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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 31, 2016 20:06:33 GMT
Agreed. It's a trope that has overstayed it's welcome in BioWare games. As well as the parental issues with some of the older cast members. Also, you notice that rarely do you see both parents get called by name? For example, I have no idea what the name of Leliana's father was, but she does share the name of her aunt. Or Dorian, who obviously has a poor relationship with his mother. He never says her name either. In fact, much of that list leaves at least one parent unnamed. Maybe it's just me, but it can be immersion breaking at times. Maybe it's because I can't relate to that at all. My folks are still alive, still happily married. I was mad at them when I was in my teens and early 20s, but I grew up and got over it. I know BioWare can do better than leaning so hard on that trope. Would you consider breaking out your analysis to a separate thread/post? Then you could Tweet it to Patrick Weekes as food for thought. I'm dead serious -- I'd bet the writing team has never seen this sort of analysis before. It's eye-opening. Assuming it wasn't intentional globally. I'm sure it was intentional on a case-by-case basis, but without realizing how that accumulates to a pretty big statement.
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Post by Natashina on Jan 1, 2017 1:21:39 GMT
Agreed. It's a trope that has overstayed it's welcome in BioWare games. As well as the parental issues with some of the older cast members. Also, you notice that rarely do you see both parents get called by name? For example, I have no idea what the name of Leliana's father was, but she does share the name of her aunt. Or Dorian, who obviously has a poor relationship with his mother. He never says her name either. In fact, much of that list leaves at least one parent unnamed. Maybe it's just me, but it can be immersion breaking at times. Maybe it's because I can't relate to that at all. My folks are still alive, still happily married. I was mad at them when I was in my teens and early 20s, but I grew up and got over it. I know BioWare can do better than leaning so hard on that trope. Would you consider breaking out your analysis to a separate thread/post? Then you could Tweet it to Patrick Weekes as food for thought. I'm dead serious -- I'd bet the writing team has never seen this sort of analysis before. It's eye-opening. Assuming it wasn't intentional globally. I'm sure it was intentional on a case-by-case basis, but without realizing how that accumulates to a pretty big statement. Well, I didn't realize that this was a unique perspective for you. I deleted my twitter account when the BioWare forum closure was announced. However, if you'd like, I can recreate the post and send it to you. If you have twitter, please send that his way. I don't think they've sat down and really looked at that before. I'm feel quite certain that it wasn't intentional globally. They were just thinking about creating interesting stories for their characters. Out of curosity, what kind of statement do you think BioWare is trying to make here? I guess I don't see a statement. I see it more as they've fallen into the rut with family because it makes for a good literary shortcut. Unless overdone to hell and back.
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Post by phoray on Jan 1, 2017 1:38:27 GMT
NatashinaI thought the casteless dwarf father(s) were just dead beat casteless. I'm not even certain Rika isn't a half sister. Anders was late to his magic and I thought he like both his parents, but maybe I'm forgetting that part. Jowan's father hated him, but I think his mother loved him.
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Post by Natashina on Jan 1, 2017 3:22:58 GMT
phoray I think you're right about the Casteless. The dad is still absent and unnamed though. Anders may have liked his parents, but he showed no evidence of still being in contact with his parents. From what I can tell, he hasn't been in touch with them since he went to the Kinloc Hold. Jowan doesn't count. He's a temp party member, never names his parents and he still has one parent that might hate him. I'd mentioned Dorian in my post even though his parents are still alive. However, of course at least one parent goes unnamed and of course he's on bad terms with them. My point was that BioWare seems to have a lot of trouble doing a stable family. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The only two significant characters that talk about their family and have a stable relationship with both parents is Cullen and Josie. Figures that they are not party members. I know that in a semi crapsack world like Thedas there is a good shot of folks orphaned or otherwise down to one parent. I'm fine with that. I'm betting plenty of people lost a parent or both in one of the conflicts that's constantly going on. Like during the war with Orlais or during the Blight. My thing is that they rely on that too much. The fact that they have trouble giving both parents names bugs me. It would be nice to have a party member (that does discuss their parents) to say something like, "Oh yeah, my mom's name is Renee. She's a baker. My dad's name is John and they work together. They're alive, happy and look forward to my letters. I can't wait to see them." Edit: Wow, okay. I'm getting way off topic. I'll be starting a thread dedicated to this tomorrow. My husband doesn't have to work tonight. We're going to watch the Secret Life of Pets later.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jan 1, 2017 4:02:31 GMT
Well, we kinda got the "normal" thing with Scout Harding, but she's not a companion either.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 1, 2017 20:52:22 GMT
Out of curosity, what kind of statement do you think BioWare is trying to make here? I guess I don't see a statement. I see it more as they've fallen into the rut with family because it makes for a good literary shortcut. Unless overdone to hell and back. I don't think the parent thing was an intentional statement, but the stronger the statement, the less it matters that it was intentional. How it's perceived becomes more important than how it was intended. If they don't mean for players to read something into the death toll/absence of parents, like for example -- only orphans can be heroes, or parents somehow prevent you from contributing to saving the world -- maybe that's something they ought to look into.
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 2, 2017 7:57:57 GMT
For the first time, I just saw a sentinel at Skyhold after What Pride Had Wrought. Also, a question about Solas came to mind: Why does he reject the power of the well himself, encouraging Morrigan or the Inquisitor to take it instead, given what he is planning to do? Why would he want to give them (especially the Inquisitor) more information?
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Post by Gilli on Jan 2, 2017 12:28:11 GMT
For the first time, I just saw a sentinel at Skyhold after What Pride Had Wrought. Also, a question about Solas came to mind: Why does he reject the power of the well himself, encouraging Morrigan or the Inquisitor to take it instead, given what he is planning to do? Why would he want to give them (especially the Inquisitor) more information? Because he would've been bound to Mythal/Flemeth. You know how Morrigan tries to attack her and then can't, because she either herself stops the spell, or the Inquisitor (if they drank from the Well) stops her. That would've happened to Solas too.
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 2, 2017 17:10:43 GMT
For the first time, I just saw a sentinel at Skyhold after What Pride Had Wrought. Also, a question about Solas came to mind: Why does he reject the power of the well himself, encouraging Morrigan or the Inquisitor to take it instead, given what he is planning to do? Why would he want to give them (especially the Inquisitor) more information? Because he would've been bound to Mythal/Flemeth. You know how Morrigan tries to attack her and then can't, because she either herself stops the spell, or the Inquisitor (if they drank from the Well) stops her. That would've happened to Solas too. I meant, why not discourage them from taking it at all? Fear of Corypheus having that same knowledge is all I can think of.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 2, 2017 17:31:36 GMT
Because he would've been bound to Mythal/Flemeth. You know how Morrigan tries to attack her and then can't, because she either herself stops the spell, or the Inquisitor (if they drank from the Well) stops her. That would've happened to Solas too. I meant, why not discourage them from taking it at all? Fear of Corypheus having that same knowledge is all I can think of. Because the Wisdom of the Well would've been lost without someone drinking from it. <-- if you destroy the Well, I mean. While he doesn't like Morrigan, she has the knowledge to be able to handle the Wisdom/Power of the Well and Solas knows that. As for the Inquisitor, if they're his friend, he may disagree with their choice of drinking from the Well, but the Wisdom would still be in good hands. <-- I'm talking about an Inquisitor who is friends with Solas, I have no idea how he reacts to one he doesn't like. (hell, he even liked Greed, and Greed was the jerkiest of my Inquisitors so far (he didn't drink from the Well tho ))
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Post by xerrai on Jan 2, 2017 23:57:10 GMT
I meant, why not discourage them from taking it at all? Fear of Corypheus having that same knowledge is all I can think of. Because the Wisdom of the Well would've been lost without someone drinking from it. <-- if you destroy the Well, I mean. While he doesn't like Morrigan, she has the knowledge to be able to handle the Wisdom/Power of the Well and Solas knows that. As for the Inquisitor, if they're his friend, he may disagree with their choice of drinking from the Well, but the Wisdom would still be in good hands. <-- I'm talking about an Inquisitor who is friends with Solas, I have no idea how he reacts to one he doesn't like. (hell, he even liked Greed, and Greed was the jerkiest of my Inquisitors so far (he didn't drink from the Well tho ))I'm fairly certain that particular scene was not....cohesive. The writers admitted that there was some scripting errors when they were making it (like the infamous "who is Mythal" for a Dalish Inquisitor) and that communication wasn't at its best when it was being made. But assuming it was intentional and intended, I would like the think that while he did not approve of simply destroying/leaving the well he did not like either of the options (Morrigan/Inquisitor) from taking it. But of the two, he has a higher probability of manipulating Morrigan later. Her pride alone makes her easy to goad into rash action, and of the two, Morrigan does not have an Inquisition at her back. So I guess it was simply a matter of who would be easier to deal with later. Though if he had a high enough approval with the Inquisitor, wanting them to be safe from the well's influence could be a factor too.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 3, 2017 3:29:42 GMT
Guys guys. So I need clarification on this but I was playing In Hushed Whispers again and you know the dude who drops the unique dagger? The Bleeder of Souls? The one that drops from the torturer that is torturing a Chantry sister?
His name was Hanley. And I seriously need to reload a save and double check this but wasn't there a Hanley in modern Redcliffe? A loyalist too if I recall. I mean, I tried all the angles to get a look at his face but spellbinders have a bad habit of hunching over all the time but he kind of sounded similar too....
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jan 3, 2017 3:51:00 GMT
Is Hanley the one hanging out by the shops, next to the griffon statue?
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Post by phoray on Jan 5, 2017 1:01:58 GMT
I just heard two city elves mention the Well of Sorrows at the Winter Palace. Neat.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 5, 2017 23:45:06 GMT
Is Hanley the one hanging out by the shops, next to the griffon statue? Yeah, Hanley's the guy next to the Warden statue in Redcliffe. My suspicion is that he was actually one of the Venatori from the start, rather than becoming a turncoat and full-blown sadistic torturer in the Dark Future. Fiona mentions at Skyhold that Venatori infiltrators managed to slip into the rebellion's ranks and they were the ones who encouraged the alliance with Alexius and Tevinter. What better way to throw the Inquisitor off the scent by pretending to be a Loyalist, fervent Andrastian and anti-Tevinter when they speak to him?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 4:42:54 GMT
I found a path leading behind the Dirth in the Exulted Plains and there I found large goldfish with half a man in its mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 4:44:49 GMT
Natashina Disney also has a problem with parents.
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Post by fylimar on Jan 6, 2017 11:44:53 GMT
Noticed for the first time that Harrit that blacksmith is talking to a tranquil mage. And also he is mostly nice to everyone, what he said to that tranquil was a bit heartless, but I guess, that conversation should show, how non-magic people view mages. I needed two playthroughs to realise, that those skulls, you need for finding the shards, were made from murdered tranquils. I never did the shard quests again, it just freaked me out too much. And I just realise after I've been there 15 times or so, that there is a nice landscape to discover behind the dragon lair in the Hinterlands. NatashinaI really like your observation about characters with family issues in Bioware games. I played a lot of them (Baldurs Gate 1&2, KOTOR 1&2, Jade Empire, all DA and ME 1 among others) and I really can't remember a character with a full, normal and happy family. It bothers me too in fact, because I have my folks alive and well and I'm on really good terms with them. I'd like to see that once in a while in a computer game too. I mean, you could be far away and only mention them - not much needed there. A Shephard could visit her/his parents between the games or offscreen, a Warden could mention them or they could get introduced in the origin (would it have been so hard to give the City elf two living parents or the Dalish or let Amell or Surana mention theirs? It makes sense kind of storywise for the two nobles and the casteless to loose their parents or have crapy parents to begin with, but for the rest, it would not make much difference).
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Post by phoray on Jan 6, 2017 20:09:14 GMT
I found a path leading behind the Dirth in the Exulted Plains and there I found large goldfish with half a man in its mouth. I saw that just last week and mentioned it in another thread! Crazy stuff, huh?
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Post by phoray on Jan 6, 2017 20:13:00 GMT
I didn't notice till this playthrough that the Empress, Duke, and Briala retreat to their balconies and you can talk to them. I'd only ever asked the hand maidens to let me talk to Celene before.
Still don't know why folks pick Gaspard though. He so readily admits to plans to execute a portion of the Orlesian nobility, and start wars wth Nevarra and Fereldan. Would even a noble Free Marcher be okay with that? Maybe a war liking Carta dwarf?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 1:13:29 GMT
If you look closely at Hawke's character card, you can see DA:2 travel map of Kirkwall.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 3:09:51 GMT
I found a path leading behind the Dirth in the Exulted Plains and there I found large goldfish with half a man in its mouth. Can I ask you what is the Dirth and where to find it? The Dirth is what the dalish call the elven grave yard where the dalish keeper asks you to clear out some demons.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 7, 2017 19:24:13 GMT
I found a path leading behind the Dirth in the Exulted Plains and there I found large goldfish with half a man in its mouth. Can I ask you what is the Dirth and where to find it? Probably meant Var Bellanaris/Unadin Grotto. Anyway, that's where that fish vs. man tableau is. Go to 12 on the map below and just follow the water/beach south until you find it. game-maps.com/DAI/The-Exalted-Plains.asp
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Post by phoray on Jan 8, 2017 23:11:45 GMT
If you do all of Emprise Du Lion BEFORE Cullen asks you to find the Samson Letters... The scene will be different. And one of the funniest lines of the game (to me) will be a dialogue option.
Paraphrase Cullen: "And do you know where the operation ended up being?"
Pick Dialogue option: under Skyhold.
It was female American VA and she nailed it. I rewatched the scene three times, laughing all the way.
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Post by phoray on Jan 9, 2017 1:28:59 GMT
I just now noticed that at the Black Emporium in DAI, there is a little dog-sized polar bear scampering around. It's so cute. His name is Chauncy and he was miniaturized by a Tevinter Mage at great expense. Be careful, he nips. I paid more attention my most recent visit. ^^
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