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Post by oyabun on Dec 6, 2016 19:30:50 GMT
To me DAO has the best list of companions in any Bioware game. I can't honestly say that I have a problem with any of them, they are each unique to the point I can easily forgive them for their minor annoyances/faults due to how well their characters are written. For example, Morrigan's gripe with helping the townspeople gets old, but it's so fitting to how she was raised that I can't hold it against her. Shale is just amazing, and I love how she can grow to accept the Warden, squishy flesh and all. Alistair can be whiny/clueless but he's as loyal as anyone can possibly be. Wynne doesn't have a 'demanding' presence, but she's so motherly- plus she has one of the best talks with the Warden in the game (Gryphons, anyone? ) I think you all get the hint. I can go on about all of them, and though I consider Loghain dishonest and treacherous, he's not a black and white character, so he even gets a pass from being a "crappy" companion. The funny thing about Loghain is that he isn't willingfull dishonest like your Orlesian noble who is able to perform schemes and complex intrigues in order to gain power and influence,he truly believed to be in the right,he is just insane and lost his mind in DAO,pretty much like Anders in DAII. as for the topic i will vote Dog because "reasons" nah just kidding.
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Post by oyabun on Dec 6, 2016 19:40:46 GMT
Morrigan because she's a loathsome hypocrite,an obnoxious character who think to know better than everyone on everything and that see people just as mere tools for an end. Hypocrite? O.o I think Morrigan is hypocrite,or at least she displayed hypocrisy on several quests during DAO. Right at the beginning of the game in Lothering she first insist that the merchant there is in the right and should profit from the situation but then if the warden decided to kill the merchant(without any valid reason) she says that the merchant deserved to be killed because he was profiting from the situation,so she is happy that she is dead even if she was the one that supported that behaviour in the first place,which lead me to believe that she just enjoyed the violence of the act. there are others examples.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 6, 2016 19:42:05 GMT
To me DAO has the best list of companions in any Bioware game. I can't honestly say that I have a problem with any of them, they are each unique to the point I can easily forgive them for their minor annoyances/faults due to how well their characters are written. For example, Morrigan's gripe with helping the townspeople gets old, but it's so fitting to how she was raised that I can't hold it against her. Shale is just amazing, and I love how she can grow to accept the Warden, squishy flesh and all. Alistair can be whiny/clueless but he's as loyal as anyone can possibly be. Wynne doesn't have a 'demanding' presence, but she's so motherly- plus she has one of the best talks with the Warden in the game (Gryphons, anyone? ) I think you all get the hint. I can go on about all of them, and though I consider Loghain dishonest and treacherous, he's not a black and white character, so he even gets a pass from being a "crappy" companion. The funny thing about Loghain is that he isn't willingfull dishonest like your Orlesian noble who is able to perform schemes and complex intrigues in order to gain power and influence,he truly believed to be in the right,he is just insane and lost his mind in DAO,pretty much like Anders in DAII. as for the topic i will vote Dog because "reasons" nah just kidding. No, Loghain isn't Anders. The political power made him paranoid, and because of his hatred toward the orlesians, he lost his common sense, but Loghain wasn't lunatic. Loghain had abused his political power. And Anders did not give his people into slavery. Loghain is different, much worse than Anders, even if you consider Anders a crazy terrorist.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 6, 2016 20:10:35 GMT
I think Morrigan is hypocrite,or at least she displayed hypocrisy on several quests during DAO. Right at the beginning of the game in Lothering she first insist that the merchant there is in the right and should profit from the situation but then if the warden decided to kill the merchant(without any valid reason) she says that the merchant deserved to be killed because he was profiting from the situation,so she is happy that she is dead even if she was the one that supported that behaviour in the first place,which lead me to believe that she just enjoyed the violence of the act. there are others examples. I can't call this "hypocrisy". Morrigan have some greater or lesser flaws, but as I see, the hypocrisy's not among them.
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Post by Domakir on Dec 6, 2016 20:16:40 GMT
or at least she displayed hypocrisy on several quests during DAO. Now that I think about it that happens with a lot of characters not only Morrigan.
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Post by Verro on Dec 7, 2016 0:02:21 GMT
Zevran, not because I don't like the character. But because he starts out so shitty talent wise.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:10:31 GMT
Meh, I liked everyone in DAO. Loghian including. It was interesting betraying Alistair for once... I never thought I'd do it, but I did.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 7, 2016 1:17:17 GMT
Meh, I liked everyone in DAO. Loghian including. It was interesting betraying Alistair for once... I never thought I'd do it, but I did. It's not REALLY betrayal, only Alistair consider it as betrayal, but this is a simple decision (it is not even mercy). If warden let Anora to behead Alistair, well that's betrayal.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 1:39:45 GMT
Meh, I liked everyone in DAO. Loghian including. It was interesting betraying Alistair for once... I never thought I'd do it, but I did. It's not REALLY betrayal, only Alistair consider it as betrayal, but this is a simple decision (it is not even mercy). If warden let Anora to behead Alistair, well that's betrayal. Eh, but I left him to be a wandering drunk though, dats pretty terrible. My Aeducan had no mercy for Alistair.. Lol. Considering I was gonna make them queen and king together, I feel like fudge bout that.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 7, 2016 1:42:24 GMT
It's not REALLY betrayal, only Alistair consider it as betrayal, but this is a simple decision (it is not even mercy). If warden let Anora to behead Alistair, well that's betrayal. Eh, but I left him to be a wandering drunk though, dats pretty terrible. My Aeducan had no mercy for Alistair.. Lol. Considering I was gonna make them queen and king together, I feel like fudge bout that. It's also a decision.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 7, 2016 5:20:33 GMT
Zevran. He tried to kill me. So I return the favor.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 7:14:21 GMT
I think Morrigan is hypocrite,or at least she displayed hypocrisy on several quests during DAO. Right at the beginning of the game in Lothering she first insist that the merchant there is in the right and should profit from the situation but then if the warden decided to kill the merchant(without any valid reason) she says that the merchant deserved to be killed because he was profiting from the situation,so she is happy that she is dead even if she was the one that supported that behaviour in the first place,which lead me to believe that she just enjoyed the violence of the act. there are others examples. Really? Because I killed the merchant a few days ago and she didn't say anything like that. I only had her and dog in my party, so was it a response to another party member?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 7:19:25 GMT
Zevran, not because I don't like the character. But because he starts out so shitty talent wise. Zevran is a filthy liar. He told me he could pick locks.
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Post by correctamundo on Dec 7, 2016 8:33:05 GMT
Zevran, not because I don't like the character. But because he starts out so shitty talent wise. Zevran is a filthy liar. He told me he could pick locks. =D We keep having that discussion. Zev: I could do that for you. Me: No you can't. Zev: I could do that for you. Me: For the millionth time, stop with that. You're fooling no one but yourself, ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 11:54:28 GMT
I'm the first vote for Sten? Ehhh I'm not keen on the guy, he's so far up his own ass it annoys me. But 'he's so big and muscly and has horns!' just doesn't fly with me. I'm forever mystified that ppl will jump to defend Sten's actions but are happy to hang Morrigan, Zevran or Loghain for theirs. Of course Loghain is my waifu so I won't hear anything against him. Not at all biased, honest.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 7, 2016 11:57:19 GMT
Zevran. He tried to kill me. So I return the favor. Loghain?
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Post by Prince on Dec 7, 2016 11:59:52 GMT
I don't think Loghain should be in the list,he wasn't a companion for the majority of the game and even if he is recruited he is basically a lackey of the protagonist,a very good lackey at least for me.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 7, 2016 12:00:05 GMT
I'm the first vote for Sten? Ehhh I'm not keen on the guy, he's so far up his own ass it annoys me. But 'he's so big and muscly and has horns!' just doesn't fly with me. I'm forever mystified that ppl will jump to defend Sten's actions but are happy to hang Morrigan, Zevran or Loghain for theirs. Of course Loghain is my waifu so I won't hear anything against him. Not at all biased, honest. Sten is fun, I like him. I want to defend him!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 12:02:34 GMT
I'm the first vote for Sten? Ehhh I'm not keen on the guy, he's so far up his own ass it annoys me. But 'he's so big and muscly and has horns!' just doesn't fly with me. I'm forever mystified that ppl will jump to defend Sten's actions but are happy to hang Morrigan, Zevran or Loghain for theirs. Of course Loghain is my waifu so I won't hear anything against him. Not at all biased, honest. Sten is fun, I like him. I want to defend him! Is he your waifu?
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Post by Catilina on Dec 7, 2016 12:10:35 GMT
Sten is fun, I like him. I want to defend him! Is he your waifu? No, mostly Zevran, I just like him... but... not excluded!
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 7, 2016 12:21:56 GMT
The funny thing about Loghain is that he isn't willingfull dishonest like your Orlesian noble who is able to perform schemes and complex intrigues in order to gain power and influence,he truly believed to be in the right,he is just insane and lost his mind in DAO,pretty much like Anders in DAII. as for the topic i will vote Dog because "reasons" nah just kidding. No, Loghain isn't Anders. The political power made him paranoid, and because of his hatred toward the orlesians, he lost his common sense, but Loghain wasn't lunatic. Loghain had abused his political power. And Anders did not give his people into slavery. Loghain is different, much worse than Anders, even if you consider Anders a crazy terrorist. Anders is much worse than Loghain no matter how you want to push it. -Loghain did great things for Ferelden in the past and that's why he earned the title of Hero,in Ostagar he did Imho an intelligent move and his later crimes(which i don't condone)against elves especially are a pretty common abuse among humans ladies and lords of nobility who treat elves as second class citizens,Celine and Gaspard in Orlais treat them even worse. Loghain has at least in game a chanche to be reedemed in part. -Anders on the other hand(who wasn't even a former Hero so he literally did nothing positive in the same magnitude of Loghain) is a total criminal who not only killed a lot of people as a direct result of the explosion but that even contribute to trigger a continental war.
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Post by mousestalker on Dec 7, 2016 12:29:57 GMT
I like the Sten's banter with Shale too much to dislike him. Not much of a reason, but there you are...
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Post by Catilina on Dec 7, 2016 12:43:55 GMT
No, Loghain isn't Anders. The political power made him paranoid, and because of his hatred toward the orlesians, he lost his common sense, but Loghain wasn't lunatic. Loghain had abused his political power. And Anders did not give his people into slavery. Loghain is different, much worse than Anders, even if you consider Anders a crazy terrorist. Anders is much worse than Loghain no matter how you want to push it. -Loghain did great things for Ferelden in the past and that's why he earned the title of Hero,in Ostagar he did Imho an intelligent move and his later crimes(which i don't condone)against elves especially are a pretty common abuse among humans ladies and lords of nobility who treat elves as second class citizens,Celine and Gaspard in Orlais treat them even worse. Loghain has at least in game a chanche to be reedemed in part. -Anders on the other hand(who wasn't even a former Hero so he literally did nothing positive in the same magnitude of Loghain) is a total criminal who not only killed a lot of people as a direct result of the explosion but that even contribute to trigger a continental war. For Ferelden Loghain sold the Ferelden elves. For Ferelden Loghain hunted the Ferelden Wardens. For Ferelden Loghin supported the corruption (Howe for example). (I not mention the "tactical retreat".) True, Anders was not a "Legendary Hero", nor a regent, just a mage, but in my story he was one of the heroes of Amaranthine, and he was a hero of refugees in his clinic (I know, to heal people not so heroic thing, than to kill people...), and hero of many mages in Kirkwall (before the explosion as well). This was what he was able to do it in his position. His cause was right, as you think, Loghain's cause as well, his tool was questionable, as Loghain's tools as well... or no. Loghain's tools was worse. Interesting, that you able to accept Loghain's tools, but refuse Anders' tool. Loghain had political power for the change or whatever, and he abused with that. THIS was his greatest sin. (You sure, that only Anders was alone, who ignited the war? This was a thousand-years oppression, I think so much people wanted this revolution...)
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 7, 2016 13:09:52 GMT
Anders is much worse than Loghain no matter how you want to push it. -Loghain did great things for Ferelden in the past and that's why he earned the title of Hero,in Ostagar he did Imho an intelligent move and his later crimes(which i don't condone)against elves especially are a pretty common abuse among humans ladies and lords of nobility who treat elves as second class citizens,Celine and Gaspard in Orlais treat them even worse. Loghain has at least in game a chanche to be reedemed in part. -Anders on the other hand(who wasn't even a former Hero so he literally did nothing positive in the same magnitude of Loghain) is a total criminal who not only killed a lot of people as a direct result of the explosion but that even contribute to trigger a continental war. For Ferelden Loghain sold the Ferelden elves. For Ferelden Loghain hunted the Ferelden Wardens. For Ferelden Loghin supported the corruption (Howe for example). (I not mention the "tactical retreat".) True, Anders was not a "Legendary Hero", nor a regent, just a mage, but in my story he was one of the heroes of Amaranthine, and he was a hero of refugees in his clinic (I know, to heal people not so heroic thing, than to kill people...), and hero of many mages in Kirkwall (before the explosion as well). This was what he was able to do it in his position. His cause was right (as you think, Loghain's cause as well), his tool was questionable (as Loghain's tools as well... or no. Loghain's tools was worse.) You sure, that only he was alone, who ignited the war? This was a thousand-years oppression, I think so much people wanted this revolution... -I addressed your first point when i said that elves are treated poorly by most Human lords and that what Loghain did to fund his army as despicable as it was is no where near comparable to what Celine and Gaspard and many of the Chevaliers do,the lords of Tevinter ecc... ,elves are treated poorly within this world that why there's the whole Solas plotline that's going on. -Grey wardens were not trusted in Ferleden and they were all punished and killed By Arland Theirin(Arland not just your average Loghain),Loghain wasn't the only one who had distrust towards them,their order being pointlessly secretive with a General in Ostagar just made things worse,as they didn't even bother to let him know why they are required in the first place. And the PC traveling with Qunari spies,Orlesians bards,Witches and a Bastard prince is suspicious. -You didn't even understood why Loghain had Howe around,what Howe tooks from the nobles he took with his own resources and by force not thanks to Loghain who never helped him but of course without Howe Loghain would have been stuck in a war against 3 opponents(Howe,the nobles,the GW)so that's why he tried to use Howe for his own ends but was in the end used by him. The only significant person who ignited the war was Anders (Fiona and co. came later also as a consequence of the turmoil)when he created that remendous scenario in Kirkwall,i doubt taht wihtout that explosion there would have been a war and to my knowledge is what Anders said,he bombed the chantry because he wanted to start the war that's was his reason
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Post by correctamundo on Dec 7, 2016 13:15:59 GMT
Anders is much worse than Loghain no matter how you want to push it. -Loghain did great things for Ferelden in the past and that's why he earned the title of Hero,in Ostagar he did Imho an intelligent move and his later crimes(which i don't condone)against elves especially are a pretty common abuse among humans ladies and lords of nobility who treat elves as second class citizens,Celine and Gaspard in Orlais treat them even worse. Loghain has at least in game a chanche to be reedemed in part. -Anders on the other hand(who wasn't even a former Hero so he literally did nothing positive in the same magnitude of Loghain) is a total criminal who not only killed a lot of people as a direct result of the explosion but that even contribute to trigger a continental war. For Ferelden Loghain sold the Ferelden elves. For Ferelden Loghain hunted the Ferelden Wardens. For Ferelden Loghin supported the corruption (Howe for example). (I not mention the "tactical retreat".) True, Anders was not a "Legendary Hero", nor a regent, just a mage, but in my story he was one of the heroes of Amaranthine, and he was a hero of refugees in his clinic (I know, to heal people not so heroic thing, than to kill people...), and hero of many mages in Kirkwall (before the explosion as well). This was what he was able to do it in his position. His cause was right, as you think, Loghain's cause as well, his tool was questionable, as Loghain's tools as well... or no. Loghain's tools was worse. Interesting, that you able to accept Loghain's tools, but refuse Anders' tool. Loghain had political power for the change or whatever, and he abused with that. THIS was his greatest sin. (You sure, that only Anders was alone, who ignited the war? This was a thousand-years oppression, I think so much people wanted this revolution...) Sure, there is no excuse for bombing the chantry but up to that moment Anders was indeed a true hero. I salute him!
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