davesin
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Post by davesin on Jun 4, 2018 15:10:29 GMT
~Edit~ Really? 49 votes saying they love her and 80 votes for liking the biggest hypocritical bitch in the DA universe?!? OMG! I need a drink.
I don't want to encourage you into becoming an alcoholic but I can't help myself: Don't forget about the fact that many people choose her as Divine!
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Post by xerrai on Jun 5, 2018 1:08:58 GMT
dont get this response. He can't seal rifts either so.... It means he was the one trying to find a solution to closing the breech/rifts, and studying the Anchor.
Solas was using the above comparison to point out that just because a mage does not train in a Circle does not mean they are an idiot when it comes to magic by whatever aspect(s). Its his "polite" way of pointing out how ignorant Vivienne is. Which she is.
~Edit~ Really? 49 votes saying they love her and 80 votes for liking the biggest hypocritical bitch in the DA universe?!? OMG! I need a drink.
I'm not saying she isn't ignorant, but there is a distinct possibility that Vivienne is more aware of the validness of hedge magic than she lets on. She knows Solas knows his spirits, she knows that the avaar have thier own traditions that have served them in ages past and most prominently---she knows that even a witch of the wilds like Morrigan has the skills (both political and magical) to navigate and intrigue the Orlesian Court (or at least Celene). Which is to say nothing of Viv's acknowledgement that shapeshifting is an area that the Circle is woefully lacking in even though Morrigan has talent in it. It's just that she believes that these forms of magic/mages are either inherently flawed in some manner (ex. 'inviting possession') or are not supposed to be validated in polite society. Even if only because she wants to protect the view that the Circle is the only way to 'properly' handle magic. Her jabs at Morrigan and Solas? Attempts to de-legitimize thier skills and achievements even though both have talent and the wherewithal to use it. Of course, I think Vivienne still firmly believes that Circle mages are inherently better than hedge mages.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 5, 2018 1:18:28 GMT
It means he was the one trying to find a solution to closing the breech/rifts, and studying the Anchor. Solas was using the above comparison to point out that just because a mage does not train in a Circle does not mean they are an idiot when it comes to magic by whatever aspect(s). Its his "polite" way of pointing out how ignorant Vivienne is. Which she is.
~Edit~ Really? 49 votes saying they love her and 80 votes for liking the biggest hypocritical bitch in the DA universe?!? OMG! I need a drink.
I'm not saying she isn't ignorant, but there is a distinct possibility that Vivienne is more aware of the validness of hedge magic than she lets on. She knows Solas knows his spirits, she knows that the avaar have thier own traditions that have served them in ages past and most prominently---she knows that even a witch of the wilds like Morrigan has the skills (both political and magical) to navigate and intrigue the Orlesian Court (or at least Celene). Which is to say nothing of Viv's acknowledgement that shapeshifting is an area that the Circle is woefully lacking in even though Morrigan has talent in it. It's just that she believes that these forms of magic/mages are either inherently flawed in some manner (ex. 'inviting possession') or are not supposed to be validated in polite society. Even if only because she wants to protect the view that the Circle is the only way to 'properly' handle magic. Her jabs at Morrigan and Solas? Attempts to de-legitimize thier skills and achievements even though both have talent and the wherewithal to use it. Of course, I think Vivienne still firmly believes that Circle mages are inherently better than hedge mages. She has his limits, not really able to rethinking anything. I not even understand, why people think, she's wise. She doesn't have one wise sentence – only seemingly wisdom nonsenses. Cheap like that "magic is dangerous as fire is..." Really?
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Post by opuspace on Jun 5, 2018 1:41:45 GMT
Really? 49 votes saying they love her and 80 votes for liking the biggest hypocritical bitch in the DA universe?!? OMG! I need a drink.
I think the flaws of Vivienne is that she expects other mages to be able to make their situation work like she did when she has little to no idea what they've been through or what they know. Her tendency of underestimating others who seem simple (Iron Bull, Varric, etc) makes me more inclined to think she's easy to fool if you fit her impression that you're an idiot. She compliments Bull if he betrays you in Trespasser, calling him a clever boy, she admits to underestimating Varric, she's caught off guard when Blackwall knew about the Heart of Spring luxury item, it all adds up to her coming off as carelessly dismissive too often. That said, there are some rare moments I like her. She shows approval if the Inquisitor is angry or sad about people dying in Haven, she is appalled by the unnecessary death of a mage teacher and what happens to the Tranquil and her tenderness towards Bastien humanizes her. I do agree about her pragmatic advice on being careful on how people view the Inquisitor and I was pleased that she covered for Dorian about his love life. I like that she doesn't expect others to do the fighting for her and that she'll face the dangers in person if it's necessary. None of this means I will adjust my decisions to please her. I don't care if she hates me because she hasn't been able to do much damage so far. So far. While I acknowledge that she does help mages who cooperate, she's my least favorite as Divine because of her policies being so narrowly focused and for being too tenuous on her alone keeping peace.
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Post by Sifr on Jun 6, 2018 3:52:24 GMT
dont get this response. He can't seal rifts either so.... It means he was the one trying to find a solution to closing the breech/rifts, and studying the Anchor. The Inquisitor would have been dead long before they even had the chance to seal the Breach/Rifts without Solas' help, as he was the one who was able to temporarily slow the spread of the Anchor, keeping them alive long enough to recover.
Solas: I'm pleased to see you still live.
Varric: He means, "I kept that Mark from killing you while you slept".
If Vivienne had been there, I suspect she'd have advocated killing the Inquisitor immediately (similar to her reaction to Cole), which would have doomed everyone in Thedas. I don't think that's an unfair assessment to make, as Vivienne has repeatedly shown a tendency to reject/fear any type of magic she doesn't understand.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 6, 2018 15:15:47 GMT
I love Vivienne. I like putting her and Sera in the same party so they argue for hooouurrs. It's terribly amusing.
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Post by pavellaning on Jun 6, 2018 17:14:01 GMT
I love Vivienne. I like putting her and Sera in the same party so they argue for hooouurrs. It's terribly amusing. If I am playing a Warrior I bring her Cole, and Sera. She hates both of them and it is hilarious.
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Post by opuspace on Jun 7, 2018 3:11:33 GMT
I love Vivienne. I like putting her and Sera in the same party so they argue for hooouurrs. It's terribly amusing. I feel like such a douche for enjoying how they troll one another.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 7, 2018 3:20:23 GMT
I love Vivienne. I like putting her and Sera in the same party so they argue for hooouurrs. It's terribly amusing. I feel like such a douche for enjoying how they troll one another. Embrace it! I know I do.
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Post by opuspace on Jun 7, 2018 3:24:34 GMT
I feel like such a douche for enjoying how they troll one another. Embrace it! I know I do. Is it because it brings forth imagery of cats swiping at each other? That it shows a more playful side to Vivienne, albeit a viciously spiteful one?
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 7, 2018 3:33:57 GMT
Embrace it! I know I do. Is it because it brings forth imagery of cats swiping at each other? That it shows a more playful side to Vivienne, albeit a viciously spiteful one? Maybe! Tbh I think I just like to see Sera riled up. :dirty:
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Post by opuspace on Jun 7, 2018 3:38:14 GMT
Is it because it brings forth imagery of cats swiping at each other? That it shows a more playful side to Vivienne, albeit a viciously spiteful one? Maybe! Tbh I think I just like to see Sera riled up. :dirty: Naughty Verti... Admittedly, I'm also fond of bringing Vivienne along with Blackwall because there's more references to the romance with him. So in a way, she pulls out a very touching speech from him though I get confused about her having nothing to say to him about having the freedom to love who she wishes. So I guess we're both guilty of liking it when Viv is with our love interests.
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Post by JewlieGhoulie on Jun 17, 2018 23:53:03 GMT
:sobs: it’s been years and I’m still not over it.
:whispers: Vivienne I love you
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 19, 2018 7:26:23 GMT
dont get this response. He can't seal rifts either so.... It means he was the one trying to find a solution to closing the breech/rifts, and studying the Anchor.
Solas was using the above comparison to point out that just because a mage does not train in a Circle does not mean they are an idiot when it comes to magic by whatever aspect(s). Its his "polite" way of pointing out how ignorant Vivienne is. Which she is.
~Edit~ Really? 49 votes saying they love her and 80 votes for liking the biggest hypocritical bitch in the DA universe?!? OMG! I need a drink.
Funny thing here is that Flemeth, Morrigan, Solas and Dorian, just to name a few, have never been a danger even without a Circle or Templars binding them. Why is that? Perhaps, and this is just a thought, because others were improperly trained? If more mages were trained by the likes of those listed maybe there would be better results.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 19, 2018 7:29:01 GMT
I love Vivienne. I like putting her and Sera in the same party so they argue for hooouurrs. It's terribly amusing. If I am playing a Warrior I bring her Cole, and Sera. She hates both of them and it is hilarious. This actually makes me want to play a human warrior next time. My Dalish rogue really dislikes her but maybe the warrior follower of Andraste would have different ideas. But, yes, I do love putting Cole and Sera with Vivienne. Such colorful commentary.
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Post by phoray on Jun 19, 2018 14:54:02 GMT
All you Vivienne fans, just found a mod that turns Florienne into Vivienne so you can dance with Viv. I assume the voice that comes out is still Florienne though.. Dance with Viv
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 2, 2018 11:12:31 GMT
All you Vivienne fans, just found a mod that turns Florienne into Vivienne so you can dance with Viv. I assume the voice that comes out is still Florienne though.. Dance with VivWow, it doesn't just do that. It adds the entire companion roster to WEWH. Thank you for posting this!
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Post by xerrai on Jul 8, 2018 18:03:22 GMT
You know it just occurred to me: Vivienne being a Knight Enchanter is more lore friendly than I originally gave Bioware credit for.
Not just n how it requires skill to master, but in how it basically a near permanent greenlight to attack people. I mean think about it, mages have to get permission to fight. Even when Haven is about to be attacked and self-defense is a given, Cullen has to explicitly state that they have "sanction" to attack the incoming army.
Iron Bull: I thought mages in Orlais didn't fight. You're more than capable with combat magic. Vivienne: Mages in Orlais do not fight without permission, my dear. Some are better at gaining permission than others.
But Vivienne has a long line of retaliations against her early assassins and she openly froze the marquis when we meet her. I always thought that was curious, since mages using thier magic to fight anyone would likely be severely punished. Particularly in the case of the marquis since the claim of 'self-defense' was out (and no one at the party batted an eye, implying that this was a normal occurrence). But as someone who has special permission from the Chantry, this was well within her right as a Knight Enchanter.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 10, 2018 17:08:55 GMT
I don't know if this fits here or not but I recently took Vivienne with me to Crestwood. When we go into the tunnels under the lake we encounter multiple spirits. They aren't dangerous and we can walk through them. Vivienne says nothing about them. Considering all the shit she gives Cole you'd think she would try to banish or destroy them. Then there's a Command spirit. Again, Vivienne says nothing, except a minor comment when you report back that the rage demon is dead.
Does Vivienne really dislike spirits or only when it's convenient to assert her power (like with Cole)?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 10, 2018 17:13:37 GMT
I don't know if this fits here or not but I recently took Vivienne with me to Crestwood. When we go into the tunnels under the lake we encounter multiple spirits. They aren't dangerous and we can walk through them. Vivienne says nothing about them. Considering all the shit she gives Cole you'd think she would try to banish or destroy them. Then there's a Command spirit. Again, Vivienne says nothing, except a minor comment when you report back that the rage demon is dead. Does Vivienne really dislike spirits or only when it's convenient to assert her power (like with Cole)? Her knowledge about the spirits is very limited: it's like: every Fade creature is demon, kill them all, and let the Maker short them out – or at least keep the distance.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 10, 2018 17:19:34 GMT
I don't know if this fits here or not but I recently took Vivienne with me to Crestwood. When we go into the tunnels under the lake we encounter multiple spirits. They aren't dangerous and we can walk through them. Vivienne says nothing about them. Considering all the shit she gives Cole you'd think she would try to banish or destroy them. Then there's a Command spirit. Again, Vivienne says nothing, except a minor comment when you report back that the rage demon is dead. Does Vivienne really dislike spirits or only when it's convenient to assert her power (like with Cole)? Her knowledge about the spirits is very limited: it's like: every Fade creature is demon, kill them all, and let the Maker short them out – or at least keep the distance.I get that. Solas outstrips her knowledge in obvious ways even without knowing he's an ancient elven god. That wasn't my point, though. She didn't make comments or try to kill them, which is out of character.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 10, 2018 17:34:06 GMT
Her knowledge about the spirits is very limited: it's like: every Fade creature is demon, kill them all, and let the Maker short them out – or at least keep the distance.I get that. Solas outstrips her knowledge in obvious ways even without knowing he's an ancient elven god. That wasn't my point, though. She didn't make comments or try to kill them, which is out of character. I don't think, it's more in character if she kill it – she's disciplined, and if she just kill it, doesn't serve her interest. She's not a world-saviour crusader. And the companions only rarely turns against the protagonist's decision openly and actively – even if that would be logical according to their character.
But I now curious, how she behave at Imshael.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 10, 2018 19:27:34 GMT
I don't know if this fits here or not but I recently took Vivienne with me to Crestwood. When we go into the tunnels under the lake we encounter multiple spirits. They aren't dangerous and we can walk through them. Vivienne says nothing about them. Considering all the shit she gives Cole you'd think she would try to banish or destroy them. Then there's a Command spirit. Again, Vivienne says nothing, except a minor comment when you report back that the rage demon is dead. Does Vivienne really dislike spirits or only when it's convenient to assert her power (like with Cole)? I think that’s just a case of lore-gameplay segregation. Bioware didn’t see a need to use resources to have her comment when no other companion would comment.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 10, 2018 19:34:42 GMT
I don't know if this fits here or not but I recently took Vivienne with me to Crestwood. When we go into the tunnels under the lake we encounter multiple spirits. They aren't dangerous and we can walk through them. Vivienne says nothing about them. Considering all the shit she gives Cole you'd think she would try to banish or destroy them. Then there's a Command spirit. Again, Vivienne says nothing, except a minor comment when you report back that the rage demon is dead. Does Vivienne really dislike spirits or only when it's convenient to assert her power (like with Cole)? I think that’s just a case of lore-gameplay segregation. Bioware didn’t see a need to use resources to have her comment when no other companion would comment. I do get gameplay. I have this tendency to poke at gameplay rules when they contradict lore.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 11, 2018 14:41:33 GMT
I don't know if this fits here or not but I recently took Vivienne with me to Crestwood. When we go into the tunnels under the lake we encounter multiple spirits. They aren't dangerous and we can walk through them. Vivienne says nothing about them. Considering all the shit she gives Cole you'd think she would try to banish or destroy them. Then there's a Command spirit. Again, Vivienne says nothing, except a minor comment when you report back that the rage demon is dead. Does Vivienne really dislike spirits or only when it's convenient to assert her power (like with Cole)? Vivienne has a very strong opinion on how things are supposed to be, especially when it comes to magic.
It seems to me that Vivienne dislikes and distrusts spirits/demons in general, but she can tolerate their existence as long as they continue to act as they are supposed to (i.e. in accordance with a thousand years of recorded observation and study by the Circle).
Cole very existence contradicts a millennia of the Circle teaching's about the nature of Spirits and thus stands as a direct affront to Vivienne's worldview. He challenges everything she thought she knew about the world, which is why she reacts with such hostility towards him.
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