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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 19, 2023 5:41:13 GMT
I suppose I could've posted this in the lobby, but it kind of fits here. Can't tell you the details, but I heard of an ongoing study, where an algorithm predicted future events. The participants installed an app, that monitored everything they did on their phone, and I mean literally everything, texts, social media, swipes, taps, the works. After some months of collecting data and meta-data, the two were combined in order to create a predictive algorithm. And this is where the next phase of the study began. Now they started to compare the predictions given by the algorithm to actual events. And it worked; In some cases, the participants' actions were predicted months before they happened. And these were big events, like booking a trip, applying for a new job or getting married even. Most of the participants were interviewed after the study, and the algorithm had predicted events, before they had first thought of them. To me, that's what Psychohistory is all about. Person of Interest and The Machine come to mind too. If predictive algorithms get good, they will shape the future beyond our recognition. Not quite, I'd say. What you are describing is predicting the action of one individual. Psychohistory only works on large populations. The entire idea is that one specific entity cannot be predicted accurately but with enough people and a long enough timeframe, the actions on single individuals become less and less important and you can predict broad social developments. The whole point (in the books at least) was that while individuals may have free will and make unpredictable decisions, the error those deviations cause is too small and therefore don't matter if the perspective is chosen far enough out.
EDIT: Sorry for spamming posts. Was just catching up in the thread.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 22, 2023 0:47:21 GMT
S2, E6 The Benevolent Pyschopath Uh...That woman is cold. I get 'doing what you need to/believe you need to' and all that. But damn, don't smile like a Grandma offering some sweets to a child while you're off on a greater good murder rant.
Can't help but think Gaal and Salvor will see through the ruse fairly quickly, but maybe not. Empire/Dominion Dominion has stones. Big, brass and without fucks to give.
She took a big gamble with that little speech. Day is pissed and she knows it.
Demerzel's lack of expression was noted. Sneaky witch-bot. Hari Cool backstory info. Classic 'this person is about to die, so let's show where they came from/how their story started'.
Those...moon shrieks?...were pretty cool.
Not a lot of budget for the de-aging CGI, though. A solid, mid-tier ep.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 22, 2023 2:51:11 GMT
2-6 At the beginning the kid says "she saved all of us" or something like that. Sure, except for the parents. *** Wonder what Ace Hari has up his sleeve.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 22, 2023 5:54:21 GMT
2-6 At the beginning the kid says "she saved all of us" or something like that. Sure, except for the parents. *** Wonder what Ace Hari has up his sleeve.
....more Hari's...?
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 22, 2023 15:58:00 GMT
2-6 At the beginning the kid says "she saved all of us" or something like that. Sure, except for the parents. *** Wonder what Ace Hari has up his sleeve.
....more Hari's...? Touché Given what we've seen and my earlier prediction that Hari is using his own ignorance to overcome the teeps, I'm guessing he survives this. Wouldn't have gotten the whole "I can stand in a herd and you can't" story otherwise. Only now it's a herd of mentalics.
But maybe this body really was just made to get owned to give evil-cold-grama-teep a false sense of security. Everything that's going on with the teeps is predictable. They're a known quantity, and Hari has the answers for that test. It's the stuff he can't predict that's throwing him. ( ) *** Hober's mission has me wondering too. I mentioned before that the Spacers represent the biggest chink in the armour of Empire we've seen, IMHO. Even Day marrying Dominion wouldn't have the impact that a Spacer rebellion would. Doesn't have to be a rebellion either. If they just were to all, oh... die, that might do the trick too. (Not that Hober is there for that but someone like the Mule might.) I wonder if the Spacers are all teeps already. Gaal being awake in the first ep during a jump and the Spacer commenting on it would gain a new layer. *** Oh yeah, I liked Hari's wifey, Dr. Kine. Her commandeering his office, good times.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 22, 2023 20:32:00 GMT
S2, E6 The Benevolent Pyschopath Uh...That woman is cold. I get 'doing what you need to/believe you need to' and all that. But damn, don't smile like a Grandma offering some sweets to a child while you're off on a greater good murder rant. Yeah, and also, if she feels, she need to kill Hari, ok, that's one thing but was it really necessary to drown him in this tide pool thingy? Seems unnecessarily cruel, doesn't it.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 22, 2023 23:37:14 GMT
S2, E6 The Benevolent Pyschopath Uh...That woman is cold. I get 'doing what you need to/believe you need to' and all that. But damn, don't smile like a Grandma offering some sweets to a child while you're off on a greater good murder rant. Yeah, and also, if she feels, she need to kill Hari, ok, that's one thing but was it really necessary to drown him in this tide pool thingy? Seems unnecessarily cruel, doesn't it. Exactly. Hence the benevolent psychopath tag. She's just a bit too weird for it all to be on the up and up.
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 23, 2023 13:22:38 GMT
Sorry guys, I'll participate when the forum stays up again. Bit too frustrating right now.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 23, 2023 15:11:58 GMT
Sorry guys, I'll participate when the forum stays up again. Bit too frustrating right now. Whachu talkin' 'bout? Is fine, effeethings fiiiiine. Proboards can handle itz liqour!
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 25, 2023 19:37:18 GMT
2-7
A fitting episode before the climactic endings for the season start getting teed up.
Ah, there it is. Demerzel uses a perceived weakness on her part (being found out) to fire Dominion like a rocket. Only thing is, because of Dominion's own weakness (her thirst for vengeance) she's self-guided. Well played Dem. And all she did was tell the truth at opportune times.
The net result? Dawn is now contemplating a coup. When Demerzel finds out, all she has to do is tell the truth again, this time to Day, to cause even more trouble. If she doesn't already know.
*** Spacers did something to Hober's arm? Not the sleep patch itself but to it. When she takes off his restraints some of the energy goes into the nubs on the underside of his right forearm. He looks down quizzically at it when she does it too. Maybe some back-channel communication opening up? His escape was, all things considered, fairly easy. She might've shown him how to. If that's the case, her showing him her daughter, and how she was tithed, is really showing Hober the ties Hari would need to sever to secure Spacer aid. She showed Hober the manacles on herself while appearing to stay true to Empire. *** Gaal, "please don't fuck around, Salvor." Salvor...
***
But ending on the same cliffhanger... pricks.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 26, 2023 2:37:59 GMT
2-7: the postscript that overextended. A lot. I didn't catch that it was Hari in Constant at the beginning. But it was there to see. There's a part that's quite interesting. Poly is suggesting they're being brainscanned in case of suicide, which it turns out is basically true. Constant folds her hands behind her, Hari-esque, and replies, "if that were possible, would any of us still draw breath?"Now, that's quite a telling line coming from someone who appears to have managed digitization of consciousness. Quite telling. Gets me wondering how this all ends. I'm down with ascension themes in sci-fi. Love em actually. *** There's a quick scene where Day is pouting to Dem that he's losing her, but she'll always be welcome. Couched in that, is another telling line. "My children, even if they somehow don't resemble me. They will be Empire, just the same."You can almost see the gears whirling, smoking, and shifting behind Dem's eyes after Day drops that bomb and exeunts stage-left Did he just tacitly legitimize his offspring in Dem's code? That would mean her enslavement would continue on for quite a bit longer than if she'd been able to divorce the notion in her head. (ala copy-decay Cleon neck-twisting.) Obviously for Dem that scale of time's not a big deal. She even uses it as a threat to Dominion later. But still. It's a crimp in her plans. I almost pity Day. He isn't a self-made villain, he's on preconditioned ground. Demerzel has made him what she needed him to be. She's nursemaid, mother, lover, confidante, and a fun secret to keep from everyone else. She's everything to him. On purpose. He's been this way for so long. Day after... day... ( I'm sorry I couldn't resist ) ...that the lines of nurture and nature blur. *** Telepaths who are conditioning themselves not to empathize and sympathize with beings they consider lesser. "Yeah our food screams, so what?"
Ahhh. I see why these sheeple are so benignly going along with the evil grama. Either she's conditioning them on purpose, or she's just as much a product of it herself. *** Hober's negotiating. Was thinking this the entire time but forgot to mention it earlier. He really ought to've led with "we'll teach you how to synthesize it for yourselves" rather than "we'll supply it to you instead." Granted there might be more to it, I even think so flatly stated, but my first instinct was that. "Teach a man to fish."
*** Riose and his lover getting the afterburn of a hyperjump... kek
Okay, they seem advanced enough to have a cure for cancer, but that also seems like-to-give them all the cancers; at once. They can still cure 4th and 5th dimensional cancers right? Right? *** She-Is-Center. She-is-cool. She-is-liked.
*** When Hober escapes it's set to auto-pilot. Just FYI. *** Nother aside, actress portraying Dominion is really selling it. She hasn't relented on the swooshybitch persona and she continually leads with her teeth. But she hasn't stopped. It's not affectation. Or, rather, it is, but it's well done. It wasn't one episode to make it, she's playing it. *** I haven't given up on how shitty lil'shit Dawn can be. The question of who sent the assassins is still up in the air. Day even wonders if it was the Foundation. Dominion trying to play Dawn as her pawn, only to have him revealed as the one who sent the assassins (which means he was successfully manipulated by Dem) would be a perfect reveal.
Cleons have acted pretty, well, pretty fuckin' stupid lately. Day caught Dominion scanning the bedroom early on but the guy is 97% an imperial lord. His, Dusk's, and(?) Dawn's stupidity, it's stretching things for me.
One of them must be up to something. Day already has his plot, Dusk is spoken for. He's the wall which Enjoiner Rue gets to bounce her conflicts off of. (I say it that way but I do like the plot.) That just leaves. Lil. Shit. Dawn. It's even a bit of a natural pendulum swing in terms of seasons and technical level writing. Dawn was shit on last season. He's been presented as the "duped", that sets, er, precedence in the viewer. To have him come out as a bit of a mastermind would demonstrate some forward thinking on the writers part. Not unimaginably clever, but still neat; on a timescale of seasons rather than episodes. ... That or, ya know. It's the end for them and they all really are that inbred now. I'm open to it.
*** Gaal seems to have a plan. She keeps telling Salvor to shut up. I love that Salvor is her plan-wrecker. Wreck it, Salvor. Salvor continues to be the sole voice of reason and common sense. I hope she retains her verisimilitude if she hits her own arc again. (if/when)
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Post by skekSil on Aug 26, 2023 19:49:51 GMT
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 27, 2023 11:27:10 GMT
S2E7 Uh...yeah... I actually don't know what to think - or say, really - after that. Mostly the Gaal/Salvor arc - that the psychics think they can trick Gaal into believing Salvor left (or is still there with one of their own covered in illusion defies belief, given they know she can see what 'might be'. So killing her makes no sense of any kind.
And the Benevolent Psychopath has not just stepped over the line, but hulk jumped over it and smashed it. She's just nuts. Empire/Dem/Dom There's a bit too much going on for the amount of sleep I've had. I need to rewatch it in the morning, I think - this week at work will be much quieter than last, so I should have some time.
These people are playing 4D chess with each another, but none of them can see the all the pieces of the other players. Hober Agreed on his delivery of the offer being wrong.
But the escape was cool and yes. All the cancers.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 27, 2023 22:59:30 GMT
S2E7 Uh...yeah... I actually don't know what to think - or say, really - after that. Mostly the Gaal/Salvor arc - that the psychics think they can trick Gaal into believing Salvor left (or is still there with one of their own covered in illusion defies belief, given they know she can see what 'might be'. So killing her makes no sense of any kind.
And the Benevolent Psychopath has not just stepped over the line, but hulk jumped over it and smashed it. She's just nuts. Yeah, this is weaksauce. (Haven't used that word in a while.) But it is. In my mind I've already moved onto the next villain(ess) and hope she gets resolved sooner rather than later. I suspect she'll be a season-finale type of antagonist though. As enemies go she's all power and no intellect behind it. Reactive. Hari's... proactive. Maybe this'll nudge Gaal into doing something useful for a change?
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 28, 2023 1:00:42 GMT
I wonder if the whole tide pool multi-execution thing is also some sort of mind game as well. Seems weird to keep killing characters off in this way and Ms. Telepath Crazylady has to know she won't get away with it forever if Gaal can read through space, time,people and whatnot. But maybe it all was real. After all, this series likes to do bad things to people in consistent locations. Had to laugh when Empire met with Dominion on his penalty bench. Remember how his predecessor de-stroyed the rebel gardener lady on that bench ("We found your family, your extended family and all your friends, everyone you ever met, 2856 people total and we killed them all." )? Well, so here we are again, another family murder spree revealed for the sake of cruelty. Same shit, different ... Day (that one was for you GhostofFuckIt ). In any case, you see that bench, you know it's getting ugly. Anyway, not much more to say after 2.7. Let's see where this season will end up.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 28, 2023 1:08:41 GMT
"Penalty Bench"
Love it.
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Post by GhostofFuckIt on Aug 28, 2023 2:02:41 GMT
the whole tide pool multi-execution thing is also some sort of mind game as well. Seems weird to keep killing characters off in this way This method of execution seems like some "no bloodshed" tradition. Maybe if one of them kills someone directly the others can see that somehow? Either way, needed more explanation. Reminds me of the jankiness of early season 1 Gaal\Rayche plot. The writing team seems to be trying to set up a twist at the expense of good storytelling.
Yup, that's gonna stick.
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 29, 2023 11:47:56 GMT
Psychohistory only works on large populations. Well obviously I don't think that we now have the means to predict the future. I meant that we can use math to predict future events in small scale. Which is still very scary. What you are describing is predicting the action of one individual. Yes, something psychohistory was unable to do. edit: Actually, I don't see why we couldn't scale that up.
Free will may be going the way of the Dodo, something I certainly didn't see coming. Although, I have suspected something like that for quite some time. But we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by rewindbutton on Aug 29, 2023 12:23:19 GMT
I still don't like where the show is going. That said.. In the books, spacers were the offspring of the first colonists. The term was used way, way before the Empire, around 4000AD, some 8000 years before the Empire. In the show, spacers feel like a rip-off from dune. Regarding Demerzel, it should be noted that in the books, telepathic robots were a a thing. I wouldn't be too surprised, if the show-runners stole the idea.
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Post by rewindbutton on Sept 2, 2023 8:20:05 GMT
I liked episode 8 a lot, but there's a problem (when isn't there ). So far, I've liked episodes 6 and 8 the most, episode 7 not so much. I thought there must be a connection between episodes 6 and 8, but there isn't, they have different writers and directors. In fact, episodes 6, 7 and 8 have nothing in common. Which explains a lot, like why it sometimes feels like an anthology. Anyway, great episode, great lore and good reveals, keep it coming please.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 3, 2023 20:56:41 GMT
I really, really liked e8... Question, to make sure I've understood this moment correctly; Salvor went in to the Prime Radiant - turns out it's a tesseract - and interacted with good Hari/Garry - mentioned Hober Mallow, Garry wrote his name down and bam...we're back to episode 1...
So we're running two timelines, right? Or have I missed something really obvious. We were looking for a reason why Garry wanted Hober...now we have it.
But this is a causality loop. Which is madness. The - no longer benevolent - psychopath Jesus fucking christ...this bitch is evil.
She has gone far, far beyond any semblance of 'doing what is best for her people' and actually believes herself to be a goddess. Empire Hober intervening in what would ordinarily have been a routine display of Empire's Justice probably accelerated some timelines here, but Dusk and Dawn (and Dominion) have all really stepped things up. Day is off world, with Demerzel.
While the cats away...
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Post by rewindbutton on Sept 4, 2023 11:32:06 GMT
Question, to make sure I've understood this moment correctly; You could argue, that it's not a causality loop, but advanced quantum mechanics, where places are connected regardless of space-time. Probably something to do with string theory. Any theoretical physicists here, now is the time!
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Post by rewindbutton on Sept 4, 2023 11:37:17 GMT
About my previous post and stealing ideas. It didn't make much sense now, did it. They own the rights, so how can they steal anything? I don't know how much they own, which is the problem. Did they buy the rights for Robots too? If they didn't, then it could be seen as stealing. But the books are in the same universe and they overlap, so.. IDK. I'm rambling, I know.
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Post by skekSil on Sept 6, 2023 19:50:52 GMT
Question, to make sure I've understood this moment correctly; Doesn't it just means that Gaal/Salvor ark is happening slightly earlier in timeline and is the reason Seldon calls for Hober Mallow?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 6, 2023 20:51:31 GMT
Question, to make sure I've understood this moment correctly; Doesn't it just means that Gaal/Salvor ark is happening slightly earlier in timeline and is the reason Seldon calls for Hober Mallow? I think you're right, actually. I had it in my head that there was some intersect between the two story-lines, but now I can for the life of me recall what that might have been - so it's likely that I've imagined it
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