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Post by Hrungr on Nov 23, 2016 21:22:05 GMT
I was wondering what ways DA could make gathering resources more interesting. It’s one of things that’s kinda fun in the beginning... but can turn into a grind later in the game.
And I remembered in DA2 we could become owners of the Bone Pit mine and I wondered if it would be interesting to expand upon that idea.
For example: Say we locate in our travels resource-rich areas (in various regions) and we build our own mines there (encouraging exploration of the region). We invest (or partner with, say... the Dwarven Merchants Guild), watch the mines grow, and they produce the resources for us on a regular basis. We visit them every now and again, pick up a pile of Silverite (or whatever), then carry on. The more you invest in them (or secure better mining equipment/skilled labour in some other way), the better the chances they find Fade-Touched materials and other exotic metals as well. Maybe uncover a lost Thaig or some other cool locale.
You could expand the idea to the other resources gathering as well. First find the seeds to the plants you want and then have gardeners/farmers grow them for us. Hire hunters to scour regions we have secured to gather hides. Recruit professionals to hunt down bigger game for better hides.
The idea in general being you spend just enough time to kick-start these ventures, then not have to worry about scouring entire countrysides for elfroot. Instead you watch your business ventures grow, and perhaps tie-in some quests around that. And whatever you don't use, you sell for money. If you've invested enough in it, by late game it could be this big money-making, resource producing machine.
Thoughts?
Any other ideas?
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Post by colfoley on Nov 23, 2016 21:34:06 GMT
You are onto something. I love the crafting system in Inqusition, but the more i play the more i get annoyed at having to collect materisls. The one big problem with this, and some other aspects, was the Inqusition did not have a big impact. You could send your people out and they spend half an hour ish gathering mats... then come back with like seven silverite, If i did that I could easily collect 30-40 Silverite, probably more. So doing things like having an organization collect materials for you would be awesome.
Other thing, bit out of the box, but if DA ever implements NG +, I'd love to see you being able to bring equipment over. That should limit the time you need to spend collecting stuff.
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Post by Wulfram on Nov 23, 2016 21:39:32 GMT
Probably this isn't useful, but I don't think we should be resource gathering. Below the level of Dragon scales and similar, anyway.
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Post by javeart on Nov 23, 2016 21:44:59 GMT
I'm all for it and for a game like Inquisition would have made a lot of sense, since it ended being a huge orgnization. I'm sure all the people working with the Inquisitor were delighted with her humbleness, spending her hours collecting her own herbs for potions and such as she had nothing better to do, but I could have perfectly lived without it And it would still be an incentive for exploration (which I feel it's something important for most people) since you have to find the mines I was happy with the way it worked in DA2, tbh, but if there's not coming back from the focus in crafting that came with DAI, I'd rather go with something like this. I have always prefered that kind of things to running around pressing "x" every 15 seconds.
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Post by javeart on Nov 23, 2016 21:49:07 GMT
You are onto something. I love the crafting system in Inqusition, but the more i play the more i get annoyed at having to collect materisls. The one big problem with this, and some other aspects, was the Inqusition did not have a big impact. You could send your people out and they spend half an hour ish gathering mats... then come back with like seven silverite, If i did that I could easily collect 30-40 Silverite, probably more. So doing things like having an organization collect materials for you would be awesome. Other thing, bit out of the box, but if DA ever implements NG +, I'd love to see you being able to bring equipment over. That should limit the time you need to spend collecting stuff. It's just great also when you come across a couple of your explorers and they say "we've been searching the area and we found this", an it's an apprentice coat I'd love it too if we could import our equipment in a NG+
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Post by colfoley on Nov 23, 2016 21:53:55 GMT
You are onto something. I love the crafting system in Inqusition, but the more i play the more i get annoyed at having to collect materisls. The one big problem with this, and some other aspects, was the Inqusition did not have a big impact. You could send your people out and they spend half an hour ish gathering mats... then come back with like seven silverite, If i did that I could easily collect 30-40 Silverite, probably more. So doing things like having an organization collect materials for you would be awesome. Other thing, bit out of the box, but if DA ever implements NG +, I'd love to see you being able to bring equipment over. That should limit the time you need to spend collecting stuff. It's just great also when you come across a couple of your explorers and they say "we've been searching the area and we found this", an it's an apprentice coat I'd love it too if we could import our equipment in a NG+ Yeah not levels because I enjoy working a character from nothing, building up their skillz over the game but I would love to have imported Dawnbringer (my superb bow of the dragon with dragon mats) from the beginning.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 23, 2016 22:40:24 GMT
I like it! Civ meets DA! This may be the best argument for Strong AI. My lackeys should aromatically anticipate my need for 180 blood lotus and go hitch a ride to the Hinterlands to get to gathering without my asking. In all seriousness, though, there are a lot of ways to implement your idea, Hrungr . It could be a Perk that stuff just automatically shows up in Special Shipments on a regular basis, not just a one-shot. Or it could be an agent you recruit that does this for you. You've got a Horsemaster, why not an Herbalist? Well, come to think of it, you have a Herbalist in Skyhold, she could do more than stand around in the garden. But maybe the best idea is to have a way to hire villagers to do it. Because that bleeds gold out of the player's economy, always a good thing in a rich setting. Gold as a trade-off for farming time makes a lot of sense to me. It's exactly the same idea as Power for a Price.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 23, 2016 22:55:04 GMT
Another idea, don't know the practicality but othergames allowyou to dismantle items for mats. Something similar might work. Any item above level eghteen should give out 18~ tier 3 mats.
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 24, 2016 0:10:42 GMT
Other thing, bit out of the box, but if DA ever implements NG +, I'd love to see you being able to bring equipment over. That should limit the time you need to spend collecting stuff. That's true, though I didn't mind how the Golden Nug handled it (all your schematics, most of your collectibles, etc.). If they had thrown in a bunch of T1 mats, I would have been even happier though... Probably this isn't useful, but I don't think we should be resource gathering. Below the level of Dragon scales and similar, anyway. If there's crafting in DA4, you can bet there'll be some kind of resource gathering at all levels of play. They could do something super-minimalist (eg. DA2-style). But I figure if we have to it, build something more interesting around it, and make it much less tedious.
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 24, 2016 0:21:00 GMT
I'm all for it and for a game like Inquisition would have made a lot of sense, since it ended being a huge orgnization. I'm sure all the people working with the Inquisitor were delighted with her humbleness, spending her hours collecting her own herbs for potions and such as she had nothing better to do, but I could have perfectly lived without it And it would still be an incentive for exploration (which I feel it's something important for most people) since you have to find the mines I was happy with the way it worked in DA2, tbh, but if there's not coming back from the focus in crafting that came with DAI, I'd rather go with something like this. I have always prefered that kind of things to running around pressing "x" every 15 seconds. And you make a good point about there being incentive for exploration, because you want as many reasons as possible. As you say, you still would have to find the areas to mine, seeds to kick-start your garden, secure encampments/fortifications for your hunters to venture from, and so on... and then, profit!
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 24, 2016 0:33:28 GMT
I like it! Civ meets DA! This may be the best argument for Strong AI. My lackeys should aromatically anticipate my need for 180 blood lotus and go hitch a ride to the Hinterlands to get to gathering without my asking. In all seriousness, though, there are a lot of ways to implement your idea, Hrungr . It could be a Perk that stuff just automatically shows up in Special Shipments on a regular basis, not just a one-shot. Or it could be an agent you recruit that does this for you. You've got a Horsemaster, why not an Herbalist? Well, come to think of it, you have a Herbalist in Skyhold, she could do more than stand around in the garden. But maybe the best idea is to have a way to hire villagers to do it. Because that bleeds gold out of the player's economy, always a good thing in a rich setting. Gold as a trade-off for farming time makes a lot of sense to me. It's exactly the same idea as Power for a Price. Agreed, there's definitely a lot of ways you could tackle it. You could go minimal - like Power for a Price or just plant your flag at certain locations (like we did with Quarries/Logging Camps in DAI) and let the resources flow in. I kinda like the quasi-Civ approach though where you would see the changes you made to the regions over time. A tiny mine growing to a major operation, watching your hunters take down game after you've established yourself in a region, your gardeners/farmers cultivating ever larger plots, that sorta thing... The more money you invest in it (and maybe specialists/equipment), the better the return.
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Post by Ponendus on Nov 24, 2016 0:45:07 GMT
I don't know how useful this is to the discussion, but to be honest I liked how it worked in DAO... which is to say that it was fairly limited. I don't need to craft armour (to be honest the thrill of looting it or finding it locked in a chest in a long abandoned crypt is faaaar more exciting to me), managing crafting is distracting from being an adventurer (really, I can't be all things to everyone, an elf's gotta sleep...). What I do like however is the ability to customise the armour we do have (such as dyeing it). That's quick and enjoyable. But for 'resource gathering' I hope it is limited to potions and traps and other such consumables similar to DA:O. Just my thoughts. Edit: Oh and runes! Runes are fine. Enchantment.
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 24, 2016 0:46:17 GMT
Another idea, don't know the practicality but othergames allowyou to dismantle items for mats. Something similar might work. Any item above level eghteen should give out 18~ tier 3 mats. Yeah, that's another good idea. You could do that in DAMP, but you had no other alternative to gaining crafting materials. If you still had resource gathering from other means, they'd have to keep an eye on how to balance that out. If they did though, it would also be nice to have some predictability (doesn't have to be entirely predictable) in what mats you would get if you broke down a piece of gear. If you broke down 6 sets of the same guard armor, there should be some mats common to that particular armor set (and the rest could be random).
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Post by lundajfs on Nov 24, 2016 1:32:42 GMT
You find a resource you tell people, people gather. Worked in NWN2 (the perfect RPG), worked in Awakening and worked in DA2. DAI MMO'd it because reasons, dumb ones. No need to be creative, stick to what works and you're bound to be happy.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 24, 2016 3:17:38 GMT
I kinda like the quasi-Civ approach though where you would see the changes you made to the regions over time. A tiny mine growing to a major operation, watching your hunters take down game after you've established yourself in a region, your gardeners/farmers cultivating ever larger plots, that sorta thing... The more money you invest in it (and maybe specialists/equipment), the better the return. Me too. That's what one of the things that's addictive about strategy/resource management games. I don't see why adding a Civ-like component would be a problem, analogous to how Fallout 4 added a Minecraft-like component. It's the same idea, capture an adjacent player base and add it to your own. Of course, if you add Civ-like resource management, the very next thing the strat players will demand is strategic level warfare, commanding hundreds of units. Given the likely plot for DA4, there's more than a reasonable chance that strategic level warfare will be in the story anyway. I bet that was your plan all along! Supersize tactical mode to Total War strategic mode.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 24, 2016 4:09:49 GMT
I kinda like the quasi-Civ approach though where you would see the changes you made to the regions over time. A tiny mine growing to a major operation, watching your hunters take down game after you've established yourself in a region, your gardeners/farmers cultivating ever larger plots, that sorta thing... The more money you invest in it (and maybe specialists/equipment), the better the return. Me too. That's what one of the things that's addictive about strategy/resource management games. I don't see why adding a Civ-like component would be a problem, analogous to how Fallout 4 added a Minecraft-like component. It's the same idea, capture an adjacent player base and add it to your own. Of course, if you add Civ-like resource management, the very next thing the strat players will demand is strategic level warfare, commanding hundreds of units. Given the likely plot for DA4, there's more than a reasonable chance that strategic level warfare will be in the story anyway. I bet that was your plan all along! Supersize tactical mode to Total War strategic mode. Though we have no information on it i would be a lot mor confident that the next game will be smaller in scope then DA I. If any game would add a strategic component it would havebeen DA I
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Post by eriador117 on Nov 24, 2016 11:36:13 GMT
I love that idea. Find a mine, send your minions to get the resources Or a gardener, or herbalist for the plants.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 16:34:45 GMT
I like your idea, Hrungr. When you visit the mines you could clear them of baddies and creepy crawlies and the more you upgrade the mines the more challenging the enemies could get.
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 24, 2016 18:50:59 GMT
I kinda like the quasi-Civ approach though where you would see the changes you made to the regions over time. A tiny mine growing to a major operation, watching your hunters take down game after you've established yourself in a region, your gardeners/farmers cultivating ever larger plots, that sorta thing... The more money you invest in it (and maybe specialists/equipment), the better the return. Me too. That's what one of the things that's addictive about strategy/resource management games. I don't see why adding a Civ-like component would be a problem, analogous to how Fallout 4 added a Minecraft-like component. It's the same idea, capture an adjacent player base and add it to your own. Of course, if you add Civ-like resource management, the very next thing the strat players will demand is strategic level warfare, commanding hundreds of units. Given the likely plot for DA4, there's more than a reasonable chance that strategic level warfare will be in the story anyway. I bet that was your plan all along! Supersize tactical mode to Total War strategic mode. It's cool (as a thought exercise) to just keep expanding upon on the idea. Mmm... large scale battles... Even if we didn't have strategic control over troops, I'd love to be in a proper major battle or seige. And I liked Crestwood as an example of being able to make sweeping changes to a region (drain the lake -> deal with a problem) and reap the benefits of that (bring back trade, security, improved weather, and who knows - potentially restore Old Crestwood?). Now that they've teased day/night and seasonal changes in the Secret IP, I'd love to see that carried forward into the next DA game. Watch how our influence changes a region over time and season.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 24, 2016 19:03:29 GMT
Though we have no information on it i would be a lot mor confident that the next game will be smaller in scope then DA I. If any game would add a strategic component it would havebeen DA I I hear ya and that would be wise. But on the other hand, Deus Ex:Mankind Divided got dinged in reviews for being too short. Successful franchises can be victims of their own success. Every new installment has to be bigger and more spectacular.
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 24, 2016 19:17:11 GMT
Though we have no information on it i would be a lot mor confident that the next game will be smaller in scope then DA I. If any game would add a strategic component it would havebeen DA I I hear ya and that would be wise. But on the other hand, Deus Ex:Mankind Divided got dinged in reviews for being too short. Successful franchises can be victims of their own success. Every new installment has to be bigger and more spectacular. Yeah, I can imagine the reaction if DA4 went anything more than modestly smaller in scope...
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Post by colfoley on Nov 24, 2016 20:05:04 GMT
Don't miss understand me i think the game will be similar length similar content similar in terms of companions but i doubt we will be in charge of another organization t the size of the inquisition. I could be wrong but I'm expecting a much more intimate dark and gritty story next time out.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 24, 2016 20:17:53 GMT
Don't miss understand me i think the game will be similar length similar content similar in terms of companions but i doubt we will be in charge of another organization t the size of the inquisition. I could be wrong but I'm expecting a much more intimate dark and gritty story next time out. I guess I misunderstood you before. I thought you meant you'd be more confident that DA4 would come out at all, or in reasonable time, if it were smaller in scope. I too would prefer a more intimate story, with a very small band of almost nobodies, against the backdrop of multiple cataclysmic events. A Rogue One to DAI's A New Hope. But the same thing applies as I said above. If Bioware doesn't outdo it's previous installment in spectacle, there may be fan backlash. More's the pity.
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Post by phoray on Nov 24, 2016 20:55:50 GMT
DAO resource gathering was kinda meh. I prefer just hitting up the elves first and going crazy on the purchase of elf root rather than actually gather the stuff. Gathering only didn't seem to lead to much...gathered. I mean, you definitely couldn't depend on it. Seems gathering was a bit tacked on last minute? DA2 resource gathering was great. Find it once. Have invisble underlings get it for you. The end. DAI resource gathering: I entirely ignored it and pretty much all crafting the first time I played. Dabbled a bit the second round. Got deeper into it the 3rd time, because the following finally sunk in: what the Golden Nug does, I could stop having ugly clothes, and maybe I'd stop dying so easily from bears in the Hinterlands if I made better armor off the bat. On my third round, I was already getting tired a bit of the clicking. The 4th round, I intend to do all these crazy things like...craft a grenade other than the bees one (which I only crafted because the idea amused me. The only other game I've played extensively enough to form an opinion that also had resource gathering? Harvestmoon 64. Considering the whole point of that game was to be the Farmer repetitively gathering things for sale... The only annoying thing about it was that sometimes my vegetables didn't go into the horse's saddle bags, darn it. Wasted good as they splatted on the ground as if I'd intentionally thrown them. haha I lean toward DA2, although I like what you've described about your Civ game. I wish there had been more to do with the Mine in DA2 as well that would have been quite neat. War Table like missions for controlling "Trade" would have been pretty cool.
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floratheelf
198
August 2016
floratheelf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Boku8989
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Post by floratheelf on Nov 25, 2016 11:27:12 GMT
I really didn't mind the harvesting for my pile of stuff in DAI, but then again I liked my shards soo. I know gathering was a bane for many and I really wouldn't like harvesting scrapped, so maybe let us be able to harvest a batch of ingredients at a time? So instead of one blood lotus a plant, let us be able to pick 4-7 per click? Kind of similar to how Skyrim does their ore collecting, but with minerals and plants! But let it not be a skill you have to unlock (wasn't that an option you had at the war room to spend a skill point on? or did you just get a random collection? Don't remember at the moment! ) let it just be something that occurs from the start of the game. This way, I feel, you still "earn" your potion/armor, but at the same time you get to explore/work for the stuff as well!
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