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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 16:51:25 GMT
I finished DA2 the other day and Leliana basically said the disappearance of The Warden and Hawke wasnt a coincidence... why??? Just curious is there some reason why both have disappeared??? Also was Cassandra looking for Hawke to solve a problem with the templars and mages or hunting her like she was a criminal???
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Post by phoray on Nov 1, 2016 16:59:29 GMT
A warden romanced Leliana saying that makes no sense. Bioware messed up on that front.
Also. It sort of was a coincidence. An unromanced Leliana who then didn't know how to get hold of the Warden wouldn't know they're somewhere far away trying to find the cure for The Calling. And Varric is lying, he knows exactly where Hawke is. But Lel and Cass believed Varric's lie. Also if Hawke were Viscount in Kirkwall-- Makes even less sense.
From Lel and Cass's perspective, though, without any other knowledge, it does seem sinister that the two biggest Heros in the last ten years are gone from public view.
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 1, 2016 18:24:21 GMT
Dropped plot point, maybe. Hawke's story was meant to be continued.
In DAI, Cassandra is angry at Varric, because she thought there was a connection, but it turned out it was just Varric lying about Hawke being missing in the first place. He knew where Hawke was all along and he/she was never missing.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 1, 2016 19:24:51 GMT
In-universe, I prefer to chalk it up to Leliana having become paranoid after working for several years as a spymaster for Justinia. She's been back in the Game long enough to have become used to expecting conspiracies and seemingly unrelated events having hidden connections. Elaborate conspiracies are Orlesian Empire's bread and butter. A romanced Leliana admits in Inquisition she doesn't know precisely where the Warden is, but knows enough to get a message to them. An unromanced Leliana on the other hand comments that it's been several months since they last were in contact, which has gotten her a little worried. In retrospect, Leliana's belief the Warden had "disappeared" can be seen her worrying why they hadn't communicated with her in a while and over-exaggerating the severity of the situation.
She might have thought that Hawke's disappearance was connected to the Wardens somehow, as Hawke had several run-ins with them throughout DA2 (and Legacy). It did end up being partially correct, as we learn in DAI that Hawke had gotten embroiled in more shenanigans with the Wardens... just not with the Warden, as Leliana might have assumed.
As for Cassandra, we know she also has a tendency to jump to conclusions, something she even admits is a fault of hers in DAI. She was initially convinced that Hawke masterminded all the events in Kirkwall and the Inquisitor was responsible for the Breach, because it was the simplest explanation. Her sharing Leliana's belief in DA2 that the disappearance of the Warden and Hawke might be connected was in-character for her. Out-of-universe, it was probably a dropped plot point that was meant to be resolved in Exalted Marches, that ended up being reworked into Inquisition when the DA2 expansion was cancelled.
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 1, 2016 19:56:46 GMT
Yes I'm guessing the dropped plot point was probably meant to involve the Wardens and Corypheus, which would make sense for Hawke to have been involved. I think we also might have learned more about the Hawke family history, picking up on the revelations in Legacy. The Wardens, who originally imprisoned Cory, being the common link. Cassandra suspected there was a conspiracy involving the Wardens. Turns out there was.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 20:00:02 GMT
Dropped plot point, maybe. Hawke's story was meant to be continued. In DAI, Cassandra is angry at Varric, because she thought there was a connection, but it turned out it was just Varric lying about Hawke being missing in the first place. He knew where Hawke was all along and he/she was never missing. Hawke should totally be leading the Inquisition In-universe, I prefer to chalk it up to Leliana having become paranoid after working for several years as a spymaster for Justinia. She's been back in the Game long enough to have become used to expecting conspiracies and seemingly unrelated events having hidden connections. Elaborate conspiracies are Orlesian Empire's bread and butter. A romanced Leliana admits in Inquisition she doesn't know precisely where the Warden is, but knows enough to get a message to them. An unromanced Leliana on the other hand comments that it's been several months since they last were in contact, which has gotten her a little worried. In retrospect, Leliana's belief the Warden had "disappeared" can be seen her worrying why they hadn't communicated with her in a while and over-exaggerating the severity of the situation. She might have thought that Hawke's disappearance was connected to the Wardens somehow, as Hawke had several run-ins with them throughout DA2 (and Legacy). It did end up being partially correct, as we learn in DAI that Hawke had gotten embroiled in more shenanigans with the Wardens... just not with the Warden, as Leliana might have assumed. As for Cassandra, we know she also has a tendency to jump to conclusions, something she even admits is a fault of hers in DAI. She was initially convinced that Hawke masterminded all the events in Kirkwall and the Inquisitor was responsible for the Breach, because it was the simplest explanation. Her sharing Leliana's belief in DA2 that the disappearance of the Warden and Hawke might be connected was in-character for her. Out-of-universe, it was probably a dropped plot point that was meant to be resolved in Exalted Marches, that ended up being reworked into Inquisition when the DA2 expansion was cancelled. I kinda like the idea of the most famous heroes going missing... it might have added an interesting plot point of an overarching enemy... and make super awesome team ups happen of course The thing is maybe Cassandra was right about Hawke... its Varric telling the story after all and he lied about not knowing where Hawke was... so he could have been lying at some points in the story to make Hawke seem an innocent party rather than a mastermind behind it all... maybe Hawke IS a bad guy I wonder if anyone else famous in-universe had disappeared... would be interesting to know
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 1, 2016 20:10:31 GMT
As others said, it was a dropped plot point. Bioware originally planned to release an expansion pack for DA2 that takes place after the vanilla game, but due to the negative reaction to the game they decided to drop it and implement parts of it into DAI.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 1, 2016 20:19:41 GMT
Technically speaking, Hawke was never missing. Varric knew where s/he was the whole time. He just lied to Cassandra.
That's not entirely correct. They were given the option of either working on the new game or going to work on an expansion.
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 1, 2016 20:37:27 GMT
The thing is maybe Cassandra was right about Hawke... its Varric telling the story after all and he lied about not knowing where Hawke was... so he could have been lying at some points in the story to make Hawke seem an innocent party rather than a mastermind behind it all... maybe Hawke IS a bad guy I wonder if anyone else famous in-universe had disappeared... would be interesting to know I think that's left up to player interpretation. In my opinion, Hawke really did a lot of the things Cassandra claims, but she's wrong about Hawke's reasons/motives... When Varric tells the story, she sees Hawke's side of it, and eventually comes to think Hawke was a hero. But remember Cass thinks Hawke was responsible for the whole red lyrium mess too, bringing it to the surface on purpose, which isn't true. Hawke was also manipulated by Cory, and Cory was in turn a pawn of Solas/Fen'Harel. So it all went deeper than anyone thought.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 20:54:12 GMT
The thing is maybe Cassandra was right about Hawke... its Varric telling the story after all and he lied about not knowing where Hawke was... so he could have been lying at some points in the story to make Hawke seem an innocent party rather than a mastermind behind it all... maybe Hawke IS a bad guy I wonder if anyone else famous in-universe had disappeared... would be interesting to know I think that's left up to player interpretation. In my opinion, Hawke really did a lot of the things Cassandra claims, but she's wrong about Hawke's reasons/motives... When Varric tells the story, she sees Hawke's side of it, and eventually comes to think Hawke was a hero. But remember Cass thinks Hawke was responsible for the whole red lyrium mess too, bringing it to the surface on purpose, which isn't true. Hawke was also manipulated by Cory, and Cory was in turn a pawn of Solas/Fen'Harel. So it all went deeper than anyone thought. Wait what??? Solas is manipulating Corypheus??? So hes a bad guy??? Ill keep an eye on him... I knew he creeped me out
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 1, 2016 20:58:43 GMT
I think that's left up to player interpretation. In my opinion, Hawke really did a lot of the things Cassandra claims, but she's wrong about Hawke's reasons/motives... When Varric tells the story, she sees Hawke's side of it, and eventually comes to think Hawke was a hero. But remember Cass thinks Hawke was responsible for the whole red lyrium mess too, bringing it to the surface on purpose, which isn't true. Hawke was also manipulated by Cory, and Cory was in turn a pawn of Solas/Fen'Harel. So it all went deeper than anyone thought. Wait what??? Solas is manipulating Corypheus??? So hes a bad guy??? Ill keep an eye on him... I knew he creeped me out Oh no, sorry, I should have put that under a cut! I just assumed you had played DAI already.
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Post by phoray on Nov 1, 2016 21:03:30 GMT
I finished DA2 the other day and Leliana basically said the disappearance of The Warden and Hawke wasnt a coincidence... why??? Just curious is there some reason why both have disappeared??? Also was Cassandra looking for Hawke to solve a problem with the templars and mages or hunting her like she was a criminal??? Can you post "No Spoilers" in your thread titles? Otherwise, people are really going to spoil you without even knowing you didn't want to be spoiled.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 21:20:13 GMT
Wait what??? Solas is manipulating Corypheus??? So hes a bad guy??? Ill keep an eye on him... I knew he creeped me out Oh no, sorry, I should have put that under a cut! I just assumed you had played DAI already. Haha no I only finished DA2 for the first time a few days ago and the furthest ive got in DAI was Sky hold with my "lets look at the pretty graphics" Inquisitor... have started DAI properly now though but have just reached the Hinterlands I finished DA2 the other day and Leliana basically said the disappearance of The Warden and Hawke wasnt a coincidence... why??? Just curious is there some reason why both have disappeared??? Also was Cassandra looking for Hawke to solve a problem with the templars and mages or hunting her like she was a criminal??? Can you post "No Spoilers" in your thread titles? Otherwise, people are really going to spoil you without even knowing you didn't want to be spoiled. Just done it Sorry! My fault for being super behind with video games
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Post by phoray on Nov 1, 2016 21:39:39 GMT
Solas is complicated in a similar fashion to how Anders and Morrigan were complicated. But evil? eh. That's oversimplification. You'll still be shocked to see how far his character depth goes. A lot of people recommend him for a first time play through's romance choice. You'll never get the surprise again but if he doesn't get your motor running, don't force yourself. My first PT was a Blackwall with rebound to Cullen and I enjoyed my play through quite a lot.
I never found Solas creepy, although there is a story about a dog that creeps me out pretty bad told by one of the other companions.
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Post by dragontartare on Nov 2, 2016 2:35:56 GMT
Solas is complicated in a similar fashion to how Anders and Morrigan were complicated. But evil? eh. That's oversimplification. You'll still be shocked to see how far his character depth goes. A lot of people recommend him for a first time play through's romance choice. You'll never get the surprise again but if he doesn't get your motor running, don't force yourself. My first PT was a Blackwall with rebound to Cullen and I enjoyed my play through quite a lot. I never found Solas creepy, although there is a story about a dog that creeps me out pretty bad told by one of the other companions. My first playthrough I romanced Solas, at first because of the voice over actor . During the game found Solas to be very interesting character- really liked him in Tresspasser. Can you tell me about the dog story or at least which companion? Don't remember it and now curious- if not it's ok. thanks! Blackwall...as a child (or teen?) he watches some other boys hang and kill a stray dog, and he is disturbed to remember that he does nothing about it.
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Post by phoray on Nov 2, 2016 2:44:25 GMT
My first playthrough I romanced Solas, at first because of the voice over actor . During the game found Solas to be very interesting character- really liked him in Tresspasser. Can you tell me about the dog story or at least which companion? Don't remember it and now curious- if not it's ok. thanks! Blackwall...as a child (or teen?) he watches some other boys hang and kill a stray dog, and he is disturbed to remember that he does nothing about it. BIG SPOILER for the OP I like to think he had a point to the story. Like, what he really wanted to say was, "I used to be a coward in more ways than one. I'm ashamed. I'm a better man now, and I've got to go do something that will take me away from the Inquisition. I trust you'll respect my privacy as I leave you." <- and that turned into a story about letting a dog be tortured.
Kinda like, "Ello, I'm an elvhen god" turned into, "That tattoo on your face marks you as a slave. TAKE IT OFF."
And then people say Cullen is the awkward one.
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Post by fenris on Nov 2, 2016 5:09:30 GMT
Short answer - no, it's not a coincidence. The two disappearances ARE linked, and are explained in DA:I.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 2, 2016 10:45:56 GMT
Short answer - no, it's not a coincidence. The two disappearances ARE linked, and are explained in DA:I. What? They are most definitely NOT linked: The Warden went off to find a cure for the Calling - a purely personal decision - and Hawke disappeared with no canonical reason given.
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Post by fenris on Nov 2, 2016 12:10:31 GMT
Short answer - no, it's not a coincidence. The two disappearances ARE linked, and are explained in DA:I. What? They are most definitely NOT linked: The Warden went off to find a cure for the Calling - a purely personal decision - and Hawke disappeared with no canonical reason given. Excep Hawke went to the warden to investigate the red Lyrium and helped his warden friend with the corruption in the warden ranks (which we later learned is because of Cory), so it IS connected... At least that's how I connected the dots.
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Post by fenris on Nov 2, 2016 12:15:09 GMT
Although, to be fair, even Cassandra says at some point "We though it all connected, but no." In any event, I thought it was connected from how they described it.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 2, 2016 13:03:49 GMT
What? They are most definitely NOT linked: The Warden went off to find a cure for the Calling - a purely personal decision - and Hawke disappeared with no canonical reason given. Excep Hawke went to the warden to investigate the red Lyrium and helped his warden friend with the corruption in the warden ranks (which we later learned is because of Cory), so it IS connected... At least that's how I connected the dots. The thing is, Hawke's Warden friend was not THE Warden, and depending on how you ended the DAO/DAA+DLC sequence, THE Warden could've left the Wardens behind. In any case, the main thing we get to know that all DAO protagonists do, even those who became king, queen or consort, was that they left to embark on a personal mission. What we know of them doesn't connect with Hawke's story arc at any time or place, before or after they left. Or do you have any information to the contrary?
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Post by fenris on Nov 2, 2016 13:34:11 GMT
Information? No, just interpretation with other things we know. I'm not saying they're DIRECTLY connected (i.e. that one led to the other). But I do think the background is the same.
But it's not something we know for certain. Your guess is as good as mine.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 4, 2016 23:20:43 GMT
Solas is complicated in a similar fashion to how Anders and Morrigan were complicated. But evil? eh. That's oversimplification. You'll still be shocked to see how far his character depth goes. A lot of people recommend him for a first time play through's romance choice. You'll never get the surprise again but if he doesn't get your motor running, don't force yourself. My first PT was a Blackwall with rebound to Cullen and I enjoyed my play through quite a lot. I never found Solas creepy, although there is a story about a dog that creeps me out pretty bad told by one of the other companions. My first playthrough I romanced Solas, at first because of the voice over actor . During the game found Solas to be very interesting character- really liked him in Tresspasser. Can you tell me about the dog story or at least which companion? Don't remember it and now curious- if not it's ok. thanks! I think it is this story told by Merill that phoray is referring to:
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Post by phoray on Nov 5, 2016 22:43:41 GMT
My first playthrough I romanced Solas, at first because of the voice over actor . During the game found Solas to be very interesting character- really liked him in Tresspasser. Can you tell me about the dog story or at least which companion? Don't remember it and now curious- if not it's ok. thanks! I think it is this story told by Merill that phoray is referring to:
Oh that's neat. I'd never seen that before. But no, I'm talking about an Inquisition character.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 27, 2016 12:42:52 GMT
Dropped plot point, maybe. Hawke's story was meant to be continued. In DAI, Cassandra is angry at Varric, because she thought there was a connection, but it turned out it was just Varric lying about Hawke being missing in the first place. He knew where Hawke was all along and he/she was never missing. Heavily iterated upon more like. Look at how Cassandra carries around that Seeker book as if they're ready to start the Inquisition right then and there? The plot also matches up. The wardens are missing, as is Hawke, the mage rebellion has begun etc. AKA The world is in chaos. time to "restore order" Except... what happens at the start of DA:I makes them introduce these things as if it's new to them, at least in regards to the wardens, and when Cassandra drops the Inquisition-bomb it's done as if it's unexpected and not something they had planned, making me question what they were really doing at the end of DA2 and when the ending really happens in relation to the Conclave's destruction and the Herald of Andraste's story. They act as if something big has already happened at the end of DA2, that they're going to start their inquisition to "restore order" but all they've seen thus far are disappearing factions but they don't have the divine dead or anything really ultimate to make it warrant their supposed quest for something specific.
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