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Post by phoray on Dec 22, 2020 2:41:40 GMT
There are literally pictures of a Warden Fortress in a desert area = Weishaupt. Adamant was a warden fortrgess in a desert area. That alone does not mean the concept art is Weisshaupt. The scope of size is really different I thought 🤷♀️
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Post by wickedcool on Dec 22, 2020 4:45:22 GMT
Plus it’s mentioned by morrigan at the end of the game
Nobody else thinks sandal is a definite? I think he plays a huge role based on da2 and trespasser.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2020 10:31:55 GMT
Nobody else thinks sandal is a definite? I think he plays a huge role based on da2 and trespasser. I'm not sure. We didn't actually meet him in Trespasser and I think the reference to him in the Vir Dirthara was a nod by the writers that everyone had been expecting to see him after DAO and DA2, plus Bodric even says they have been invited to the Orlesian Court. I would like to see Sandhal, if nothing else to clear up why he is capable of his "not enchantment" that can wipe our squads of darkspawn (DAO) or demons (DA2) or petrify an ogre as a block of crystal (DA2). Plus his curious backstory as detailed in WoT2. Clearly he does have a connection with the ancient elves as the place where he was discovered sounds a lot like the thaig in Horror of Hormack, so may have been one of the other eleven. Also he was haunted by a scary lady that sounded a lot like Flemeth. So it would be a pity if they quietly dropped him without ever explaining it all. I am less keen with regard to his "prophesy" because as with all prophesies, if it is going to come true then that suggests a level of predestination in Thedas and the fate of the world having already been decided, which begs the question "by whom" but also makes all our efforts pointless if we have no choice in the matter. If not an actual prophesy then apparently he was able to see into the mind of Solas (or Flemeth possibly) about they way they would like things to happen.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2020 10:41:20 GMT
Adamant was a warden fortress in a desert area. That alone does not mean the concept art is Weisshaupt. Adamant was a fortress that had been abandoned by the Wardens and become a civilian outpost, which was wiped out by Pharamond's experiments. Then it would seem the Wardens decided to take up temporary occupation again as part of their demon army plan as engineered by Erimond. Wasn't one of the last two Old Gods hinted at being somewhere in the Deep Roads nearby? The fortress in the concept art looks to be occupied and it would be odd to be taken to another warden outpost in a desert area after DAI. Generally their outposts seem to have been abandoned over time. After all, they couldn't even be bothered to keep a watch on Corypheus' prison. The fortress in the concept art looked pretty large and there was an interior with lots of warden banners and someone that could very easily be the First Warden. Also the description of Weisshauppt in Last Flight would seem to fit with the images we saw in that concept art. Let's be honest about it, Weisshaupt is another place, along with Minrathous, that you would be expecting to visit if we go north and have a fair bit of Warden involvement, which seems a given from both the concept art and the voice actor. In fact, given the high profile of the Wardens in Tevinter Nights, I would be surprised if they don't play a major part in the next game.
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Post by wickedcool on Dec 22, 2020 15:25:49 GMT
Flemeth in dao and da2 seemed to have fortune telling as an ability (first time we meet her) she helps both escape death because she knows their importance-she states it in dao so yes it’s predetermined. More than likely solas now has that power so varrics line in trailer is telling
Sandal reminds me of r2/d2-r2 knows more about the Star Wars plot than anyone in the story. Some of it’s memories are hidden (new movies) or Uma from the Witcher 3 , or when dr who has his memories hidden. Had to be a curse or protection but it’s slowly fading (flemeth sees him in dreams, can enchant objects, then starts looking in deep roads/eluvians). If I had to guess flemeth sent part of her essence to him right before solas kills her (who else is there?)
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 22, 2020 17:51:01 GMT
I agree with everyone not wanting Varric again. I didn’t like him in DA2 and hated him in DAI so why if all options him again? My guess is that Bioware wants to connect DA 2 - DA 4 to a trilogy or they don´t trust in Dorian & Solas for starpower.
Or they use the only major DAI character who isn´t a quantum character. He can´t be dead, romanced and is the only one doesn´t left the party. But speaking of hate for the love of god i really don´t want Arl Teagan in DA 4. I really despised him in Trespasser also like Varric he had enough screentime. I can´t believe there was a time where i liked the idea of a Teagan romance.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2020 18:33:56 GMT
Flemeth in dao and da2 seemed to have fortune telling as an ability (first time we meet her) she helps both escape death because she knows their importance-she states it in dao so yes it’s predetermined. That wasn't prophesy. In DAO she knows the importance of Grey Wardens to killing an Arch-demon and she saves you because she wants to circumvent the process through the Dark Ritual. Morrigan says as much when she suggests it to you. As for Hawke, she says she can never be certain if meeting up with them was chance or fate. However, we are never told why she needs to get to the Freemarches without being detected (which presumably might be the case if she flew there as a dragon) or why she needed to hang around waiting for the Hero to kill her if she knew Morrigan was going to do it. Then, when she talks about not fearing the plunge into the abyss, that could mean anything occurring in the future that requires a leap of faith. Remember that originally there was going to be the Exalted March DLC which would have rounded off Hawke's story, so there would have been no fall into the Fade in DAI. More than likely solas now has that power so varrics line in trailer is telling Which line are you referring to? If I had to guess flemeth sent part of her essence to him right before solas kills her (who else is there?) Morrigan? After all, that's who Kieran says is the inheritor. Presumably the OG knows things that we don't, because it does have links with Mythal. She seems to have a way of contacting him through his dreams. However, it is perfectly possible that since Sandal in some way had Solas' plan imprinted on his mind. So knowing what Solas plans to happen is the reason it sounds so similar but is not necessarily a confirmation that it will happen.
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Post by Highwayman667 on Dec 23, 2020 14:19:23 GMT
This might be a bit hard pill to swallow for some people but... Morrigan, Alistair and Leliana should eventually die. With all the choices and consequences in the three games it's no wonder that the developers chose the opposite side of the continent for DA4. It's a clear sign that they want to start over from absolute scratch
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Post by wickedcool on Dec 23, 2020 15:49:11 GMT
Disagree as we already know barricades has some role and possibly Dorian and maybe Isabella. The new comics indicate fenris is working with inquisition so inquisition is still an organization and since we know barricades had a role ion da4 it’s safe to assume we will see their involvement in this
There’s no reason why flemeth would send it to morrigan. She clearly knows she’s going to die
Flemeth in dao -takes the warden documents (seems to know when needed) -her opening line”much as I expected”. Allistair -are we to believe you were expecting us. Her response makes me believe she knows the future. She talks directly to use “so much of you is uncertain but then she believes in us. Not alistair but the player
Da2-appears when odds are hopeless . Hurtling into the chaos and the world will shape before you-her line to hawke
It’s more than obvious she can tell the future. Not 100% but at least as powerful as yodas sense of future
This call to kill of major character because you are tired of them only applies to a small percentage. It’s clear that morrigan is one of the more popular characters
Varrics line-kind of person they will never see coming. We’ve got your back and I’ve got your back.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 23, 2020 18:24:23 GMT
Flemeth in dao and da2 seemed to have fortune telling as an ability (first time we meet her) she helps both escape death because she knows their importance-she states it in dao so yes it’s predetermined. That wasn't prophesy. In DAO she knows the importance of Grey Wardens to killing an Arch-demon and she saves you because she wants to circumvent the process through the Dark Ritual. Morrigan says as much when she suggests it to you. As for Hawke, she says she can never be certain if meeting up with them was chance or fate. However, we are never told why she needs to get to the Freemarches without being detected (which presumably might be the case if she flew there as a dragon) or why she needed to hang around waiting for the Hero to kill her if she knew Morrigan was going to do it. Then, when she talks about not fearing the plunge into the abyss, that could mean anything occurring in the future that requires a leap of faith. Remember that originally there was going to be the Exalted March DLC which would have rounded off Hawke's story, so there would have been no fall into the Fade in DAI. If I had to guess flemeth sent part of her essence to him right before solas kills her (who else is there?) Morrigan? After all, that's who Kieran says is the inheritor. Presumably the OG knows things that we don't, because it does have links with Mythal. She seems to have a way of contacting him through his dreams. However, it is perfectly possible that since Sandal in some way had Solas' plan imprinted on his mind. So knowing what Solas plans to happen is the reason it sounds so similar but is not necessarily a confirmation that it will happen. There is more. I started DAO all over again and Flemmeth speak strange. Yes you important for her plan, but the way she answer you shows she know more. She could only rescue alistair would be easier. Her behavior is that of a person who knows what's to come, but she cann't be sure of your victory.
Varric spoke of prophecy in the trailer and that the new hero have non. I think the elven gods can see something of the future and sandals speaking is prophecy for us, but not for the narrative of the game. That would explain why solas saw no other way than creating the veil, becase other wise there is always a way to act different.
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Post by wickedcool on Dec 23, 2020 18:34:46 GMT
It’s easy go to YouTube and watch flemeth intro dao and da2. She looks right at us as though she’s reading us in dao
She clearly knows Duncan will come looking for the documents and when
She clearly knows She obviously knows about sandal based on his conversation
But the n morrigan she only knows seconds before
Solas now has her power so basically varric has someone that even he doesn’t know. It’s in the latest novel when solas shows up at the secret meeting
They have god like powers
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 23, 2020 18:37:11 GMT
This might be a bit hard pill to swallow for some people but... Morrigan, Alistair and Leliana should eventually die. With all the choices and consequences in the three games it's no wonder that the developers chose the opposite side of the continent for DA4. It's a clear sign that they want to start over from absolute scratch But that is bad. they shouldn't make it too easy for themself. Book writers have to deal with it, too. There are greate book series and the writers create extra folders with information so that they don't get entangled in there stories. Why can't game writers do the same? Yes there aren't choice in books, but what are chocies other than different version of the same book. It is all a thing of organisation. And until now they haven't organized, but avoided or rightly wrote the story .
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 23, 2020 18:45:57 GMT
It’s more than obvious she can tell the future. Her behavior is that of a person who knows what's to come, but she cann't be sure of your victory. So which is it? Can she tell the future, in which case she knows what is to come, or can she see a number of possible futures and only thinks one outcome is more likely than any other? Also, if she can tell the future, how exactly is she able to do this? As I say, to begin with that would suggest that some being has predetermined everything that will happen and then has given them insight. So no matter what we do the outcome will always be the same. (I know from a gaming point of view this is true unless the writers determine otherwise but I mean from an in world perspective). Drakon believed he had been granted a vision of the future by the Maker. Leliana thought her dream a sign from the Maker not to give up hope, so when the Warden rolled into town she assumed that is what the Maker meant. Yet the Guardian suggested that Leliana was just attention seeking with her vision. Clearly it didn't believe the Maker had spoken to her. Besides which if the Maker was giving accurate visions to people, that is essentially proof of his existence, which the writers have maintained they will never give. So may be it is not the Maker but some other spirit of the Fade. If time operates differently in the Fade, then maybe Fade spirits are able to see into the future. Yet is that future fixed any more than when we went there? We were able to change the future from the one that we had experienced, so even if Flemeth had seen the future, we can still change it, so she is no longer seeing the future but just a possible future, which anyone could do by thinking up various permutations of what could happen depending on what someone does. So surely they are simply insightful, not gifted with foresight in the absolute sense? So if Flemeth, Sandal or anyone else seems to be seeing a vision of the future, how are they doing this? They have god like powers Yet the whole point of Trespasser is that they are not gods but just very powerful mages. So I ask again, how are they doing this if they are not gods?
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 23, 2020 19:06:57 GMT
Back to the topic. I am a big keep and choice fan so i will answer that in mind. -Alistair has no connection to DA4. The only world state he can be in DA4 is: he is a warden and hawk going into the fade. Than and only than he maybe be in weisshaupt. So a small appearens is possible. -Leliana has more option. (but I only want her, if the writer correct the story mistake (spirit) they made by explaining why.) - Morrigan the best choice. (I have no feelings about her.)
I would like more companion wise: 1. shale as dwarf 2. Zevran (crow) 3. and Nathaniel from DLC
But narrative wise i think of. 1. Fenarel 2. Jowan 3. Tamlen They only join us short.
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Post by wickedcool on Dec 23, 2020 19:16:26 GMT
Looks like there are designer notes that were days I see that indicated morrigan was getting the powers-I concede on that
Well they are clearly more than mages -are they all powerful gods (probably not) . Solas woke up weak and then puts his power into an orb and needs Meredith to get it back. We don’t know if she/him had same powers but in my comparison to today he had powers the others didn’t and one was to get glimpses into possible futures/same with dr strange but it’s not exact
Flemeth just happens to be there to guide the warden/rescue hawk and why is she in sandals dreams
Sandal could be a developer’s joke but trespasser feels like a hint at something else
Just like Star Wars the direction of lore/franchise can be altered
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Post by Highwayman667 on Dec 23, 2020 19:26:50 GMT
But that is bad. they shouldn't make it too easy for themself. Book writers have to deal with it, too. There are greate book series and the writers create extra folders with information so that they don't get entangled in there stories. Why can't game writers do the same? Yes there aren't choice in books, but what are chocies other than different version of the same book. It is all a thing of organisation. And until now they haven't organized, but avoided or rightly wrote the story . I understand your point. I would also agree that whenever possible, organization is the way to sort out issues like these. The problem though, is also with programmers and artists, they have to create countless of branching scenes that might not serve a proper function in the story beyond just validating player choice. It creates more work than is necessary. My point, specifically, is how it seems unhealthy for people to expect to see Morrigan, Leliana and Alistair in every game. We need to leave room enough for interesting newcomers to come in and take the place of the senior characters.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 23, 2020 19:50:16 GMT
It’s more than obvious she can tell the future. Her behavior is that of a person who knows what's to come, but she cann't be sure of your victory. So which is it? Can she tell the future, in which case she knows what is to come, or can she see a number of possible futures and only thinks one outcome is more likely than any other? Also, if she can tell the future, how exactly is she able to do this? As I say, to begin with that would suggest that some being has predetermined everything that will happen and then has given them insight. So no matter what we do the outcome will always be the same. (I know from a gaming point of view this is true unless the writers determine otherwise but I mean from an in world perspective). Drakon believed he had been granted a vision of the future by the Maker. Leliana thought her dream a sign from the Maker not to give up hope, so when the Warden rolled into town she assumed that is what the Maker meant. Yet the Guardian suggested that Leliana was just attention seeking with her vision. Clearly it didn't believe the Maker had spoken to her. Besides which if the Maker was giving accurate visions to people, that is essentially proof of his existence, which the writers have maintained they will never give. So may be it is not the Maker but some other spirit of the Fade. If time operates differently in the Fade, then maybe Fade spirits are able to see into the future. Yet is that future fixed any more than when we went there? We were able to change the future from the one that we had experienced, so even if Flemeth had seen the future, we can still change it, so she is no longer seeing the future but just a possible future, which anyone could do by thinking up various permutations of what could happen depending on what someone does. So surely they are simply insightful, not gifted with foresight in the absolute sense? So if Flemeth, Sandal or anyone else seems to be seeing a vision of the future, how are they doing this? They have god like powers Yet the whole point of Trespasser is that they are not gods but just very powerful mages. So I ask again, how are they doing this if they are not gods? So let discuss of the maker. My theory is it doesn't exist a maker as you think.
I think mythal/Solas is that what the people call maker. Solas build the veil and mythal give the call. If she can do that why can't she spoke to Leliana. Solas call Mythal a mother, when there is a connetion between christianity and andrasticans. if Jesus = Andraste, why can't the holy father being a mother? The narrative said as you say they aren't gods. So there is no maker. He is nothing more than a story which was passed on from person to person. Then a tame dog becomes a mad wolf.
And before you tear me apart i'm christian.
As for the future they see: They can't see the whole future, because then they can't or wouldn't interfere. But also they doesn't see a number of possible futures. What i think they see is fixed plot pionts, that can't be chanced. Mythal is clear and selfconfident in her doing as Solas. So they know what comming. From there acting i can say they have had time to think what to do. So the question is when they see the future snippets or it is like in this movie where he goes through the things that will happen and his reactions to them in his head and seeks the best possible ending. Great movie by the way (sorry don't remember the name of the movie). But they aren't perfect because Solas doesn't see the things happen with coryphus or is Solas not perfect or did he only see what mythal want. There are so many questions. But i am certain they can see!!!!!
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
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Post by legbamel on Dec 24, 2020 0:09:10 GMT
I tend to look at Flemeth's prognostication as the overview of a person thousands of years old looking at current events and seeing the likely paths. She acts to push the world toward the one she likes, but she doesn't know if her chosen actors or ploys will succeed. Sandal, on the other hand...I am quite curious to see whether they pick up that thread again, and if so where they take it.
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Post by telanadas on Dec 24, 2020 4:58:58 GMT
hmm I never thought Flemeth had the gift of foresight, she's just been around long enough to know that most people are predictable. She says herself things have happened that were never meant to happen. For example, I'm sure she warned Maric of the blight so he would try to stop the Architect, but in the end he ended up escaping in part due to chance. Flemeth also seemingly has a big connection to the blight, so that may explain why she knows so much about it.
I think I recall reading in one of the books that prophetic visions are based on spirits in the fade interpreting patterns throughout history. As Flemeth says, is it chance or fate? I can never decide. Personally, I love reading different takes on the prophecy/destiny trope in fantasy. A prophecy turning out to be true doesn't necessarily mean it was fate. Prophecies can come true in so many different and unexpected ways, and there's also the concept of the self-fulfilling prophecy or the notion of rebelling against predetermined events because of the choices you make.
But on the topic of returning characters, imo the more returning characters the better. Thedas is heading for an apocalypse of epic proportions and I want to see what everyone is up to and what their role is (if any). Morrigan is a given because she was intended as Mythal's next vessel.
Leliana, well honestly I love her character and she has a strong connection to Andraste, who seems to have parallels to Mythal. She also had a prophetic vision in DAO and it would be interesting to see how that turns out in DA4 because the vision was ominously about the darkspawn (kinda the reason why I think Mythal is inherently connected to the blight).
And Alistair, well he is king of Ferelden and a grey warden to boot. Wardens will seemingly play a big role in DA4 because of the blight so it will be interesting to see what happens to him.
Honestly all three characters have good reason for returning and I hope to see all of them especially if DA4 is going to be the last dragon age game for a while.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 9:12:07 GMT
And before you tear me apart i'm christian. So am I, so don't worry about that. Any arguments I make are purely from an in-world perspective. think mythal/Solas is that what the people call maker. I've suggested this before and it has upset some people because they are getting a bit tired of everything being connected with the ancient elves. Also they point to the writers saying they will never prove the Maker one way or another. However, that is not the same thing as revealing who actually spoke to Andraste. Just because the being that spoke to her is proven not to have been the Maker, doesn't mean the Maker doesn't exist, just that the deity is not actively interacting with mortals at all. Besides which it is difficult to know what exactly Andraste was told by the Maker and what other people have added into the Chant from their own traditions or desires. Flemeth says that she/Mythal have been gently nudging events down the years, sometimes just giving a gentle push in the direction they wish them to take and sometime a harder shove. Which is why I would feel it is less a case of Flemeth knowing the future, than knowing the course that she/Mythal has been plotting down the years. So things ought to happen in a certain way but as she admits, sometimes things happen that weren't meant to happen, which is nicely ambiguous so it could be referring to anything. Still, the reason Flemeth seems to show insight into the future is because that is the future she has been trying to achieve. The same could also be true of Solas. If the pair of them have been speaking to people from the Fade, subtly influencing them to take the actions they wish them to, then it would explain why people have visions that seem to fit with events that follow. Mythal being essentially the Maker that spoke to Andraste would make sense because what she told her was largely true. Mythal was famed for her cities, so it seems logical that she would have been the one to have constructed the Golden City. Mythal is seen by the elves as the mother figure of the pantheon, so it would follow that the elves, who were spirits who took material bodies, would be seen as her "first" children. The elves also believe that Mythal and the other "gods" taught the elves how to live in the world. Solas also speaks of the Evanuris as the "First" of my people, which could mean first as in leaders but also that they were literally the first of the elves to appear in the Waking World. The argument against this would be that in elven legend Mythal was not the first to appear. That honour belongs to Elgar'nan and he was said to have fought with the Sun, who was his father. That suggests another being responsible for creation overall and it is telling that the Maker is also associated with the sun. Andraste also calls the Maker the Wellspring of All in the oldest version of her teaching, the Canticle of Andraste, that recounts her first encounter with the Maker. This does suggest some other being that was indeed the creative force of the world. Solas could also be regarded as the Maker who spoke to Andraste as he was responsible for the creation of this current world after the formation of the Veil. That would also account for why there seems a greater emphasis on humans in their conversation because the elves had largely gone into retreat after that event and history had been determined by human actions thereafter. Solas responding to someone appealing for help to free her people would also be consistent with his previous aims, together with the idea that he turned his back on the world subsequent to her death. It is interesting though, that if either Mythal or Solas spoke to Andraste, not only did they wish to help free the slaves but they also seemed determined to breach the gates of Minrathous. This may be significant going forward. As for Sandal, if he does have some sort of strange link with Mythal, then it is possible he did see a vision of what her plan was intended to result in with regard to Solas. So that is what Mythal/Solas intend should happen but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to happen.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 11:22:11 GMT
*sees conversation above*
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fairdragon
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 11:59:05 GMT
*sees conversation above* For that I am sorry and you shouldn't read my next message. That is what i thought together. Nothing approved.
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Little Bengel
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 24, 2020 12:23:17 GMT
*sees conversation above* For that I am sorry and you shouldn't read my next message. That is what i thought together. Nothing approved. You do not need to apologize for sharing your theories on the lore.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 12:23:31 GMT
*sees conversation above* For that I am sorry and you shouldn't read my next message. That is what i thought together. Nothing approved. Do you mean next as in the one up above or one you’re writing right now or something? If the former already read it and my post applied to yours too. No need to apologize though. For the record I think you’re probably right too. After all DA4 has ruined tons of things so far so may as well add that to the pyre.
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fairdragon
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 12:51:03 GMT
And before you tear me apart i'm christian. So am I, so don't worry about that. Any arguments I make are purely from an in-world perspective. That is good, but it surprise me. Most people get angry of my thoughts. Than i am happy to discuss with you. think mythal/Solas is that what the people call maker. I've suggested this before and it has upset some people because they are getting a bit tired of everything being connected with the ancient elves. Besides which it is difficult to know what exactly Andraste was told by the Maker and what other people have added into the Chant from their own traditions or desires. Mythal being essentially the Maker that spoke to Andraste would make sense because what she told her was largely true. Mythal was famed for her cities, so it seems logical that she would have been the one to have constructed the Golden City. Mythal is seen by the elves as the mother figure of the pantheon, so it would follow that the elves, who were spirits who took material bodies, would be seen as her "first" children. The elves also believe that Mythal and the other "gods" taught the elves how to live in the world. Solas also speaks of the Evanuris as the "First" of my people, which could mean first as in leaders but also that they were literally the first of the elves to appear in the Waking World. Do Solas really know that or just heard it from someone. He wasn't there!!! The argument against this would be that in elven legend Mythal was not the first to appear. That honour belongs to Elgar'nan and he was said to have fought with the Sun, who was his father. That suggests another being responsible for creation overall and it is telling that the Maker is also associated with the sun. Andraste also calls the Maker the Wellspring of All in the oldest version of her teaching, the Canticle of Andraste, that recounts her first encounter with the Maker. This does suggest some other being that was indeed the creative force of the world. look at 1 Solas could also be regarded as the Maker who spoke to Andraste as he was responsible for the creation of this current world after the formation of the Veil. That would also account for why there seems a greater emphasis on humans in their conversation because the elves had largely gone into retreat after that event and history had been determined by human actions thereafter. Solas responding to someone appealing for help to free her people would also be consistent with his previous aims, together with the idea that he turned his back on the world subsequent to her death. It is interesting though, that if either Mythal or Solas spoke to Andraste, not only did they wish to help free the slaves but they also seemed determined to breach the gates of Minrathous. This may be significant going forward. As for Sandal, if he does have some sort of strange link with Mythal, then it is possible he did see a vision of what her plan was intended to result in with regard to Solas. So that is what Mythal/Solas intend should happen but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to happen. So let's start
1 Now I have to go back. For me Elven gods = old gods and we have the forgotten ones. The sun is a forgotten one or a symbole.
So a litte story i have put together. From greek mythology and creatvie ideas. So the sun is the first on the world. He gets children with ? and they are life happily. But then a new race appears on the world. At first everything was good the sun is a friendly person and help the newcomer get setteled, but the new people wasn't so calm. They broke roles, because they wanted more. the sun see it and don't help them anymore. the Sun have one problem one of his daughters begin to love one of the newcomers (Elgar'nan). The Sun see what will happend and forbids this love to protect his daughter. Elgar'nan gets angry and fight with the Sun. Then the daughter appears and beg both to stop for her sake. The Sun was soft hearted and speak with Elgar'nan and give him the power he sought-after. Elgar'nan married her and she took on a new name (mythal). Elgar'nan wasn't that power enough and he betrayed his father-in-law and took his place.
The forgotten ones can see some plot pointes. the Sun see Mythals deads if she married Elgar'nan. Something like that i think. Maybe the maker isn't a person, but a position (1.Sun 2. Elgar'nan 3. Solas).
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