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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 2, 2021 19:19:06 GMT
Which they still failed at. Most of those choices ended up having substitute counterparts instead. ok. Mass Effect 5 will likely have substitute counterparts for the endings that amount to the same thing. (not canonisation) For a series that 'fails at stuff', Mass Effect still sits as my favourite game series and one that primes my emotional reactions. I'm looking forward to '5' in a few years.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2021 19:23:00 GMT
Which they still failed at. Most of those choices ended up having substitute counterparts instead. ok. Mass Effect 5 will likely have substitute counterparts for the endings that amount to the same thing. (not canonisation) For a series that 'fails at stuff', Mass Effect still sits as my favourite game series and one that primes my emotional reactions. I'm looking forward to '5' in a few years. Meh. I'd probably drop the franchise by then. So I'm not really bothered ether way.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 2, 2021 19:30:59 GMT
If the teaser is to be believed, ME4 will take place in the Milky Way after the reapers were destroyed with t'soni even though she can be dead. Someone has posted all remaster endings are valid, yet having t'soni show up in ME4 would make that ending invalid. Then again the guy did say some of the details have changed. Hopefully one of those details is having Jacob Taylor show up in ME4 as the human councilor.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 2, 2021 19:35:24 GMT
Hopefully one of those details is having Jacob Taylor show up in ME4 as the human councilor. I'd love that. Just to have Bioware not shit on him for 5 minutes.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2021 19:38:16 GMT
Hopefully one of those details is having Jacob Taylor show up in ME4 as the human councilor. I'd love that. Just to have Bioware not shit on him for 5 minutes. I'd give it 30 seconds before said shitting starts. 😉
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 2, 2021 20:01:21 GMT
If the teaser is to be believed, ME4 will take place in the Milky Way after the reapers were destroyed with t'soni even though she can be dead. Someone has posted all remaster endings are valid, yet having t'soni show up in ME4 would make that ending invalid. Then again the guy did say some of the details have changed. Hopefully one of those details is having Jacob Taylor show up in ME4 as the human councilor. Of course Liara already appeared (at least in voice) in 4. Isn't Liari the only character (other than James) who can't die? I'd be surprised if James is still around in 5.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2021 20:03:51 GMT
If the teaser is to be believed, ME4 will take place in the Milky Way after the reapers were destroyed with t'soni even though she can be dead. Someone has posted all remaster endings are valid, yet having t'soni show up in ME4 would make that ending invalid. Then again the guy did say some of the details have changed. Hopefully one of those details is having Jacob Taylor show up in ME4 as the human councilor. Of course Liara already appeared (at least in voice) in 4. Isn't Liari the only character (other than James) who can't die? I'd be surprised if James is still around in 5. She can die if the EMS is low enough and you take her on the beam run.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 2, 2021 20:08:46 GMT
]Of course Liara already appeared (at least in voice) in 4. 4? You mean MEA, right? They can't? Apparently the memorial wall says different
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 2, 2021 20:49:16 GMT
They can't? Apparently the memorial wall says different ok.... Looks you can if you play really rubbish... But that seems barely better than a refusal ending. And yes - MEA = Mass Effect 4 The next game is Mass Effect 5 (though I'm sure it'll have a title not a number). Sometimes people do (wrongly) refer to the next game as 'Mass Effect 4' don't they?
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Post by themikefest on Jul 2, 2021 21:11:17 GMT
ok.... Looks you can if you play really rubbish... Nope. My Shepard destroyed the reapers. Mission completed. Nope. Refusal has everyone in the galaxy dead. In my playthrough, the galaxy was rebuilt. Nope. If I were to order ME4, it does not say MEA. If I order MEA, it says MEA. Sometimes people do (wrongly) refer to the next game as ME5 don't they even though ME4 has never been released?
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jul 2, 2021 22:35:58 GMT
Regardless of which ending you picked, the Milky Way is a shit show. The relays are toast. We don't know how many of them there are. We do know the Reapers did about 20,000 cycles based upon the age of the Leviathan of Dis. It's estimated there are 200 billion stars in the Milky Way. How many of them have planets? Up to now we've only discovered 3200 with our limited technology. There could be hundreds of millions. Whatever, it's a lot. So even with the help of the reapers under one of the "reapers are still here" endings it's going to take a very long time to repair the mass relays. It's not like they'll be able to do it in a century or two or even three. Ending without the reapers present will take longer. So the mass relays will be a non-factor. New tech will be used. Mass effect is about mass effect technology not about the relays.
Or if the relays are repaired, it should only be a few of them.
Liara, Wrex/Wreav (they'll pick the canon), Grunt, Samara, Aria, The Asari Councilor will likely be alive. Shepard and everyone else will likely be dead. Unless they want to canonize High EMS destroy. You can have the Quarians survive and Geth still live and say the Quarians rebuilt the Geth but differently and they're not slaves this time. You can also say there was a population of Quarians that escaped sufficient to carry on the species. This would satisfy both groups. It's an ass pull but since when have the writers been shy about using them?
Basically the ending chosen in ME3 won't really matter. Ignoring the moral problems people may have with the Synthesis ending, there are others such as connectivity between individuals. According to EDI she was alive and not alone. This also implied that everyone was no longer alone. The conflict between synthetics and organics had been permanently ended because they understood each other. Also organics were now connected with each other and understood each other. It was rainbows and unicorns. Conflict or chaos had ended. Because of this and this alone, Synthesis cannot be the canon ending. Without conflict there can be no story.
The only two that can exist are Control or Destroy. Control has problems if the new intelligence takes direct interest in the affairs of the galaxy and the reapers are always present, which is implied in the ending. It's a dictatorship whether totalitarian or benevolent would be up to the writers. Still the reaper presence is the problem. You could write about the rebellion of the people against the new intelligence... against The Shepard. Shepard lived long enough to become the villain in the sequel.
This leaves Destroy. Do you see how Destroy has to be the canon? It's the only one where everyone has free will. Where there is still conflict. They have to canonize one and this has to be it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 3, 2021 0:14:12 GMT
Geth still live and say the Quarians rebuilt the Geth but differently and they're not slaves this time. Those wouldn’t be the Geth thus they’d still be dead. If I killed you then made a clone of you, that clone isn’t you. Also hilarious painting of the endings.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 3, 2021 0:16:02 GMT
Geth still live and say the Quarians rebuilt the Geth but differently and they're not slaves this time. Those wouldn’t be the Geth thus they’d still be dead. If I killed you then made a clone of you, that clone isn’t you. Also hilarious painting of the endings. The Geth you know died, when they took that Reaper code.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jul 3, 2021 0:45:24 GMT
Geth still live and say the Quarians rebuilt the Geth but differently and they're not slaves this time. Those wouldn’t be the Geth thus they’d still be dead. If I killed you then made a clone of you, that clone isn’t you. Also hilarious painting of the endings. And the endings were pretty ridiculous when you think about it. You just weren't supposed to think. I haven't even gotten into what happened to the now friendly husks, cannibals, banshees, marauders, brutes, and whatever else was out there running around in conrtol and synthesis. The Geth we knew for three games died on Rannoch no matter what you did, so does it really matter? If you rewrote the Heretics, you killed them, too. You know that, right. You killed the Heretics no matter what you did - blew them up or rewrote them. So the Quarians made platforms that looked like them and programmed them differently. You know damned well what I meant. I don't really care what the do with the geth. I'm with Garrus - "And there went the geth. Can't say I'm sorry to see them go." Even destroy was ridiculous, but it's the only one that leaves conflict open for a sequel. Neither one of the other two do. For either of the other two you'd need a threat even more powerful than the reapers. So who's our main character? Harbinger? But in Synthesis we've achieved true unity: gestalt consciousness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 7:57:51 GMT
If the teaser is to be believed, ME4 will take place in the Milky Way after the reapers were destroyed with t'soni even though she can be dead. Someone has posted all remaster endings are valid, yet having t'soni show up in ME4 would make that ending invalid. Then again the guy did say some of the details have changed. Hopefully one of those details is having Jacob Taylor show up in ME4 as the human councilor. Don't worry... T'Soni will be discovered to have survived the blast from Harbinger, just as Shepard did a little later. She's breathing just the same as your Shepard is shown to be breathing later (despite the EMS). She'll regale the aliens with a tale of how dreaming about Shepard breathing near her is what sustained her... and they are eventually found only feet apart from each other... with hands instinctively reaching towards each other... trying to embrace eternity together... only Shepard was dead by the time her rescuers showed up.
Those crew members not seen exiting the Normandy are those who used escape pods before the ship crashed... and will eventually be found alive on other planets. EDI will be found to be the only synthetic immune from the "red wave" and will survive regardless of the ending chosen aboard the ship regardless of the ending chosen. If red, her body will no longer function; but with any other ending, she'll voluntarily decide to just not use her body again.
Your ending is not invalidated by her presence in the teaser because it doesn't really exist. You only wish that you could kill her off. Proof of death is not present on the memorial wall. The opening scenes are going to include ones removing names of people who were thought to be dead from memorial walls all over the galaxy and who were eventually discovered to be alive.
Bioware has already brought people back to life who were dead (they even said they had a Shepard Memorial in ME2... you know the one where people kept extinguishing the flame). There's nothing stopping them from doing it again... and glossing it all over in some vague dialogue the same way they have always done it. How well the dialogue glosses it over will depend on what you choose to have glossed over... same as it always has. Some dialogues will just "work" better than others... just like choosing when to do Arrival in ME2... before or after the SM... or how recruiting Garrus is the better decision because of Garrus talking about "old times."
All the EC endings are firmly within the canon of the Trilogy at this point... the Legendary Edition contains them and that edition is DEFINITIVE. They are very unlikely to "decanonize" any of their EC endings in any official way. They did effectively decanonize the original endings by leaving them out of their definitive edition.
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Post by wright1978 on Jul 3, 2021 8:46:11 GMT
The more time goes on, the more faith I have that they may not force us to go with destroy. It goes against the themes and makes Shepard pretty terrible, so I’m heavily against that ending in a moral basis and I’d rather have no new Me than them ruin Shepard’s story by literally making him commit genocide, even killing his own friends, and actually act like he’s a decent person. And the more time goes on, the more and more likely it seems possible that they aren’t forcing THAT to be the canon ending to his story. Time and distance from the trailer make it seem possible they aren’t locking us with that. So I wish they’d just be straight forward and say “yes. That’s the canon” so I could at least spend this time getting over the death of ME instead of wasting time hoping for it. Well i’d Argue doing anything other than destroy makes shep pretty terrible and is a betrayal of all that came before and all the dead at the hands of the reapers.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 3, 2021 11:16:56 GMT
Don't worry, destroy is still more popular than your control ending
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 11:44:23 GMT
Don't worry, destroy is still more popular than your control ending I'm not worried. They are not going to declare destroy as the only possible ending to the Reaper War. If they were going to pander to you and only "only destroy" types, they would have declared it the sole canon ending in the Legendary Edition by decanonizing every other ending. Instead, they effectively only decanonized the original versions of the endings and kept the EC ones... and then declared the Legendary Edition the definitive version of the Trilogy. They are far more likely to gloss over the endings using an advanced timeline and vague dialogue options.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2021 12:22:08 GMT
Peeps, there are 4 endings, not just 3. Refuse. Why not cannonize refuse; have the next cycle begin by its inhabitants finding Liara’s (and Shepard’s) Beacons, then starting to use them to face the eventual Reaper threat, and then having the MEA doofus’s show up back in The Milky Way and help them. Shepard never becomes some sort of monster by choosing one of the catalyst’s shitty choices, and he enables victory over the Reapers in the next cycle via the Beacons. Thus entering legend. Just a pipe dream. Biower is going to “screw the pooch” and do something that most will abhor - after all super-cockroach Mac Walters is still around, probably maintaining that the endings are gud……… I guess it’s better to be a monster than to be a fool.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jul 3, 2021 19:50:16 GMT
Peeps, there are 4 endings, not just 3. Refuse. Why not cannonize refuse; have the next cycle begin by its inhabitants finding Liara’s (and Shepard’s) Beacons, then starting to use them to face the eventual Reaper threat, and then having the MEA doofus’s show up back in The Milky Way and help them. Shepard never becomes some sort of monster by choosing one of the catalyst’s shitty choices, and he enables victory over the Reapers in the next cycle via the Beacons. Thus entering legend. Just a pipe dream. Biower is going to “screw the pooch” and do something that most will abhor - after all super-cockroach Mac Walters is still around, probably maintaining that the endings are gud……… I guess it’s better to be a monster than to be a fool. Because according to the other writers, the next cycle used the Crucible to destroy the reapers anyway. That was on the old BSN. This might indicate that destroy will be the canon ending of any sequel in the Milky Way. Refuse was "rocks fall everyone dies," as Iakus said. Which leads me to this: Has Shepard ever been a monster? If you did Legion's loyalty mission, you killed how many Heretics? You killed them whether you 1) blew up the servers; or 2) rewrote them which made them not what they were. On Rannoch, if you 1) let the geth die they're dead; 2) let Legion or Geth VI upload the code they're no longer Geth; or 3) let the Quarians die you were a monster. If you Sacrificed the Council - you also sacrificed 10,000 asari. If you did Arrival, you killed 300,000. So we're just talking about statistics at this point. Shepard's racked up quite an impressive body count.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 3, 2021 20:09:06 GMT
I guess it’s better to be a monster than to be a fool. Because according to the other writers, the next cycle used the Crucible to destroy the reapers anyway. That was on the old BSN. This might indicate that destroy will be the canon ending of any sequel in the Milky Way. Refuse was "rocks fall everyone dies," as Iakus said. Which leads me to this: Has Shepard ever been a monster? If you did Legion's loyalty mission, you killed how many Heretics? You killed them whether you 1) blew up the servers; or 2) rewrote them which made them not what they were. On Rannoch, if you 1) let the geth die they're dead; 2) let Legion or Geth VI upload the code they're no longer Geth; or 3) let the Quarians die you were a monster. If you Sacrificed the Council - you also sacrificed 10,000 asari. If you did Arrival, you killed 300,000. So we're just talking about statistics at this point. Shepard's racked up quite an impressive body count. Worst war criminal in our cycle's history if you did all those.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 20:25:09 GMT
I guess it’s better to be a monster than to be a fool. Because according to the other writers, the next cycle used the Crucible to destroy the reapers anyway. That was on the old BSN. This might indicate that destroy will be the canon ending of any sequel in the Milky Way. Refuse is the only ending of the EC ones that generates a "next cycle." All other endings are shown in the EC slides to have prevented the Reapers from finishing their harvest of the current cycle... Destroy being the most permanent because it destroys all the Reapers. Therefore, refuse automatically becomes the canon ending of ME3.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 3, 2021 20:49:30 GMT
I guess it’s better to be a monster than to be a fool. Because according to the other writers, the next cycle used the Crucible to destroy the reapers anyway. That was on the old BSN. This might indicate that destroy will be the canon ending of any sequel in the Milky Way. Refuse was "rocks fall everyone dies," as Iakus said. Which leads me to this: Has Shepard ever been a monster? If you did Legion's loyalty mission, you killed how many Heretics? You killed them whether you 1) blew up the servers; or 2) rewrote them which made them not what they were. On Rannoch, if you 1) let the geth die they're dead; 2) let Legion or Geth VI upload the code they're no longer Geth; or 3) let the Quarians die you were a monster. If you Sacrificed the Council - you also sacrificed 10,000 asari. If you did Arrival, you killed 300,000. So we're just talking about statistics at this point. Shepard's racked up quite an impressive body count. ME3 is such a radioactive dumpster fire. On so many levels.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 3, 2021 21:10:25 GMT
I guess it’s better to be a monster than to be a fool. Because according to the other writers, the next cycle used the Crucible to destroy the reapers anyway. That was on the old BSN. This might indicate that destroy will be the canon ending of any sequel in the Milky Way. Which leads me to ask questions. The voice tells the short one that they, meaning this cycle, fought a great war so they, the next cycle, wouldn't have to. They find the beacon containing the plans. So the one who found them did what? Went to his/her leaders to tell them a great evil will enter the galaxy shortly so they have to build something that does something, something? Apparently those words worked. So they build this something, and then waited however long for this great and powerful evil to show up, then fired the crucible without suffering any great amount of losses. So whether it was a him/her/they that encountered thing, did it tell about the organic that refused to use it because of....reasons? If thing didn't, I would be curious why? Shepard would go down as the dumba** in all of history. I wonder what their thoughts were about the green and blue? Most likely laughed at thing. I bet they had the common sense to fire at the tube from a distance, maybe from a shuttle, to avoid suffering any injury. Now that's what you call an awesome playthrough. excellent. You know what, those numbers don't mean crap compared to the reapers winning. So no, Shepard is not a monster. Click on the link in my signature to see the amount of damage Shepard can do. It's awesome. Oh yeah. excellent Worst war criminal in our cycle's history if you did all those. What's funny is that can happen even if a Shepard chooses the green minus either the geth or quarians. It doesn't matter. If the reapers win, everyone is dead. You may call Shepard a war criminal, but the galaxy will see him/her as the one who destroyed the reapers saving x number of lives from being harvested. excellent. Go team destroy.
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Post by mtheillusive on Jul 3, 2021 22:03:14 GMT
All this back n forth arguing....it's not aggressive enough! I can't eat popcorn to this! Kick it up a notch! Weakening their integrity!!! I will destroy you!!!
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