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Post by Hrungr on Jan 4, 2020 22:13:37 GMT
Here's my list, though I won't get into detailed reviews for each... 2010Mass Effect 2: For obvious reasons... HM: Limbo 2011Skyrim: My "Game of the Decade". Skyrim has a... certain magic to it. A number of factors come together in just the right way. And coupled with its awesome modding community the game remains fresh even today. HM: Portal 2 2012Mass Effect 3: Barring the ending, ME3 is actually my favorite of the franchise (factoring in the DLC). HM: Black Mesa 2013Bioshock Infinite: Visually stunning, and that ending haunted me... HM: Tomb Raider 2014Dragon Age Inquisition: I was impressed with the huge improvement (visually, gameplay) this game was over DA2. Especially given they had to move to a new engine, then add all the RPG elements, cameras, quadrupeds, and on, and on... Night and day. I think some people forget just how much had been added between the 2 games. HM: The Talos Principle 2015Witcher 3: While I'm so-so on the main game (there's things I like and things I don't), I will say the 2 DLC are probably the best DLC I've played for any game. HM: Rise of the Tomb Raider 2016Doom 2016: My favorite FPS in *years*. The visual storytelling, the humor, and Mick Gordon's soundtrack - perfection. HM: Inside 2017Assassin's Creed: Origins - No question, Origins revitalized the waning AC franchise. A lot of neat little touches in the game too - like the "hallucinations" out in the deep desert, and the hidden First Civ areas. HM: Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice 2018Assassin's Creed: Odyssey - The addition of some RPG elements in the game worked out pretty well for a first go at it (barring that *one* DLC). It's enjoyable just wandering around in that game in way that few others can achieve. There's a staggering number of NPC animations in this game, which really helps create that living, breathing world. And I thought Melissanthi Mahut did a fantastic job with Kassandra. BioWare should steal her for something... HM: Monster Hunter World 2019The Outer Worlds: Didn't play too many new games this year, but the OW was certainly my favorite. Looking forward to the DLC! HM: Assassin's Creed Odyssey DLC
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 4, 2020 22:45:57 GMT
MajesticJazz gets to polish CDPR's knob about TW3 yet again...the whole reason this was posted to begin with. DAI doesn't "move the genre forward"? Haha, okay, sure. Keep on keeping on... I'll bite. So how did DAI move the genre forward? Please elaborate. For TW3 I can say side quest design was one as well as DLC design. Again, Bioware (need to find a link) essentially said expansion style DLCs were not profitable and/or desired by today's consumers which is why they only do those short DLCs. Blood and Wine has enough content in it alone to be a full blown $60 game. Now you have other devs following similar route although not to the same level of success. Assassins Creed Odyssey in many ways tried to capture that style of TW3. How many devs have since tried to use the DAI formula? And then there is this: www.google.com/amp/s/comicbook.com/gaming/amp/2018/05/27/dragon-age-inquisition-bioware-witcher-3/So again, how did DAI move the genre forward? And this: www.google.com/amp/s/gamerant.com/mass-effect-andromeda-side-quest-witcher/amp/How come MEA side quest couldn't be meaningful like DAI? Why reference TW3 and not DAI?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 0:01:43 GMT
For all this talk of the ‘impact’ that The Witcher 3 had, what RPGs have come out since its release that mimicked TW3’s style? Darkest Dungeon? The Outer Worlds? Disco Elysium? Fire Emblem: Three Houses? Pillars of Eternity? Pillars of Eternity 2? Divinity: Original Sin II? Final Fantasy VII?
I’ll give you Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but that’s it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 5, 2020 1:24:45 GMT
For all this talk of the ‘impact’ that The Witcher 3 had, what RPGs have come out since its release that mimicked TW3’s style? Darkest Dungeon? The Outer Worlds? Disco Elysium? Fire Emblem: Three Houses? Pillars of Eternity? Pillars of Eternity 2? Divinity: Original Sin II? Final Fantasy VII? I’ll give you Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but that’s it. Assassins Creed Odyssey And if you read the above comment, you'll see how Bioware attempted to mimic the quality of side quest with MEA. Still waiting to see any developer reference DAI as a game they were taking pointers from.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 5, 2020 1:38:01 GMT
For all this talk of the ‘impact’ that The Witcher 3 had, what RPGs have come out since its release that mimicked TW3’s style? Darkest Dungeon? The Outer Worlds? Disco Elysium? Fire Emblem: Three Houses? Pillars of Eternity? Pillars of Eternity 2? Divinity: Original Sin II? Final Fantasy VII? I’ll give you Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but that’s it. Also even the business style is having an influence. Many games are coming out now with 2 major EXPANSIONS that significantly adds more story, content and locations to the base game. All of this is due to the success of Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone. Prime Examples are: AC: Origins expansions AC: Odyssey expansions Control will have 2 major post launch single player expansions Doom Eternal will have 2 major post launch single player expansions Prior to this it was only short 1-3 hour long DLC that devs were focused on, especially Bioware with their many DLC for ME2/ME3 that was short in terms of length compared to the 10+ hour Hearts of Stone and whopping 20+ hour Blood and Wine. For a single player game with ZERO multiplayer, TW3 is gaving major lasting power with Witcher 3 selling OVER 20 million units alone. Just a few weeks ago, TW3 had the highest amount of people on Steam playing it than it has had in a long while. No doubt due to the release of the Netflix show but still, that is true lasting power. Now compare that to DAI and how it has been regarded post release through the years.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2020 2:09:47 GMT
For all this talk of the ‘impact’ that The Witcher 3 had, what RPGs have come out since its release that mimicked TW3’s style? Darkest Dungeon? The Outer Worlds? Disco Elysium? Fire Emblem: Three Houses? Pillars of Eternity? Pillars of Eternity 2? Divinity: Original Sin II? Final Fantasy VII? I’ll give you Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but that’s it. Also even the business style is having an influence. Many games are coming out now with 2 major EXPANSIONS that significantly adds more story, content and locations to the base game. All of this is due to the success of Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone. Prime Examples are: AC: Origins expansions AC: Odyssey expansions Control will have 2 major post launch single player expansions Doom Eternal will have 2 major post launch single player expansions Prior to this it was only short 1-3 hour long DLC that devs were focused on, especially Bioware with their many DLC for ME2/ME3 that was short in terms of length compared to the 10+ hour Hearts of Stone and whopping 20+ hour Blood and Wine. The Witcher is hardly the first franchise to do that. Bethesda games like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout were doing it years before them for example.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 5, 2020 2:25:07 GMT
Also even the business style is having an influence. Many games are coming out now with 2 major EXPANSIONS that significantly adds more story, content and locations to the base game. All of this is due to the success of Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone. Prime Examples are: AC: Origins expansions AC: Odyssey expansions Control will have 2 major post launch single player expansions Doom Eternal will have 2 major post launch single player expansions Prior to this it was only short 1-3 hour long DLC that devs were focused on, especially Bioware with their many DLC for ME2/ME3 that was short in terms of length compared to the 10+ hour Hearts of Stone and whopping 20+ hour Blood and Wine. The Witcher is hardly the first franchise to do that. Bethesda games like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout were doing it years before them for example. Fallout 3 DLC lasted around 3-5 hours. Hearts of Stone was 10+ hours and Blood and Wine was 20+ hours. AC Odyssey and Origins followed a similar route with the first DLC being around 10ish hours in length with the 2nd one being around 20ish hours.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2020 2:34:11 GMT
The Witcher is hardly the first franchise to do that. Bethesda games like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout were doing it years before them for example. Fallout 3 DLC lasted around 3-5 hours. Hearts of Stone was 10+ hours and Blood and Wine was 20+ hours. AC Odyssey and Origins followed a similar route with the first DLC being around 10ish hours in length with the 2nd one being around 20ish hours. And DLC like Shivering Isles lasted for over a day. And that’s just one example from one studio who did this before CDPR tried. Also the less games doing what Odyssey did, the better.Not a great endorsement for Witcher’s influence.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jan 5, 2020 2:54:33 GMT
Haha. This thread delivered much more that I expected.
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Post by samhain444 on Jan 5, 2020 3:54:45 GMT
MajesticJazz gets to polish CDPR's knob about TW3 yet again...the whole reason this was posted to begin with. DAI doesn't "move the genre forward"? Haha, okay, sure. Keep on keeping on... I'll bite. So how did DAI move the genre forward? Please elaborate. For TW3 I can say side quest design was one as well as DLC design. Again, Bioware (need to find a link) essentially said expansion style DLCs were not profitable and/or desired by today's consumers which is why they only do those short DLCs. Blood and Wine has enough content in it alone to be a full blown $60 game. Now you have other devs following similar route although not to the same level of success. Assassins Creed Odyssey in many ways tried to capture that style of TW3. How many devs have since tried to use the DAI formula? And then there is this: www.google.com/amp/s/comicbook.com/gaming/amp/2018/05/27/dragon-age-inquisition-bioware-witcher-3/So again, how did DAI move the genre forward? And this: www.google.com/amp/s/gamerant.com/mass-effect-andromeda-side-quest-witcher/amp/How come MEA side quest couldn't be meaningful like DAI? Why reference TW3 and not DAI? "I...don't...want...to...walk around in circles, walk around in circles, walk around in circles" Da Witcha 3 is duh best game eh-vah!
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Post by Serza on Jan 5, 2020 16:33:18 GMT
For all this talk of the ‘impact’ that The Witcher 3 had, what RPGs have come out since its release that mimicked TW3’s style? Darkest Dungeon? The Outer Worlds? Disco Elysium? Fire Emblem: Three Houses? Pillars of Eternity? Pillars of Eternity 2? Divinity: Original Sin II? Final Fantasy VII? I’ll give you Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but that’s it. Assassins Creed Odyssey
Excellent example.
Haha. This thread delivered much more that I expected.
Well, what can I say. Shit happens.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 5, 2020 21:15:57 GMT
And if you read the above comment, you'll see how Bioware attempted to mimic the quality of side quest with MEA. I think anyone who played MEA knows that’s a load of marketing bullshit. 😅 Interviewer: One of the biggest complaints about DAI was the large amount of extraneous and, some would say, lacklustre side quests. Are you going to address that with Mass Effect: Andromeda? Developer: Uh, yeah, we ended up trying to mimic ... Damn, what RPG was popular recently that had good side quests? Final Fantasy? No, not that weeaboo shit with the cup noodles. Pillars of Eternity 2? No, those poor bastards can’t even make their rent! Super Mario Odyssey? Fuck, great game, but not an RPG! Fortnite? Christ, that’s even worse! Come on, you gotta give this dickwad an answer! He’s staring at you! He can smell your fear! You don’t want to get fired and go back to washing dead bodies at the morgue, do you? GIVE HIM AN ANSWER!Developer: ... The Witcher 3? Interviewer: Wow, really? That sounds great! I always thought the Mass Effect series needed more dead babies in it. Well one of criticisms from DAI was how bland and MMOish the side quest was. One of the praises for TW3 was the quality of the side quest. So whether it was PR talk or not, the fact that a Bioware developer referenced an external game rather than a game that was Bioware's "most successful game" really says a lot about the overall industry perception for both games. This also plays into the topic of the thread in which back in 2014 DAI was IGNs GOTY but 5 years later when tasked with naming the top games of 2014....DAI didnt make the list. In retrospect, DAI got a lot of praise in 2014 simply because DA2 was so badly received and DAI improved upon many of DA2's shortcomings. Essentially the bar for DAI, set by DA2 was very low and DAI surpassed that bar. However in the greater scheme of things, DAI did not have the same lasting impact because the expectations that it was tasked to execute were so basic due to DA2 being so lackluster. Interesting enough, DA4 is in a similar position as DAI. While DAI was critically and financially successful, since then Bioware has had duds in MEA and Anthem and Bioware is no longer seen as that strong industry force. So all DA4 has to do is simply be a quality game. It doesnt have to push the genre forward, it doesnt have to be a GOTY contender nor does it need any other special accolades. All the game needs to do is have quality and have a net positive critical reception. If it does that, then DA4 would be seen as a highly successful game.
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Post by Serza on Jan 5, 2020 22:05:12 GMT
Yup. Too busy arguing to realize it's sarcasm.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 7, 2020 3:45:46 GMT
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 7, 2020 4:24:20 GMT
Two thoughts;
1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously.
2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons.
In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise.
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Post by githcheater on Jan 7, 2020 5:47:53 GMT
Two thoughts; 1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously. 2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons. In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise. DAI was released one to two months before the GOTY awards were generally issued. DAI was still in its honeymoon period before its flaws (side quests) became more "noticed". When TW3 was released only 6 months after DAI, it quickly was generally acknowledged to be the "new king" of RPGs because of its excellent side quests, and DAI then lost some of its "new game smell".
DAI justifiably earned 40+ GOTY awards, albeit during a weak gaming year. Unless one is a conspiracy theorist that believes the moon is flat, EA could not have possibly bought half of these 40+ GOTY awards.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 7, 2020 5:55:17 GMT
Two thoughts; 1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously. 2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons. In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise. DAI was released one to two months before the GOTY awards were generally issued. DAI was still in its honeymoon period before its flaws (side quests) became more "noticed". When TW3 was released only 6 months after DAI, it quickly was generally acknowledged to be the "new king" of RPGs because of its excellent side quests, and DAI then lost some of its "new game smell". DAI justifiably earned 40+ GOTY awards, albeit during a weak gaming year. Unless one is a conspiracy theorist that believes the moon is flat, EA could not have possibly bought half of these 40+ GOTY awards. I don't disagree with any points raised, except the last one. EA could have easily bought every single award DAI received (and the vast majority of publications would've happily sold them - I don't have a lot of faith in gaming journalism as a source of reviews and information). My stance is, they wouldn't have.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 7, 2020 6:43:39 GMT
Fallout 3 DLC lasted around 3-5 hours. Hearts of Stone was 10+ hours and Blood and Wine was 20+ hours. AC Odyssey and Origins followed a similar route with the first DLC being around 10ish hours in length with the 2nd one being around 20ish hours. And DLC like Shivering Isles lasted for over a day. And that’s just one example from one studio who did this before CDPR tried. Yeah, if we're talking "influential" RPGs and ones "that moved the genre forward" this decade - that honor does go to Skyrim. It's success is what spurred all the OW follow-ups. The Jimquisition had rather timely video on this as well.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 7, 2020 14:50:25 GMT
Two thoughts; 1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously. 2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons. In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise. No Indictment? Perhaps. However, look here. Metacritic just release their top 50 Best Reviewed Games of the decade. DA:I is not one of them.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 7, 2020 19:58:41 GMT
Two thoughts; 1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously. 2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons. In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise. DAI was released one to two months before the GOTY awards were generally issued. DAI was still in its honeymoon period before its flaws (side quests) became more "noticed". When TW3 was released only 6 months after DAI, it quickly was generally acknowledged to be the "new king" of RPGs because of its excellent side quests, and DAI then lost some of its "new game smell".
DAI justifiably earned 40+ GOTY awards, albeit during a weak gaming year. Unless one is a conspiracy theorist that believes the moon is flat, EA could not have possibly bought half of these 40+ GOTY awards. Makes sense, never saw it that way. DAI did have a strong launch and high review scores so all of that may have still been fresh on the voters eyes.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 7, 2020 20:01:55 GMT
Two thoughts; 1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously. 2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons. In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise. No Indictment? Perhaps. However, look here. Metacritic just release their top 50 Best Reviewed Games of the decade. DA:I is not one of them. One thing I have noticed was that ME2 has popped up on many of these list. While DAI may have been their most "strongest launch" (EA still has not released numbers) ME2 seems to be the Bioware game with the most lasting power.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 7, 2020 20:08:19 GMT
Two thoughts; 1; People are allowed to change their minds. It is OK to think something is amazing one day, and be ambivalent about it the next (or five years later), and the reverse is also true, obviously. 2; Are the same people from these publications who made DAI their GotY putting out these lists? If so, see thought 1. If not, different people like different things for different reasons. In summary, DAI not making any of these lists is in no way an indictment on the game, nor vindication of those who've derided it for the past half decade. It is a symptom of either changing tastes or changing personnel, or both. While DAI has flaws (the most glaring being its side quests), I've still put twice as many hours into it as I have TW3 (which I love). These lists hold merit when an individual or group agrees with them and seldom otherwise. No Indictment? Perhaps. However, look here. Metacritic just release their top 50 Best Reviewed Games of the decade. DA:I is not one of them. Yeah...Metacritic is as useful as Rotten Tomatoes in terms of judging quality (which is to say, not very). However, even if it were usually good - I stopped reading at #5. Might as well put Candy Crush and Farmville on the list if we're including games like Mario "anything". But if the list is meaningful for you, then more power to you. Edit: and just in case; no. If DAI had been included (or even number 1) on this list, it wouldn't change my opinion of metacritic and lists of this nature. They're listing all games. Suggesting DAI be compared with Mario, Forza etc is just plain weird.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 7, 2020 20:46:05 GMT
No Indictment? Perhaps. However, look here. Metacritic just release their top 50 Best Reviewed Games of the decade. DA:I is not one of them. One thing I have noticed was that ME2 has popped up on many of these list. While DAI may have been their most "strongest launch" (EA still has not released numbers) ME2 seems to be the Bioware game with the most lasting power. At the end of the day, DA:I was both BioWare's bestselling and best received game to date (acc. to Mark Darrah). So at the very least, they're trending in the right direction with the DA franchise. The important thing now is to build on that momentum with DA4.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 7, 2020 21:27:51 GMT
One thing I have noticed was that ME2 has popped up on many of these list. While DAI may have been their most "strongest launch" (EA still has not released numbers) ME2 seems to be the Bioware game with the most lasting power. At the end of the day, DA:I was both BioWare's bestselling and best received game to date (acc. to Mark Darrah). So at the very least, they're trending in the right direction with the DA franchise. The important thing now is to build upon that momentum with DA4. True, as of now the DA franchise remains the only Bioware property (not counting SWTOR) that has been free of major controversy like MEA and Anthem. Yes DA2 had it's issues but it was still reviewed well and sold well enough for them to make DLCs and a sequel. This is the momentum DA4 would have.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 7, 2020 23:44:34 GMT
Haha. This thread delivered much more that I expected. I rise from the dead and yeah it's nice to see that people aren't falling for the bait.
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