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2,714
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August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 19, 2016 5:40:01 GMT
Objective: Provide a leveling scheme for a Vanguard on Insanity starting at Level 1.
Bonus Power: I will show a build using Assault Rifles as the bonus talent as that can add some reliable weapon DPS and is generic enough that it works with most styles. If you want a “better adept,” then take Singularity. Alternatively, something like Sabotage is nice if you want some Tech. Medicine (for Neural Shock) is good if you want minimum investment in the bonus talent.
Persuasion: Same story as with the other guides, I like to pass most checks. That means I like to invest 6 points in Intimidate and take 4 freebies for 10 (which passes all “worthwhile” checks, eventually). I will mention some of the checks that you may not pass if you run into them before this build path can pass them. Largely I will try to give the option to pass checks that derive some benefit, or can cut down on tedium. I'm not above using morality exploits to max these faster, but it isn't absolutely necessary depending on dialogue choices and mission order.
Assumptions: As with the previous guides, the assumption is that you already have XP bonuses. This only really matters with regard to plot points that I point out along the way. There is some buffer built in.
Miscellaneous: The final class build guide for ME1. I had started working on the three hybrid classes to finish this off over the summer, but when the shutdown of Bioware forums was announced, I was somewhat demotivated. Anyway...
In general the hybrid classes are the strongest in ME1 since they generally have a mixture of the best abilities from the pure classes. It is debatable whether Infiltrator or Vanguard is the overall strongest class in this game, they are pretty similar in power. Vanguard gives up weapon damage and some defense to Infiltrator but has much better CC.
That said there is one major point to mention. There is a glitch where Barrier duration is cut if you use Carnage while it is active. The specifics of this glitch were never fully elucidated, but it can affect all tiers of Barrier, with or without Barrier specialization. Of course, Carnage isn't a great ability to begin with, so I personally don't think this is a big deal.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 19, 2016 5:40:15 GMT
Prologue and Expose Saren
Level 1
Points: 2 initial +3 (5)
Pistols 2 Throw 1 Warp 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill)
You get 3 points to spend. Vanguard starts with Throw and Warp, so it is time to work on weapon talents.
Kaidan comes with Throw and Decryption. Add Barrier and then put the last point where you want. The idea with him is to get Lift as early as available (Level 6), but points in unlock skills aren't bad either. It is worth mentioning that there is a crate later on Eden Prime that takes Basic Electronics, and you will need to go through Decryption to unlock it. If you skip passive and First Aid it should be possible to get Basic Electronics and then unlock Lift at Level 6 for him though.
Level 2
Points: +3 (8)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Throw 1 Warp 2 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 1
Get Marksman, and then start on Intimidate. You should have another level to go before you need to have 2 in Charm or Intimidate. The other point is in Warp, which we need to invest in to unlock Barrier.
For Kaidan, invest in Throw and Decryption. If you pick up Ash at this level, get Overkill, 1 pt in passive for health regen, and then invest in Armor for Shield Boost (and towards Heavy).
Level 3
Points: +3 (11)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Throw 1 Warp 4 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 2
You will probably be Level 3 sometime before you reach the farmers. I like to get the second Intimidate point here so I can get the smuggler’s name. For all checks left on Eden Prime you will need 3, and the only place to really pull that is from Warp or the bonus.
The Stinger II pistol that the farmers give you is the best early game weapon of any class. It should be your primary weapon, whereas the AR should be used only under Overkill.
Behind the farmers is the shack with a crate requiring Basic Electronics.
Kaidan should still invest as much as he can in Throw, and other points in Passive or Decryption, while Ash should try to work towards Immunity or Heavy Armor.
Level 4
Points: +3 (14)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 2 Throw 1 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 2
Most of the other characters have Intimidate 3 here, but we need the point to unlock Barrier, the Vanguard's defensive skill. Medium Armor can be obtained after sufficient investment in Assault Training and the nested Tactical Armor but basic Barrier and Adrenaline Burst should get you through most of the early game.
Keep working towards Heavy Armor for Ash, or Assault Training. For Kaidan, Throw and Decryption or First Aid.
Level 5
Points: +3 (17)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 2 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 3
Now you should be on the Expose Saren quest. This is also likely the level you will confront the Assassins if you chose to go see Harkin instead of picking up Wrex first.
You and Kaidan have Throw, alternate them to ragdoll the assassins. Mix in grenades for more ragdoll and damage, as well as Sabotage for more CC and Warp for extra damage. Use Adrenaline Burst to rest your cooldowns when appropriate. Ash should look something like AR 1, Armor 5, Assault Training 3 and Passive 3 at this point working towards Heavy Armor and then Immunity.
You should also only need 3 in Intimidate here to do Dr Michel’s personal quest, which will allow you to exploit her generosity and get a Spectre pistol before you leave the Citadel. If going Charm, you need 6 (or you need to kill the Krogan).
Level 6
Points: +2 (19)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 4 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 3
Points into Throw to work towards Lift.
Kaidan should get basic Lift (sufficient for Krogan bouncer) then work towards Medicine or continue with Decryption to Electronics. Ash should still prioritize durability, and makes sense rounding out your squad with Kaidan. If you picked up Garrus, go Overkill, Armor 6, Advanced Decryption, Damping 1, First Aid 1.
Level 7
Points: +2 (21)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 4 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 3
You hit this sometime dealing with Fist’s group and saving Tali. That section is at a fairly quick pace and I end up skipping over this level with a lot of characters. This often works out for me because of what I like to do with saved points at 8…
Level 8
Points: +2 (23)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 4 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
You should be 8 after becoming a Spectre, and you get an extra talent and one freebie persuasion point in Charm and Intimidate. You probably also got the first morality freebie for renegade or paragon passing 10% at some point. Invest your banked points in Spectre for Unity.
Alternatively, if you plan to do a lot of Citadel side quests now, increase Intimidate to 6, which will allow you to pass all checks currently available on the Citadel.
Note that Level 8 Tali should be able to level to Master Sabotage (Decryption) and Master Overload (Electronics) right away. This is helpful for a Vanguard given that you have not lock skills yourself and she can cover all crates by herself.
Before you leave the Citadel I recommend doing Dr Michel’s quest (only need 3 Intimidate to make it easy), then using her trick to get enough credits to buy a Spectre pistol and a couple extra First Aid or Medical Interfaces if you want early game to be a bit less painful. At the very least, try to get a decent health regen item for Shepard. You don't have to have a Spectre weapon early game, the Stinger II is fairly competent.
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Post by capn233 on Nov 19, 2016 5:40:25 GMT
First Plot World (Therum)
The goal for this section is beating the Battlemaster on Therum. Even though Vanguard is a biotic, Liara is still arguably the most powerful squadmate. Vanguard will be able to handle the Battlemaster by itself in a few levels.
Since it is on the way, swing by Edolus for Missing Marines and some XP.
Level 9
Points: +2 (25)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 6 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
The immediate goal is to unlock Lift before starting Therum. Side missions largely have “biotic extremists” while main line missions are largely Geth. For the most part, biotics are useful in both, but tech is a little more useful on main line missions. Guns are always useful, too.
Tali should work towards Master Hacking, Garrus should try to wrap up Master Sabotage and then work towards Electronics, and Kaidan should be working towards Neural Shock.
Level 10
Points: +2 (27)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 7 Lift 1 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Now you Lift, bro.
Level 11
Points: +2 (29)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 7 Lift 3 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
You might start Therum around here, or hit this level in the beginning. It will depend partly on how many side quests you did beforehand. Still have a few levels before Advanced Lift.
Alternatively, if you want to let a squadmate handle CC on the Battlemaster, you could be putting points in Assault Training to unlock the armor line, and obtain Medium Armor earlier.
Tali should have something like Master Sabotage, Master Overload, Damping, and 5 points in Hacking. For Wrex, a decent build for him at Level 11 might be Overkill, Heavy Armor, Immunity, Advanced Warp 7, Barrier, and Passive 5. That will allow Wrex to reach Advanced Throw by the Battlemaster, which is the level necessary to affect him. If you are behind a couple levels in XP, steal points from Armor and Passive. There is no guarantee Krogan heavy armor will even drop.
At this stage of the game it is a good idea to weaken enemies with the Mako, then hop out to finish them on foot for the XP. Remember that you can also knock down elite units like Armatures with the Mako, then jump out and shoot them while they try to get up.
Level 12
Points: +2 (31)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 7 Lift 5 Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 13
Points: +2 (33)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 3 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 14
Points: +2 (35)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 15
Points: +2 (37)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 2 Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 5 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
You will probably make Level 15 by the Battlemaster fight. The strategy for this fight remains the same. Engage the Geth, then the Battlemaster. Leaving a single Geth is a good idea as it allows you to take the initiative against the krogan.
As far as the Battlemaster goes, switch your ammo to Chemical or Radioactive, use Overload, and fire at him until he rushes you. Advanced Lift and Marksman should take care of him.
If you had chosen to get Medium Armor instead of Lift, you could have Advanced Throw (8) which can also work on him, but I prefer getting Lift earlier as it is more versatile.
With this encounter in Normandy's rear view, the first phase of the game is complete.
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Post by capn233 on Nov 19, 2016 5:40:36 GMT
Specialization
The next major step is working towards level 20 to get your specialization.
Level 16
Points: +2 (39)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 2 Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 7 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
After Therum is when I tend to go back to the Citadel for some minor side quests. To continue plagiarizing myself, 6 intimidate gets you through all of them. If you are going Charm, you may need 7 for Presidium Prophet, Rita’s Sister, and Jahleed’s Fears. The other exception is Snap Inspection, in which case you need 9 of either to pass every check (not worth worrying about, IMO).
If you want to do a few more combat missions first, you can take the Intimidate points and work towards armor this level.
Liara should come standard with a point in Throw and First Aid, and 32 points free. Since there is a glitch where you cannot use every power for Liara, I usually plan to skip Stasis. You can start her off decently by getting Advanced Throw, Master Lift, Warp 7 (Advanced), Singularity 1, Barrier 1, First Aid 4, and Overload 1. This is the same as I recommended as a companion to the Soldier.
Her leveling scheme is pretty straight forward. After you get Master Lift and 1 pt Singularity, improver her passive for power recharge, then go either Electronics or to Advanced Barrier for more durability. If she seems durable enough to you, max Singularity.
Level 17
Points: +2 (41)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 3 (Shield Boost) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 18
Points: +2 (43)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 5 (Shield Boost) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 19
Points: +2 (45)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Mundane Citadel assignments have allowed us to unlock Medium Armor, as well as get to Intimidate 8. In both cases our investment in them is complete, although Intimidate will gain a couple more freebies.
With those two milestones we are ready to do some random missions, like Major Kyle and Missing Survey Team. Missing Survey Team is the first of many melee rush side missions. Lift and Throw are money there.
Major Kyle takes a minimum of 7 Charm or 8 Intimidate. You may have picked up another freebie persuasion point for passing 25% renegade or paragon but I haven't shown it yet just in case.
Level 20
Points: +2 (47)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Vanguard 2 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Working on passive in anticipation of specialization. Alternatively, put the points into a pistol (for Advanced Marksman or Shotguns), or the bonus talent.
Level 21
Points: +2 (49)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Vanguard 4 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
After Missing Survey Team, you should get a call from Hackett.
Regardless of my class, I tend to take Tali and Garrus to Rogue VI. Tali should have Master Sabotage and Overload, and should have Master Hacking before Luna is over. Garrus should have Master Sabotage, Advanced Overkill, Damping 1, medium armor, and depending on if you invested in Snipers yet or not he may have Advanced or Master Electronics. You could also skimp on some of the weapon points for Adrenaline Burst.
Vanguard should focus on weapon talents and Warp here as Lift and Throw aren't particularly useful, but with tech squadmates Rogue VI shouldn’t be too terrible. Just need to keep an eye on health and keep the turrets locked down with alternating Sabotages. Tali should hack Rocket Drones.
Level 22
Points: +2 (51)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Vanguard 6 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
How many more drones are there?
Level 23
Points: +2 (53)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Vanguard 6 Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity) +2 spare points
Level 24
Points: +2 (55)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 10 (Barrier Specialization) Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Time flies when you're killing drones, and not stopping to pull up the talent screen. In any case you may hit 24 at the end of the mission and unlock your specialization.
Shock Trooper gives you health and damage protection, whereas Nemesis is biotic duration and damage. Shock Trooper makes more sense, especially given Adrenaline Burst specialization for even more power spam. Either spec gets you Barrier Specialization, which boosts the duration and strength of barrier as well as adding regen.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 19, 2016 5:40:56 GMT
Mid Game
Level 25
Points: +2 (57)
Pistols 3 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 8 (2 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Work on side missions before the next plot world so you can max the passive / spec for Adrenaline Burst Specialization. The character should seem pretty competent in most situations now, and what you chose to level from here could be based on your preference.
I usually knock out things like part of Hostile Takeover (Klensal) and Hostage around this time.
Level 26
Points: +2 (59)
Pistols 5 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 9 (3 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 27
Points: +2 (61)
Pistols 7 (Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 1 (Overkill) Intimidate 9 (3 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 28
Points: +2 (63)
Pistols 8 (Advanced Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 2 (Overkill) Intimidate 9 (3 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
More side missions means more weapon damage. Lost Freighter, the second crime lord for Hostile Takeover (Mavigon), and Asari Diplomacy are reasonable choices. Do whatever you want on the Citadel. You should have at least a Spectre pistol now, and either a Spectre AR or SG unless you spent all your credits on Red Sand. Afterwards, choose a story planet.
If you go to Noveria, you should have sufficient Charm or Intimidate for anything there. Also you can exploit Lorik Qui’in (need 5 Charm or Intimidate) to max paragon or renegade for the last freebie persuasion points. If you go to Feros you won’t pass Jeong’s intimidate check without another point, and you need 3 to pass his Charm check.
Squad options are pretty wide open, with the caveat that you probably want decryption and electronics covered. As far as elite unit CC is concerned, Liara and Kaidan should both have Master Lift by now, and Tali should have Master Hacking. Several squadmates will have Master Sabotage.
We had been neglecting ARs a bit before this. Ideally we would have gotten 3 in it early to take advantage of large bonuses at the beginning of the tree, but points are a little tight. We'll split some points between it and pistols here. If you took Singularity you might want to boost it a bit now as well.
Level 29
Points: +2 (65)
Pistols 9 (Advanced Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 3 (Overkill) Intimidate 9 (3 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 30
Points: +2 (67)
Pistols 11 (Advanced Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 1 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 3 (Overkill) Intimidate 9 (3 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Level 31
Points: +2 (69)
Pistols 12 (Master Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 7 (Advanced) Warp 4 Barrier 2 Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 3 (Overkill) Intimidate 9 (3 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Levels here should be similar to where you end up after the early stages of the second plot world. For Noveria, about the time you leave Port Hanshan or on the road to Peak 15. You could have also picked up the last freebie persuasion point from Lorik Qui’in.
If you are playing Feros, you probably hit Level 29 after you kill the few Geth in the tower, then likely 30 clearing the tunnels and potentially 31 before you head to ExoGeni if you get the colony fully operational.
You now have about as good burst weapon DPS as you are capable of getting to go along with adequate CC. Decent ammo like Shredder, Tungsten, and Incendiary should also be dropping. You can chose whether to go for more CC (finishing lift), or working on more defense (Barrier) after maxing Marksman.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on Nov 19, 2016 5:41:26 GMT
Transition to Late Game
Finishing off your second plot world should net you a few more levels. The main priorities were Lift and Barrier, in whichever order. This may very well depend on which squadmates you have with you.
By Level 37, the character should be pretty competent. If you didn’t reach that during the plot world, you can do a few more side missions like Lost Module, Cerberus, or meeting Helena Blake (Amaranthine).
Level 37
Points: +1 (79)
Pistols 12 (Master Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 12 (Master) Warp 4 Barrier 7 (Advanced) Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 3 (Overkill) Intimidate 10 (4 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
Wrapping up the second plot world and returning to Normandy should get you to Level 37. Lift is maxed and we have Advanced Barrier, which should provide sufficient durability for the rest of the game given the specialization and Adrenaline Burst.
Reaching Level 37 should also mean you have a chance for items rank VII to drop, which will include Colossus and Armax Predator. Colossus with its greater damage protection is slightly better. Medical Exos are of course the best mods for the armor, although Kinetic Buffer is also good.
With 4 or 5 more points you can take the bonus talent to the next milestone. Alternatively the next 3 could be in Assault Training for faster Adrenaline Burst cooldown.
The odd power out is Carnage. There just isn't much to be gained from investing in that line unless you just want to use Carnage and want extra shotgun damage. Carnage lowers your DPS and there is the aforementioned glitched interaction with Barrier. More on shotguns at the end.
Level 42
Points: +1 (84)
Pistols 12 (Master Marksman) Assault Training 5 (Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 12 (Master) Warp 4 Barrier 7 (Advanced) Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 8 (Advanced Overkill) Intimidate 10 (4 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
With the next milestone on the bonus power the character is starting to plateau power-wise. From here on out you can choose what you like for your points dump. Maxing Assault Training makes the most sense. At the very least, 3 points get it to Advanced.
The next best place to spend points may be Warp to help burn through enemy Immunity.
Throw could get a pity point to hit Advanced. There isn't a compelling reason to go to Master most of the time, IMO.
Level 50
Points: +1 (92)
Pistols 12 (Master Marksman) Assault Training 12 (Master Adrenaline Burst) Tactical Armor 7 (Shield Boost, Medium Armor) Throw 7 Lift 12 (Master) Warp 5 Barrier 7 (Advanced) Shock Trooper 12 (Barrier, Adrenaline Burst Specializations) Assault Rifles 8 (Advanced Overkill) Intimidate 10 (4 freebies) Spectre 4 (Unity)
It is worth talking about Shotguns briefly. They are most useful for their high weapon force, which can knock down melee rush enemies. The DPS is not that great compared to pistols or assault rifles, and a min-maxed Vanguard probably won't spend points in that line. That said, if you want to use them because it suits your style, then there are a few places to scavenge some points.
If you would have taken Medicine as the bonus talent, that is 7 easy points back. If you didn't then the first place to look might be Assault Training. You can lower that without hurting your power spam too much, at least if you have a halfway decent biotic amp.
After that, I would consider pulling points from Marksman, although the DPS drop will likely be noticeable. We were investing in Shotguns for fun rather than pure power, so this isn't a big deal.
I wouldn't want to sacrifice Master Lift, but it is an option. Most of the time you aren't going up against elites, so Advanced will still be useful.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 15:20:19 GMT
I can't like these guides enough, capri233! Thank you so much for adding them here. Likes 100X.
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On holiday on Dantooine. This whole "vengeance on the Jedi" thing gets very tiring after a while.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Nov 20, 2016 9:52:55 GMT
Thanks for these guides. I don't really need the others, as I've already figured out what works best for me, but I might try out your Vanguard guide for my last Insanity run.
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CosmicGnosis
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 3, 2017 0:31:57 GMT
Aren't assault rifles kind of pointless if Master Marksman pistols have better DPS?
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redcaesar97
Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Jan 4, 2017 1:43:59 GMT
Aren't assault rifles kind of pointless if Master Marksman pistols have better DPS? Master Marksman does have better DPS than assault rifles with equivalent weapons (HMWA X and HMWP X for example), but the difference is rather negligible. And determining if an assault rifle is equivalent with a pistol is difficult to determine unless they are the Spectre weapons (HMW weapons). Pistol with Master Marksman versus assault rifle tests: 1. Test 1. WARNING: Video contains cringe-worthy commentary. (I hate the sound of my own voice.) 2. Test 2. 3. Test 3. 4. Test 4. Some other things to keep in mind: 1. Pistol with Master Marksman does have greater DPS than an equivalent assault rifle, but only for the duration of Marksman. 2. When Marksman duration ends, you are back to regular DPS. If Marksman is still on cooldown, you lose DPS. 3. All assault rifles are essentially unusuable at ranks 1 - III because they all have 1 accuracy. 4. You cannot keep Marksman permanently active until you get good enough cooldown armor mods. You essentially need two Medical Exoskeleton Xs plus the Marksman duration bonus from the Pistols achievement (kill 150 enemies with pistols) to keep Marksman active nearly indefinitely. Given the above statements, Pistols will be better than assault rifles until rank IV weapons begin to drop (when Shepard reaches level 20 or so). At that point, Assault Rifles are generally better until near the very end of the game when you get the required mods. So there is a good chunk of the game when assault rifles are better than pistols. The practical difference between Pistols with Master Marksman and Assault Rifles is negligible. You will not notice a difference when you are playing the game. You would have to record your gameplay and then go back and record the various kill times to see the difference. Note that some enemies will use Sabotage, so having both Assault Rifles and Pistols with Master Marksman is not a bad thing if you care about that. I have used both Master Marksman and Assault Rifles on a Soldier before. For other classes, having just a Basic Marksman or Advanced Marksman (depending on class/build) along with assault rifles is not a terrible idea.
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Post by GrimBroom on Apr 3, 2020 20:01:28 GMT
On the off chance you see this...
Thoughts on skipping Tactical Armor completely?
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Apr 3, 2020 23:25:35 GMT
On the off chance you see this... Thoughts on skipping Tactical Armor completely? I do not know if capn233 will see it, but I can certainly provide my thoughts. The Adept can get by without investing in armor (I have done it). So therefore the Vanguard can certainly get by without it as well. The Sentinel already gets by without any armor investment. Not spending any points in Tactical Armor means no Shield Boost, no armor talent bonuses, and no ability to wear medium armor. Just still make sure you out points into Assault Training for the Adrenaline Burst skill. But I assume you were planning to do that anyway.
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Post by GrimBroom on Apr 4, 2020 1:48:05 GMT
Really the only reason I bring it up is because of Barrier. I've never done a run where I didn't max that power. Going by capn's level 50 build above, skipping Tactical Armor would allow me to max Barrier and get both Throw and Warp to Advanced.
Then again, if I'm not capped at 50, getting to 55 isn't that hard on a completionist run. Even killing stuff in the Mako, which I pretty much always do, I think that's where I usually end up. Although, I'll probably take Singularity over Assault Rifles, and I suppose the advice would be maxed Singularity is more valuable than maxed Barrier?
I also realize a lot of what I'm wringing my hands over here is negligible. It's just that the other five classes in the first game are so straightforward to build, at least for me. I guess there's some thought with the Adept in terms of what I want to do with weapons, but that's really it.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Apr 4, 2020 2:32:22 GMT
You can also free up some points by not spending any in Charm or Intimidate. The impact of not persuading people with Charm/Intimidate in ME1 is pretty small in the rest of the series.
You also do not have to max Assault Training; you could probably leave that at Advanced (60s cooldown). Shock Trooper bonus + Medical Exoskeleton mods will still get you a pretty good cooldown. By the end of the game, you may not end up using it all that much.
Level 50: 92 points (start with 2, plus 90 points levels 1 - 50). You can max up to 7 talents (7 x 12 = 84) with 6 points left over.
You can max these seven talents: - Pistols - Throw - Lift - Singularity - Warp - Barrier - Vanguard/Shock Trooper
And then you can put the remaining points into Assault Training.
Although I would drop Throw down to Advanced (8 points) to make more room for Assault Training. If you want Charm or Intimidate at max, you have to take another 8 points from somewhere. So that means singularity and/or Barrier, and/or Warp.
Spectre Training is useful early game but nearly pointless by the end of the game. Boy I really wish there was a respec option in this game (but that could cause problems or exploits with the Charm/Intimidate system in this game).
If you want the Vanguard to play like an Adept but with Adrenaline Burst, the Vanguard is very point-starved. Most of the other classes tend to have a lot of garbage/throw-away talents that you can ignore. Vanguard can really only ignore Shotguns, and maybe Tactical Armor.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by capn233 on May 7, 2020 22:11:04 GMT
Really the only reason I bring it up is because of Barrier. I've never done a run where I didn't max that power. Going by capn's level 50 build above, skipping Tactical Armor would allow me to max Barrier and get both Throw and Warp to Advanced. Then again, if I'm not capped at 50, getting to 55 isn't that hard on a completionist run. Even killing stuff in the Mako, which I pretty much always do, I think that's where I usually end up. Although, I'll probably take Singularity over Assault Rifles, and I suppose the advice would be maxed Singularity is more valuable than maxed Barrier? I also realize a lot of what I'm wringing my hands over here is negligible. It's just that the other five classes in the first game are so straightforward to build, at least for me. I guess there's some thought with the Adept in terms of what I want to do with weapons, but that's really it. Only a month late on this, you probably finished it already. RedCaesar97 already gave good advice.
But these were really just supposed to give some guidance if you haven't played the game through much and want something that will work on a class you might not be familiar with. Also, some things really just come down to personal preference.
I put AR training as the bonus on most of these partly because I like them, and partly because I thought they were generic enough that someone could sub it out for something else.
To get back to Barrier, it can work fine. Tac Armor is here for the medium armor unlock, which I find helpful since light armors are a bit "light" for my taste early. Of course, eventually you can get Colossus L and it is better than most mediums.
Various things can lose utility as the game goes on, since there is no respec this was an order I thought worked reasonably well for the encounters at their levels.
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