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Post by oyabun on Mar 28, 2017 22:21:47 GMT
I've already discussed this whole argument by pointing out as evidence the cut contents of the game where it was possible to have them both at the same time later deleted to build the ending they had in mind.
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Post by Aren on Mar 28, 2017 22:35:52 GMT
The Landsmeet is very silly. The compromise that Riordan proposes is a fair one, and would satisfy the needs of justice. Its been established that regardless of Loghian's crimes, he was only doing it all for the good of the nation. That doesn't excuse his actions, and being made into a Warden is still a death sentence. Alistair's objections are understandable from an emotional standpoint, but clearly out of line. You, Anora and Eamon can have engaged in serious political wrangling to get a compromise that everyone can live with, you have just fought a battle of words in the Landsmeet to convince the Banns that the Wardens are not political opportunists, Orlesian puppers and tyrants in waiting. If Alistair's first action as King is to execute a man who has surrendered, how does that look?! Especially as he then goes on to seize lands and give them over to the administration of the Wardens, whose members typically frown on such things (Riordan expresses disdain for Wardens who do such things, and Duncan is clearly against such practices too). Nobody really wants to lose Alistair and the game doesn't really feel right if you lose him, but his stance here was so unreasonable. And the 'chop Loghain's head off in public, so his blood spalshes over his daughter's face' is so barbaric that it feels like you've stumbled into 'I, Claudius'.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Mar 28, 2017 22:39:53 GMT
I agree that death killing scene is barbaric,if stupid Gaider writed that for Loghain then he should have provided the same option against all dangerous characters. Alistair's death can't be seen at the Landsmeet in screen only Loghain is murdered that way even Howe has a far less barbaric death. That biased writer allowed to kill only the characters he didn't liked in that game.
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skeksi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by skeksi on Mar 30, 2017 20:14:35 GMT
The Landsmeet is very silly. The compromise that Riordan proposes is a fair one, and would satisfy the needs of justice. Its been established that regardless of Loghian's crimes, he was only doing it all for the good of the nation. That doesn't excuse his actions, and being made into a Warden is still a death sentence. Alistair's objections are understandable from an emotional standpoint, but clearly out of line. You, Anora and Eamon can have engaged in serious political wrangling to get a compromise that everyone can live with, you have just fought a battle of words in the Landsmeet to convince the Banns that the Wardens are not political opportunists, Orlesian puppers and tyrants in waiting. If Alistair's first action as King is to execute a man who has surrendered, how does that look?! Especially as he then goes on to seize lands and give them over to the administration of the Wardens, whose members typically frown on such things (Riordan expresses disdain for Wardens who do such things, and Duncan is clearly against such practices too). Nobody really wants to lose Alistair and the game doesn't really feel right if you lose him, but his stance here was so unreasonable. And the 'chop Loghain's head off in public, so his blood spalshes over his daughter's face' is so barbaric that it feels like you've stumbled into 'I, Claudius'. All this is basically the reason I decided Alistair would not make much of a king. As you say, you, Anora and Eamon sit there wrangling out a compromise that will allow you to pull Fereldan together and deal with the Blight, whilst Alistair just stands by taking no real part in it. Then he throws it aside, and abandons the order he claims to care about so much. Not to mention: "I don't want to be king" "I REALLY don't want to be king" "OK, fine, but I won't like it" "GIMME THE CROWN SO I CAN MURDER THIS GUY IN FRONT OF HIS DAUGHTER!" Is probably not the best answer to "So why do you feel you would be good for this role as the King of Fereldan?" At the end of the day, it's a bad decision, and I think the game treats it as such - after all, if Alistair abandons both the Grey Wardens AND Fereldan (by refusing to work with Loghain or marry Anora/ take the throne himself) he can either end up dead or as a bitter drunk lurking in a Kirkwall tavern, and Loghain's death isn't exactly played as "Yeah, sweet righteous justic has been done" - as you say, it's pretty barbaric. I think it's interesting from a character perspective, because up to this point, Alistair has certainly been towards the "Paragon" end of the scale (if you will ) amongst your companions - compared to Morrigan who is often ruthlessly pragmatic and hard, compared to Sten and Leliana and Zevran who have all done some pretty dark stuff in their pasts, Alistair is a pleasant - if somewhat indecisive and often passive aggressive - guy whose big dark secrets are more related to who he is than what he has done in the past. You could argue that he hasn't really been tested up to this point, that the Landsmeet is where you get to see what Alistair is made of, and he messes up. I guess it depends on the player and the character how that choice can end up - whether they support Alistair in his decision, whether they sympathise but choose the greater good or whether they think "Good Riddance!" and use it as an excuse to get shot of him. Depending on how you're thinking of it in your head, if Alistair has disagreed with a lot of your decisions in the rest of the game, you could play it as sparing Loghain being the straw that breaks the camel's back, and Alistair's reaction being partly to do with the previous actions of HoF bringing disgrace to the Grey Wardens. That rather depends on your having had that sort of playthrough, though.
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Norstaera
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Stealth Swooper
This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Norstaera on Apr 10, 2017 13:32:42 GMT
I would have loved the option to have Loghain and Alistair at the same time. Loghain, Alistair, and Wynne in your party at the same time . . . I can feel my Warden's headache.
That would only work if Alistair were already hardened. Unhardened Alistair wouldn't be able to deal.
Imagine the final battle on top of Drakon: "I know I'm supposed to be king, but this is the best way for me to serve my people." "I f'd up and tore this country apart. Let me redeem myself. "You don't even deserve to be here." "Grow up, boy." "Shut up both of you!" In a moment of insanity the Warden cuts them both down and then kills the Archdemon (and him/herself, since deciding not to do the DR).
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Post by fylimar on Apr 14, 2017 10:39:40 GMT
The Landsmeet is very silly. The compromise that Riordan proposes is a fair one, and would satisfy the needs of justice. Its been established that regardless of Loghian's crimes, he was only doing it all for the good of the nation. That doesn't excuse his actions, and being made into a Warden is still a death sentence. Alistair's objections are understandable from an emotional standpoint, but clearly out of line. You, Anora and Eamon can have engaged in serious political wrangling to get a compromise that everyone can live with, you have just fought a battle of words in the Landsmeet to convince the Banns that the Wardens are not political opportunists, Orlesian puppers and tyrants in waiting. If Alistair's first action as King is to execute a man who has surrendered, how does that look?! Especially as he then goes on to seize lands and give them over to the administration of the Wardens, whose members typically frown on such things (Riordan expresses disdain for Wardens who do such things, and Duncan is clearly against such practices too). Nobody really wants to lose Alistair and the game doesn't really feel right if you lose him, but his stance here was so unreasonable. And the 'chop Loghain's head off in public, so his blood spalshes over his daughter's face' is so barbaric that it feels like you've stumbled into 'I, Claudius'. All this is basically the reason I decided Alistair would not make much of a king. As you say, you, Anora and Eamon sit there wrangling out a compromise that will allow you to pull Fereldan together and deal with the Blight, whilst Alistair just stands by taking no real part in it. Then he throws it aside, and abandons the order he claims to care about so much. Not to mention: "I don't want to be king" "I REALLY don't want to be king" "OK, fine, but I won't like it" "GIMME THE CROWN SO I CAN MURDER THIS GUY IN FRONT OF HIS DAUGHTER!" Is probably not the best answer to "So why do you feel you would be good for this role as the King of Fereldan?" At the end of the day, it's a bad decision, and I think the game treats it as such - after all, if Alistair abandons both the Grey Wardens AND Fereldan (by refusing to work with Loghain or marry Anora/ take the throne himself) he can either end up dead or as a bitter drunk lurking in a Kirkwall tavern, and Loghain's death isn't exactly played as "Yeah, sweet righteous justic has been done" - as you say, it's pretty barbaric. I think it's interesting from a character perspective, because up to this point, Alistair has certainly been towards the "Paragon" end of the scale (if you will ) amongst your companions - compared to Morrigan who is often ruthlessly pragmatic and hard, compared to Sten and Leliana and Zevran who have all done some pretty dark stuff in their pasts, Alistair is a pleasant - if somewhat indecisive and often passive aggressive - guy whose big dark secrets are more related to who he is than what he has done in the past. You could argue that he hasn't really been tested up to this point, that the Landsmeet is where you get to see what Alistair is made of, and he messes up. I guess it depends on the player and the character how that choice can end up - whether they support Alistair in his decision, whether they sympathise but choose the greater good or whether they think "Good Riddance!" and use it as an excuse to get shot of him. Depending on how you're thinking of it in your head, if Alistair has disagreed with a lot of your decisions in the rest of the game, you could play it as sparing Loghain being the straw that breaks the camel's back, and Alistair's reaction being partly to do with the previous actions of HoF bringing disgrace to the Grey Wardens. That rather depends on your having had that sort of playthrough, though. That's exactly my problem with Alistair too. When I first played DAO (with a Dalish rogue), I instantly liked Alistair, he quickly became my wardens best friend (although she romanced Zevran, ALi was more like the big brother, she never had). And then came the Landsmeet and my young, politically inexperienced Dalish girl listened to Riordan and let Lghain live. And Alistair suddendly went all stompy and childish. So my warden made Anore queen and got Alistair exiled. That was just a stupid move of him, with Loghain the wardens would have had a meat shild who will threw himself at the archdemon, so his death is just delayed and might even be more painful than getting his head cut off ( a pretty quick death if done right, I guess). I really get that Alistair still hurts from loosing Duncan, but Duncan himself would have recruited Loghain fo sure. And him going away without caring what happens to Ferelden was a dick move. I would have been ok, if he had quit the group but promised to be there when the wardens are needed, so we'll encounter him doing his job in the last battle and leaving again afterwards. I just think abandon his warden duty is out of character. He can break the friendship or romance with the warden and even swear revenge on them -all fine with me, but he should have been at the last battle among the other fighters. It would have been enough to show him in one cutscene, 'quietly killing his share of Darkspawn' (to quote Blackwall).
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Norstaera
N3
Stealth Swooper
This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Norstaera on Apr 14, 2017 13:58:09 GMT
I'm an unabashed Alistair lover, but I do have a lot of problems with the Landsmeet. That said, an unhardened Alistair does run away and my man totally disappointed me. A hardened Alistair leaves the group but is trying to bring more Grey Wardens in to help. He doesn't abandon the Order or Ferelden It's easy to say Duncan would have recruited him. I believe he probably would have but: - if Duncan lived, Loghain probably wouldn't be necessary because, presumably other Wardens would also have survived
- Duncan might have considered the precedent of using the Grey Wardens as a punishment to be bad for the Wardens in the long run. Seriously, we don't want it to become a common thing, "hang or become a Warden." And that's also letting the government/politics interfere with Grey Warden business. Diplomacy is one thing, but this could be an overreach. I understand Riordan's reasoning and Anora's desperation, but there is a downside
- What if only three Grey Wardens lived? Duncan, Alistair, and you. That means for months Duncan would have been dodging Loghain's men as well as bounty hunters and sympathizers. He might not have been inclined to let Loghain join. As objective as he might try to be, he might not consider him a good risk.
- And . . . if he had lived, by then Alistair and you would have been informed of the US and both might even agreed with Riordan.
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Doominike
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Apr 16, 2017 2:07:25 GMT
Wynne, also Oghren (who's missing from the poll btw).
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Post by Harpie Lady on Apr 18, 2017 22:25:12 GMT
Morrigan&Alistair.
Two traitors that needed to be dealt with extreme measures.
Also I loathe the DR players,immoral scum whom I don't want to ever meet IRL.
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avalion
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Post by avalion on May 7, 2017 17:35:09 GMT
I can't stand Ohgren to the point where I regretted recruiting him.
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Post by Iddy on May 22, 2017 14:02:40 GMT
Despite her reputation, Morrigan actually is very polite towards the Warden. I don't remember her ever insulting you, even if you call her a heartless shrew (you can). Meanwhile, the oh so sweet Alistair likes making fun of your character for no reason like when you ask him how did he become a GW.
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Post by Hagoromo on May 25, 2017 14:13:29 GMT
Despite her reputation, Morrigan actually is very polite towards the Warden. I don't remember her ever insulting you, even if you call her a heartless shrew (you can). Meanwhile, the oh so sweet Alistair likes making fun of your character for no reason like when you ask him how did he become a GW. Morrigan insult the warden twice when the ritual is rejected. The conversation with Alistair(which I do remember)didn't seem to me to point out Alistair insulting the warden,that's just his manner of speech,he makes jokes all the time about anything.
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Post by Iddy on May 25, 2017 14:17:05 GMT
Despite her reputation, Morrigan actually is very polite towards the Warden. I don't remember her ever insulting you, even if you call her a heartless shrew (you can). Meanwhile, the oh so sweet Alistair likes making fun of your character for no reason like when you ask him how did he become a GW. Morrigan insult the warden twice when the ritual is rejected. The conversation with Alistair(which I do remember)didn't seem to me to point out Alistair insulting the warden,that's just his manner of speech,he makes jokes all the time about anything. Morrigan insults the Warden because she is pissed, not because she enjoys mocking you. And I'd say that Alistair's amusement if the Warden reacts negatively says it all. It was what he wanted. You know what is weird, though? Alistair is completely immune to the Warden's attempts at insulting him. If you choose to call him an idiot or anything like that, he effortlessly beats you with sarcasm. But when Morrigan does it, he gets all worked up about it and even tries to prove to her that he isn't stupid.
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Post by Hagoromo on May 25, 2017 15:50:59 GMT
Morrigan insult the warden twice when the ritual is rejected. The conversation with Alistair(which I do remember)didn't seem to me to point out Alistair insulting the warden,that's just his manner of speech,he makes jokes all the time about anything. Morrigan insults the Warden because she is pissed, not because she enjoys mocking you. And I'd say that Alistair's amusement if the Warden reacts negatively says it all. It was what he wanted. You know what is weird, though? Alistair is completely immune to the Warden's attempts at insulting him. If you choose to call him an idiot or anything like that, he effortlessly beats you with sarcasm. But when Morrigan does it, he gets all worked up about it and even tries to prove to her that he isn't stupid. Regardless of what her motivations were that doesn't change the end result which are the insults,over something she had purposely hidden up until that moment. Also given some dialogues she mocks the Warden in WH as well. Alistair's jokes never had that tone of seriousness within them,he does those jokes only with a Warden with a good approval and if certain dialogues are taken or else he will not adopt that tone with the Warden.Also he is not immune to anything he can be insulted over Duncan and plenty of other things of whom he cares about and he takes it with anger not with sarcasm.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on May 25, 2017 16:07:45 GMT
Despite her reputation, Morrigan actually is very polite towards the Warden. I don't remember her ever insulting you, even if you call her a heartless shrew (you can). Meanwhile, the oh so sweet Alistair likes making fun of your character for no reason like when you ask him how did he become a GW. What do you mean with the word insult? It's seem to me you are defining Alistair jokes as insults,I find them annoying but I don't think they are insults they are just jokes. But how is that Morrigan never insults the Warden? She doesn't care of agreeing with Caladrius to kill the city elves. A Warden of that Origin is justified to consider her words as an insult. Same with the Circle of mages if warden is a mage and cares for them, and she wants to kill them all there. Same with the Anvil if Warden is a commoner dwarf with friends in the dust town and she would like to see them all sacrificed for it. Basically I see al these things as to be by far more serious than the Alsitair's jokes.
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kalasaurus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kalasaurus on May 26, 2017 8:50:21 GMT
I would vote for Oghren, but I picked Dog only because before I played on PC I couldn't make him stop barking at the camp with a mod.
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ENGINEER_H4RR7
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Can't keep up with all the DLC prices for XBOX GWG!!!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ENGINEER_H4RR7 on Jun 10, 2017 1:21:23 GMT
Sten, because for bad ass qunari mercenary that specializes in 2 hands, he is the first to go down in every battle. Also, Oghren, but i do enjoy his drunken demeanor.
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gplayer
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I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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Post by gplayer on Jun 14, 2017 7:45:05 GMT
So I am not a fan of Alistair, but I do still want him on the team. Which is great because he is the only one you can't kick from the party.
For the most disliked is also the one I almost never recruit (except once or twice): Zevran. After defeat his trap and realize he is not quite finished yet I will finish him off. In some playthroughs I will question him to find out Loghain hired him and then murder knife him. The reaction of some of my party is amusing. I mean really Sten? That guy was trying to kill us moments earlier and you're horrified I finished him off? It felt so unnatural having him join my team.
I can't stand Wynne either. Though her fate varies in my playthroughs: 1. She survives the events of the circle but told she can't join my team. 2. She joins the team but dies during Sacred Ashes 3. She dies in the bottom floor of the tower 4. She dies in the top floor, after the conversation with Cullen, but only if I have my Mabari with me.
Morrigan is really key to my tactics setup, but I think I will try a playthrough where I ask her to leave after Lothering. Will be interesting.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 16, 2017 9:50:34 GMT
I like all of them, for many different reasons. Love hardening options for Alistair and Leliana; you can see difference in their behaviour right after. Sten was bit odd for me at the beginning, but after Improved Atmosphere mod and after changing his appearance to look like proper Qunari in DA2, he become one of my favourites. Morrigan on the top ? Wow. I love Morrigan for her VA. Claudia Black did amazing job. I know Morrigan is a real b... but I've found hard to hate her.
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Post by Prince on Jun 21, 2017 2:29:15 GMT
I'm surprised that Sten is one of the tops,it's kinda hard to "hate" a machine. Morrigan deserve to be on the top,the day she will realize to not mess with DA protagonists (Marquis,HoF,Inquisitor) and to not randomly hate people which she doesn't even know is the day she will be spared a lot of troubles.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 21, 2017 9:06:54 GMT
I'm surprised that Sten is one of the tops,it's kinda hard to "hate" a machine. Morrigan deserve to be on the top,the day she will realize to not mess with DA protagonists (Marquis,HoF,Inquisitor) and to not randomly hate people which she doesn't even know is the day she will be spared a lot of troubles. It is so good for you that you are absolutely certain of what people deserve. Who deserves hatred, who deserves love, who deserves mercy and who deserves death. You are a god! I guess you know what's good for people. Even if they don't want it...
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Post by Prince on Jun 21, 2017 10:35:44 GMT
It is so good for you that you are absolutely certain of what people deserve. Who deserves hatred, who deserves love, who deserves mercy and who deserves death. You are a god! I guess you know what's good for people. Even if they don't want it... I don't know what is good for people that I don't know but I do know what is good for Morrigan when she disobey orders like when she did it at the Marquis.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 22, 2017 19:57:55 GMT
Dog, actually. Seems a waste. And I like dogs.
I also take some issue with the 'Warriors/Physicals' (Alistair/Loghain, Sten, Oghren, Dog, Shale) because there's too many imo. Sure you can avoid Dog, Shale is optional DLC, but I get annoyed that there's only two mages and two rogues.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 15:48:27 GMT
Is Oghren a companion in DA:O? I thought he was? Or just in Awakening? Can't remember off-hand.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jun 23, 2017 16:01:08 GMT
Is Oghren a companion in DA:O? I thought he was? Or just in Awakening? Can't remember off-hand. Both in DAO and DAI. You can recruit him in Orzammar and in Vigil's Keep.
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