kizanare
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Post by kizanare on Aug 8, 2016 23:30:41 GMT
I love Elder Scrolls in general, my favorite is Morrowind like a lot of people I think, but I'm also somewhat partial to Oblivion.
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lobselvith8
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 8, 2016 23:30:43 GMT
In Skyrim, I always support the Empire. They have the strength to take on and defeat the Dominion outright. Remember that the Dominion is almost certainly crippled after the Great War. Altmer breed very slowly and unless the army the Dominion lost at the Imperial City was mostly Bosmer and Khajiit, their manpower is in bad shape (especially after losing to the Redguards in the subsequent war). It'd only be a matter of about 18-25 years before the armies of the Empire are nearly fully replenished. I think that both sides make some pretty terrible decisions, but I feel as though the Empire is in a much better position to make the most of what they have. Especially with a Dragonborn leading them. That is what's good about Bethesda - there are amble reasons to side with either the Legion or the Stormcloaks, and neither group is intended to be perfect and neither one is ridiculously vilified if your character opposes them. It's a fairly good approach that Bethesda also utilizes in Fallout 4 and the DLC Far Harbor. With independent Hammerfell, an apparently autonomous Morrowind (since Great House Redoran organized the Dunmer armies during the Oblivion Crisis and beat back the Argonian incursion), and a free Black Marsh, there are potential allies that could be gained to oppose the Thalmor if the victorious group manages to garner their support.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 23:33:27 GMT
My favorite playthroughs are the ones in which I play a Nord Stormcloak. I don't agree with everything Ulfric does, or the bigoted attitudes of many of the Nord people, but I fully support taking Skyrim back from the Dominion or Empire (I can't remember which.) Makes joining the Dark Brotherhood and completing the final mission more meaningful. Plus, being a werewolf is so much fun you can feast on Thalmor hearts from one end of Skyrim to the other and have Silver Hand for dessert.
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Daft Arbiter
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 8, 2016 23:35:23 GMT
It'd only be a matter of about 18-25 years before the armies of the Empire are nearly fully replenished. Except the Empire is on the brink of collapse by the time of Skyrim. The Stormcloaks are openly in talks of negotiation with Highrock, if you don't know that province is pretty much divided between various kingdoms/city states sort of like Cyrodiil. But worse. If you had a handful of houses remain loyal to the Empire and others that wish to break away, it would tear the country and thus Empire apart because that is literally its only remaining stable member state. Skyrim is openly rebelling, Hammerfell left the Empire, Black Marsh left, Elsweyr left, Morrowind is all but destroyed. The Summer Set isles are the seat of the Dominion. So what armies? Whatever the heartland can throw at the horde? Hah, no. The Empire is dead either way, at the very least if you liberate Skyrim you give them the chance to prepare for the coming war, the Empire is screwed regardless of victory or defeat. Hammerfell left the Empire and isn't coming back, and the only other two parties that could assist them are either in open rebellion or considering it. The Empire of the Mede dynasty is nearing its sunset by the time the game starts, hell if you want to be technical it has been nearing that day for decades. Hence "Especially with a Dragonborn." It's true that the Empire is pretty weak, but so is Skyrim. If I have to pick either as a viable contender to fight the Dominion under the leadership of a Dragonborn, the winner is Cyrodiil. More land, more arable land, more people, and an organized, professional military that forces the Dominion to project power with agents rather than armies. Forget High Rock in this (they'll work with whichever side wins, such is Breton pragmatism). Cyrodiil was a mess during the First Era and during the Interregnum, but its overwhelming economic power and huge population allowed it to bounce back time and time again. If Reman could take Cyrodiil and create a superpower, why can't the Last Dragonborn (who in terms of power is more akin to Hjalti than Reman)? It's true that they could probably make Skyrim alone a superpower as well, but I'd rather bet on a combined Empire of Cyrodiil, High Rock, and a weak Skyrim and Morrowind as opposed to just Skyrim with Breton allies. Both sides ultimately want to destroy the Thalmor and repeal the Concordat to reestablish Talos worship, so I feel as though the Empire is the more efficient option to do so.
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lobselvith8
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 8, 2016 23:44:53 GMT
My favorite playthroughs are the ones in which I play a Nord Stormcloak. I don't agree with everything Ulfric does, or the bigoted attitudes of many of the Nord people, but I fully support taking Skyrim back from the Empire. Makes joining the Dark Brotherhood and completing the final mission more meaningful. Plus, being a werewolf is so much fun you can feast on Thalmor hearts from one end of Skyrim to the other and have Silver Hand for dessert. Yeah, the Dark Brotherhood storyline can be problematic (from a story perspective) when you consider the logistics of how the Legion would realistically react to you after the end of the storyline (assuming you don't destroy them). I've played as a Dunmer who sided with the Stormcloaks to prevent any complications with Morrowind's independence, since the Empire isn't in a position to conquer the now autonomous Dunmer and Ulfric's forces also aren't in a position to do anything to deter the rule of the Dunmer. Admittedly, the general racism from some Nords against the Dunmer and Argonians is incredibly problematic (although I am glad you can, at least, help the Argonians who are working on the docks get a fair wage by dealing with the unfair Nord who pays them a pittance because of racism). Solstheim was also a fun place to visit with the Redoran presence (especially with the positive news about Morrowind), the changes that Red Mountain has caused to the landscape, and the Riekling tribe you can meet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 23:50:16 GMT
Ohhh right I see the problem with my character... Shes an Imperial Imperial who is trying to murder the emperor... ... ill say its down to character flaws or something
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 8, 2016 23:53:39 GMT
Except the Empire is on the brink of collapse by the time of Skyrim. The Stormcloaks are openly in talks of negotiation with Highrock, if you don't know that province is pretty much divided between various kingdoms/city states sort of like Cyrodiil. But worse. If you had a handful of houses remain loyal to the Empire and others that wish to break away, it would tear the country and thus Empire apart because that is literally its only remaining stable member state. Skyrim is openly rebelling, Hammerfell left the Empire, Black Marsh left, Elsweyr left, Morrowind is all but destroyed. The Summer Set isles are the seat of the Dominion. So what armies? Whatever the heartland can throw at the horde? Hah, no. The Empire is dead either way, at the very least if you liberate Skyrim you give them the chance to prepare for the coming war, the Empire is screwed regardless of victory or defeat. Hammerfell left the Empire and isn't coming back, and the only other two parties that could assist them are either in open rebellion or considering it. The Empire of the Mede dynasty is nearing its sunset by the time the game starts, hell if you want to be technical it has been nearing that day for decades. Both sides ultimately want to destroy the Thalmor and repeal the Concordat to reestablish Talos worship, so I feel as though the Empire is the more efficient option to do so. I obviously disagree. The Empire isn't a unifier of anything by that point and honestly Mundus would be better off without it.
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lobselvith8
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Post by lobselvith8 on Aug 9, 2016 0:07:02 GMT
Ohhh right I see the problem with my character... Shes an Imperial Imperial who is trying to murder the emperor... ... ill say its down to character flaws or something So you use the face sculptor Galathil afterward, eh? "I learned my art from the masters of the art of flesh sculpture. I studied with the Faculty of Chirurgeons in Cloudrest. I walked with the Hollow-Faced Men of Nohotogrha for three years. I count the nobility of both the Empire and the Dominion among my clients. And yet, I have fallen so low that I must justify myself to a wanderer in the sewers of this backwater of the world."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 0:11:12 GMT
Ohhh right I see the problem with my character... Shes an Imperial Imperial who is trying to murder the emperor... ... ill say its down to character flaws or something So you use the face sculptor Galathil afterward, eh? "I learned my art from the masters of the art of flesh sculpture. I studied with the Faculty of Chirurgeons in Cloudrest. I walked with the Hollow-Faced Men of Nohotogrha for three years. I count the nobility of both the Empire and the Dominion among my clients. And yet, I have fallen so low that I must justify myself to a wanderer in the sewers of this backwater of the world." What??? A face sculptor???
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 9, 2016 0:13:58 GMT
So you use the face sculptor Galathil afterward, eh? "I learned my art from the masters of the art of flesh sculpture. I studied with the Faculty of Chirurgeons in Cloudrest. I walked with the Hollow-Faced Men of Nohotogrha for three years. I count the nobility of both the Empire and the Dominion among my clients. And yet, I have fallen so low that I must justify myself to a wanderer in the sewers of this backwater of the world." What??? A face sculptor??? Part of the DLC in Skyrim, it lets you remodel your character again after creation. Sort of like the doctors in Fallout(which is where they stole the idea from but anyway...)
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Daft Arbiter
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Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 9, 2016 0:19:21 GMT
Both sides ultimately want to destroy the Thalmor and repeal the Concordat to reestablish Talos worship, so I feel as though the Empire is the more efficient option to do so. I obviously disagree. The Empire isn't a unifier of anything by that point and honestly Mundus would be better off without it. The Empire's strength isn't as a unifying force. It's as a stabilizing force. The Interregnum was a mess without any kind of central authority. -Alinor was a hermit kingdom that struggled to deal with Sload and Moarmer raids. -Valenwood was stuck in numerous succession wars because of how many claimants there are to the Camoran throne. -High Rock was at the mercy of tribal Reachmen who constantly harassed their eastern borders. -Skyrim was fragmented into rival states. -Black Marsh got pummeled by perpetual slave raids on the part of the Dunmer. -Cyrodiil was rocked by warlords constantly vying to rebuild the Empire. I don't trust the rulers in Tamriel to manage without a central government and military keeping things in order, especially when there's a strong Aldmeri Dominion (and no such thing existed for most of the Interregnum period).
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Aug 9, 2016 0:28:57 GMT
My nord (the one with all those bounties) only joined the Stormcloaks because the Empire's attempt to execute her for no reason at the start of the game. She vowed to get her revenge. Even after winning the civil war with the Stormcloaks and killing General Tallius, she could care less about Ulfric's plans. All and all she's fairly neutral and only cares about herself and power. She'll still do good deeds to help people but she's a secret deadra worshipper and wants to kill all the Thalmor and eventually rule Skyrim.................at least I wish I could do that in the game. Would be so kewl.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 9, 2016 0:32:20 GMT
My nord (the one with all those bounties) only joined the Stormcloaks because the Empire's attempt to execute her for no reason at the start of the game. She vowed to get her revenge. Even after winning the civil war with the Stormcloaks and killing General Tallius, she could care less about Ulfric's plans. All and all she's fairly neutral and only cares about herself and power. She'll still do good deeds to help people but she's a secret deadra worshipper and wants to kill all the Thalmor and eventually rule Skyrim.................at least I wish I could do that in the game. Would be so kewl. Mods! There are mods for these things! I don't know if you play Skyrim on PC, but if you do, there's a "Become High King" mod and another mod that lets you fight the Thalmor if you sided with the Stormcloaks.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Aug 9, 2016 0:36:11 GMT
My nord (the one with all those bounties) only joined the Stormcloaks because the Empire's attempt to execute her for no reason at the start of the game. She vowed to get her revenge. Even after winning the civil war with the Stormcloaks and killing General Tallius, she could care less about Ulfric's plans. All and all she's fairly neutral and only cares about herself and power. She'll still do good deeds to help people but she's a secret deadra worshipper and wants to kill all the Thalmor and eventually rule Skyrim.................at least I wish I could do that in the game. Would be so kewl. Mods! There are mods for these things! I don't know if you play Skyrim on PC, but if you do, there's a "Become High King" mod and another mod that lets you fight the Thalmor if you sided with the Stormcloaks. Sadly all I got is xbox 360. That does sound sweet though.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 9, 2016 0:38:30 GMT
Mods! There are mods for these things! I don't know if you play Skyrim on PC, but if you do, there's a "Become High King" mod and another mod that lets you fight the Thalmor if you sided with the Stormcloaks. Sadly all I got is xbox 360. That does sound sweet though. The good news is that the new edition of Skyrim will supposedly have console mod capabilities. So if you don't get a PC version anytime soon, you can still try those out in a few months. Might be worth a shot.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 9, 2016 0:41:14 GMT
I obviously disagree. The Empire isn't a unifier of anything by that point and honestly Mundus would be better off without it. The Empire's strength isn't as a unifying force. It's as a stabilizing force. And it lacks the muscle for that. Or the coin and diplomacy. Skyrim can win over Hammerfell, after all unlike the Empire Skyrim didn't throw them to the wolves to save itself. With the Empire you get its baggage, its depleted military and its crumbling relations with other nations. Skyrim can be the foci for the organization of a new Empire, it has the military strength, the natural wealth and of course presumably all nations of man would rally behind Skyrim if it did defeat the Empire. The same cannot be said for the Empire in the event they defeat the Stormcloaks. Like I said victory not their fucked. They can't defeat the Thalmor alone and they have no hope for help beyond the bretons and good luck trying to win a war with just them as your allies, Skyrim tried. On the other hand you have two potential allies for Skyrim, thus by your own standard they'd be a better candidate for stabilization. Three nations possibly or two. My math favors Skyrim.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Aug 9, 2016 0:43:40 GMT
Sadly all I got is xbox 360. That does sound sweet though. The good news is that the new edition of Skyrim will supposedly have console mod capabilities. So if you don't get a PC version anytime soon, you can still try those out in a few months. Might be worth a shot. Oh yeah I heard which makes me excited. Might actually get an xbox one just for the Skyrim remaster. Want to check out some of those mods.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 9, 2016 1:00:45 GMT
The Empire's strength isn't as a unifying force. It's as a stabilizing force. And it lacks the muscle for that. Or the coin and diplomacy. Skyrim can win over Hammerfell, after all unlike the Empire Skyrim didn't throw them to the wolves to save itself. With the Empire you get its baggage, its depleted military and its crumbling relations with other nations. Skyrim can be the foci for the organization of a new Empire, it has the military strength, the natural wealth and of course presumably all nations of man would rally behind Skyrim if it did defeat the Empire. The same cannot be said for the Empire in the event they defeat the Stormcloaks. Like I said victory not their fucked. They can't defeat the Thalmor alone and they have no hope for help beyond the bretons and good luck trying to win a war with just them as your allies, Skyrim tried. On the other hand you have two potential allies for Skyrim, thus by your own standard they'd be a better candidate for stabilization. Three nations possibly or two. My math favors Skyrim. Hammerfell being salty about getting kicked out of the Empire relates to the fact that they still value the Empire. They were loyal, and they didn't leave; it was the other way around. If a good ruler offers them a hand, they have little reason to refuse. Obviously not Titus II though. Diplomacy between monarchies depends on the relations between its monarchs, not the bureaucracies of each state. Goes back to the Dragonborn. A Dragonborn Emperor/Empress takes over, supports the Nine Divines and espouses support for Hammerfell, Hammerfell has very little reason to refuse rejoining the Empire. I think having a central state works better than alliances. Like I said before, look at the Interregnum. No central military = much more vulnerable to crises. Only the Oblivion Crisis really left the Empire in a bad position. Without that, the Thalmor would never have been able to take over Summerset, even with a weak ruler on the Ruby Throne. The good news is that the new edition of Skyrim will supposedly have console mod capabilities. So if you don't get a PC version anytime soon, you can still try those out in a few months. Might be worth a shot. Oh yeah I heard which makes me excited. Might actually get an xbox one just for the Skyrim remaster. Want to check out some of those mods. There's so many good ones. It's easy to have a load order in excess of 150 mods just because of all the wonderful little gameplay improvements they make. Granted, you might not be able to play them all on XBone as some are pretty resource-heavy, but there's plenty of little mods that shouldn't be any problem to use.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 9, 2016 1:02:56 GMT
._.
The Dragonborn isn't going to rule anything and fanfiction aside I'm done debating the point.
I'm using actual lore here.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Aug 9, 2016 1:04:14 GMT
If this one is included, I'll be happy:
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Daft Arbiter
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 9, 2016 1:05:30 GMT
._. The Dragonborn isn't going to rule anything and fanfiction aside I'm done debating the point. I'm using actual lore here. I'm using actual lore too. I take the concrete lore very seriously, but we haven't gotten to the next game yet, so I don't think it's fair to count out the LDB even though it's almost certain that said character won't be relevant in the next game, so it's mostly hypothetical.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Aug 9, 2016 1:38:53 GMT
If this one is included, I'll be happy: I'm not too sure about animation mods actually. A lot of them require FNIS which has to be run on a computer to work, but that's not true of all mods that deal with animations so I could be wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 8:48:46 GMT
What??? A face sculptor??? Part of the DLC in Skyrim, it lets you remodel your character again after creation. Sort of like the doctors in Fallout(which is where they stole the idea from but anyway...) Ohhhhh ok that sounds fun My character is hawt anyway
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Post by Patricia on Aug 9, 2016 9:02:18 GMT
I got thrown in jail once for murdering someone for the dark brotherhood...
... the guards must have thought
'oh yes the imperial dressed in dark brotherhood uniform who just shot a civilian in the back of the head with a poisoned bow obviously isnt a threat because she put her bow away'
Im not a master criminal or anything
... I also stole a cabbage once by mistake but no one noticed
I havent met a Thalmor yet but I know who they are You will meet them soon enough when you follow the main quests then you will also know where their Embassy is .
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Post by Urizen on Aug 9, 2016 10:07:33 GMT
Hence "Especially with a Dragonborn." It's true that the Empire is pretty weak, but so is Skyrim. If I have to pick either as a viable contender to fight the Dominion under the leadership of a Dragonborn, the winner is Cyrodiil. More land, more arable land, more people, and an organized, professional military that forces the Dominion to project power with agents rather than armies. Forget High Rock in this (they'll work with whichever side wins, such is Breton pragmatism). Cyrodiil was a mess during the First Era and during the Interregnum, but its overwhelming economic power and huge population allowed it to bounce back time and time again. If Reman could take Cyrodiil and create a superpower, why can't the Last Dragonborn (who in terms of power is more akin to Hjalti than Reman)? It's true that they could probably make Skyrim alone a superpower as well, but I'd rather bet on a combined Empire of Cyrodiil, High Rock, and a weak Skyrim and Morrowind as opposed to just Skyrim with Breton allies. Both sides ultimately want to destroy the Thalmor and repeal the Concordat to reestablish Talos worship, so I feel as though the Empire is the more efficient option to do so. Cyrodiil does indeed have a professional army, true. But how many legions did they lose, when they gave up Hammerfell? How many when they abandoned Morrowind during the Oblivion crysis? How many when Alinor and subsequently Valenwood and Elsweyr receded? And how many more did they lose in the battle against the Thalmor itself? How many Nords heeded the Call of Ulfric? What about Orsinium? The Legion as a whole is a shadow of its former self. And no, the Thalmor aren´t operating through agents because they fear the "Might" of the Empire. They are operating through agents only because the war cost them as much manpower as it did the Empire. The war was costly also financially and is the sole reason why the Empire clinges so heavily onto Skyrim. It needs its silvermines! We don´t know much about the financial state of the Aldmeri Dominion. But we can make guesses. They lost 2 wars. The one against the Empire and the other against Hammerfell. We do know, that the AD is in no fighting shape for the time being. I wouldn´t be surprised if their coffers are just as empty as the Empires. Even moreso considering the fact that Hammerfell has a longstanding history of using Piracy as a means to subdue their enemies. But there is more. The Elder Council itself. The DB questline strongly suggests that atleast some of the members of the EC are actively conspiring to kill Titus Mede II. The question is why. There are multiple possibilities for it. One is to simply get Titus off the throne and get someone on it, that is far more competent. Another is, that someone in the EC is working with the Thalmor. A third is that the EC is disgruntled with decisions made, such as letting Hammerfell go. In any case, neither the EC nor the Throne are as stable as they appear. And then there is this: "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
SourceSo maybe an independent Skyrim isn´t such a bad idea. For example, Hammerfell is more likely to flock to Ulfrics banner than it is to the Empires. Morrowind, most likely the same. Especially given the fact, they handed Solstheim to them after the Red Year. Orcs, I don´t know tbh. It could go either way. Highrock? If Skyrim manages to ally with Hammerfell and Morrowind, then definitely yes. Otherwise, they play the waiting game. Black Marsh? Doubtful. Cyrodiil? Yes. Because otherwise they would definitely be near alone. But would Skyrim reach out to Cyrodiil? Yes, they would. Ulfrics quarrel isn´t with the Empire per se, it´s with the White Gold Concordat and the Thalmor. Enemy of my enemy and all that. TL;DR: The Empire is dead. The Septim bloodline is severed. Cyrodiil in the past 200 years was no beacon of stability and for as long as the AD remains, it won´t be. Cyrodiil is militarily and financially weakened. There is at the very least discontent within the Elder Council. Skyrim on the other hand is, despite being basically divided at the beginning of the game, going strong. Trade agreements between Jarls are still upheld. It has vast riches in silver, and gold btw. TL;DR: The Empire has nowhere near the strength you claim it to have.
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