inherit
217
0
2,752
General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
1,663
August 2016
vaas
|
Post by General Mahad on Aug 4, 2022 1:20:48 GMT
Unpopular opinion: games that have ‘problematic’ elements are far more enjoyable and/or are far more memorable than those that are sterilized for contemporary audiences.
I doubt we would have landmark WRPG game series like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Fallout, BioShock, and the Elder Scrolls if Western Journalists and Devs had the same view toward ‘problematic’ topics as they seem to do today.
Hell, JRPGs would likely have been banned or heavily censored like Australia does for games that ‘commit crime against decency.’
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,889
smilesja
13,728
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Aug 4, 2022 1:45:30 GMT
I find it funny that for all the games journalists talk about diversity and inclusivity, they call for the most censorship.
|
|
inherit
265
0
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Aug 4, 2022 12:04:39 GMT
You dont need journalists for that. A look at the Steam store page tells you the story. Lots of trash and boob physics. So? There’s lots of trash WRPGs on Steam as well. Should we make sweeping statements on that genre based on the many trash games we see? Yes, when there is a dominating trend of questionable sexual content offered. It's not like someone needs to eat shit because it was made on the other side of the world.
|
|
inherit
265
0
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Aug 4, 2022 12:09:14 GMT
I mean I dont mind FF - baby-faced teenage heroes with ridiculously oversized swords on their backs just isnt my thing.
|
|
Hawke
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 1,511
inherit
1211
0
1,511
Hawke
580
Aug 25, 2016 19:27:08 GMT
August 2016
hawke
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Hawke on Aug 4, 2022 13:09:28 GMT
Unpopular opinion: games that have ‘problematic’ elements are far more enjoyable and/or are far more memorable than those that are sterilized for contemporary audiences. I doubt we would have landmark WRPG game series like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Fallout, BioShock, and the Elder Scrolls if Western Journalists and Devs had the same view toward ‘problematic’ topics as they seem to do today. Hell, JRPGs would likely have been banned or heavily censored like Australia does for games that ‘commit crime against decency.’ There is a difference between having something (for example, dead children, as another poster mentioned) and showing it as preferable (sexualized children, homophobia, etc.), as JRPGs usually (again, not always) do. The above-mentioned CRPGs are inclusive and Bioshock (which is not an RPG) featured racism as despicable. Possibly capitalism (Bioshock 1) and communism (Bioshock 2) too. For JRPGs, Final Fantasy VII is about a group of eco terrorists destroying corporate property, which is somehow ironic, considering Square Enix's support of NFT.
If we consider more recent CRPGs, such as Pathfinder, Disco Elysium, Greedfall (more of an action, than an RPG, but there still was some RP), or Pillars of Eternity are excellent roleplaying games, because of the options available, not despite of them.
No the nursery mission in dead space 2 was not fine, killing mutilated babies even in a video game is not cool and you're casually making light of this along with a number of other video games involving the harming of minors is frankly disturbing... You seem to have jumped to a lot of conclusions with very little substance...and your main gripe seems to be that JRPG'S don't have enough inclusion. This goes back to my point about games being judged not on video game merits but by social politics which have no relation to the game in question. I must have worded it poorly, thus I rephrase - dead (fictional) kids are usually shown as a bad thing, sexualized (fictional) kids are often shown as a good thing in JRPGs* (the examples are provided above). If you can't understand the difference or don't see the second thing as harmful, I really don't know what else to say. *Edit. Specifying, just in case. Since they are fictional in both cases, not proposing banning either, but the latter is rather distasteful. Real children already have legal protection from both.
On the second point, games usually include stories (maybe except Tetris), and in story-heavy games, such as CRPGs and JRPGs, the plot and the world-building are essential parts of them. Therefore, games must be judged based on it as well as more technical aspects, such as combat, saving system, optimisation, DRM or MTX.
|
|
ALTBOULI
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 975 Likes: 2,446
inherit
748
0
Jun 24, 2019 13:20:26 GMT
2,446
ALTBOULI
975
August 2016
altbouli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
ALTBOULI313
ALTBOULI
ALTBOULI
|
Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 4, 2022 14:14:23 GMT
Unpopular opinion: games that have ‘problematic’ elements are far more enjoyable and/or are far more memorable than those that are sterilized for contemporary audiences. I doubt we would have landmark WRPG game series like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Fallout, BioShock, and the Elder Scrolls if Western Journalists and Devs had the same view toward ‘problematic’ topics as they seem to do today. Hell, JRPGs would likely have been banned or heavily censored like Australia does for games that ‘commit crime against decency.’ There is a difference between having something (for example, dead children, as another poster mentioned) and showing it as preferable (sexualized children, homophobia, etc.), as JRPGs usually (again, not always) do. The above-mentioned CRPGs are inclusive and Bioshock (which is not an RPG) featured racism as despicable. Possibly capitalism (Bioshock 1) and communism (Bioshock 2) too. For JRPGs, Final Fantasy VII is about a group of eco terrorists destroying corporate property, which is somehow ironic, considering Square Enix's support of NFT.
If we consider more recent CRPGs, such as Pathfinder, Disco Elysium, Greedfall (more of an action, than an RPG, but there still was some RP), or Pillars of Eternity are excellent roleplaying games, because of the options available, not despite of them.
No the nursery mission in dead space 2 was not fine, killing mutilated babies even in a video game is not cool and you're casually making light of this along with a number of other video games involving the harming of minors is frankly disturbing... You seem to have jumped to a lot of conclusions with very little substance...and your main gripe seems to be that JRPG'S don't have enough inclusion. This goes back to my point about games being judged not on video game merits but by social politics which have no relation to the game in question. I must have worded it poorly, thus I rephrase - dead kids are usually shown as a bad thing, sexualized kids are often shown as a good thing in JRPGs (the examples are provided above). If you can't understand the difference or don't see the second thing as harmful, I really don't know what else to say.
Again you have made an assumption about my oppinion and have jumped to a wild conclusion. Let me clarify, im 100% NOT OK with abuse of children in any format, that should have been fairly obvious given my disgust at that scenario in dead space 2. People who sexualise children in any format should be publicly outed and executed in my humble oppinion. The point I was making again is that you have assumed that from one instance in a game that seems to have removed the content in question (I wouldn't know as I have never played Fire Emblem) that this is somehow a systemic problem with JRPG'S which I dont believe it is having played a number of games from the Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest series, Blue Dragon, Front Mission, Lost Odyssey, Nioh, Dark souls/Demon Souls/Bloodborne) etc. I can confidently say I havent seen the stuff you have mentioned. These are pretty main stream games and I doubt they would be mainstream in the west if they encouraged such disgusting behaviour
|
|
inherit
217
0
2,752
General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
1,663
August 2016
vaas
|
Post by General Mahad on Aug 4, 2022 16:18:53 GMT
Unpopular opinion: games that have ‘problematic’ elements are far more enjoyable and/or are far more memorable than those that are sterilized for contemporary audiences. I doubt we would have landmark WRPG game series like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Fallout, BioShock, and the Elder Scrolls if Western Journalists and Devs had the same view toward ‘problematic’ topics as they seem to do today. Hell, JRPGs would likely have been banned or heavily censored like Australia does for games that ‘commit crime against decency.’ The above-mentioned CRPGs are inclusive and Bioshock (which is not an RPG) featured racism as despicable. Possibly capitalism ( Bioshock 1) and communism ( Bioshock 2) too. For JRPGs, Final Fantasy VII is about a group of eco terrorists destroying corporate property, which is somehow ironic, considering Square Enix's support of NFT. [/div] If we consider more recent CRPGs, such as Pathfinder, Disco Elysium, Greedfall (more of an action, than an RPG, but there still was some RP), or Pillars of Eternity are excellent roleplaying games, because of the options available, not despite of them. [/quote] You will notice how I didn’t mention inclusivenesses. I said ‘problematic’ elements. Let’s take a look at the inclusive Mass Effect series and see what it has been accused of by game journalists in major publications recently: -Promoting Sexism (Asari and character designs) -Being Pro-Cop (Spectre) -Empowering Ultra-Nationalist groups (Cerberus) -Encouraging Racism (human and not) -Not condemning Colonialism (more Andromeda) And the tragic thing is that this insanity will get even worse given how video game journalism has gone absolutely insane and developers will still quiver before them.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,889
smilesja
13,728
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Aug 4, 2022 17:03:15 GMT
Unpopular opinion: games that have ‘problematic’ elements are far more enjoyable and/or are far more memorable than those that are sterilized for contemporary audiences. I doubt we would have landmark WRPG game series like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Fallout, BioShock, and the Elder Scrolls if Western Journalists and Devs had the same view toward ‘problematic’ topics as they seem to do today. Hell, JRPGs would likely have been banned or heavily censored like Australia does for games that ‘commit crime against decency.’ There is a difference between having something (for example, dead children, as another poster mentioned) and showing it as preferable (sexualized children, homophobia, etc.), as JRPGs usually (again, not always) do. The above-mentioned CRPGs are inclusive and Bioshock (which is not an RPG) featured racism as despicable. Possibly capitalism (Bioshock 1) and communism (Bioshock 2) too. For JRPGs, Final Fantasy VII is about a group of eco terrorists destroying corporate property, which is somehow ironic, considering Square Enix's support of NFT.
FF7 is also about the corporate exploitation of the environment as demonstrated through the monsters created and it's not like the protagonists didn't get their comeuppance even if said comeuppance is overkill.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,889
smilesja
13,728
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Aug 4, 2022 17:04:05 GMT
So? There’s lots of trash WRPGs on Steam as well. Should we make sweeping statements on that genre based on the many trash games we see? Yes, when there is a dominating trend of questionable sexual content offered. It's not like someone needs to eat shit because it was made on the other side of the world. And WRPGs don't have questionable things placed on Steam? I mean Sturgeon's Law comes to effect when there's a lot of content being placed on a gaming library like Steam. I'm sure even JRPG developers would call out the bad content being put there.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,889
smilesja
13,728
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Aug 4, 2022 17:05:59 GMT
The above-mentioned CRPGs are inclusive and Bioshock (which is not an RPG) featured racism as despicable. Possibly capitalism ( Bioshock 1) and communism ( Bioshock 2) too. For JRPGs, Final Fantasy VII is about a group of eco terrorists destroying corporate property, which is somehow ironic, considering Square Enix's support of NFT. [/div] If we consider more recent CRPGs, such as Pathfinder, Disco Elysium, Greedfall (more of an action, than an RPG, but there still was some RP), or Pillars of Eternity are excellent roleplaying games, because of the options available, not despite of them. [/quote] You will notice how I didn’t mention inclusivenesses. I said ‘problematic’ elements. Let’s take a look at the inclusive Mass Effect series and see what it has been accused of by game journalists in major publications recently: -Promoting Sexism (Asari and character designs) -Being Pro-Cop (Spectre) -Empowering Ultra-Nationalist groups (Cerberus) -Encouraging Racism (human and not) -Not condemning Colonialism (more Andromeda) And the tragic thing is that this insanity will get even worse given how video game journalism has gone absolutely insane and developers will still quiver before them.[/quote] And even then, so what? As long as the game is good and the story is good, who cares if there's "problematic" stuff. Not like CRPGs had questionable additions anyway. Remember old school Fallout where you had the option to kill children?
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,457
Hier0phant
3,822
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Aug 4, 2022 17:11:54 GMT
Compared to WRPGs JRPGs on average have linear stories that aren't impacted by player choice but have parity with their western counterparts in terms of themes, and quality.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,889
smilesja
13,728
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Aug 4, 2022 17:19:43 GMT
Compared to WRPGs JRPGs on average have linear stories that aren't impacted by player choice but have parity with their western counterparts in terms of themes, and quality. And like many other genres: Your mileage may vary.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,457
Hier0phant
3,822
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Aug 4, 2022 17:36:10 GMT
Compared to WRPGs JRPGs on average have linear stories that aren't impacted by player choice but have parity with their western counterparts in terms of themes, and quality. And like many other genres: Your mileage may vary. People thumb their nose at Japanese games but the messages and themes present in the titles are diverse, and shouldn't be glossed over because their values or cultural views don't match up to a westerner's. My only major critique is that Japanese devs on a technical level have fallen behind their western counterparts with only a few like Kojima managing to keep pace, but on average they make very good coomer material.
|
|
inherit
217
0
2,752
General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
1,663
August 2016
vaas
|
Post by General Mahad on Aug 4, 2022 17:45:24 GMT
[/div] If we consider more recent CRPGs, such as Pathfinder, Disco Elysium, Greedfall (more of an action, than an RPG, but there still was some RP), or Pillars of Eternity are excellent roleplaying games, because of the options available, not despite of them. [/quote] You will notice how I didn’t mention inclusivenesses. I said ‘problematic’ elements. Let’s take a look at the inclusive Mass Effect series and see what it has been accused of by game journalists in major publications recently: -Promoting Sexism (Asari and character designs) -Being Pro-Cop (Spectre) -Empowering Ultra-Nationalist groups (Cerberus) -Encouraging Racism (human and not) -Not condemning Colonialism (more Andromeda) And the tragic thing is that this insanity will get even worse given how video game journalism has gone absolutely insane and developers will still quiver before them.[m] And even then, so what? As long as the game is good and the story is good, who cares if there's "problematic" stuff. Not like CRPGs had questionable additions anyway. Remember old school Fallout where you had the option to kill children? [/quote] Exactly….except, we probably won’t have such engrossing stories with such spice in the current age of walking on eggshells. Hell, even if we get more sequels to beloved series they’ll likely be defanged or be a shadow of their former selves. Edit: Quotes suck on mobile.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,249
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 4, 2022 18:53:02 GMT
I have played many JRPGs that have far better characters, stories, etc than most WRPGs and have none of the problematic things being mentioned.
|
|
ALTBOULI
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 975 Likes: 2,446
inherit
748
0
Jun 24, 2019 13:20:26 GMT
2,446
ALTBOULI
975
August 2016
altbouli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
ALTBOULI313
ALTBOULI
ALTBOULI
|
Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 4, 2022 20:07:37 GMT
Compared to WRPGs JRPGs on average have linear stories that aren't impacted by player choice but have parity with their western counterparts in terms of themes, and quality. Yeah I have to agree with this a d tour other comment about Japanese devs not keeping up from a technical perspective, its a real shame as they used to produce the best visual and best stories in the RPG genre but a lot of the JRPGS look last gen from a graphical perspective and aren't always well optimised. From soft games are generally the exception to that from my experience
|
|
inherit
265
0
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Aug 5, 2022 8:09:52 GMT
And like many other genres: Your mileage may vary. People thumb their nose at Japanese games but the messages and themes present in the titles are diverse, and shouldn't be glossed over because their values or cultural views don't match up to a westerner's. My only major critique is that Japanese devs on a technical level have fallen behind their western counterparts with only a few like Kojima managing to keep pace, but on average they make very good coomer material. I remember Koei making excellent strategy games in the DOS era. My guess is console and mobile have seriously transfirmed the japanese market and dev landscape.
|
|
Hawke
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 1,511
inherit
1211
0
1,511
Hawke
580
Aug 25, 2016 19:27:08 GMT
August 2016
hawke
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Hawke on Aug 5, 2022 15:39:48 GMT
The point I was making again is that you have assumed that from one instance in a game that seems to have removed the content in question (I wouldn't know as I have never played Fire Emblem) that this is somehow a systemic problem with JRPG'S which I dont believe it is having played a number of games from the Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest series, Blue Dragon, Front Mission, Lost Odyssey, Nioh, Dark souls/Demon Souls/Bloodborne) etc. I can confidently say I havent seen the stuff you have mentioned. These are pretty main stream games and I doubt they would be mainstream in the west if they encouraged such disgusting behaviour While Dark Souls is an action-RPG made by a Japanese developer, it is not advertised as or considered a JRPG (sources: Steam, Wikipedia). The only issues I could list are that all Firekeepers (passive and bound to their bonfires, the Knightess is an exception to some extent) are women, all Lords of Cinder are men, and Anri's gender being bound to the PC's. Everything else is open to interpretation.
Same for Nioh - it shares some elements with Souls-likes (the stamina bar, "bonfires", variety of builds, visual character customisation in Nioh 2), but it is absolutely linear in terms of story (i.e. no roleplay) and uses mission-based structure and Diablo-like loot system (piles upon piles of garbage to offer at the shrines and a few items you might need), but it is also semi-historical and human rights as we know them did not exist until ~1945. In terms of sexism, all semi-historical female characters are passive (not surprising), all semi-historical male characters are violent. The exceptions are the more fictional ones - Toyo the blacksmith, Mumyo the Yokai hunter (who, unlike Tokichiro and Nobunaga, did not age in 30 years), Tokichiro (he did not use violence personally for the first part of the game), Abe no Senmei the mage, and Yorimitsu the Demon Slayer. On the other hand, as the stories follow the "Great Unifiers", there are frequent "War is peace" speeches, which are somehow more disturbing.
Mostly agreed on Final Fantasy and have not played the other ones.
You will notice how I didn’t mention inclusivenesses. I said ‘problematic’ elements. Let’s take a look at the inclusive Mass Effect series and see what it has been accused of by game journalists in major publications recently: -Promoting Sexism (Asari and character designs) -Being Pro-Cop (Spectre) -Empowering Ultra-Nationalist groups (Cerberus) -Encouraging Racism (human and not) -Not condemning Colonialism (more Andromeda) And the tragic thing is that this insanity will get even worse given how video game journalism has gone absolutely insane and developers will still quiver before them. 1. In Mass Effect 2 and forward, asari are present not only as strippers, therapists, and damsels in distress, despite the initial design. From the games listed above, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Rightous has both Nocticula, Minagho, Arueshalae and Irabeth, Nenio, Anevia.
2. It's more of the lack of accountability for Shepard's/the Alliance shenanigans. Adding a separate meter for it and some negative consequences for committing or covering up the Alliance's crimes would solve it. As an example of implementation, Tunon's favour in Tyranny. 3. The game punishes you for siding with Cerberus. Again, from the games listed above, Disco Elysium quite literally allows to roleplay a fascist or a communist , and in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire you could side with nationalists.
4. Same as #3 - Paragon ("good") options discourage racism. Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder allow you to roleplay a racist if you want to.
5. Considering the power balance between the Milky Way races and the Angara, it is not presented as colonisation, while the Kett, whom the PC actively opposes, are. In Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire you have an option to back 2 different colonising factions in their interactions with the native population (in one of the cases, by assassinating the queen of the said population). In Pathfinder: Kingmaker you are colonising an area and almost unavoidably commit a small-scale genocide. In Greedfall you play as a diplomat representing the colonists' interests. The options available include subjugating the population by military or economical force, though neither is shown as a favourable outcome, which is to hug and sing kumbaya (the locals overthrowing the colonisers are considered undesirable as well). Greedfall 2 is in development.
In other words, the topics above are featured widely in CRPGs as an available option, but never as the only option.
My only major critique is that Japanese devs on a technical level have fallen behind their western counterparts with only a few like Kojima managing to keep pace, but on average they make very good coomer material. Tales of Arise and Final Fantasy look quite good in terms of polygons per model.
|
|
ALTBOULI
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 975 Likes: 2,446
inherit
748
0
Jun 24, 2019 13:20:26 GMT
2,446
ALTBOULI
975
August 2016
altbouli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
ALTBOULI313
ALTBOULI
ALTBOULI
|
Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 5, 2022 16:24:45 GMT
The point I was making again is that you have assumed that from one instance in a game that seems to have removed the content in question (I wouldn't know as I have never played Fire Emblem) that this is somehow a systemic problem with JRPG'S which I dont believe it is having played a number of games from the Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest series, Blue Dragon, Front Mission, Lost Odyssey, Nioh, Dark souls/Demon Souls/Bloodborne) etc. I can confidently say I havent seen the stuff you have mentioned. These are pretty main stream games and I doubt they would be mainstream in the west if they encouraged such disgusting behaviour While Dark Souls is an action-RPG made by a Japanese developer, it is not advertised as or considered a JRPG (sources: Steam, Wikipedia). The only issues I could list are that all Firekeepers (passive and bound to their bonfires, the Knightess is an exception to some extent) are women, all Lords of Cinder are men, and Anri's gender being bound to the PC's. Everything else is open to interpretation.
Same for Nioh - it shares some elements with Souls-likes (the stamina bar, "bonfires", variety of builds, visual character customisation in Nioh 2), but it is absolutely linear in terms of story (i.e. no roleplay) and uses mission-based structure and Diablo-like loot system (piles upon piles of garbage to offer at the shrines and a few items you might need), but it is also semi-historical and human rights as we know them did not exist until ~1945. In terms of sexism, all semi-historical female characters are passive (not surprising), all semi-historical male characters are violent. The exceptions are the more fictional ones - Toyo the blacksmith, Mumyo the Yokai hunter (who, unlike Tokichiro and Nobunaga, did not age in 30 years), Tokichiro (he did not use violence personally for the first part of the game), Abe no Senmei the mage, and Yorimitsu the Demon Slayer. On the other hand, as the stories follow the "Great Unifiers", there are frequent "War is peace" speeches, which are somehow more disturbing.
Mostly agreed on Final Fantasy and have not played the other ones.
You will notice how I didn’t mention inclusivenesses. I said ‘problematic’ elements. Let’s take a look at the inclusive Mass Effect series and see what it has been accused of by game journalists in major publications recently: -Promoting Sexism (Asari and character designs) -Being Pro-Cop (Spectre) -Empowering Ultra-Nationalist groups (Cerberus) -Encouraging Racism (human and not) -Not condemning Colonialism (more Andromeda) And the tragic thing is that this insanity will get even worse given how video game journalism has gone absolutely insane and developers will still quiver before them. 1. In Mass Effect 2 and forward, asari are present not only as strippers, therapists, and damsels in distress, despite the initial design. From the games listed above, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Rightous has both Nocticula, Minagho, Arueshalae and Irabeth, Nenio, Anevia.
2. It's more of the lack of accountability for Shepard's/the Alliance shenanigans. Adding a separate meter for it and some negative consequences for committing or covering up the Alliance's crimes would solve it. As an example of implementation, Tunon's favour in Tyranny. 3. The game punishes you for siding with Cerberus. Again, from the games listed above, Disco Elysium quite literally allows to roleplay a fascist or a communist , and in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire you could side with nationalists.
4. Same as #3 - Paragon ("good") options discourage racism. Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder allow you to roleplay a racist if you want to.
5. Considering the power balance between the Milky Way races and the Angara, it is not presented as colonisation, while the Kett, whom the PC actively opposes, are. In Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire you have an option to back 2 different colonising factions in their interactions with the native population (in one of the cases, by assassinating the queen of the said population). In Pathfinder: Kingmaker you are colonising an area and almost unavoidably commit a small-scale genocide. In Greedfall you play as a diplomat representing the colonists' interests. The options available include subjugating the population by military or economical force, though neither is shown as a favourable outcome, which is to hug and sing kumbaya (the locals overthrowing the colonisers are considered undesirable as well). Greedfall 2 is in development.
In other words, the topics above are featured widely in CRPGs as an available option, but never as the only option.
My only major critique is that Japanese devs on a technical level have fallen behind their western counterparts with only a few like Kojima managing to keep pace, but on average they make very good coomer material. Tales of Arise and Final Fantasy look quite good in terms of polygons per model. Dark souls is 100% a JRPG its an RPG developed by Japanese game developers as is Nioh. A Wikipedia post won't convince me otherwise...Many JRPG's are linear (see Final Fantasy 7,8,9 etc). Im not even going to comment on the other nonsense you put down (trying to suggest a game like Dark Souls is sexist). You seem to focus solely on social politics and disregard any game that does not fit that specific agenda. Youre in the extreme minority in that case, most people play games for escapism and to have fun, not seeking validation via a specific political message.
|
|
Hawke
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 1,511
inherit
1211
0
1,511
Hawke
580
Aug 25, 2016 19:27:08 GMT
August 2016
hawke
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Hawke on Aug 5, 2022 17:05:33 GMT
Dark souls is 100% a JRPG its an RPG developed by Japanese game developers as is Nioh. A Wikipedia post won't convince me otherwise...Many JRPG's are linear (see Final Fantasy 7,8,9 etc). Im not even going to comment on the other nonsense you put down (trying to suggest a game like Dark Souls is sexist). You seem to focus solely on social politics and disregard any game that does not fit that specific agenda. Youre in the extreme minority in that case, most people play games for escapism and to have fun, not seeking validation via a specific political message. Their developers and publishers do not call them JRPGs, but action-RPGs, thus they are action-RPGs, regardless of the country of origin.
As for messages, all art is political, reflecting their creators' views, and games are art. Different people see different things as "fun" and "unfun", unsurprisingly. MTX, invasive DRM, poor optimisation, not engaging combat, or promoting homophobia all make a game "unfun" to play.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,457
Hier0phant
3,822
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Aug 5, 2022 17:27:02 GMT
My only major critique is that Japanese devs on a technical level have fallen behind their western counterparts with only a few like Kojima managing to keep pace, but on average they make very good coomer material. Tales of Arise and Final Fantasy look quite good in terms of polygons per model. Square-Enix's games are a given most of the time (especially FF mainline) since they're one of the few dev/publishers like Kojima whose graphics are usually are on par with western devs, but imo Tales of Arise's graphics not it's art style didn't seem that impressive when compared to a SE game like DQXI (original PS4 version) that had an equally stylized art direction too. It's not just the rpg genre where the Japanese gaming industry seems to be lagging behind in graphics, except for the few outliers, but that's the only complaint (minor) i have for the moment.
|
|
ALTBOULI
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 975 Likes: 2,446
inherit
748
0
Jun 24, 2019 13:20:26 GMT
2,446
ALTBOULI
975
August 2016
altbouli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
ALTBOULI313
ALTBOULI
ALTBOULI
|
Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 5, 2022 17:38:09 GMT
Dark souls is 100% a JRPG its an RPG developed by Japanese game developers as is Nioh. A Wikipedia post won't convince me otherwise...Many JRPG's are linear (see Final Fantasy 7,8,9 etc). Im not even going to comment on the other nonsense you put down (trying to suggest a game like Dark Souls is sexist). You seem to focus solely on social politics and disregard any game that does not fit that specific agenda. Youre in the extreme minority in that case, most people play games for escapism and to have fun, not seeking validation via a specific political message. Their developers and publishers do not call them JRPGs, but action-RPGs, thus they are action-RPGs, regardless of the country of origin.
As for messages, all art is political, reflecting their creators' views, and games are art. Different people see different things as "fun" and "unfun", unsurprisingly. MTX, invasive DRM, poor optimisation, not engaging combat, or promoting homophobia all make a game "unfun" to play.
Why would a Japanese dev/publisher refer to their game as a JRPG? Thats a categorization western countries use. Do you hear a developer like bioware calling their games western RPG's? No they just call them RPG or action RPG lol
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,249
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 5, 2022 17:46:57 GMT
Can we stop humoring the person who straight up said they don’t play JRPGs while complaining about them(explains why they’re wrong about basically everything in said complaints)?
|
|
inherit
217
0
2,752
General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
1,663
August 2016
vaas
|
Post by General Mahad on Aug 5, 2022 17:51:15 GMT
The ‘games are art’ mindset is why games have suffered from decline of quality.
Modern art (at least in the west) is awful, ugly and soulless.
|
|
inherit
7754
0
3,403
biggydx
Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
2,205
Apr 17, 2017 16:08:05 GMT
April 2017
biggydx
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by biggydx on Aug 5, 2022 19:03:22 GMT
If I had to provide input on my end, I think - generally - players who enjoy WRPGs typically want them to have some semblance of choice with your actions. Its a main facet of the genre, especially ones born out of the DnD style settings. Choice and consequences us not a hardlined thing every studio who builds such games has to incorporate. However, I would say that, by trying to give players the capacity to decide the outcome of the story, that brings additional technical hurdles for the games narrative development. This is on top of the fact that the studio also has to drive home an impactful enough story to leave an impression.
While not monolithic, JRPGs don't often have to be saddled with the idea of having multiple options during dialogue, or for major critical mission points to lead to different outcomes down the line. Of course, and I need to reiterate, that doesn't mean I'm saying there aren't JRPGs that don't feature such things. Chrono Trigger is a classic example of this
I think this is ultimately why I brought up the question in the first place. WRPG makers will, more times than not, be burdened with additional narrative mechanics that your typical JRPG doesn't have to overcome. They [JRPGs] just need to ensure the story and characters are put together well.
While I have grown out of playing JRPGs as much as I used to in the past, I still had my fair share of fun with many of them that I did try out. The most recent one I played was Tales of Arise. The combat was fun, but I think the characters hit the player over the head waay too many times with how they review various plot points and themes. Tales of Vesperia is my favorite out of that whole series though. Right now, I'm going through Yakuza: Like a Dragon on Gamepass. It's okay so far.
|
|