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Post by alanc9 on Dec 22, 2020 2:56:39 GMT
As I said it does not require a clone or time travel. They have stasis that lasts at least 600 years canonically. A he is so jacked up we can't fix him, yet. Heck they even did it for mama ryder. Stasis is more logical than a great bridge between galaxies being anywhere in the game other than its end. And heck a basic from the reapers we discovered genetic engineering that lets us extend our lifespans into the thousands of years seems more plausible than a relay between galaxies, especially since you'd need one on both ends and they would need some way to connect. I'll agree a new protagonist is more plausible, but Ryder in a game that appears to be MW focused, only if they completely want to end ME for all time and lose epic piles of cash in the process. I reluctantly agree. Whether or not it's a good idea, we're long past the point at which we could rule out something happening in the MEU just because it's silly.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 1:55:45 GMT
As I said it does not require a clone or time travel. They have stasis that lasts at least 600 years canonically. A he is so jacked up we can't fix him, yet. Heck they even did it for mama ryder. Stasis is more logical than a great bridge between galaxies being anywhere in the game other than its end. And heck a basic from the reapers we discovered genetic engineering that lets us extend our lifespans into the thousands of years seems more plausible than a relay between galaxies, especially since you'd need one on both ends and they would need some way to connect. I'll agree a new protagonist is more plausible, but Ryder in a game that appears to be MW focused, only if they completely want to end ME for all time and lose epic piles of cash in the process. Bringing either Shepard or Ryder back for this game seems fraught. I'd prefer not to have an Alien 3 (Shepard) or Last Jedi (Ryder) type situation.
The picture of the human-designated MR-7 thing that looks like a Relay could be the MW trying to make their own relays like Aethyta suggested, or it could be an intergalactic relay.
The easiest way to have one on both ends is to build both in one galaxy and send one of the pair to the other galaxy by ODSY drive. So, theoretically, Ark 6 could be a relay, although this seems implausible. (Why send a connection to your safe house right before you expect to be invaded?)
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 2:07:14 GMT
The Jardaan built it, yeah. They're everywhere, even though we've never seen them. They're even here, in this very board. In fact, they also built the BSN. Each one of us could be a Jardaan. Even Hrungr isn't actually human, but a twitter scouting advanced Jardaan bot. I had to give more possibilities than two. *shrug*
I'm personally convinced it's the Geth since it's positioned in the Perseus Veil. I can see Bioware heading off the outrage at a canonized Destroy ending by saving the Geth, since that was a sticking point for many people who didn't like Destroy. Or they might canonize Control as a way to save both the Geth and Shepard.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 23, 2020 2:17:04 GMT
The Jardaan built it, yeah. They're everywhere, even though we've never seen them. They're even here, in this very board. In fact, they also built the BSN. Each one of us could be a Jardaan. Even Hrungr isn't actually human, but a twitter scouting advanced Jardaan bot. The croc is a lie
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 23, 2020 2:18:48 GMT
I had to give more possibilities than two. *shrug* Hey, I voted for it. I'm vote #3. Or they might canonize Control as a way to save both the Geth and Shepard. You're not saving Shepard with Control. Shepard's gone in anything other than high EMS destroy.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 2:39:16 GMT
I can't tell what that person is, although the broad shoulders could be angaran. The legs don't look correct.
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around having Ryder in the MW. Why would she have a Mudskipper instead of the Tempest? Unless the intergalactic relay has some sort of weight restriction and can only send people but not ships.
As far as the movement goes, wouldn't every human have that idle animation going forward in the Frostbite engine?
If Bioware doesn't bring back Shepard and instead brings Ryder to clean up the aftermath of a low EMS Destroy outcome, I think most of the fanbase would birth a cow and then explode. Like The Last Jedi type of explosion. I love Ryder, but that seems inadvisable.
The mudskipper is a problem and i see it in every artwork and as we see in the teaser. If that's the main ship i don't like it. Everyone believe shepard is gonnna come back but that is stupid imo. We can see that liara is older, and I don't think they did that to confuse people whether she is or not. The n7 could mean nothing, we see n7 in every promotional video, Andromeda too. I think liara is just reminiscent of her/him and hopeful for the future. If they want to revive shepard again is gonna be ridiculous at this point... Shepard could be at most a reference or see some memories, and at least they had 3 games to develop whereas ryder has only 1. I know people will rage but if the game has ryder, and it's good, i don't think there's gonna be that much big of a problem... Unless they travel through time and redo the ending with shepard surviving, but i don't think they will go that far. There are people that want the Andromeda story albeit fewer than a shepard continuation but they are there, and they can win new and old people. People need to stop jumping to conclusions and say "omg Shepard's back!". Same goes for the journalists. They hype themselves for nothing and at the end they might be disappointed cause it's gonna be their fault, not bioware's. Granted, i too was thinking shepard was gonna return but i didn't paying attention at the time. After seeing it a lot of times i realized that's not the case, but more informations will come at some point and we'll know who the pc is gonna be. The amount of Mudskipper we've seen so far convinces me it's our new ship. I can think of reasons why Shepard or Ryder could turn up with a new ship, but it still seems most likely that it's a new protagonist. Maybe Mike Gamble is just playing with us? Oh, and Steve Cortez can die in ME3 when the shuttle crashes, so the humanoids I can think of that would be available immediately Post-Reaper war are Shepard, Traynor and Kolyat. Maybe Bailey or Gianna Parasini. (Hey, if you guys can spare a few dollars, Michael Hogan, the VA for Bailey had head trauma and could use some help paying his medical bills. You can Google it.)
I think Bioware made an error making N7 the symbol of Mass Effect because now they feel they need to bring an N7 into every story. My sneaking suspicion was that they had a lot of N7 hoodies left over after ME3 and needed a new reason to sell them, but that's just me being cynical. The one thing that's odd to me is that Liara looks at the helmet and then looks to the Mudskipper and smiles. Usually people who are reminiscing to themselves look off in the middle distance (like the LI who refuses to put Shepard's name on the wall), but she pretty specifically looks at the Mudskipper. Not sure what that signifies.
I think the point some people are making is that if the game has Ryder there is a segment of the fanbase that won't buy the game at all even if it's good. Not sure how many of those there are, but probably more than the number who would refuse to buy the game if it has Shepard in it. So their argument is : alienate the smaller number of potential customers by bringing back Shepard. I think it's not possible to bring back Shepard in the way we would all like and that disappointment would also be detrimental, but EA may feel it's better to jump the shark and have disgruntled fans who have bought the game rather than disgruntled fans who refuse to buy the game.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 2:50:14 GMT
Anyone know where Liara put her beacons? If so, do any of those locations match up with these supposed planets? I'm sorry, I don't know. The area the beacon is in in the Refuse ending looks temperate, so it could have snow during winter.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 2:52:53 GMT
I think that it is logical to assume that in a high ems post destroy setting there would be a Quarian faction that wanted to rebuild the Geth. And this would probably not be legally approved so it would be done in secret and quite an interesting plot point. I'm sure Xen would love to make more Geth to experiment on.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 2:54:08 GMT
The Jardaan built it, yeah. They're everywhere, even though we've never seen them. They're even here, in this very board. In fact, they also built the BSN. Each one of us could be a Jardaan. Even Hrungr isn't actually human, but a twitter scouting advanced Jardaan bot. The croc is a lie Maybe the Jardaan are crocodiles.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 23, 2020 2:59:08 GMT
I think it's not possible to bring back Shepard in the way we would all like and that disappointment would also be detrimental, but EA may feel it's better to jump the shark and have disgruntled fans who have bought the game rather than disgruntled fans who refuse to buy the game. I think ultimately this is the pill that BioWare has probably had to swallow in relaunching the series. You're gonna piss off a sizable portion of the community no matter what you do, and bringing Shepard back isn't a instant win option. Bringing him back means bringing back a lot of the ME3 Ending woes that people had, which would be inescapable given how soon after ME3 the story would need to take place in; should he come back. On the topic of N7, I used to ponder the idea of a blank slate main character having the option to run through N7 training as a specialization. Problem is the time associated with the program. I believe Seals training, which is likely the real-world inspiration behind N7 training, takes up to two years before being fully vetted. It would be interesting to see if the N7 program - in a post-Reaper Milky Way - has seen drastic changes in how training occurs.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 3:02:01 GMT
I had to give more possibilities than two. *shrug* Hey, I voted for it. I'm vote #3. Or they might canonize Control as a way to save both the Geth and Shepard. You're not saving Shepard with Control. Shepard's gone in anything other than high EMS destroy. Thank you for your support.
Who's to say Control Shepard can't be downloaded into a new body? It's another way Bioware could preserve Shepard for 640 years other than a stasis pod or freezing him like Captain America. I'd prefer Control Shepard downloaded into the Shepard VI hologram carried around by Keeper 21. "Looking good there, Soldier! You look like a varren person!"
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 3:53:08 GMT
I think it's not possible to bring back Shepard in the way we would all like and that disappointment would also be detrimental, but EA may feel it's better to jump the shark and have disgruntled fans who have bought the game rather than disgruntled fans who refuse to buy the game. I think ultimately this is the pill that BioWare has probably had to swallow in relaunching the series. You're gonna piss off a sizable portion of the community no matter what you do, and bringing Shepard back isn't a instant win option. Bringing him back means bringing back a lot of the ME3 Ending woes that people had, which would be inescapable given how soon after ME3 the story would need to take place in; should he come back. On the topic of N7, I used to ponder the idea of a blank slate main character having the option to run through N7 training as a specialization. Problem is the time associated with the program. I believe Seals training, which is likely the real-world inspiration behind N7 training, takes up to two years before being fully vetted. It would be interesting to see if the N7 program - in a post-Reaper Milky Way - has seen drastic changes in how training occurs. I agree bringing Shepard back isn't an instant win. Shepard is a win only until we see how her story has to be implemented. By necessity it becomes vague, which isn't satisfying.
Not-Garrus: "Hey, Shepard, are you thinking about that guy? What was his name? Wrex?" Choices: Who's that?/The guy I didn't recruit?/The guy Ash shot?/The guy I betrayed and shot?/My best friend that named 600 of his children Shepard?
Shepard: "Ummm... yeah." Not-Garrus: "You must be thinking about that time, right? I heard about that from Not-Tali." Choices: Oh, yes, that time. It was very... memorable./Oh, yes, that made me so angry./Oh, yes, that made me so happy. Shepard: "Uh huh." Not-Garrus: "I'm so glad you chose to De-synthe-cont-refuse the Reapers." Shepard: "I should go."
I love Shepard, but I think I'm hoping for high EMS Destroy where Shep lived out their life with their LI and died of old age surrounded by friends. Over the 500 years following their death the galaxy went to crap and now someone else is needed to fix it.
Virtual N7 training sounds grueling. I remember clicking the mouse 182 times just so I could see what happened if you tied James' pull-up record.
To save you all some time, he says "Aww, you were so close!"
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Post by ahglock on Dec 23, 2020 3:56:58 GMT
The mudskipper is a problem and i see it in every artwork and as we see in the teaser. If that's the main ship i don't like it. Everyone believe shepard is gonnna come back but that is stupid imo. We can see that liara is older, and I don't think they did that to confuse people whether she is or not. The n7 could mean nothing, we see n7 in every promotional video, Andromeda too. I think liara is just reminiscent of her/him and hopeful for the future. If they want to revive shepard again is gonna be ridiculous at this point... Shepard could be at most a reference or see some memories, and at least they had 3 games to develop whereas ryder has only 1. I know people will rage but if the game has ryder, and it's good, i don't think there's gonna be that much big of a problem... Unless they travel through time and redo the ending with shepard surviving, but i don't think they will go that far. There are people that want the Andromeda story albeit fewer than a shepard continuation but they are there, and they can win new and old people. People need to stop jumping to conclusions and say "omg Shepard's back!". Same goes for the journalists. They hype themselves for nothing and at the end they might be disappointed cause it's gonna be their fault, not bioware's. Granted, i too was thinking shepard was gonna return but i didn't paying attention at the time. After seeing it a lot of times i realized that's not the case, but more informations will come at some point and we'll know who the pc is gonna be. I think the point some people are making is that if the game has Ryder there is a segment of the fanbase that won't buy the game at all even if it's good. Not sure how many of those there are, but probably more than the number who would refuse to buy the game if it has Shepard in it. So their argument is : alienate the smaller number of potential customers by bringing back Shepard. I think it's not possible to bring back Shepard in the way we would all like and that disappointment would also be detrimental, but EA may feel it's better to jump the shark and have disgruntled fans who have bought the game rather than disgruntled fans who refuse to buy the game.
I think the problem they will have if they use Ryder is they are showing us the MW in a bad space. Having a character many don't like showing up to fix the problems a character they did like left wont go over well. No matter which way it goes Shepard in Andromeda fixing Ryders problems or Ryder in the MW fixing Shepards. Its pretty much shitting on a fan base. That is the kind of stuff you do if you want to make sure a sizable chunk of your fans never buy any of your products again.
If both were back and they helped each other maybe that would work, but I don;t think they can pull it off. A new protagonist is their best option I think given the mine field they seem to be placing themselves in.
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 23, 2020 4:48:38 GMT
I think the point some people are making is that if the game has Ryder there is a segment of the fanbase that won't buy the game at all even if it's good. Not sure how many of those there are, but probably more than the number who would refuse to buy the game if it has Shepard in it. So their argument is : alienate the smaller number of potential customers by bringing back Shepard. I think it's not possible to bring back Shepard in the way we would all like and that disappointment would also be detrimental, but EA may feel it's better to jump the shark and have disgruntled fans who have bought the game rather than disgruntled fans who refuse to buy the game.
I think the problem they will have if they use Ryder is they are showing us the MW in a bad space. Having a character many don't like showing up to fix the problems a character they did like left wont go over well. No matter which way it goes Shepard in Andromeda fixing Ryders problems or Ryder in the MW fixing Shepards. Its pretty much shitting on a fan base. That is the kind of stuff you do if you want to make sure a sizable chunk of your fans never buy any of your products again.
If both were back and they helped each other maybe that would work, but I don;t think they can pull it off. A new protagonist is their best option I think given the mine field they seem to be placing themselves in. I couldn't agree with this more. I think part of the reason The Last Jedi was so hated was that it gave Luke, Leia and Han terrible lives after RotJ and then some upstart had to save the galaxy from the mistakes they had made. Which just made all of the people who loved the original characters sad and angry. And made them resent the new characters.
If Shepard died 500 years in the past after having a full and happy life with their LI in a hopeful galaxy, I think fans will be sad but will be able to accept it. But if Shepard is forced to have chosen low EMS destroy and die, leaving the galaxy in a dark age that Ryder is going to save everyone from using "the magic of SAM" it won't go over well. 500-550 years is enough time for Shepard's happy ending galaxy to go to crap and it wouldn't be Shepard's fault, it would be because we no longer had Shepard. That way Shepard's legacy isn't tarnished, and they got their happy ending with blue babies and houses on Rannoch and adopted krogan daughters. Then the new protagonist can build a relay to Andromeda and link up with Ryder to solve the problems of both galaxies.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 23, 2020 4:54:48 GMT
I'm trying to come up with a reason why we would contact the Andromeda galaxy if things went to shit here. Hey, you know those dudes who left that don't have enough manpower to populate a small city, they will save our galaxy wide problem even though they probably have enough problems of their own setting up a new colony. Especially 600 years later. Like would anyone even think about them 600 years later, sure Liara knew they went there but 600 years come on. Even the best of writers would have a problem selling that narrative, and they aren't the best of writers.
And this is ignoring the fact that the AI made the council look competent.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 23, 2020 5:05:05 GMT
I'm not clear why we're assuming that the MW will still be a bad place 600 years past the Reaper War.
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Post by traks on Dec 23, 2020 8:26:27 GMT
I'm trying to come up with a reason why we would contact the Andromeda galaxy if things went to shit here... From the Andromeda Initiative's perspective it's easy: they have to have a connection to the Milky Way (at least planned), otherwise the whole Initiative doesn't make any sense. The goal of course should be to share key findings with the MW. For the Milky Way, Andromeda is of interest if a threat originates and thereby its solution is assumed to lie there.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Dec 23, 2020 9:20:19 GMT
The mudskipper is a problem and i see it in every artwork and as we see in the teaser. If that's the main ship i don't like it. Everyone believe shepard is gonnna come back but that is stupid imo. We can see that liara is older, and I don't think they did that to confuse people whether she is or not. The n7 could mean nothing, we see n7 in every promotional video, Andromeda too. I think liara is just reminiscent of her/him and hopeful for the future. If they want to revive shepard again is gonna be ridiculous at this point... Shepard could be at most a reference or see some memories, and at least they had 3 games to develop whereas ryder has only 1. I know people will rage but if the game has ryder, and it's good, i don't think there's gonna be that much big of a problem... Unless they travel through time and redo the ending with shepard surviving, but i don't think they will go that far. There are people that want the Andromeda story albeit fewer than a shepard continuation but they are there, and they can win new and old people. People need to stop jumping to conclusions and say "omg Shepard's back!". Same goes for the journalists. They hype themselves for nothing and at the end they might be disappointed cause it's gonna be their fault, not bioware's. Granted, i too was thinking shepard was gonna return but i didn't paying attention at the time. After seeing it a lot of times i realized that's not the case, but more informations will come at some point and we'll know who the pc is gonna be. The amount of Mudskipper we've seen so far convinces me it's our new ship. I can think of reasons why Shepard or Ryder could turn up with a new ship, but it still seems most likely that it's a new protagonist. Maybe Mike Gamble is just playing with us? The one thing that's odd to me is that Liara looks at the helmet and then looks to the Mudskipper and smiles. Usually people who are reminiscing to themselves look off in the middle distance (like the LI who refuses to put Shepard's name on the wall), but she pretty specifically looks at the Mudskipper. Not sure what that signifies.
Or the mudskipper is our secondary vehicle (maybe a replacement of the nomad). It seems smaller for it to be a main ship but it could be. As for a new pc, that's possible too but from gamble's saying it's someone we know. If he's playing with us then it's gonna be his fault. I think liara if she's only looking at the ship could also be memories coming in her mind. She might look at both the ship and the crew, maybe she knows them, they work for her, or maybe that krogan at the distance is a friend of her and that's why she smiles. When she looks at the n7 piece she looks sad when she picks it up and looks at it but when she turns her face, the way the camera is positioned with the horizon in front of her and the sun illuminates her face (showing she has aged but also the sun could be a guiding light, a ray of hope for a better future). At this point we'll see who's the pc. She knows alec and she might know the new pc, or maybe not.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 23, 2020 11:26:15 GMT
Who's to say Control Shepard can't be downloaded into a new body? Shepard's consciousness was drastically altered, the moment it merged with the Catalyst. That person you knew as Shepard was effectively dead, even if it survived the destruction of its body.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 23, 2020 15:52:27 GMT
I'm trying to come up with a reason why we would contact the Andromeda galaxy if things went to shit here... From the Andromeda Initiative's perspective it's easy: they have to have a connection to the Milky Way (at least planned), otherwise the whole Initiative doesn't make any sense. The goal of course should be to share key findings with the MW. For the Milky Way, Andromeda is of interest if a threat originates and thereby its solution is assumed to lie there.
Andromeda contacting the MW sure, but once you talk to those idiots would you ask them for help? its the 94th closest galaxy and a threat is such that the solution is assumed to lie there? Unless every planet needs teraforming, that is a stretch.
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 23, 2020 16:35:36 GMT
Unfortunately, I think Biower will make the mistake of having the Andomeda pukes come back to the MW.
Via some space magic or Jardaan stuff or whatever. There they will find Liara’s Beacon (and maybe Liara if the teaser is true), and then set out fixing up the Milky Way. (99% unexplored)
Biower can then have the next big baddies be whoever is behind the shenanigans in Andromeda following that doofus Ryder back to the MW.
Or not. I hope not.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 23, 2020 17:02:06 GMT
Unfortunately, I think Biower will make the mistake of having the Andomeda pukes come back to the MW. Via some space magic or Jardaan stuff or whatever. There they will find Liara’s Beacon (and maybe Liara if the teaser is true), and then set out fixing up the Milky Way. (99% unexplored) Biower can then have the next big baddies be whoever is behind the shenanigans in Andromeda following that doofus Ryder back to the MW. Or not. I hope not.
Which is where I would not only not get the game I'd stop buying all bioware products. If you use your new characters and story to shit on the legacy characters and story that I actually like, well I'm out.
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Post by traks on Dec 23, 2020 17:45:13 GMT
Unfortunately, I think Biower will make the mistake of having the Andomeda pukes come back to the MW. Via some space magic or Jardaan stuff or whatever. There they will find Liara’s Beacon (and maybe Liara if the teaser is true), and then set out fixing up the Milky Way. (99% unexplored) Biower can then have the next big baddies be whoever is behind the shenanigans in Andromeda following that doofus Ryder back to the MW. Or not. I hope not.
Which is where I would not only not get the game I'd stop buying all bioware products. If you use your new characters and story to shit on the legacy characters and story that I actually like, well I'm out.
I understand the angle you come from, but still have a remaining question: how would a Kett or Jaardan or whoever invasion coming from Andromeda shit on the legacy characters? I mean, after Shep basically cleared the biggest threat ever in the Milky Way, a new threat (that ideally isn't dependent on Shep's choice, but rather would cause a problem after any ending) has to come from somewhere, no? It's clear, that the AI only makes sense, if building Mass relays to connect both galaxies is the ultimate goal. And that could of course cause problems. That's why the council likely isn't in favor of such a bridge and would send a Spectre squad to check out whether it's safe to open such a relay and then everything goes to shit...
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Post by ahglock on Dec 23, 2020 18:30:53 GMT
Which is where I would not only not get the game I'd stop buying all bioware products. If you use your new characters and story to shit on the legacy characters and story that I actually like, well I'm out.
I understand the angle you come from, but still have a remaining question: how would a Kett or Jaardan or whoever invasion coming from Andromeda shit on the legacy characters? I mean, after Shep basically cleared the biggest threat ever in the Milky Way, a new threat (that ideally isn't dependent on Shep's choice, but rather would cause a problem after any ending) has to come from somewhere, no? It's clear, that the AI only makes sense, if building Mass relays to connect both galaxies is the ultimate goal. And that could of course cause problems. That's why the council likely isn't in favor of such a bridge and would send a Spectre squad to check out whether it's safe to open such a relay and then everything goes to shit...
Why and how exactly would either of those be a threat in the MW, and even if they were how would the AI be any help at all. There is 0 indication that is the story line they are shooting for. The MW is already jacked up, destroyed relays etc.
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Post by traks on Dec 23, 2020 19:05:09 GMT
I understand the angle you come from, but still have a remaining question: how would a Kett or Jaardan or whoever invasion coming from Andromeda shit on the legacy characters? I mean, after Shep basically cleared the biggest threat ever in the Milky Way, a new threat (that ideally isn't dependent on Shep's choice, but rather would cause a problem after any ending) has to come from somewhere, no? It's clear, that the AI only makes sense, if building Mass relays to connect both galaxies is the ultimate goal. And that could of course cause problems. That's why the council likely isn't in favor of such a bridge and would send a Spectre squad to check out whether it's safe to open such a relay and then everything goes to shit...
Why and how exactly would either of those be a threat in the MW, and even if they were how would the AI be any help at all. There is 0 indication that is the story line they are shooting for. The MW is already jacked up, destroyed relays etc.
If there are Mass Relays being build to bridge the galaxies, why wouldn't the Milky Way be of interest for an annihilating species like the Kett? A story like that would definitely one of my first thoughts if I were to link both galaxies. Thought from the AI perspective a thought I had: what if the Kett do what they do in preparation of a Reaper threat they don't know Shepard solved? So if we would continue with Ryder (who is one of the few people who know of the Reapers in the AI), he/she would've to find out, what happened in the MW, to convince the Kett, that the Reapers are no threat anymore.
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