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Post by vertigomez on Jan 25, 2017 12:01:45 GMT
Are Charter and Tessa considered canon? Dagna and Sera? Sera and Dagna just baffle me, as they never interacted in the game proper. I'm surprised this particular ship doesn't get more hate, since Sera was able to put aside her prejudice of magic for Dagna, when she wouldn't for a Pro-Dalish Lavellan, or other Inquisitors who drank from the Well of Sorrows.
Well, if it works, good for them. If it's just a fling, a small part of me hopes Dagna is our Mad Scientist Companion in DA4. Seriously, can you imagine Dagna in Tevinter ?
Sera has a banter with Dorian where she explains that she's not scared of magic from a bottle (her Tempest alchemy), because if she fudges it up, she's the only one responsible, and she's not going to bust out in demons because of it. Dagna's "magic" is basically magic in a bottle. It's self-contained and doesn't involve creepy Fade business or abominations. I agree that Dagna in Tevinter would be adorable! Are Charter and Tessa considered canon? Dagna and Sera? Back on topic: aren't Harding's parents alive and well? I was just thinking, if she winds up being a companion in DA4 then I fear for their safety... We can't know about Charter/Tessa unless they appear in future games. That is my primary bar, to be honest. Or at least whether the content is mentioned in future games. Cassandra directly references the events of her anime movie in DAI, therefore it is canon. Varric directly references meeting the new Arishok, aka DAO's Sten, therefore that is canon insofar as it can be considering Alistair's involvement, who could very well be dead. Cole directly mentions events in Asunder, therefore that is canon insofar as it can be considering both Wynne and Shale's involvement, both of whom could be dead. If either of them show up in DA4, and they are a LI, then it apparently was not canon. Or I suppose you could consider that they broke up off screen. If either show up in DA4, but are not a LI, then you could say it is canon and just never addressed in the game (or it might be, if they are both featured, who knows?) I think different people will look at optional romances like Sera/Dagna or Dorian/Bull in different ways. Whether they get together is conditional on player action. Sera/Dagna is canon for my plays, and I think the pairing is cute. Dorian/Bull is not since I romance Dorian and don't recruit Bull. I see what you mean. I guess they're close enough for me - I tend to take non-game media at face value unless/until it's contradicted by something in-game. And I consider Sera/Dagna to be a more-or-less canon lesbian pairing in the wider world of Thedas because for a lot of people (most) it is, even though I usually romance Sera and it doesn't happen at all. Knowing that it would have happened if the Inquisitor hadn't swooped in and stolen Sera's heart is enough for me.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 25, 2017 12:26:05 GMT
As for Weekes' heart being in the first place, I don't know about what. I question a lot of things he did. Giving us another unhealthy, abusive lesbian relationship doesn't help matters, and I'm not fond of how one-dimensional approach to the Dalish, which is at odds with his three-dimensional depiction of racists like Celene, Gaspard, and Michel. How is Michel a racist? It's been years since I read the novel, so I honestly don't remember any specific things. Now, I'm not saying that people of whatever race can't be racist toward themselves, but remember that he is half-elf himself, and tried to hide it because of society (and the consequences were evident on being discovered). I think the issue for him is a bit more nuanced than just the standard "I think those knife ears are inferior" racists. He successfully passed because that is what he had to do.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 25, 2017 13:34:06 GMT
IIRC Michel was violently racist. I don't have the book on hand right now or I'd quote him, but I remember prolific use of the term "knife ear" and having nooo qualms about murdering alienage elves.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 25, 2017 15:12:58 GMT
As TME is part of the canon, I don't see how it'll ever be a healthy relationship. I have no problem supporting Briala to the throne - the Epilogue does out of it's way to address that she's actually making reforms that the elves are benefiting from, which isn't the case if she's Celene's lover again. As for Weekes' heart being in the first place, I don't know about what. I question a lot of things he did. Giving us another unhealthy, abusive lesbian relationship doesn't help matters, and I'm not fond of how one-dimensional approach to the Dalish, which is at odds with his three-dimensional depiction of racists like Celene, Gaspard, and Michel. That it's not mentioned doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As for healthiness... well, it wouldn't be easy, but I can see it working. A vitally important component to this would be honesty and remorse on Celene's part, which I think can exist... they just wouldn't be waved around in front of the Inquisitor.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 25, 2017 23:36:33 GMT
As TME is part of the canon, I don't see how it'll ever be a healthy relationship. I have no problem supporting Briala to the throne - the Epilogue does out of it's way to address that she's actually making reforms that the elves are benefiting from, which isn't the case if she's Celene's lover again. As for Weekes' heart being in the first place, I don't know about what. I question a lot of things he did. Giving us another unhealthy, abusive lesbian relationship doesn't help matters, and I'm not fond of how one-dimensional approach to the Dalish, which is at odds with his three-dimensional depiction of racists like Celene, Gaspard, and Michel. That it's not mentioned doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If it's specifically mentioned when Briala becomes the shadow ruler of Orlais, and it's specifically omitted when Celene rules, then it's obvious that it only happens if you support Briala to the throne. In fact, Celene's characterization makes it clear that she's willing to toss aside the elves if it means maintaining her power base, which is exactly the reason why Briala turned against her when she realized Celene would never honor any agreement to help the elves. Don't you remember? At the conclusion of TME. As for healthiness... well, it wouldn't be easy, but I can see it working. A vitally important component to this would be honesty and remorse on Celene's part, which I think can exist... they just wouldn't be waved around in front of the Inquisitor. I don't see how Briala's relationship with a woman who murdered her parents and burned down an entire city of elves because Celene thought her power base might be marginally weakened could ever be healthy. There are plenty of women out there whom Briala can be romantically involved with who haven't murdered innocent people or committed acts of genocide.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 26, 2017 0:08:59 GMT
That it's not mentioned doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If it's specifically mentioned when Briala becomes the shadow ruler of Orlais, and it's specifically omitted when Celene rules, then it's obvious that it only happens if you support Briala to the throne. In fact, Celene's characterization makes it clear that she's willing to toss aside the elves if it means maintaining her power base, which is exactly the reason why Briala turned against her when she realized Celene would never honor any agreement to help the elves. Don't you remember? At the conclusion of TME. No such thing is obvious; it's fairly clear that it'd be blatantly OOC of Briala to return to this relationship if Celene wasn't going to make amends. More elven rights just exist as part of Celene's total package instead of the single main policy of Briala-as-ruler, and Celene's likely better at avoiding unrest from the implementation of said policies. As for healthiness... well, it wouldn't be easy, but I can see it working. A vitally important component to this would be honesty and remorse on Celene's part, which I think can exist... they just wouldn't be waved around in front of the Inquisitor. I don't see how Briala's relationship with a woman who murdered her parents and burned down an entire city of elves because Celene thought her power base might be marginally weakened could ever be healthy. There are plenty of women out there whom Briala can be romantically involved with who haven't murdered innocent people or committed acts of genocide. You don't have to forget sins to forgive them. I'm not saying it'd be easy, or at all morally required, but I am saying that it's possible.]/i]
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Post by Artemis on Jan 26, 2017 0:29:58 GMT
Are Charter and Tessa considered canon? Dagna and Sera? Didn't know about Charter/Tessa and forgot about Dagna/Sera!! :-o I'm not a fan of the (second) pairing but obviously there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, it's a positive f/f relationship. Dragon Age definitely needs more! More random s/s couples in general, average villagers, townsfolk, soldiers, etc. A little eyeroll-inducing that the only NPC m/m romance in DAI is the couple at the Winter Palace; homophobic gamer bros can brush that off as "yeah of course the gay dudes would be froo-froo French-sounding royals."
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Post by Artemis on Jan 26, 2017 0:32:55 GMT
IIRC Michel was violently racist. I don't have the book on hand right now or I'd quote him, but I remember prolific use of the term "knife ear" and having nooo qualms about murdering alienage elves. That's kind of why I hated TME. Everyone was just awful. Even the characters you wanted to like. They were all just terrible people. Not my kind of story
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 26, 2017 0:34:49 GMT
If it's specifically mentioned when Briala becomes the shadow ruler of Orlais, and it's specifically omitted when Celene rules, then it's obvious that it only happens if you support Briala to the throne. In fact, Celene's characterization makes it clear that she's willing to toss aside the elves if it means maintaining her power base, which is exactly the reason why Briala turned against her when she realized Celene would never honor any agreement to help the elves. Don't you remember? At the conclusion of TME. No such thing is obvious; it's fairly clear that it'd be blatantly OOC of Briala to return to this relationship if Celene wasn't going to make amends. More elven rights just exist as part of Celene's total package instead of the single main policy of Briala-as-ruler, and Celene's likely better at avoiding unrest from the implementation of said policies. Considering that Briala was in an unhealthy relationship to begin with, it's not really OOC; she wouldn't be the first person to go back to a toxic lover. Also, if there's absolutely no mention of any elven progress with Celene sitting on the throne, then I don't see why you'd reach that conclusion. I don't see how Briala's relationship with a woman who murdered her parents and burned down an entire city of elves because Celene thought her power base might be marginally weakened could ever be healthy. There are plenty of women out there whom Briala can be romantically involved with who haven't murdered innocent people or committed acts of genocide. You don't have to forget sins to forgive them. I'm not saying it'd be easy, or at all morally required, but I am saying that it's possible.I just think Celene has crossed the line to such an extent that she deserves no such consideration.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 26, 2017 0:41:01 GMT
No such thing is obvious; it's fairly clear that it'd be blatantly OOC of Briala to return to this relationship if Celene wasn't going to make amends. More elven rights just exist as part of Celene's total package instead of the single main policy of Briala-as-ruler, and Celene's likely better at avoiding unrest from the implementation of said policies. Considering that Briala was in an unhealthy relationship to begin with, it's not really OOC; she wouldn't be the first person to go back to a toxic lover. Also, if there's absolutely no mention of any elven progress with Celene sitting on the throne, then I don't see why you'd reach that conclusion. You don't have to forget sins to forgive them. I'm not saying it'd be easy, or at all morally required, but I am saying that it's possible.I just think Celene has crossed the line to such an extent that she deserves no such consideration. I don't think that Briala would stay with Celene if there was no progress being made. And I wouldn't say that Celene deserves it, it's just an outcome I prefer.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 26, 2017 1:21:58 GMT
Considering that Briala was in an unhealthy relationship to begin with, it's not really OOC; she wouldn't be the first person to go back to a toxic lover. Also, if there's absolutely no mention of any elven progress with Celene sitting on the throne, then I don't see why you'd reach that conclusion. I just think Celene has crossed the line to such an extent that she deserves no such consideration. I don't think that Briala would stay with Celene if there was no progress being made. And I wouldn't say that Celene deserves it, it's just an outcome I prefer. It's possible there's some very, very minor progress (in comparison to what Briala accomplishes as the true ruler of Orlais), but don't the elves deserve better? Don't the Andrastian elves of Orlais and the Dales deserves more?
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 26, 2017 1:41:30 GMT
I don't think that Briala would stay with Celene if there was no progress being made. And I wouldn't say that Celene deserves it, it's just an outcome I prefer. It's possible there's some very, very minor progress (in comparison to what Briala accomplishes as the true ruler of Orlais), but don't the elves deserve better? Don't the Andrastian elves of Orlais and the Dales deserves more? Yes (although saying that it's notably less progress than Briala's puppet regime is completely baseless), but the question arises of what exactly becomes of Briala's regime once Gaspard dies (if he doesn't manage to throw her off). The entire thing is a house of cards. I have no inherent objection to radical change, but one way seems to be a much more stable way of keeping the architect of such in power than the other; also, with Celene, the entire process can be conducted honestly, instead of being based on deception, which I think makes it more resilient in the long run.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 26, 2017 3:26:02 GMT
It's possible there's some very, very minor progress (in comparison to what Briala accomplishes as the true ruler of Orlais), but don't the elves deserve better? Don't the Andrastian elves of Orlais and the Dales deserves more? Yes (although saying that it's notably less progress than Briala's puppet regime is completely baseless), but the question arises of what exactly becomes of Briala's regime once Gaspard dies (if he doesn't manage to throw her off). The entire thing is a house of cards. I have no inherent objection to radical change, but one way seems to be a much more stable way of keeping the architect of such in power than the other; also, with Celene, the entire process can be conducted honestly, instead of being based on deception, which I think makes it more resilient in the long run. If Briala becoming the shadow ruler of Orlais leads to the Epilogue acknowledging that elves are getting freedoms and rights, while Celene staying ruler doesn't read any such thing, how is it baseless? As for your latter comments, I suppose that depends on whether you think Celene will actually bother to make any real efforts to help the elves who suffer from the status quo. And if that was the case, I honestly have to wonder why the developers chose to specifically omit such this from the Epilogue.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 26, 2017 3:33:21 GMT
Yes (although saying that it's notably less progress than Briala's puppet regime is completely baseless), but the question arises of what exactly becomes of Briala's regime once Gaspard dies (if he doesn't manage to throw her off). The entire thing is a house of cards. I have no inherent objection to radical change, but one way seems to be a much more stable way of keeping the architect of such in power than the other; also, with Celene, the entire process can be conducted honestly, instead of being based on deception, which I think makes it more resilient in the long run. If Briala becoming the shadow ruler of Orlais leads to the Epilogue acknowledging that elves are getting freedoms and rights, while Celene staying ruler doesn't read any such thing, how is it baseless? As for your latter comments, I suppose that depends on whether you think Celene will actually bother to make any real efforts to help the elves who suffer from the status quo. And if that was the case, I honestly have to wonder why the developers chose to specifically omit such this from the Epilogue. Maybe appeasement for people who hate Celene. In the end, I don't see Briala actually staying with a version of Celene who doesn't, and I think that claiming that is the case is an attack on Briala.
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 26, 2017 7:28:12 GMT
Considering that Briala was in an unhealthy relationship to begin with, it's not really OOC; she wouldn't be the first person to go back to a toxic lover. Also, if there's absolutely no mention of any elven progress with Celene sitting on the throne, then I don't see why you'd reach that conclusion. I just think Celene has crossed the line to such an extent that she deserves no such consideration. I don't think that Briala would stay with Celene if there was no progress being made. And I wouldn't say that Celene deserves it, it's just an outcome I prefer. I'm sure all those murdered Elves and their surviving families are quite happy to be denied justice so that Briala can go back to her psychological and emotional abuser .
All of the sudden I'm getting One More Day flashbacks:
Joe Quesada wanted a young and single Peter Parker, so he ignored all of the characters' personalities and internal logic to make it happen.
Xilizhra wants Celene and Briala back together, so she ignores all of the characters' personalities and internal logic to justify it.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 26, 2017 14:44:54 GMT
I don't think that Briala would stay with Celene if there was no progress being made. And I wouldn't say that Celene deserves it, it's just an outcome I prefer. I'm sure all those murdered Elves and their surviving families are quite happy to be denied justice so that Briala can go back to her psychological and emotional abuser .
All of the sudden I'm getting One More Day flashbacks:
Joe Quesada wanted a young and single Peter Parker, so he ignored all of the characters' personalities and internal logic to make it happen.
Xilizhra wants Celene and Briala back together, so she ignores all of the characters' personalities and internal logic to justify it.
Well, both Celene and Gaspard have committed atrocities, but we can only kill one of them. And I'm not the one who wrote that part of the game (though I did demand that it exist on Twitter before it came out).
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 26, 2017 19:13:09 GMT
Going back a bit, since this didn't occur to me at the time : None of the issues of power, race and betrayal had anything to do with Celene and Briala being lesbians. Patrick Weekes could have easily made either of them male and The Masked Empire would have been the exact same story. Had that been the case, no one would seriously want them back together. So is having a prominent lesbian power couple really the only reason you are so adamant they reconcile? Also, aside from lazy retcons*, is your solution to Bioware's bad portrayals of same sex relationships to just do a 180 in the opposite extreme? To avoid even the slight hint of homophobia, LBGTQ characters must no longer be actual people, but (in your eyes) paragons of perfect moral virtue? Stripped of any flaws that make them believable, three dimensional characters? Surely there has to be a better way... *Personally, I consider retcons one of the most boring, unimaginative cop outs any writer can take. Even if you've written yourself into a corner, work with what you have and move forward, or end it.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 26, 2017 19:52:02 GMT
When Briala confronted her Empress over the murder of over 3,000 Elves in Halamshiral, Celene used the old I Did What I Had To excuse, and even tried to make Briala feel guilty for daring to question her! I actually agreed with Celene on that front. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for Halamshiral's foolish, doomed revolution. Even reading the book, I was smacking my head at their damned stupidity, knowing that it would end in a bloodbath. I actually have more anger towards Gaspard for forcing her hand.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 26, 2017 20:03:06 GMT
To be honest none of the outcomes for the ruler of Orlais are ideal and none of them deserved it. People seem to forget that just because they didn't say the things she liked, Briala was quite happy to let an entire clan of Dalish elves be ripped apart by a demon and yet in fact, despite being depicted as the most racist Dalish imaginable, they did in fact save Michel, Celene and Briala from the silvans. Celene lied to Briala about their intention to kill her and Felassan allowed Michel to do the one thing that would release the demon when he could have prevented it, because of course, like his boss Fen'Harel, he was always working to his own agenda. Remember that Briala claimed the eluvians for the "elves of Orlais", apparently ignoring the elves of Ferelden, Freemarches, Nevarra, Antiva, Rivain and Tevinter whether they are Dalish or not. She had also talked herself into forgiving Celene for the massacre of Halamshiral because it was simply politics and her right as Empress and had pretty much resumed her relationship with Celene during their trek through the eluvian network. It was only when she realised who had given Celene her magical ring and why that she decided to go it alone, with the support and encouragement of Felassan. Which is why it struck me as odd that she would be willing to truly forgive and forget where Celene was concerned because the thing that finally broke her loyalty was the realisation that Celene had ordered the murder of her parents and that she would always put political expediency above anything else.
As for Michel the quote I think you are looking for is "I would sooner put down a few hundred knife ears than allow Gaspard to endanger the lives of men." He is talking to Celene at the time and overcompensating for his guilty awareness that he is the son of a "knife ear", but the entire Orlesian Court is racist and the Chevaliers in particular, considering how they train their recruits by using elves for target practice, so really he has simply truly converted the thinking of the nobility he is impersonating.
The whole reason for the rebellion in Halamshiral in the first place is that a noble in Orlais can literally get away with murder provided that it is an elf (or possibly a lowly human peasant). The same is true of the Chevalier order. Also there is the fact that the Orlesian nobility believe they rule by Divine Right and this gives them licence to behave as they do and as far as they are concerned, if anyone rebels against their rule, it is an offence against the Maker and therefore any action they take is totally justified. Let us not forget it was actually Justinia that effectively ordered Celene to take action against the elves.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 26, 2017 23:29:17 GMT
Yeah, they're all assholes. I just find Briala/Celene to be the least objectionable combination of assholes.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 27, 2017 2:24:46 GMT
To be honest none of the outcomes for the ruler of Orlais are ideal and none of them deserved it. I don't think there should be one best solution. It's about roleplay for the character and the player deciding what choice best fits in with that roleplay. The character takes the information that is presented to them and makes a decision based on whatever reason. I personally like the triad, even if it is one of the more unstable outcomes, because of how it reflects my Inquisitor's roleplay. And I'll admit that I quite like the scene where you can put all three in their place and give a little lecture. He does have reservations about his decision later on, but the ship has sailed at that point.
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 3:26:40 GMT
None of the issues of power, race and betrayal had anything to do with Celene and Briala being lesbians. Patrick Weekes could have easily made either of them male and The Masked Empire would have been the exact same story. Had that been the case, no one would seriously want them back together. So is having a prominent lesbian power couple really the only reason you are so adamant they reconcile? Yes, well, he didn't, so that's the world in which we live. And I'm sure as hell not letting them be nothing but a cautionary tale. Also, aside from lazy retcons*, is your solution to Bioware's bad portrayals of same sex relationships to just do a 180 in the opposite extreme? To avoid even the slight hint of homophobia, LBGTQ characters must no longer be actual people, but (in your eyes) paragons of perfect moral virtue? Stripped of any flaws that make them believable, three dimensional characters? Surely there has to be a better way... *Personally, I consider retcons one of the most boring, unimaginative cop outs any writer can take. Even if you've written yourself into a corner, work with what you have and move forward, or end it. Only if you're one of those people who thinks that Leliana is an overly perfect Mary Sue. However, I will protest against tragic/treacherous relationship outcomes until the balance is redressed.
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 27, 2017 20:30:47 GMT
None of the issues of power, race and betrayal had anything to do with Celene and Briala being lesbians. Patrick Weekes could have easily made either of them male and The Masked Empire would have been the exact same story. Had that been the case, no one would seriously want them back together. So is having a prominent lesbian power couple really the only reason you are so adamant they reconcile? Yes, well, he didn't, so that's the world in which we live. And I'm sure as hell not letting them be nothing but a cautionary tale. Also, aside from lazy retcons*, is your solution to Bioware's bad portrayals of same sex relationships to just do a 180 in the opposite extreme? To avoid even the slight hint of homophobia, LBGTQ characters must no longer be actual people, but (in your eyes) paragons of perfect moral virtue? Stripped of any flaws that make them believable, three dimensional characters? Surely there has to be a better way... *Personally, I consider retcons one of the most boring, unimaginative cop outs any writer can take. Even if you've written yourself into a corner, work with what you have and move forward, or end it. Only if you're one of those people who thinks that Leliana is an overly perfect Mary Sue. However, I will protest against tragic/treacherous relationship outcomes until the balance is redressed. Oh the irony... Briala returning to Celene is exactly tragic and treasonous; Celene gets away scot free with mass murdering citizens she had sworn to protect, and Briala betrays the Elves she claimed to fight for in denying them justice. Try, just try putting yourself in their shoes: all of your family and friends are dead, your home and everything you own destroyed, and all the perpetrators beyond your reach. Later, you receive a small sliver of hope upon hearing rumors of an Elven leader who has the resources and will to fight for you. Then, right on the cusp of reckoning, your hero tells you, "Everything's alright. I have forgiven her." Seriously, you would be fine with someone you trusted completely disregarding your feelings and rights, shielding those who wronged you, just so that they could be happy? If Briala wants to throw away all self respect, ignore all the things Celene has done and likely will continue to do to her, and piss on her parents' memory, that's her choice. It's stupid and insane, but it's her life. But she had NO RIGHT to forgive Celene on the other Elves behalf. They deserved justice, and she deserted them. What's that you say? "Briala can still persuade Celene to help the Elves in the future". Right, because that went soo well before . It wouldn't be the first time someone has tried to rationalize Elven genocide being For the Greater Good. And now no thanks to Briala's treachery, it sure as hell won't be the last. On the other point; so from here on out, every single LBGTQ character has Plot Armor? We are going to Tevinter after all. Not a single one of them has lost lovers to conflicting alliances, political assassinations, slavers, terrorist uprisings, mages throwing a tantrum, demons, the war with the Qunari, or just generally being in the wrong place at the wrong time? They all somehow warp reality to become immune to living in one of the most chaotic, cutthroat nations in all of Thedas? None of them had a bad break up over conflicting life goals and/or personality temperaments? They are all completely well adjusted, issue free, and boring? Lastly, if you don't like a story, you are well within your rights to voice your displeasure and take your money elsewhere. But to actively expect to dictate an artist's vision? I'm sorry, but no. Art is not a democracy. If you truly have such little faith in Bioware's writers, why are you still supporting their product? If you truly have such a specific criteria a story must have before it meets your approval, why not just stick to fan fiction? Or better yet, create your own franchise? Look, I won't lie, there's been plenty of times I've said, "they could've done this or should've done that". But for me, that's just for fun. There comes a point when you have to ask yourself, "is the joy this story gives me worth all the frustration as well?"
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Post by xilizhra on Jan 27, 2017 20:45:22 GMT
Oh the irony... Briala returning to Celene is exactly tragic and treasonous; Celene gets away scot free with mass murdering citizens she had sworn to protect, and Briala betrays the Elves she claimed to fight for in denying them justice. Try, just try putting yourself in their shoes: all of your family and friends are dead, your home and everything you own destroyed, and all the perpetrators beyond your reach. Later, you receive a small sliver of hope upon hearing rumors of an Elven leader who has the resources and will to fight for you. Then, right on the cusp of reckoning, your hero tells you, "Everything's alright. I have forgiven her." Seriously, you would be fine with someone you trusted completely disregarding your feelings and rights, shielding those who wronged you, just so that they could be happy? If Briala wants to throw away all self respect, ignore all the things Celene has done and likely will continue to do to her, and piss on her parents' memory, that's her choice. It's stupid and insane, but it's her life. But she had NO RIGHT to forgive Celene on the other Elves behalf. They deserved justice, and she deserted them. What's that you say? "Briala can still persuade Celene to help the Elves in the future". Right, because that went soo well before . It wouldn't be the first time someone has tried to rationalize Elven genocide being For the Greater Good. And now no thanks to Briala's treachery, it sure as hell won't be the last. Briala can only assume power if the Inquisitor allows Celene to be assassinated; if the Inquisitor doesn't, going back to Celene is by far the best option for Briala, politically speaking and for the elves as a whole. On the other point; so from here on out, every single LBGTQ character has Plot Armor? We are going to Tevinter after all. Not a single one of them has lost lovers to conflicting alliances, political assassinations, slavers, terrorist uprisings, mages throwing a tantrum, demons, the war with the Qunari, or just generally being in the wrong place at the wrong time? They all somehow warp reality to become immune to living in one of the most chaotic, cutthroat nations in all of Thedas? None of them had a bad break up over conflicting life goals and/or personality temperaments? They are all completely well adjusted, issue free, and boring? Lastly, if you don't like a story, you are well within your rights to voice your displeasure and take your money elsewhere. But to actively expect to dictate an artist's vision? I'm sorry, but no. Art is not a democracy. If you truly have such little faith in Bioware's writers, why are you still supporting their product? If you truly have such a specific criteria a story must have before it meets your approval, why not just stick to fan fiction? Or better yet, create your own franchise? Look, I won't lie, there's been plenty of times I've said, "they could've done this or should've done that". But for me, that's just for fun. There comes a point when you have to ask yourself, "is the joy this story gives me worth all the frustration as well?" Tragic backstories are different from tragic presents; it's the latter I'm opposed to. Also, I do like DAI in this regard, and I never gave Bioware money for TME, so I think I've already fulfilled your requirements.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Feb 20, 2017 22:07:11 GMT
Yeah, they're all assholes. I just find Briala/Celene to be the least objectionable combination of assholes. In their defense, Orlais isn't exactly a place that breeds nice people. It's pretty much Westeros with French accents.
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