Inquisitor and Solas really returning due to everything else that could happen (it has been years since I played Inquisition so my memory might be off on that).
I think just having Solas return allows BioWare to take the game in directions where they are not trying to spend a lot of time trying to incorporate fan theories or expectations into the game and focus more on making a good game instead of what players are currently saying what they want. Now if BioWare does take the route where they are giving more fan service I can see people enjoying that for its what they want, but I can also see potential backlash for some people feel their fan service or what they enjoyed being ignored. That feeling in this current climate is more active then ever from what I have seen with The Rise of Skywalker and how JJ Abrams decided to go back and try and wave his lightsaber to make the movie. The movie looks to be a success, but it also seems to have not gotten the same kind of response that a really well made movie would have gotten either. Its the problem with sequels and franchises is to know where to make the cuts and I think the easiest one is to set expectations before the product is released so people know what to expect and won't build up how awesome their Inquisitor is going to be and can talk Solas out of their plans because they had a romantic or a deep friendship and then to rage because they got neither.
Specifically with the dual protagonist the only way that might add something to the game is if they were in a relationship with Solas and otherwise I could see it not really feeling that different between the Inquisitor and a new protagonist for BioWare like to make their protagonists a blank slate so the player feels they are building the protagonist themselves.
Going back and re-reading this I noticed I am really negative, but its just how I see audience reaction anymore for anything. If BioWare goes the route you want and it makes you happy I will be happy you enjoyed it. It might not be for me, but not everything is.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 25, 2019 12:09:26 GMT
I'd like DA4 to have a new protagonist only, but if we're being honest, I'm willing to let there be a dual-protagonist situation if we control the Inquisitor during segments based more on narrative than on gameplay, particularly if Solas is involved in these same segments.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 25, 2019 22:31:45 GMT
but there are too many variables with the status of the characters from Inquisition that would make it into another Mass Effect 3 and how returning characters were handled there This is only true if you think that, along with the Inquisitor, everyone related to them has to be brought back or mentioned in some way. That is not the case at all. Aside from that, we have the Keep to handle any sort of import choices, like references to the LI, current divine, and whether the Inquisitor decided to disband or turn the reins over to the Chantry. Of returning characters, the most reasonable to assume would be Dorian, Solas, and either or both of Harding/Charter. No one else is necessary, aside from what players might want to see, which is, quite frankly, irrelevant to the needs of the plot and other development considerations.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 25, 2019 22:46:13 GMT
Of returning characters, the most reasonable to assume would be Dorian, Solas, and either or both of Harding/Charter. No one else is necessary, aside from what players might want to see, which is, quite frankly, irrelevant to the needs of the plot and other development considerations. I think they could probably work in cameos from the other DAI LI’s without being too disruptive.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 25, 2019 23:16:21 GMT
Of returning characters, the most reasonable to assume would be Dorian, Solas, and either or both of Harding/Charter. No one else is necessary, aside from what players might want to see, which is, quite frankly, irrelevant to the needs of the plot and other development considerations. I think they could probably work in cameos from the other DAI LI’s without being too disruptive. Cassandra: Either show up helping in a quest with her Seekers or as the Divine for some reason. Cullen: helps with Templars. Josephine: some quest with Tevinter politics or a naval thing. Rainer: some quest with Grey Wardens or just his wandering. Sera: some quest with the Red Jennies. The Iron Bull: some quest with the Bull’s Chargers.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 25, 2019 23:57:02 GMT
I think they could probably work in cameos from the other DAI LI’s without being too disruptive. Cassandra: Either show up helping in a quest with her Seekers or as the Divine for some reason. Cullen: helps with Templars. Josephine: some quest with Tevinter politics or a naval thing. Rainer: some quest with Grey Wardens or just his wandering. Sera: some quest with the Red Jennies. The Iron Bull: some quest with the Bull’s Chargers. That is the problem, its no different the running into Jack at the Academy and how people claimed they were "disappointed that was all Jack's cameo was". I just don't see it going well with that route.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 25, 2019 23:58:17 GMT
Cassandra: Either show up helping in a quest with her Seekers or as the Divine for some reason. Cullen: helps with Templars. Josephine: some quest with Tevinter politics or a naval thing. Rainer: some quest with Grey Wardens or just his wandering. Sera: some quest with the Red Jennies. The Iron Bull: some quest with the Bull’s Chargers. That is the problem, its no different the running into Jack at the Academy and how people claimed they were "disappointed that was all Jack's cameo was". I just don't see it going well with that route. The people who complained about that are a small minority though. I know far more people enjoyed those cameos.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Dec 26, 2019 0:09:49 GMT
I too favour the idea of a new protagonist, but Hawke in DAI impressed upon me that old PCs as NPCs are not a good idea, so if you bring one back you need to have control*. Even if it's only control over their dialogue wheel and once the conversation is over you lose control again. So if they're bringing the inquisitor back I wouldn't want them as an npc but I'd be up for a dual protagonist situation where you spend most of the time as the new pc but switch to control the inquisitor for a handful of sequences.
Overall if I were to rank them in order of preference I'd go NewPC Only>Duel w/ NewPC Focus>Inquisitor Only>Duel 50/50. But I voted Duel w/ NewPC Focus because I suspect the Inquisitor will be present and as I said I don't want another Hawke situation.
(I don't see the point of Duel w/ Inquisitor focus, might aswell be inquistor only if the NewPC isn't going to get enough screentime to establish)
*Unless they're not supposed to be acting IC, eg. if the inquisitor only shows up in da4 if they drank from the Well and are being mind controlled because of it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 26, 2019 0:42:07 GMT
Yeah between Hawke and Revan BioWare have proven that they aren’t able to properly represent former PCs as NPCs.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 26, 2019 4:06:00 GMT
That is the problem, its no different the running into Jack at the Academy and how people claimed they were "disappointed that was all Jack's cameo was". I just don't see it going well with that route. The people who complained about that are a small minority though. I know far more people enjoyed those cameos. I know plenty of people that felt those cameos were painful and not true to the characters that returned for they were just there for fan service and not really to move the plot forward which to me can be seen that way since every since one was designed to be disposable in case the character died in Mass Effect 2. So we really cannot say how much of the gaming population liked or disliked it. Just our personal opinion on the matter and mine is that they were hit or miss and inconsequential to the game itself.
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Post by PCthug on Dec 26, 2019 18:27:19 GMT
New protagonist only. Changing up the player character every game is one of the reasons I like the DA series. Plus dual protagonists sounds like a bit of nightmare to develop and implement. I'd rather the resources not be split.
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Post by melbella on Dec 26, 2019 23:51:18 GMT
New protagonist only. Changing up the player character every game is one of the reasons I like the DA series. Plus dual protagonists sounds like a bit of nightmare to develop and implement. I'd rather the resources not be split.
The resource issue could be alleviated with fewer followers. DAI had too many, imo, with 9 possible companions (3 mandatory, 2 partially mandatory, 4 completely optional) and 3 advisors. I think 6 companions max would be better, much less overwhelming, with some 3 of 6 combo being mandatory, the other 3 optional.
Similar to ME2 where you need 8 team members to go through the relay but after the first 4 missions pre-Horizon, the other 4 can be anyone. Say you can't trigger the final mission without a minimum party of 4, but the other 3 could be any of the possible options in the game.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 27, 2019 4:34:44 GMT
New protagonist only. Changing up the player character every game is one of the reasons I like the DA series. Plus dual protagonists sounds like a bit of nightmare to develop and implement. I'd rather the resources not be split.
The resource issue could be alleviated with fewer followers. DAI had too many, imo, with 9 possible companions (3 mandatory, 2 partially mandatory, 4 completely optional) and 3 advisors. I think 6 companions max would be better, much less overwhelming, with some 3 of 6 combo being mandatory, the other 3 optional.
Similar to ME2 where you need 8 team members to go through the relay but after the first 4 missions pre-Horizon, the other 4 can be anyone. Say you can't trigger the final mission without a minimum party of 4, but the other 3 could be any of the possible options in the game.
If you want to remove companions to make room for another protagonist I think it would be a lot more then three that would need to be cut to free up the amount of animations needed. I would think it would almost have to become Anthem where you only have something like Advisors and the protagonists.
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Post by rahavan on Dec 27, 2019 5:35:45 GMT
I want a new protagonist with the inquisitor showing up briefly. I would be really bored with my inquisitor coming back but with solas being the BBEG you kind of have to do *something*
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