inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 10, 2019 12:18:46 GMT
Interesting Croatian bullpup rifle, the "VHS". It has an ambi charging handle like a G36 and can be made to eject from the left or the right like a FAMAS, which solves a lot of the issues bullpups have when it comes to lefty shooters. I do love me some bullpups. Came back from a gun shop and 9mm target ammo is even cheaper than I remembered it being. I bought a federal box of 50 and it merely cost $13.90 including tax. It's the second cheapest ammo after .22LR afaik. nice! 9mm goes for around $20 - $25 for 50 rounds, around me. a box of 100 .22lr goes for around $12.50 for 100 rds too. I know that, cause that's what I spend every time I go to the range.
|
|
inherit
Mr. Rump
46
0
8,983
Lavochkin
6,785
August 2016
lavochkin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Lavochkin on Apr 11, 2019 11:01:24 GMT
Prices for other ammo here is $20 for either .380 or .45ACP , $30 for .357 and 5.7mm, and $40 for .44 magnum and special. I can't remember what 50 rounds of .38spc costs as i haven't bought any in ages and the last time I bought any was with a 250 round box that costed me around 100 bux. I think i bought like 500 rounds of .22lr for 20 something dollars too.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 11, 2019 11:58:04 GMT
So far, all I have is my .22 and my 9mm. So thats all I've ever looked into, so far as ammo pricing goes. Though the last time my brother in law brought his 5.56 rifle to the range, it was around $25 for 20 rounds. I thought that was ludicrously high, but...*shrug*.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 11, 2019 13:02:03 GMT
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 12, 2019 15:49:03 GMT
pretty neat, I didn't know any of that about these shotguns.
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 13, 2019 0:35:10 GMT
Though the last time my brother in law brought his 5.56 rifle to the range, it was around $25 for 20 rounds. I thought that was ludicrously high, but...*shrug*. It was, must have been some super high end premium match ammunition. The best .223 match ammo I know runs for about 1 buck per round, and something like 25 per 20 is like very good .308 match grade level.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 13, 2019 11:53:46 GMT
Though the last time my brother in law brought his 5.56 rifle to the range, it was around $25 for 20 rounds. I thought that was ludicrously high, but...*shrug*. It was, must have been some super high end premium match ammunition. The best .223 match ammo I know runs for about 1 buck per round, and something like 25 per 20 is like very good .308 match grade level. I don't remember what brand it was. But I don't think it was some high end name brand. I didn't recognize the name at the time.
|
|
inherit
Mr. Rump
46
0
8,983
Lavochkin
6,785
August 2016
lavochkin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Lavochkin on Apr 15, 2019 15:02:42 GMT
Ol' Paul compares the PPK/S with the the Argentine copy of the PPK, the Bersa Thunder, both chambered in .380. The PPK is of course "James Bond's gun".
(I'd roll with the Thunder myself due to cost and a number of other factors).
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 17, 2019 16:42:08 GMT
Oh look, UK folks are dealing with the same misleading crap we're dealing with over here in the US.
|
|
inherit
2754
0
5,955
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,263
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 17, 2019 16:44:56 GMT
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 17, 2019 17:31:20 GMT
My god this is clunky as fuck, I bet it weighs like 15lbs. That way it sucks for quick target transitions and you wont be able to be a good shot with it standing unsupported. Not my kind of rifle. I want a modernized, slim and handy FN-FNC
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 17, 2019 20:36:15 GMT
wow thats alot of accessories. genade laucher, flash hider, very large gas adjustment lever (is that right?), laser, red dox, 4x scope. That poor poor scar.
On a different note, I was considering getting a mini 14 as my first 5.56 rifle. but after watching this, I might just skip it.
|
|
inherit
2754
0
5,955
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,263
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 18, 2019 12:15:15 GMT
wow thats alot of accessories. genade laucher, flash hider, very large gas adjustment lever (is that right?), laser, red dox, 4x scope. That poor poor scar. On a different note, I was considering getting a mini 14 as my first 5.56 rifle. but after watching this, I might just skip it. Then you may not want to see the scar that one of my characters from Fallout 4 is using... 😜
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 18, 2019 13:11:44 GMT
wow thats alot of accessories. genade laucher, flash hider, very large gas adjustment lever (is that right?), laser, red dox, 4x scope. That poor poor scar. Then you may not want to see the scar that one of my characters from Fallout 4 is using... 😜 tbh, I used to think that the more stuff a gun had on it, the cooler it looked. But when I started to seriously get into guns, and feel the weight and recoil they had, I started looking at things differently.
I do like that sight though. I just can't imagine needing everything else. Especially considering 7.62x51/.308 stopping power.
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 18, 2019 15:01:50 GMT
Then you may not want to see the scar that one of my characters from Fallout 4 is using... 😜 tbh, I used to think that the more stuff a gun had on it, the cooler it looked. But when I started to seriously get into guns, and feel the weight and recoil they had, I started looking at things differently.
I do like that sight though. I just can't imagine needing everything else. Especially considering 7.62x51/.308 stopping power.
Thats a .223 SCAR.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 18, 2019 15:05:08 GMT
tbh, I used to think that the more stuff a gun had on it, the cooler it looked. But when I started to seriously get into guns, and feel the weight and recoil they had, I started looking at things differently.
I do like that sight though. I just can't imagine needing everything else. Especially considering 7.62x51/.308 stopping power.
Thats a .223 SCAR. Edit: did you mean the one in the picture?
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 18, 2019 16:31:16 GMT
Edit: did you mean the one in the picture? Yes
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 18, 2019 18:06:08 GMT
Edit: did you mean the one in the picture? Yes ah gotcha. Not sure why anyone would want a scar in 5.56 tbh. At least when they have an AR-15 as an option. As a 7.62/.308 option though, that makes sense to me.
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 18, 2019 18:22:56 GMT
ah gotcha. Not sure why anyone would want a scar in 5.56 tbh. At least when they have an AR-15 as an option. As a 7.62/.308 option though, that makes sense to me. SCAR is a pretty bad weapon anyway, its infamous for having a low service life since it is lightly built and batters itself to death, especially in .308. Also due to the strong vibrations its is know to ruin even expensive optics very quickly by shaking the scope internals loose. If someone gifted me a SCAR I would sell it and buy a 7.62 paratrooper FN-FAL AND a 5.56 FN-FNC or a Steyr AUG and a ton of ammo and mags. They have a great track record and are built like tanks, there are no hidden Gremlins with those.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 18, 2019 18:37:43 GMT
ah gotcha. Not sure why anyone would want a scar in 5.56 tbh. At least when they have an AR-15 as an option. As a 7.62/.308 option though, that makes sense to me. SCAR is a pretty bad weapon anyway, its infamous for having a low service life since it is lightly built and batters itself to death, especially in .308. Also due to the strong vibrations its is know to ruin even expensive optics very quickly by shaking the scope internals loose. If someone gifted me a SCAR I would sell it and buy a 7.62 paratrooper FN-FAL AND a 5.56 FN-FNC or a Steyr AUG and a ton of ammo and mags. They have a great track record and are built like tanks, there are no hidden Gremlins with those. Or an AK in 5.56. Not the most accurate, but still plenty accurate enough. Or in 7.62x39, depending on your local ammo availability.
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 18, 2019 18:56:42 GMT
Or an AK in 5.56. Not the most accurate, but still plenty accurate enough. Or in 7.62x39, depending on your local ammo availability. Yeah, any AK in a halfway decent condition is surely accurate enough, we all get easily carried away with ultimate precision on the shooting range - when in reality 5'' groups at 100 meters or yards is good enough, and nearly every rifle can do that even with mediocre ammo. If you suddenly need way more precision you are in a sniper situation and then you need different equipment and tactics anyway. But as I have said numerous times, in war I'd never go with an ''assault'' rifle, I'd get me a submachine gun. With modern AP ammo armor penetration is nearly identical with the assault rifle, the range and accuracy of a 7.62x25 5.7 or 6.5 submachine gun is more than adequate at typical combat ranges (50-150 meters), its more steady in full auto than an AR and you can typical carry 50% more ammunition because it is smaller and lighter. For example the is the 7.62x25 PP Bizon. Its an AK-style submachine gun in the excellent 7.62x25 pistol round. It has a helical magazine that holds I believe 50 rounds. The round, 7.62x25 TT, about 82 grains at 1900 fp/s.
|
|
inherit
Mr. Rump
46
0
8,983
Lavochkin
6,785
August 2016
lavochkin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Lavochkin on Apr 18, 2019 19:17:23 GMT
Would like a PPS-43 myself.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 18, 2019 19:26:54 GMT
Or an AK in 5.56. Not the most accurate, but still plenty accurate enough. Or in 7.62x39, depending on your local ammo availability. Yeah, any AK in a halfway decent condition is surely accurate enough, we all get easily carried away with ultimate precision on the shooting range - when in reality 5'' groups at 100 meters or yards is good enough, and nearly every rifle can do that even with mediocre ammo. If you suddenly need way more precision you are in a sniper situation and then you need different equipment and tactics anyway. But as I have said numerous times, in war I'd never go with an ''assault'' rifle, I'd get me a submachine gun. With modern AP ammo armor penetration is nearly identical with the assault rifle, the range and accuracy of a 7.62x25 5.7 or 6.5 submachine gun is more than adequate at typical combat ranges (50-150 meters), its more steady in full auto than an AR and you can typical carry 50% more ammunition because it is smaller and lighter. For example the is the 7.62x25 PP Bizon. Its an AK-style submachine gun in the excellent 7.62x25 pistol round. It has a helical magazine that holds I believe 50 rounds. The round, 7.62x25 TT, about 82 grains at 1900 fp/s. Agreed, this would depend on what the situation is. For example, In range did a match, where they took an ak to a competative event, that was designed for AR's. Not sure if I shared that here or not. It did pretty well over all, but had trouble at the long distance target. I think it was around 150 or 200 yards. It was hitting all around the target, but wasn't able to hit the target itself. I think they were using some high quality 7.62 ammo as well, but I'm not 100% on that one.
At the wrap up, they were saying how that accuracy was "Fine" for a battlefield rifle. But for a match rifle, it wasn't up to snuff.
If your looking for the tightest groups possible, you'll probably want an AR in 5.56/.223 (not sure how .223 fares against 5.56, I think 5.56 is better over longer distances).
Also, I actually had no idea they made a rifle like that. I saw a model in one of the TTT games, from youtube. But I thought it was made up. That things recoil and accuracy (in TTT) are terrible. Is it like that IRL?
That aside, I would think any Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) would be like that. Smaller & lighter rounds, so you can carry more of them, and accuracy that works over short to medium range distances.
|
|
inherit
Spirit talker
764
0
16,331
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,261
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 18, 2019 21:51:15 GMT
Heck, if we talk about accuracy even the accuracy of scoped rifles on the range is far superior than what is really needed on the ''battlefield''. Real snipers always aim for the biggest target, which is the torso, and to hit a torso-sized target at extended ranges super accuracy is good to have, but not really needed. For example, in precision rifle matches any accuracy worse than .75 MOA ( 0.75 Inch groups at 100 meters, 1.5'' at 200, 2.25'' at 300 and so on) is bad and pretty much worthless, while in military application scoped rifle accuracy of 1 MOA or even 1.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable, and for designated marksmen rifles 2'' is still ok. With 1 MOA accuracy you can hit a human torso out to 1000yds or more, or a partially exposed target out to 500 yds which covers is 99,99% of the situations a sniper might encounter. Of course this does not mean that you should get all complacent and not strive to become more accurate all the time, or fully unlock the accuracy potential of your weapons platform and yourself, far beyond what is needed. More accuracy is always good if you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. Also, I actually had no idea they made a rifle like that. I saw a model in one of the TTT games, from youtube. But I thought it was made up. That things recoil and accuracy (in TTT) are terrible. Is it like that IRL? That aside, I would think any Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) would be like that. Smaller & lighter rounds, so you can carry more of them, and accuracy that works over short to medium range distances.
Pistol calibers are good, but I would use one of the more potent pistol calibers. For example, 9mm and 45acp are great submachine gun rounds, but only for close ranges. 9mm and 45 really lose a lot of steam at 100 meters or more. Friends let me try one of their 45 and 9mm AR clones, at 100 meters I could only achieve pie-plate accuracy and judging by the drop they really lost a lot of velocity and energy at those range. Now there are calibers like the 7.62x25 or the 5.7x25 which really are more like the missing link between pistol rounds and rifle rounds, they achieve muzzle velocities of 1800-2400 fps compared to the 1000 and 1500 of 45 and 9mm, and that with a far more aerodynamically efficient projectile. They will penetrate a steel NATO helmet at ranges of 300 meters, while having no more recoil or weight than 9x19.
|
|
inherit
1301
bobgoodheart1st mattig89ch
0
8,824
mattig89ch
5,679
August 2016
mattig89ch
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
|
Post by mattig89ch on Apr 19, 2019 10:59:59 GMT
Heck, if we talk about accuracy even the accuracy of scoped rifles on the range is far superior than what is really needed on the ''battlefield''. Real snipers always aim for the biggest target, which is the torso, and to hit a torso-sized target at extended ranges super accuracy is good to have, but not really needed. For example, in precision rifle matches any accuracy worse than .75 MOA ( 0.75 Inch groups at 100 meters, 1.5'' at 200, 2.25'' at 300 and so on) is bad and pretty much worthless, while in military application scoped rifle accuracy of 1 MOA or even 1.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable, and for designated marksmen rifles 2'' is still ok. With 1 MOA accuracy you can hit a human torso out to 1000yds or more, or a partially exposed target out to 500 yds which covers is 99,99% of the situations a sniper might encounter. Of course this does not mean that you should get all complacent and not strive to become more accurate all the time, or fully unlock the accuracy potential of your weapons platform and yourself, far beyond what is needed. More accuracy is always good if you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. I think this would come down to what your given application is. For example, my rifles are target rifles. They have no other purpose in life, and nothing else I can imagine using them for. They will forever be used for only shooting at paper/steel/clay. I don't even keep ammo in the house for them, I buy the ammo at the range, and use it there. I would, ofc, want to get the most accuracy out of them as possible. But they are only ever going to be used for target shooting.
So while I might not need a sub 1 minute gun, it is something I would want. Purely for bragging rights. my .22 can do that at .50 yards, once I properly zero it again. Not sure if my 9mm can do that, but it is something I want to try!
There is also personal finances to take into account here as well. 9mm ammo is cheap, but is 7.62x25 or 5.7x25? If the user can't afford/get a hold of enough ammo to feed their rifle, then all the ballistics in the world won't matter much.
|
|