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Post by fenris on Nov 8, 2016 7:21:31 GMT
I've noticed something in Bioware games: the gay romances are usually much better written than the heterosexual ones. In ME3, the Kaiden romance is, IMHO, by far better than the others. In DAI we had Dragon Bull with the most hilarious scene in the game, and in DA2 we had Fenris' bisexual romance which was incredible.
Do you agree with me? In ME2EC, when Kaiden says "don't leave me behind," I almost cried. such an incredible scene.
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Post by lothar on Nov 8, 2016 8:39:00 GMT
I suppose you are not aware of some things. For example FemShep does have a way longer scene with Kaidan in Shepard's cabin. Including an 'I love you' and a kiss only for FemShep.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 11:39:30 GMT
Not mentioned, how well written the gay romances in ME1–ME2...
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Post by fenris on Nov 8, 2016 11:43:30 GMT
I suppose you are not aware of some things. For example FemShep does have a way longer scene with Kaidan in Shepard's cabin. Including an 'I love you' and a kiss only for FemShep. I am aware, as I've played almost every possible romance of these games I stand by my earlier statement. Also longer scenes aren't exactly a priority for me
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 12:43:23 GMT
I suppose you are not aware of some things. For example FemShep does have a way longer scene with Kaidan in Shepard's cabin. Including an 'I love you' and a kiss only for FemShep. [...] Also longer scenes aren't exactly a priority for me This point is true (but I dont know fem!Shep–Alenko romance). And for sake of truth, Alenko and M!Shep in ME3 was really good, Fenris and Anders as well, and Anders romance actually was better with M!Hawke (I think Fenris too, but I'm biased...).
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Post by fenris on Nov 8, 2016 14:09:59 GMT
Not mentioned, how well written the gay romances in ME1–ME2... I know Kaiden's ME1 romance, played it too, with mods, but I was unaware that ME2 had gay romances... Who could you gay romance there (as maleshep)?
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 14:11:51 GMT
Not mentioned, how well written the gay romances in ME1–ME2... I know Kaiden's ME1 romance, played it too, with mods, but I was unaware that ME2 had gay romances... Who could you gay romance there (as maleshep)? Thats the point...
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Post by fenris on Nov 8, 2016 14:15:17 GMT
I know Kaiden's ME1 romance, played it too, with mods, but I was unaware that ME2 had gay romances... Who could you gay romance there (as maleshep)? Thats the point... What is? That there wasn't a gay romance in ME1+ME2?
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 14:18:23 GMT
What is? That there wasn't a gay romance in ME1+ME2? Yes.
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Post by fenris on Nov 8, 2016 14:32:55 GMT
What is? That there wasn't a gay romance in ME1+ME2? Yes. But what point is that? ME1 had a gay romance written and taken out, but it can still be played. DA1-3 had gay romances, and they were great.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 14:45:51 GMT
But what point is that? ME1 had a gay romance written and taken out, but it can still be played. DA1-3 had gay romances, and they were great. Yes, taken out. But you wrote: This is simply not true (my opinion). Look: DAO: Zevran was good, but as I see, not better than Morrigan or Alistair (I don't know Leliana's romance). Yes, in DA2 Anders was better with M!Hawke. He and Fenris actually great with male. (I dont know Isabela's romance.) DA3: Dorian and Bull not my favorite romance. Cassandra romance is good. I dont tried personally Cullen and Solas romance, but as I know, they are good. I like Kaidan romance in ME3, it's very good, but I dont know the straight romances here, so, I haven't basis for comparison.
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Post by lothar on Nov 8, 2016 15:00:06 GMT
ME1 had a gay romance written and taken out, but it can still be played. It was not written and taken out. Both Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale recorded all Shepard dialog. Dialog lines were not tagged for genders. Mark Meer recorded the lines of the FemShep+Kaidan romance. That's all you hear.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 15:04:31 GMT
ME1 had a gay romance written and taken out, but it can still be played. It was not written and taken out. Both Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale recorded all Shepard dialog. Dialog lines were not tagged for genders. Mark Meer recorded the lines of the FemShep+Kaidan romance. That's all you hear. Oh. But whatever, the point is: in ME1 was no gay romance for M!shep (nor in ME2).
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Post by lothar on Nov 8, 2016 15:27:54 GMT
It was not written and taken out. Both Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale recorded all Shepard dialog. Dialog lines were not tagged for genders. Mark Meer recorded the lines of the FemShep+Kaidan romance. That's all you hear. Oh. But whatever, the point is: in ME1 was no gay romance for M!shep (nor in ME2). If Bioware hadn't made Dragon Age then ME3 probably still wouldn't have included any gay romance.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 8, 2016 15:39:39 GMT
Oh. But whatever, the point is: in ME1 was no gay romance for M!shep (nor in ME2). If Bioware hadn't made Dragon Age then ME3 probably still wouldn't have included any gay romance. Luckily now there are exist gay romances in ME, this is good, and seems, we will have in Andromeda too.
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Post by xassantex on Nov 10, 2016 19:10:53 GMT
haha, some of the argument here is funny. romance in ME1 and 2 better there were none in ME2 that's the point that's not a point... lol but ME2 has a mini one on Horizon if you've played the modded ME1 .
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Post by dalinne on Nov 10, 2016 23:53:58 GMT
haha, some of the argument here is funny. romance in ME1 and 2 better there were none in ME2 that's the point that's not a point... lol but ME2 has a mini one on Horizon if you've played the modded ME1 . For me unromanced Kaidan in ME2 was all angry because he discovered he was in love with Shep when he died on Alchera
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 12, 2016 7:00:13 GMT
haha, some of the argument here is funny. romance in ME1 and 2 better there were none in ME2 that's the point that's not a point... lol but ME2 has a mini one on Horizon if you've played the modded ME1 . For me unromanced Kaidan in ME2 was all angry because he discovered he was in love with Shep when he died on Alchera There really is something powerful to learning in ME3 that, yeah, you were probably in love long before you knew it. Kaidan hero worshiped Shepard either way, regardless of romantic inclination. But he also got to see Shepard as a flawed human that he could love deeply. I do like the modded ME1 romance but it's still pretty awesome to have the romance blossom out of longstanding respect and friendship.
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Post by lothar on Nov 12, 2016 23:09:12 GMT
Why are you talking about Kaidan like he is a human being with actual thoughts? He's a fully scripted NPC. Bioware people decided what he does and doesn't do. And they decided not to make Kaidan bisexual in ME1. I guess because either they didn't think there was a big enough demand worth investing money into or because they feared a homophobic backlash. Whyever FemShep+Liara and other lesbian content was feasible I do not know.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 12, 2016 23:15:50 GMT
Why are you talking about Kaidan like he is a human being with actual thoughts? He's a fully scripted NPC. Bioware people decided what he does and doesn't do. And they decided not to make Kaidan bisexual in ME1. I guess because either they didn't think there was a big enough demand worth investing money into or because they feared a homophobic backlash. Whyever FemShep+Liara and other lesbian content was feasible I do not know. I think, we all know, that they are fictional characters, thanks the warning. But if you watching/reading/playing a story, you need some illusion, you not? That's very sad, if they are feared from homophobic backslash. I not sure, but I remeber, that I heard: the reason was because in the Army the homosexuality not accepted... but once again, I'm not sure. Whatever happened, finally we got, him, and as I see, not I'm the one who happy with this decision. Despite this, we need some illusion to explain this lame solution...
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Post by lothar on Nov 12, 2016 23:56:29 GMT
Why are you talking about Kaidan like he is a human being with actual thoughts? He's a fully scripted NPC. Bioware people decided what he does and doesn't do. And they decided not to make Kaidan bisexual in ME1. I guess because either they didn't think there was a big enough demand worth investing money into or because they feared a homophobic backlash. Whyever FemShep+Liara and other lesbian content was feasible I do not know. I think, we all know, that they are fictional characters, thanks the warning. But if you watching/reading/playing a story, you need some illusion, you not? Kaidan's sudden interest in ManShep is another sore point. You can think he was in love with Shepard for some time. He implies this at the Citadel Dinner Date. But he says the same to FemShep. Except FemShep had the option to romance him in ME1. Meanwhile there is no explanation why ManShep could not romance him before and all of a sudden in ME3 it's possible. Inside the game there is no reason for any of this. The simple truth is that the developers didn't want Kaidan to be available to male characters in ME1. Bioware being Bioware wanted to give players choices, even the left behind players of gay romance. Steve Cortez was one minor gay LI without any special kiss or sex scene animations. If Bioware wanted to give gay Shepards choice in LIs they had to have another option. That would have meant either writing another romance, possibly making another character or making Vega gay. Probably that second options would have had no special romance animation either. The alternative was writing the Kaidan romance to fit both genders and creating some genderneutral animations for his romance. This was obviously deemed most viable or in other words cheapest. That's why Kaidan magically turned bisexual in ME3.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 13, 2016 0:24:48 GMT
The point is (again): I absolutely don't think, that the gay romances better written, than the straight romances. This is not a complaint, just fact-finding.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Nov 13, 2016 3:05:28 GMT
Regardless of what they did/didn't do in the past, MEA is a whole new start. I hope they continue to get better at providing quality LGBTQ romances. Options are a good thing.
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Post by lothar on Nov 13, 2016 8:30:53 GMT
Regardless of what they did/didn't do in the past, MEA is a whole new start. I hope they continue to get better at providing quality LGBTQ romances. Options are a good thing. Bioware decided to change the galaxy but keep certain thing. We saw it in the 4k demo and again in the trailer. Just like in the trilogy female characters are sexualized. Their skintight suits show off their butts. The male bodies are obscured by armor. That doesn't happen by accident. It's intentionally designed this way. I means Andromeda once again focusses on the straight male player demographic. In Inquisition we had women in full armor, no boob plate. Women were in powerful positions like head of Chantry or Empress. Josephine and Vivienne were clearly not white. And in this effort of equality and diversity Dorian and Sera got more or less the same treatment as any LI. In the straight male focussed ME trilogy of course 2 games had no gay characters whatsoever. You can clearly see how Cortez was low budget, low priority compared to Ahsley and Liara the LIs for the main target demographic straight male players. ME3 treated gay romances like a stepchild. I know this is obviously not evidence that gay and lesbian romances will be worse than straight ones in Andromeda but at least to me the sexualization of female characters is not a good sign.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 13, 2016 13:56:55 GMT
Regardless of what they did/didn't do in the past, MEA is a whole new start. I hope they continue to get better at providing quality LGBTQ romances. Options are a good thing. Bioware decided to change the galaxy but keep certain thing. We saw it in the 4k demo and again in the trailer. Just like in the trilogy female characters are sexualized. Their skintight suits show off their butts. The male bodies are obscured by armor. That doesn't happen by accident. It's intentionally designed this way. I means Andromeda once again focusses on the straight male player demographic. In Inquisition we had women in full armor, no boob plate. Women were in powerful positions like head of Chantry or Empress. Josephine and Vivienne were clearly not white. And in this effort of equality and diversity Dorian and Sera got more or less the same treatment as any LI. In the straight male focussed ME trilogy of course 2 games had no gay characters whatsoever. You can clearly see how Cortez was low budget, low priority compared to Ahsley and Liara the LIs for the main target demographic straight male players. ME3 treated gay romances like a stepchild. I know this is obviously not evidence that gay and lesbian romances will be worse than straight ones in Andromeda but at least to me the sexualization of female characters is not a good sign. This is true, but the situation seems better than before, and the direction seems good; maybe I'm, too naive, but I see some positive change. No, not Dorian with his stereotypical backstory and behaviors, and also the annoying Sera, true, so many people loves this two characters, but obviously not my favorites.... Yes, the most of gay/bisexual character are promiscuous (Zevran, Isabela, Iron Bull etc), stereotypical (Dorian) or have lame solution (as Alenko...), but some of them really well written and lovable (I like Zevran's, Isabela's and Iron Bull's character as well, and Anders, Fenris and Alenko are my favorite romances), but yes, not better than the other, straight characters/romances. Except Anders who clearly better with male, true, his romance according to the authors intention: sad, as I see. I think, no need to be pessimistic forecast. We'll see. And then we'll happy, disappointed or angry... Yes, the sexualization is an existing problem, but much more extensive, than that here we can analyze, not to mention the racial problems. I think we should not go into this.
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