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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 28, 2021 13:20:57 GMT
Especially since he would already be feeling kinda guilty over the whole mage/templar war even though it wasn't hawk's fault. At least you could make an argument for Hawke feeling in some way responsible. After all, it was claimed at the end of DA2 that Hawke's name was a rallying cry by either side depending on who Hawke had supported in the final battle. Of course, we don't know how things would have panned out in the Exalted March DLC and by the time of DAI we had had Asunder in the interim to shift responsibility away from Hawke. Strangely enough, in the book, the Champion of Kirkwall was barely mentioned in connection with the increasing unrest in the Circles and then not at all in DAI, with a variety of different reasons being cited by Cassandra for why Varric had been brought over to see the Divine. Still, this does finally put to bed the idea that Hawke was originally meant to be the Inquisitor but was dropped after DA2's bad reception. As I had always maintained, any suggestion that Hawke had been wanted to lead the Inquisition made in DAI was clearly not what the writers had intended for the game but purely narrative flavour with no real substance. The only idea that was ever dropped concerning Hawke was the Exalted March DLC but I believe even the decision for that was made before DA2 actually came out and the whole game was rushed because management was pushing for the team to concentrate on DAI. Yeah I think hawk was pretty tired of being in charge by that point and would have been much happier just chilling with his LI and being left alone by the wider world. I mean in DA2 he tries to bring his family fortune back and so on but he isn't trying to become vicount but seems to get roped into that position of champion by accident and then gets stuck with the S*** storm that follows in act 3 of DA2. With both sides trying to enlist his support and then to make matters worse dip sh** anders blows up the chantry while hawk's right there which forces him to get involved. You really got to feel bad for hawk who was just trying to prosper and gets dragged into everything. I mean he made his fortune by killing darkspawn which I think all can agree is a good thing for the world and wasn't him screwing over everyone to get wealthy. Even in that he gets screwed over by varric's brother. I really liked the tresspasser epilogue for hawk as it shows that he finally gets to not be in the middle of a sh** storm and just gets to chill with his friends for the most part. Although I do wish they could have just added a sentence saying his LI returned as well and lived with him. While I love hawk I hope they don't bring him into DA4 as the poor guy/girl deserves a rest.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 29, 2021 18:12:12 GMT
While I love hawk I hope they don't bring him into DA4 as the poor guy/girl deserves a rest. I'll second that. And whilst I don't want to see my Hero again either, I would like to know exactly why they thought heading into the far west was a good idea and what if anything they found there. Still, at least I can rest content that my canon Hero was reunited with Zevran and whatever they are doing, it is together.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 30, 2021 12:46:24 GMT
While I love hawk I hope they don't bring him into DA4 as the poor guy/girl deserves a rest. I'll second that. And whilst I don't want to see my Hero again either, I would like to know exactly why they thought heading into the far west was a good idea and what if anything they found there. Still, at least I can rest content that my canon Hero was reunited with Zevran and whatever they are doing, it is together. I wouldn't mind hearing about the characters but I don't really want to See the Hof or Hawke again. Unless they make a remaster or remake of DAO and/or DA2.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Nov 30, 2021 13:27:42 GMT
I'll second that. And whilst I don't want to see my Hero again either, I would like to know exactly why they thought heading into the far west was a good idea and what if anything they found there. Still, at least I can rest content that my canon Hero was reunited with Zevran and whatever they are doing, it is together. I wouldn't mind hearing about the characters but I don't really want to See the Hof or Hawke again. Unless they make a remaster or remake of DAO and/or DA2. I see where you're coming from, now that I have a Hawke whose characterization I need to worry about, but it might be wise to prepare for disappointment. Apparently they're planning to give whoever you didn't sacrifice in the Fade a part in (or after) DA4.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 30, 2021 15:33:35 GMT
Apparently they're planning to give whoever you didn't sacrifice in the Fade a part in (or after) DA4. Oh, where did you hear that? Was it just speculation on the part of fans or something from the team?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Nov 30, 2021 17:17:30 GMT
Apparently they're planning to give whoever you didn't sacrifice in the Fade a part in (or after) DA4. Oh, where did you hear that? Was it just speculation on the part of fans or something from the team? Tv Tropes, so probably the latter? That's why I said "apparently," but I probably still should have been clearer on how much salt to take this with.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 30, 2021 21:03:04 GMT
v Tropes, so probably the latter? That's why I said "apparently," but I probably still should have been clearer on how much salt to take this with Well, of course, if you ignore Trespasser with respect to Hawke, then the end of DAI left the Fade survivor up at Weisshauppt, presumably immersed in the Grey Warden internal conflict. Now, since Hawke is the only survivor who isn't a Grey Warden and thus has no real reason to stay up there, it is possible they could replace them with a placeholder generic Warden if they survived but otherwise the survivor could be involved in the same way they were in DAI. After all, I'd be very disappointed if they didn't follow up on that Grey Warden plot thread that was otherwise unresolved and we have seen several pieces of concept art that clearly seem to be Weisshauppt fortress but the Fade survivor isn't essential to furthering the narrative, they just provide continuity with DAI.
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Post by ergates on Dec 6, 2021 16:47:41 GMT
Much as I'd have loved to meet my Warden once again, I'm glad we weren't forced into some kind of ham fisted choice between saving the HOF or Hawke. That would have reeked of 'contrived terrible decision for the sake of contrived terrible decision'.
As it stands my preferred timeline sees Alistair and Anora ruling jointly and Loghain executed. So the only choice I had in Here Lies the Abyss was between a man I saw briefly in a cut scene at the end of DA:2, Act II, or the Champion of Kirkwall, who I'd spent dozens of hours developing and interacting with. Needless to say it wasn't a particularly hard decision.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 6, 2021 17:30:38 GMT
Much as I'd have loved to meet my Warden once again, I'm glad we weren't forced into some kind of ham fisted choice between saving the HOF or Hawke. That would have reeked of ' contrived terrible decision for the sake of contrived terrible decision'. As it stands my preferred timeline sees Alistair and Anora ruling jointly and Loghain executed. So the only choice I had in Here Lies the Abyss was between a man I saw briefly in a cut scene at the end of DA:2, Act II, or the Champion of Kirkwall, who I'd spent dozens of hours developing and interacting with. Needless to say it wasn't a particularly hard decision. Yeah I always have loghain or stroud in that position. The idea of choosing between alistar and hawke is something I have no desire to do.
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Post by ergates on Dec 6, 2021 17:48:42 GMT
Yeah I always have loghain or stroud in that position. The idea of choosing between alistar and hawke is something I have no desire to do. Sheesh, yeah. That would be a ghastly choice. Bioware can keep that one.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2021 8:38:41 GMT
That would have reeked of ' contrived terrible decision for the sake of contrived terrible decision'. True but that clearly was their original intent; hence Leliana's remarks at the end of DA2. The disappearance of both the Hero and the Champion at the same time was thought by Leliana to be connected. As it turned out, it wasn't. Also,wouldn't you say that sending the Hero off on some vague quest for a cure "in the west" was also very contrived to explain why they weren't mixed up in the whole Grey Warden business? Then instead of being consistent and leaving all versions of the Hero out west, wherever that might be, still searching at the end of DAI, they had the one in a romance with Leliana reunited with her. So were they successful or did they give it up as a dead end? Why couldn't they have had a similar slide reuniting the Hero with Alistair/Anora on the throne? What about the Hero who is jointly in the Wardens with a romanced Alistair?* I'm hoping we at least get a codex in DA4 explaining that one. *I've actually quietly dropped that world state for the same reason as you; I really wouldn't want to choose between Alistair and Hawke, particularly when my Hero is still alive and in love with Alistair. Can you imagine, they find a cure for them both, only to be told that Alistair died in the Fade whilst they were away. Anyway, that just wouldn't happen because if she was off looking for a cure in the far west, she'd have taken Alistair along with her. Hence that world state no longer being a valid one.
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 7, 2021 10:48:51 GMT
Heh, thank god they didn't do that. I generally don't like contrived drama choices where you are denied your chance to actually fight the danger you're facing and are instead forced to pick who takes one for the team and gets to unsubscribe from life. Chargers vs bunch of horned people on a ship anyone? Drack's scouts and Salarian pathfinder? Kaidan and Ashley? Why do they like this crap so much?
But imagine spending hours in the character generator to faithfully recreate your Warden and your Hawke, only to be reduced to the choice who has to die just so the Inquidunce can live? And then have either Varric or Morrigan/Leliana make you feel like a terrible person afterwards?
Uh, no thank you.
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Post by ergates on Dec 7, 2021 12:48:39 GMT
Also,wouldn't you say that sending the Hero off on some vague quest for a cure "in the west" was also very contrived to explain why they weren't mixed up in the whole Grey Warden business? I agree, yet at the same time from the perspective of my own timeline it makes sense, and has a certain elegance to it. My canon Warden's in a relationship with Morrigan, who is independent-minded enough to have no issues being apart from her beloved and spending her time at Skyhold, and more so in that she has a son who needs keeping an eye upon, and the places the Warden is going to seek answers to The Calling are no place for a kid - so it all kind of adds up from my canon point of view. I also find it plausible that the Warden might be on such a mission. He's already been given some insights into this matter from his drinking of the tainted blood in Warden's Keep, interactions with Avernus, and of course from the Dark Ritual. It kind of makes sense that he might be looking for answers. But yeah, it's also contrived excuse from the game developers, and one that makes far less sense from the perspective of a female HOF who did not take part in the ritual, or one who romanced someone other than Morrigan.
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Post by ergates on Dec 7, 2021 13:09:36 GMT
Chargers vs bunch of horned people on a ship anyone? Drack's scouts and Salarian pathfinder? Kaidan and Ashley? Why do they like this crap so much? All those are good examples of contrived choices, though to be fair Hawke vs [whoever] is probably the least heavy handed of them, given that the plot at least makes a modicum of sense from the perspective of there only being six of you in the fade, and your path to the rift is blocked by King Boris the Spider, so I guess I can accept the 'someone must stay to distract it' line. It's at least relatively fair, though obviously in 'real life' a better option might be just to rush part the big clunky damned thing, or all six of you fight it, and then make a mad rush at the last moment.. whatever, I can live with that one. The other contrived choices, not so much. Chargers vs Quanari is just plain gobbledegook, it's the classic example of ' contrived difficult choice for the sake of difficult choice' (not that I found the choice particularly difficult). We already know from Mark of the Assassin that the Quanari do not just make their members auto-Tal Vashoth after one mistake or failed mission, they're not that unforgiving or inflexible. More likely Bull would be sent to the Ben Hassarath re-educators, or at least given some chance to redeem himself. More to the point it would have been easy to save the Chargers and save the Dreadnought. Just signal the damned sailors and warn the Chargers at the same time! Split the party, send half to help Chargers, the other half stay back to deal with the rest.... etc. etc. etc. Same with the Salarian Pathfinder vs Krogan scouts. Perfectly possible to save both in a 'real' scenario. And definitely the same with Kaidan vs Ashley, don't even get me started on that one! Much as I love ME:1 that one was flawed from the get-go with the utterly contrived and unnecessary demand for one party member being forced to accompany the Salarians. My Shep would have simply told Kirrahe to get stuffed over such an unreasonable demand - made to a Council Spectre no less! Even then the same logic applies. Split the party. Send half to rescue Kaidan, the rest go with Shep to rescue Ashley. But why leave Kaidan alone with the bomb in the first place? Where was his support crew? Oh I could go on and on.....
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Post by samurailink on Dec 30, 2021 12:40:05 GMT
I'm a little glad the HoF didn't show up. They have pretty regularly closed fade rifts by just hitting them really hard. Would have made Inky feel a lot less special.
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Post by Iddy on Jan 3, 2022 14:17:54 GMT
I'm a little glad the HoF didn't show up. They have pretty regularly closed fade rifts by just hitting them really hard. Would have made Inky feel a lot less special. Ohh yeah, in DA: Awakening! But I don't quite remember the details. Was that all there is to it? No special weapon, magic or trick involved?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jan 3, 2022 21:37:09 GMT
But I don't quite remember the details. Was that all there is to it? No special weapon, magic or trick involved? Well, Justice does give the party something special powers for the rifts. Gameplay-wise, this means he is locked into the party for the final portion of the quest and the Baroness boss fight. Though I usually tend to shoot the rifts while the melee is busy keeping the Revenants at bay.
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Post by samurailink on Jan 5, 2022 11:10:02 GMT
There's also the "Veil Tears" that the Warden Commander closes in Witch Hunt in the Basement of the Circle Tower. There's probably a reasonable explanation but it's always amused me that anyone by just being in the presence of the Warden gains the ability to drop their weapons and punch out a Veil tear.
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Post by cyberpunker on Feb 3, 2022 10:25:04 GMT
My choices to sacrifice were:
1. Stroud (easy, wanted to save Hawke) 2. Hawke (hard, but the alternative was Alistair) 3. Stroud (easy, wanted to save Hawke) 4. Loghain (easier, wanted to save Hawke)
Making Stroud a choice was not the best idea I think. Because players don't really have that much of an attachment to him vs the other wardens. I think Oghren or Nathaniel or Carver/Bethany would have been better choices because players do have more of an attachment to them, and it would not be an easy "sacrifice Stroud" as a default.
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